Please tell me have I misjudged this?

[Flowerofthefen]

My 2 are on DiY, I'm afraid your set up wouldn't suit me. I have 2 stables, 2 crewyard turnout pens, 2 fields, fantastic arena and off road hacking straight from the yard. I pay your monthly cost for 2! I like to choose my own feed, and I like the fact I can bring in or turn out as I wish. I think your set up would work for a retired horse or one who needs significant time off.

 

[TheMule]

I agree that it would be easier to include hay and feed and call it full grass livery. I’m not horses at grass really need hard feed twice a day, and that is one thing I’d worry about as an owner because of the management of that.
Assuming your facilities are good, the arena has a good surface and is well maintained, there’s ample grazing with hard standing areas to feed/ hay on and a nice feel to the place, you’ll get customers

 

[Abacus]

I would have misunderstood 'part grass livery' to mean the horses will be given some time at grass, but mostly stabled, and maybe not going out if it's raining or muddy or this or that.

What you are offering, though (having read what you are offering) sounds good.

How have you worded it in your advertisement?

That is SUCH a good point. I meant 'part' of course as in the horses are fed every day, rather than they partly have grass! I'll try a reword. Thank you

 

[Abacus]

I pay £390 a month for the same type of livery you are offering with hay and feed included. The only differences are field shelters in all the fields and a grass school only usable in the drier months but good hacking with no unavoidable road work. I would rather have an all inclusive price with no worries about extra charges for hay and feed, otherwise I would certainly be very keen on what you are offering. There has been a lot of interest here and the other liveries vary from youngsters to ridden or retired horses, from thoroughbreds to heavies and shetlands. Many liveries are DIY though at a reduced cost of £60 a week I believe which still includes hay but entails helping with all chores around the place which means much reduced labour costs for the yard owner. Our yard owner is also very nuch present and works tirelessly to improve the place, building extra shelters, making mud free areas, making sure horses are put with compatible companions and being available to sort out any emergencies. I am not sure I would be so happy about a setup without a knowledgeable person I
trust in charge and very present at all times.

I tried offering an all inclusive price with hay, and would happily do so, the one person I have so far preferred just to pay more for it in winter than a flat fee through the year. Feed is harder as they vary so much but again if I knew the requirements I would include it, I assumed people prefer to source their own feed. There are two knowledgeable people there at least 4 times per day and similarly we are always improving the place. I can't imagine having a load of DIY liveries who are also responsible for some of the chores, managing that must be tricky?

 

[The Xmas Furry]

My neighbour charges out at 350pcm for similar.
Includes morning check, feed which owners supply, (plus rug change and hay when required). Owners do evening visit or its additional charge. Use of decent arena. Parking for box plus allocated stable.
She never advertises, has 5 liveries plus her own. No poo picking unless in diet/isolation paddock.
No roadwork.
Hay is included in cost.
NW Surrey on good ground - so sparse on mud....

 

[ihatework]

My neighbour charges out at 350pcm for similar.
Includes morning check, feed which owners supply, (plus rug change and hay when required). Owners do evening visit or its additional charge. Use of decent arena. Parking for box plus allocated stable.
She never advertises, has 5 liveries plus her own. No poo picking unless in diet/isolation paddock.
No roadwork.
Hay is included in cost.
NW Surrey on good ground - so sparse on mud....

In Surrey that is an utter bargain!

 

[splashgirl45]

If I was looking for riding livery I would want my own stable so I could bring in to get ready as I wouldn’t want to just jump on straight from grass, I liked mine to have a good half hour off the grass before riding so it would only suit me for a retired horse but I still would be wary of feeding in the field and would want some sort of separation do each horse gets the right feed

 

[DeliaRides]

I'm not up to date on grass livery prices but it does feel expensive to me to be honest. We're in Cheshire and there is a shortage of livery space due to yards closing etc. but we're paying roughly that for assisted livery including stable/tack room, as much turnout as we want, and morning feed/turnout and bring in every day plus one day a week full livery.

I know I'm comparing apples with giraffes, but your charges feel like a lot for what people get. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just giving a slightly ill informed gut reaction, but others may make decisions based on little more! I guess if I was shopping for grass livery without specific health issues to be managed, I'd expect it to be quite a bit cheaper.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

In Surrey that is an utter bargain!

Absolutely, completely agree. She only charges extra for hay if they happen to be on box rest, plus extra if they don't come pm etc. V laid back yo too.
I'd thought about sending B up there for the summer as off games but hers is currently all gelding herd so wouldn't work.

Edited to add, they have allocated stable as far easier for dumping their stuff, rugs etc, plus horses can go in when weather vile if necessary.

 

[sportsmansB]

I absolutely love horses living out, and find getting somewhere with turnout so hard, that having all year out plus an arena (these things don't often go together) would be great - as long as the set up allowed for one to come in to be ridden and still see the others if they were out, and no one left alone. Lots of places charge £40 per week for a stable, another couple of £ a day for feeding / morning turnout, and then you'd be paying £25 a week for bedding and still have to go every day and have that whole stress of which horses are coming in when and who can bring them and trading favours for jobs and all that jazz.
I'd love it for a sharp competition horse who thrived on living out as places for them are so hard to find.
Given that you aren't making much anyway I'd hold off for the right people. Those with full time jobs who struggle on full DIY but can't stretch to full livery or really want the turnout.

 

[maya2008]

So £160 a month for the use of field and arena, plus £165 for harrowing the field and giving feed/hay?

What options do you have for restricted grazing? Shelter? Where do people store their feed so you can give it? Would you add supplements?

In the summer, the type of horse/pony that comfortably lives out all year wouldn’t need any feed or hay, so the owner actively wouldn’t want you to feed at all. Is that an option, and how does that work if you are feeding the other horse in the field? Given they don’t need feeding, the owner is then paying you £165 a month to harrow the field. Would seem expensive to them. Equally in winter, many horses are fine on just hay, and you cannot harrow in the wet, so they are then paying £165 extra for you to check the horse once a day if they are up to ride at the other end.

We are living in times with a high cost of living and lower disposable income, so many people would rather save money wherever they could. I don’t think £160 for hardstanding, use of field, stable in emergency/for dentist visits etc plus arena is bad. Maybe a little more to include harrowing (although you can’t harrow in winter as it’s too wet, so what do you do then?). I wouldn’t pay someone to feed and hay my horse when I could do it after riding though.

If you want full control, offer full grass livery, work out a price that includes absolutely everything, and then you do it all so owners can just come up when they want to ride and not worry about care. Or just do retirement livery?

 

[Abacus]

So £160 a month for the use of field and arena, plus £165 for harrowing the field and giving feed/hay?

What options do you have for restricted grazing? Shelter? Where do people store their feed so you can give it? Would you add supplements?

In the summer, the type of horse/pony that comfortably lives out all year wouldn’t need any feed or hay, so the owner actively wouldn’t want you to feed at all. Is that an option, and how does that work if you are feeding the other horse in the field? Given they don’t need feeding, the owner is then paying you £165 a month to harrow the field. Would seem expensive to them. Equally in winter, many horses are fine on just hay, and you cannot harrow in the wet, so they are then paying £165 extra for you to check the horse once a day if they are up to ride at the other end.

We are living in times with a high cost of living and lower disposable income, so many people would rather save money wherever they could. I don’t think £160 for hardstanding, use of field, stable in emergency/for dentist visits etc plus arena is bad. Maybe a little more to include harrowing (although you can’t harrow in winter as it’s too wet, so what do you do then?). I wouldn’t pay someone to feed and hay my horse when I could do it after riding though.

If you want full control, offer full grass livery, work out a price that includes absolutely everything, and then you do it all so owners can just come up when they want to ride and not worry about care. Or just do retirement livery?

Precisely, the numbers are:
£172 for the field and arena with jumps, obvs use of the yard, tackroom, storage. We harrow the fields (as you say, when we can), do all the maintenance, rake the arena twice weekly. They don't have to poo pick or do anything at all apart from whatever they choose with their horse. There's some admin in organising the farrier, buying in hay, etc, and I'm helpful with owners even though it's not technically part of the deal (I'd go and help with something during the day if they couldn't). I'll hack with them if they want company, and so on.

£150 to feed, give hay (when needed) and check twice per day including making up feeds. We don't give hay at the moment, they probably have it 7 or 8 months of the year, and for those months it is quite effortful especially when wet. Not feeding is an option and in that case I would usually give a handful of chaff if the horse can have it, just to be nice (I'd just give that out of mine). Not feeding isn't something I have been asked for, from previous liveries, but we'd find a way to make it work. Apart from the point I mentioned about everyone being fed together, charging for this service is the only way it can work, as I need to pay someone a reasonable amount to make it worth her coming each day (if we are full she will get £15 per session, for which she has to drive over, do the work, and drive back again).

On your point about full control: yes this is kind of what we are offering - the hay can be included in a flat fee if they want, as can feed. I wouldn't really care if the horse is retired or ridden, that's up to the owner!

We can restrict grazing. Three fields have shelter (two shelters and one natural), two are more exposed so we use them when suitable. There are two small paddocks as well which could be used for restricted turnout. There's room to store feed and I'll make up whatever feeds they want, supplements and so on.

 

[Glitter's fun]

If you are doing it to make a bit of maintenance money & the main event is your own horses I wouldn't worry whether it's what a lot of people want, I'd decide exactly what suits you & then stick to it. If that means you're not always full so be it - better that than bending to other people's requirements & ending up running about after them in ways that don't suit your own horses.

(Should say, I wouldn't want communal feeding at any price. I think that might be what's putting people off. )

 

[maya2008]

Precisely, the numbers are:
£172 for the field and arena with jumps, obvs use of the yard, tackroom, storage. We harrow the fields (as you say, when we can), do all the maintenance, rake the arena twice weekly. They don't have to poo pick or do anything at all apart from whatever they choose with their horse. There's some admin in organising the farrier, buying in hay, etc, and I'm helpful with owners even though it's not technically part of the deal (I'd go and help with something during the day if they couldn't). I'll hack with them if they want company, and so on.

£150 to feed, give hay (when needed) and check twice per day including making up feeds. We don't give hay at the moment, they probably have it 7 or 8 months of the year, and for those months it is quite effortful especially when wet. Not feeding is an option and in that case I would usually give a handful of chaff if the horse can have it, just to be nice (I'd just give that out of mine). Not feeding isn't something I have been asked for, from previous liveries, but we'd find a way to make it work. Apart from the point I mentioned about everyone being fed together, charging for this service is the only way it can work, as I need to pay someone a reasonable amount to make it worth her coming each day (if we are full she will get £15 per session, for which she has to drive over, do the work, and drive back again).

On your point about full control: yes this is kind of what we are offering - the hay can be included in a flat fee if they want, as can feed. I wouldn't really care if the horse is retired or ridden, that's up to the owner!

We can restrict grazing. Three fields have shelter (two shelters and one natural), two are more exposed so we use them when suitable. There are two small paddocks as well which could be used for restricted turnout. There's room to store feed and I'll make up whatever feeds they want, supplements and so on.

I would offer two options then - one without the arena (retirement livery) and one with, both including full care (hay, feed, holding for farrier and vet etc). You’re then attracting people who are busy with work/family and don’t have time to get up each day. Would your freelancer ride for an additional fee? Could offer this as well to busy working owners who need their horse exercised during the week and can only get up at weekends.

Retirement livery I know of in a fancy part of Bucks is £350 per month full care incl all feed/hay (but no arena obviously). Look at prices in your area and check they’re not all charging less than you. Economics dictates you either have to give a superior service to attract customers if you are charging more, or charge the same or less.

 

[ihatework]

Ultimately given it sounds like your private home and hobby that you are supplementing to suit your needs (I get it!) it has to work for you. I think you need to stick firm on what it is you are offering but do need to accept that it may have a limited market for ridden horses.

Personally I think you would be far more successful pitching this as full retirement livery including hay and token basic feed (with option for owner to upgrade feed at an additional cost).

FWIW I’m just finalising a small set up for my horses/Youngstock and will supplement with an extra 2 babies. I actually already have friends pre-booked those places with me, but it will essentially be full grass livery and they will be done my way. If owners want it differently then they will need to go elsewhere. That’s the whole point of having your own place, you get to do it your way.

 

[Abacus]

Correct in a sense that it's my private place and I'm setting it up my own way to suit the way I like my horses to live. I just thought that others might also like it! That said I do have 2 people coming to view, so maybe in time the right ones will find us. I'm very willing to consider making some changes and really appreciate all this feedback.

 

[Polos Mum]

There are lots of good observations above about why it has not been popular so far (no stable for storage / tacking up / worst of flies & rain etc.) and in field feeding wouldn't work for mine.

But - If I understand correctly you're not doing this to be a business. So you need to weigh up really what you want
1) income - in which case you need to adapt to what the local demand is - even if you disagree with them
2) company (horse or human) - in which case maybe drop the price and see if that helps
3) volume so you cover the time for the staff member you're employing
4) think you should fill the space - in which case look at charity foster maybe

What you should do next depends on what your real aim is.
IMHO most small livery yards don't cover their costs if they are properly insured and well maintained and pay all staff minimum wage.

The figures quoted here are just too small to make business sense - but if people want to do it for a lifestyle / contribution to fixed costs - there's no harm in that.

 

[MuddyMonster]

Correct in a sense that it's my private place and I'm setting it up my own way to suit the way I like my horses to live. I just thought that others might also like it! That said I do have 2 people coming to view, so maybe in time the right ones will find us. I'm very willing to consider making some changes and really appreciate all this feedback.

I honestly don't think you need to change much, if anything.

Part livery at grass for what you are charging is very reasonable. Like I said in an earlier post, I paid more for similiar 4 years ago.

It sounds like you have riding facilities and good hacking so would suit someone wanting to ride but also wants their horse to live out with regular checks etc.

I'd be there wanting a space (especially as you can restrict grazing) if you were closer!

 

[Abacus]

There are lots of good observations above about why it has not been popular so far (no stable for storage / tacking up / worst of flies & rain etc.) and in field feeding wouldn't work for mine.

But - If I understand correctly you're not doing this to be a business. So you need to weigh up really what you want
1) income - in which case you need to adapt to what the local demand is - even if you disagree with them
2) company (horse or human) - in which case maybe drop the price and see if that helps
3) volume so you cover the time for the staff member you're employing
4) think you should fill the space - in which case look at charity foster maybe

What you should do next depends on what your real aim is.
IMHO most small livery yards don't cover their costs if they are properly insured and well maintained and pay all staff minimum wage.

The figures quoted here are just too small to make business sense - but if people want to do it for a lifestyle / contribution to fixed costs - there's no harm in that.

Thank you for this. Just a point here: there are stables which people are welcome to use for tacking up, and can be used for terrible weather or overnight before shows etc. They aren't allocated per horse as there are 4 stables and 6 horses. There is plenty of storage (some in a random back stable, plus a shed plus a lockable container). I do take the point about feeding in the field and will have a think about how I can change this.

What I want to achieve is a mix of 1, 2 and 3. 1 to go towards maintenance, not an income for me. 2 would be nice (human) but not essential. 3, yes. I would expect each livery covers the cost of them being there in terms of maintenance and work, as well as the fact that by eating the grass there is less for my horses so there is an indirect cost here. But I don't expect to make money.

 

[Goldenstar]

So that is under twelve pounds a day for checking twice a day additional forage when needed access to stables for emergency .
If the yard has good fencing there’s natural shelter and the fields are not knee deep in mud half the year and the forage is not rancid, the checking is good and being done by someone who knows what and awful it’s a bargain IMO
I think you are falling between two stools .
It’s not quite what people want for a ridden horse and it’s not quite what people want for retirement livery .

 

[sjdress]

I think it’s too expensive for grass livery. I was paying £150 per month for retirement grass livery which included twice daily checks, rug changes, holding for farrier etc. Hay was about £40 extra a month when needed. That was South Oxon/Berks area. I’d love for my ridden horse to live out but this wouldn’t work for me in the winter when I wanted to ride, with no stable etc.

 

[Polos Mum]

Thank you for this. Just a point here: there are stables which people are welcome to use for tacking up, and can be used for terrible weather or overnight before shows etc. They aren't allocated per horse as there are 4 stables and 6 horses. There is plenty of storage (some in a random back stable, plus a shed plus a lockable container). I do take the point about feeding in the field and will have a think about how I can change this.

What I want to achieve is a mix of 1, 2 and 3. 1 to go towards maintenance, not an income for me. 2 would be nice (human) but not essential. 3, yes. I would expect each livery covers the cost of them being there in terms of maintenance and work, as well as the fact that by eating the grass there is less for my horses so there is an indirect cost here. But I don't expect to make money.

I guess the issue is when the weather is terrible everyone would want a stable at the same time and without one each that isn't going to work.

I'd be worried that when the mud comes or its sideways rain for a week solid I am not guaranteed a stable - I would assume (as on most yards) the YO's horses would get priority and mine would be left out side.

I like a space to put all my stuff where I can groom and tack up - having a dedicated stable - even if rarely used for an actual stable allows that. getting everything out each time from a round the back stable just isn't as convenient as having it all where I left it.

I think you're priced right to cover all the costs - honestly it's really expensive to maintain a property to a good standard and keep grazing well looked after - just lots of people don't cover their costs, so yours looks expensive compared to others in the same area.
Until other yards are honest (with themselves) about how much it really costs, then you will always be top end price wise.

 

[Goldenstar]

Thank you for this. Just a point here: there are stables which people are welcome to use for tacking up, and can be used for terrible weather or overnight before shows etc. They aren't allocated per horse as there are 4 stables and 6 horses. There is plenty of storage (some in a random back stable, plus a shed plus a lockable container). I do take the point about feeding in the field and will have a think about how I can change this.

What I want to achieve is a mix of 1, 2 and 3. 1 to go towards maintenance, not an income for me. 2 would be nice (human) but not essential. 3, yes. I would expect each livery covers the cost of them being there in terms of maintenance and work, as well as the fact that by eating the grass there is less for my horses so there is an indirect cost here. But I don't expect to make money.

Think how would you manage in a severe weather event which two horses would be left out this for me would be a deal breaker if I was looking for somewhere.

 

[Abacus]

Think how would you manage in a severe weather event which two horses would be left out this for me would be a deal breaker if I was looking for somewhere.

I hadn't considered this as I've never needed it but I could manage. I have a barn along the lane, which wouldn't appeal to liveries as it's a hassle to walk them along there but I can put two of mine in there if we really did get terrible weather. It's big enough for them to go in together. So I would prioritise the liveries when we do need stables.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

If it works for you, then just stick to it. It might not be truly worth it otherwise.

The feeding setup doesn't bother me with the right horses. Mine gets fed in the field with his companions from time to time. They get tied to the fence with their bucket and are watched. They're tied quite far apart. The fence is thick metal posts so it works. The other thing to consider might be feed bags. The kind that the horse wears while they eat.

I'm not terribly surprised that yards close and that livery could be hard to find in some areas. People want something for nothing, and it's often a thankless job being a YO.

 

[starbucker]

Advertise as Full Livery at grass

Just wait til winter rolls round and post photos of your fields if they are good in the advertisement. Loads near us struggle to offer good winter turn out

Mine would be fine out all year round and turned a livery yard down for insufficent turnout but I don't give additional feed March-October as they are good doers, perhaps better to have a system where those that need it are brought in and fed to avoid field arguments if this is the issue. And the ones that need the extra feeds probs also need a stable..

 

[Fieldlife]

Advertise as Full Livery at grass

Just wait til winter rolls round and post photos of your fields if they are good in the advertisement. Loads near us struggle to offer good winter turn out

Mine would be fine out all year round and turned a livery yard down for insufficent turnout but I don't give additional feed March-October as they are good doers, perhaps better to have a system where those that need it are brought in and few to avoid field arguments if this is the issue. And the ones that need the extra feeds probs also need a stable..

I think it’s okay to say hay provided at cost in winter. Easier than people not wanting to pay an annualised amount.

 

[conniegirl]

There’s a yard - not covered apart from an overhang but there are stables. Yes a horse could be box rested. Hacking is good and a nice arena. It’s £325 per month including the services as mentioned.

I think it sounds very expensive tbh but i'm in yorkshire, its cheaper here.
I Pay £360 a month for Part livery.
Thats stable, bedding, hay, all year turnout, school, lunge pen, all weather turnout for the really grotty days, miles of off road hacking, YO mucks out, hays, poopicks and feeds during the week, we do it at the weekend

 

[starbucker]

Could be price its pretty cheap where I am - assisted DIY plus stable and hay, bring in and turnout (bedding not included) £300pcm, another nearby grass livery, arena, covered shelter for grooming farrier £25pw another field only £150 pm with daily checks

 

[Annagain]

I'd love my horses to live like this but would want to see to them myself - this is partly a financial thing and partly because I want to see them every day. I'd also be concerned about the one who has to have his diet restricted in summer - he's currently in during the day. If I could use a stable or a yard for that for the summer months, I'd be happier than having 'just' a field.

I'd be really clear what you're offering - that there's plenty of storage, a stable for occasional use, an arena and good hacking. It sounds good when you explain it but if your ad is like your initial post, I think the lack of detail about what IS included might make people think they're getting a field and nothing else.