"POA" - sellers - why not just say what the price is?

I have never enquired after a POA as I am of the ilk that if you have to ask then you can't afford it. If you dp phone up and can't afford it you are labled an instant time waster.

Now the mis descripton of horses is another matter.....
 
Don't think I have ever rung a POA either. One horse I had was advertised as "bargain"... I knew the yard where he was being sold from so rang up and I think started the conversation along the lines of, is your idea of a bargain the same as mine. We discussed it was vaguely in the same range and I did buy him. Had him best part of 20 years until he died.
 
in theory, the online auction is a good idea. But in reality, there could be fake buyers posting bids to push up the prices, like on eBay. Also, as a seller, you'd have no control over where the horse goes. Also people could bid amounts that they can't afford, the auction ends, and it turns out the winning buyer hasn't got a pot to wee in (same thing happens at live auctions).

As a private buyer, I am not sure I would trust an online auction for a horse, maybe it would work for dealers? For buying small items, like on ebay, online auctions work, but these are big ticket items, and there is a lot at risk.
 
Andiamo said:
in theory, the online auction is a good idea. But in reality, there could be fake buyers posting bids to push up the prices, like on eBay. Also, as a seller, you'd have no control over where the horse goes. Also people could bid amounts that they can't afford, the auction ends, and it turns out the winning buyer hasn't got a pot to wee in (same thing happens at live auctions).

As a private buyer, I am not sure I would trust an online auction for a horse, maybe it would work for dealers? For buying small items, like on ebay, online auctions work, but these are big ticket items, and there is a lot at risk.
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I feel it is inevitable that online auctions of horses will become commonplace. A quick Google brought up this site -- in the USA of course -- sellers can post photographs and videos.

http://www.sporthorseauctions.com/Online-Auction.html

I have just had a telephone conversation with a European buyer looking for a pony. I know exactly what they want and, although I have ponies for sale, I have nothing suitable and told them so. We did not discuss prices. They are phoning me back after they've decided whether to drive a 300 mile round trip just to look anyway. These are not the sort of people who are put off by POA -- or even that I have nothing advertised!
 
Andiamo said:
Sorry, just a rant here about sellers of horses...

I'm looking at dressage horse ads, and so many of them put POA, instead of providing a price for the horse. I find it counter-productive. I would prefer just to see the price of the horse to know immediately if I can afford it, before I make a call to the seller to find out more about it, thereby potentially wasting their time and mine.

One particular prominent seller has written POA on all their ads, and also has written "no time wasters or dreamers". So, I am nervous about asking the price of a horse, because if it's way over my budget, then I'm for sure going to be a timewaster in their eyes. For example, I enquired about a 4 yr old baby, and was told it is £28K. :eek: ... at least I have a good taste ;)

....then they asked me my budget. Well, I'm not happy giving that out, because suddenly horses can go up in price according to a potential buyer's budget. Why can't sellers just say it like it is, and state the price, in order to filter out the people who would not be able to afford it? I suggested to them in an email, that it would be very helpful if they would provide "price bands" for their horses on their website, and give each horse a rating, so at least buyers know the sort of range it's in, and whether it's worth picking up the phone or not.

Also, I'll call a private seller, and they'll waffle on for almost an hour about every tiny irrelevant detail, and leave me unable to get a word in edgewise, and unable to ask pertinent questions. By the time they take a breath and stop talking, I've lost the will to live, and just want to get off the phone, and I still haven't found out if the horse is sane, sound, if it's been out competing, why are they selling it etc.

Sellers - if you want to sell a horse - please be direct, honest, to the point, state the price in the ad, and allow the enquirer to ask you questions and speak on the phone! If this is not something you feel comfortable with, maybe let a trainer that knows the horse take the phone calls?

Rant over!!!
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^This

Puts me off as I automatically assume too pricey for me.
 
I always assume that POA means at least 5 figures. Occasionally the calibre of the horse, or even the seller, is such that you can see why there isn't a price given but generally not.
 
.... and I suppose "Offers when seen" would need another thread....!

But I do understand what the OP is saying. In a perfect market, stating prices would be ideal. A perfect market is where there are no barriers to trade, i.e. everyone has all the information they need, there are no distance barriers, etc. and that certainly doesn't exist in the remoter areas. Maybe where you are in Middle England, but certainly not up here in the Scottish Highlands!:)
 
I'm another one that comes from the school of thought that if you have to ask you probably can't afford it. As such I automatically discount any POA ads.
 
Ive sold a couple POA. They were 20k+ and well known locally and I wanted to avoid the chit chat and comment regarding price. Also sticking a definite price on a good, popular horse is hard so easier not to state one and wait for punters and any haggling
 
I remember years ago ringing up about a POA one. I think I was 20 and buying and my first self funded horse. It was more than 20 years ago and it was over £5k for a completely green 4 or 5 year old and I got the very snotty comment "oh is that out of your window?" :o Yes it was a long way out of my window!!:eek: Like many I think I would always assume now POA means I can't afford as I have never had bottomless pockets.
I think it is a shame if people use POA on horses that aren't mega bucks as I think it puts off I very much doubt I would enquire about one but I don't expect to get a horse for peanuts either.
 
Was descusing this today with a couple of friends one of whom said oh I love the poa ads !! if im bored at work I like ringing and argueing with a seller !!! I said whatever turns you on!! and that I had learnt to avoid them years ago as POA means Rogues and chancers ....
 
I had no idea POA raised such passions! Can't say I have ever used the expression but I am often reluctant to post a price simply because I don't know the value! I also enjoy a good haggle, though I know some don't.

I do believe one can tell a lot from a friendly chat over the telephone and, as a purchaser, POA would never put me off -- unless what was for sale was readily available elsewhere with a price displayed.

What has worked for me is a guide price with a comment that offers will be considered. If several are interested, the horse will be sold to the highest offer and I have sold for considerably more than the guide price in this way.

I think that is as near to being fair to both sides as it is possible to get and the seller can still refuse an offer from soneone who is totally unsuitable without causing embarassment. "Sorry, but you were out bid" sounds a lot better than "I wouldn't sell to you at any price"!

At the moment, there is a huge demand for "safe plodders". I have no doubt at all that if I had one to sell (I don't!), the phone would ring off the hook whether it was POA or any other wording in the advert. If there is a demand it will sell, regardless of the wording of the advert, and those who don't answer POA adverts will miss out!
 
Dry Rot said:
There was a similar thread on here not long ago. The question is not as simple as it sounds so I'm afraid this will be long!

I am a small breeder and increasingly do more with the (few) ponies I sell because I enjoy it and it adds value. I've an interest in the future of what I produce. Mine is a hobby rather than a business but I still have try to pay my way!

OK, I advertise a young horse which shows great promise as an eventer for £3,000. Miss X turns up with cheque book in hand, willing to pay the price, but she just wants a happy hacker as she is a novice and has no ambitions to do more. The truth is, the horse is obviously too much for what she wants but she wants him anyway.

Miss Y, on the other hand, is looking for an eventer and, if sucessful, her wins will be a good advertisement for my stud. She is also a good rider and is completely in sympathy with the horse. However, she, Miss Y, can't afford £3,000. If I had stated the price in an advertisement, she might well have passed by.

Should I sell Miss X a horse which is really too much for her just because she has the money?

There is a third buyer, Miss Z, who is so keen on the horse that she even offers £3,500 but she roughly handles the horse when she tries it and it is clearly a mismatch. She is rude, late, and critical -- but arrives in Daddy's Porsche and if pushed might even pay more.

I would suggest that the wise seller who has feelings for what they are selling rather than considering it purely in business terms will hold back on price and wait to see who wants to buy. The serious buyer, on the other hand, will have done some research and know what the market price for such a horse will be. If the horse suits them in every respect, they might even be prepared to bargain for a higher than market price because this one is "special".

For those who think more along the lines of "what I can afford", I suggest you do your research and speak to the owner and ask if they would be prepared to negotiate around that figure. Deals are done on that basis every day. To those just wanting a cheap horse, I say please don't waste my time. If the horse you would like to buy isn't worth the time and expense of a phone call, I am not sure I want to sell to you anyway!

I recently sold an old but perfectly fit pony for £3 (three pounds). She was never advertised and was worth a lot more. Why? Because she went to the perfect home where she will be loved and cared for. Yes, I could probably have got £500, even £1,000, for her (she still does everything and is the perfect child's pony), but would she have got such a good home?
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Very informative post and has made me re think my opinion on POA sales ads.
 
Dry Rot said:
What has worked for me is a guide price with a comment that offers will be considered. If several are interested, the horse will be sold to the highest offer and I have sold for considerably more than the guide price in this way.
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This works. At least it gives a starting point.
 
Dry Rot said:
Miss Y, on the other hand, is looking for an eventer and, if sucessful, her wins will be a good advertisement for my stud. She is also a good rider and is completely in sympathy with the horse. However, she, Miss Y, can't afford £3,000. If I had stated the price in an advertisement, she might well have passed by.
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Your comment, "if successful, her wins will be a good advertisement for my stud" is interesting. It is reassuring to hear you would take that into consideration, and that you would make a sympathetic compromise on price to this type of buyer, with a long-term view in mind.

However, on the flipside, this statement is most relevant to studs. It probably wouldn't be relevant to small / medium sized dealers, where profit seems to be the only thing driving them, and they don't look at horses at individuals - they're just commodities, and these types of sellers don't seem to care about their reputation. It's short term gain all the way.
 
Andiamo said:
Your comment, "if successful, her wins will be a good advertisement for my stud" is interesting. It is reassuring to hear you would take that into consideration, and that you would make a sympathetic compromise on price to this type of buyer, with a long-term view in mind.

However, on the flipside, this statement is most relevant to studs. It probably wouldn't be relevant to small / medium sized dealers, where profit seems to be the only thing driving them, and they don't look at horses at individuals - they're just commodities, and these types of sellers don't seem to care about their reputation. It's short term gain all the way.
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...which rather seems to agree my point that the serious would-be purchasers will usually have done some research.

It isn't rocket science to find out about people these days. A search on an email address, phone number, or a name, can reveal a startling amount of information and, if you have a post code, you can even use Google to look into their back gardens and measure the size of their swimming pools!:)

I'd expect a purchaser to have looked around and seen what other similar examples of the breed are selling for, who is selling what, and what success or otherwise has been achieved in competition. Some people are very bad at selling, others are under pressure to stretch the truth, and others...well...

So that is why I get a bit irritated when the first question is, "How much?" Is that really the most important consideration? It certainly isn't to me, the seller. To start, I want to be sure the horse is going to a suitable home. That means, not only a kind and knowledgeable one but one where the horse will hopefully realise it's full potential. And I wouldn't be too keen to sell to someone who is obviously going to sell on at some stage and won't have any concerns other than the price where it goes.
 
Dry Rot said:
So that is why I get a bit irritated when the first question is, "How much?" Is that really the most important consideration? It certainly isn't to me, the seller. To start, I want to be sure the horse is going to a suitable home. That means, not only a kind and knowledgeable one but one where the horse will hopefully realise it's full potential. And I wouldn't be too keen to sell to someone who is obviously going to sell on at some stage and won't have any concerns other than the price where it goes.
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As a buyer it really is the most important consideration. If I can't afford it I can't buy it. I don't think buyers care about horses fulfilling their potential either, buyers want a horse that will do the job they are buying it for. A Badminton bound horse is no good to me whatsoever as I have no desire at all to do Badminton. And as a buyer I always buy a horse thinking I may have to sell it, I have no idea what my future holds and I think there are very few people who can offer a home for life to a horse - what if you die or you don't get on with it?
 
Dry Rot said:
...which rather seems to agree my point that the serious would-be purchasers will usually have done some research. I'd expect a purchaser to have looked around and seen what other similar examples of the breed are selling for, who is selling what
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You are putting the responsibility on the buyer to work out the price for themselves? Why? If you are selling the horse, just state the price (or a price band or a guide price), so potential buyers know whether they can afford it or not. Sellers who make buyers jump through hoops, will lose those buyers to another easier seller, because they won't pick up the phone (due to lack of confidence or other reasons). Everyone's busy. People want to scan the ads, shortlist a couple that are within their price budget, and then enquire. Sellers who take the above approach are making it difficult for buyers. If you go back through this thread, you will see nearly everyone agrees that they don't bother with POA ads, they assume they cannot afford them.

Dry Rot said:
So that is why I get a bit irritated when the first question is, "How much?"
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Yes it is the most important question. Not everyone has bottomless pockets.
Of course it's going to be the first question...
 
dieseldog said:
As a buyer it really is the most important consideration. If I can't afford it I can't buy it. I don't think buyers care about horses fulfilling their potential either, buyers want a horse that will do the job they are buying it for. A Badminton bound horse is no good to me whatsoever as I have no desire at all to do Badminton. And as a buyer I always buy a horse thinking I may have to sell it, I have no idea what my future holds and I think there are very few people who can offer a home for life to a horse - what if you die or you don't get on with it?
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Good post agree on this and am sadly someone who has to budget so having a price for whatever I need or would like is a must, however there a sizeable number of folk for who money is a secondary consideration these are who the poa adverts are aimed at!!
luckly there are plenty of straight people with things to sell with a price!! see it like it view it buy it... and leave the poa to the folk with more money than sense or time to waste playing games with these shady dealers...
 
dieseldog said:
As a buyer it really is the most important consideration. If I can't afford it I can't buy it.
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I agree. Its the very first hurdle, if it passes that then you can move onto the serious questions. I find it shocking some people dont think its normal and very acceptable to ask the price as the first question! Id be really peed off if someone quizzed me on my horse for ages on the phone THEN asked me the price and say they cant afford it...!
 
To me POA means 'this horse is expensive' into £x0 000's so would never phone to ask the price for one.
I think for this sort of price POA is justified but for cheaper horses you're just reducing your potential market
 
I have had the experience of ringing for an animal which on paper looks in my price range and having a lovely chat with the owner, we both seem to think horse would suit/ home would suit, but then they tell me the price - and it is WAY out of my budget. Someone may pay that much for the horse, I will get a similar horse within my budget, but the general outcome is that the whole POA thing has been a complete waste of everyone's time. If I have to ever look for a horse again, i will stick to my guns and never ring a POA advert.
 
MagicMelon said:
I agree. Its the very first hurdle, if it passes that then you can move onto the serious questions. I find it shocking some people dont think its normal and very acceptable to ask the price as the first question! Id be really peed off if someone quizzed me on my horse for ages on the phone THEN asked me the price and say they cant afford it...!
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Ditto this, the very first thing I'd ask is a rough idea of price as I don't want to waste the sellers time!

I did ring one POA advert from a well known event horse producer and he wouldn't let me get a word in edge ways for a good five minutes before I could enquire regarding price only to find it was several thousand over budget. I thought it would be, but rang regardless as it can be very hard to price 4yr olds and I had a respectable budget available so wasn't being unrealistic. I did feel guilty about time, although it wasn't my fault!
 
At the other end of the scale, how would you all advertise a horse that was very cheap or free? I have one that I really just want a good home for, but I don't want to advertise her free because I don't want to have to field hundreds of phone calls from people who are just after a freebie. I was considering putting POA on the ad, but now I'm thinking that might not be such a good idea.
 
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