Policy on livery yard for in-foal pony - I'm not happy

[chasing-my-tail]

We own the small DIY livery yard.

I was a bit taken aback when the lady in question said her pony was in foal - firstly because we are not a breeding yard, never has it be mentioned nor was a question asked.

Now it due to foal she has asked us for another small field, which is a complete niusence as we are a very busy, so its going to take many hours to clear (at our expense).

We are going to have to charge her for the use of another field plus I dont want to rent it out for long as I know what will happen before we know it - it will be used as an extension.

I was thinking of doing a letter with the points made out for this field to protect us from further taken the p@ss out of.

My husband is still not happy about this foal thing either. What are the policies of having to provide an additional field - believe me we dont have much free space! In the BHS agreement nothing is mentioned on this either and it never crossed my mind.

 

[Hippona]

Well....you never know, you may be lucky....she may find a more welcoming yard on which to spend her money.

 

[kateo]

You can do whatever you want, give her what she wants or don't or give her notice to leave and tell her that your yard is not suitable for a foal.

 

[Tobiano]

Good heavens! I cannot imagine behaving like this with my livery yard. When I moved my youngster in I had the field modified with the YO's consent AT MY EXPENSE and everything was done with the prior agreement of the YO.

I havent seen the original post (I assume there is one) and whether the foal is a surprise but if not I would have expected the owner to be up front about the whole thing.

I would also suggest that as the YO you check the terms of your insurance - as you say, you may not be covered for breeding / foaling at the yard and I'd advise you to discuss it with your insurer or broker.

I would not go as far as to suggest turning the livery off the yard but I certainly think they should be paying every penny of additional cost.

 

[be positive]

I think you are right to feel put upon, unless the owner genuinely had no idea the mare was in foal until now she is taking liberties really, most DIY yards are not set up to have mares and foals, they will require a safe and separate field for the next 6 months, the foal may then need somewhere other than the usual fields when weaned, ideally with another youngster or something of a similar size.
This should have been discussed when bringing the pony to you or before sending her to stud if it was done during her time at your yard, not left until the last minute to make arrangements, yet another thing to think about when taking on new liveries and more in the contract.

 

[honetpot]

To be honest I think its more trouble than its worth. Work out how much this is going to cost you in labour and materials against the amount you can charge. You also have to think what is going to happen to the foal once weaned, it can not live on its own and unless its really well bred she will practically have to give it away once weaned. The mare should be absolutely fine living out with others, mine do as long as its a settled herd.
I do not know if this was an unplanned foal but its not up to you to sort out the problem.

 

[Equinus]

I agree, they should do the work/foot the bill if they knew the mare was in foal and didn't tell you. And you need to check your insurance.

It might be a good idea to make a point in your contract for the future.

 

[mynutmeg]

I'm on livery with an in-foal mare but the first thing I did was discuss it with yo before even looking for a stallion. We are a different set up in that the yo has several in-foal mares as well so we have slightly more appropriate facillities.

I think you're right to be annoyed (assuming it's not a bogof and they only just found out). Any extra expense should be billed to them and I'd make this quite clear with a written contract to that effect before you do any of the work. Also set out how much livery is to be charged for the foal and from when, ie I'm paying nothing extra for the first 3 months then £10 a week extra till weaning when it will go onto either grass or normal livery.

If she doesn't like your terms then she can find somewhere else. Should have told you and been honest

 

[Hippona]

Surely the pony must have arrived pregnant.....either known to the owner in which case it should have been discussed, or its BOGOF. It wouldn't have gone off to stud without YO knowing surely??
I assume she will be paying for the extra field?
Tell her she can rent the extra space short term, but will need to clear it/ get it ready herself and make it clear there is an end point......

 

[katastrophykat]

I bred a foal at livery- discussed with the Yard owners before the mare went to stud, agreements made about where/how she would foal and my YO's wife is an ex-stud groom and vet nurse before she became a radiographer. She was behind me the whole way for advice when I needed it. If they had said no, I would not have bred, or moved my mare. We foaled her in the field next to her usual herd, and put the mare and foal back in with the herd at 4 weeks. There was a bit of a runabout but it sharp settled, with mum as a mobile milk bar and the head mare in the herd as 'auntie' who taught him hi manners. When it came to weaning, he barely noticed that his dam was missing- he had his Auntie Teagan!

All I'm saying really is that it can work in with the herd- depends what it's like.

 

[Elsiecat]

If you've got a spare field that isn't currently in usable condition (so I assume its just stood there used for nothing) I don't see the problem with her using it, especially if she's paying extra!
Sure, she should have told you earlier. But perhaps she didn't know herself?
You come across as a YO that I'd run a mile from

 

[horsesatemymoney]

Bit unreasonable on her part,but she is your customer- you sound a bit abrasive, maybe why she hasn't been open with you?

 

[Marydoll]

I think it depends on the circumstances tbh, if she knew the mare was in foal she's a real chancer and shouldve discussed it with you, if not and shes trying to make the best of a bad situation you could either show her the space, tell her she can have it for an agreed term but she will have to clear it and ensure its safe for her mare and foal, that you take no responsibility for the pair in regards to the foaling and draw up a contract that states this. Tbh if i was her i'd leave for something more suitable and settled, but youre right, it shouldnt all have been dumped on you to sort out

 

[thatsmygirl]

I agree your attitude stinks, I wouldn't want a yo such as you after the way that was written. Think we are lucky where we are, a small group of people, do what we want and never see a yo apart from payday. I couldn't be bothered with snotty people ESP if your a paying customer.

I would also watch that the owner doesn't appear on here and see this, happens to often!!

 

[chasing-my-tail]

Thanks for some good feedback - we are a very small DIY outfit providing a friendly, approachable and quality grazing. Its very reasonable and yes it is a business so it needs to pay - additional hours worked need to be accounted for like any business. An empty field needs to be checked over and cleared and its not an opportunity to spread the grazing on our land as and when the owners feel like it. No different to any business that rents.

The ladies are very happy here - if they werent happy they'd leave. All issues are ironed out at the time. I didnt know that the pony went to stud until a few weeks ago and never had to deal with this before. I agree she should of asked and checked with us first and will check with NFU later on our insurance policy.

Sorry to see some harsh replies, the reason I'm on here is to find facts, I didnt realise as a "business" I wasn't allowed to ask or vent questions!!! Sorry to offend some of you <growl back>.

 

[onlytheponely]

I'd be checking my yard insurance policy very carefully as it might not cover foals under a certain age. If yours doesn't cover her animals she will need to be aware of this and, if necessary, take out her own policy to cover her foal. As a yard owner I would want to see proof of her cover anyway.

Any field she goes into will need proper fencing as foals can hurt themselves on thin air. If you weren't informed of the situation in advance then she should be paying for any extra fencing/clearing work necessary to accommodate her needs. It's not about being insensitive or unhelpful it's about not being informed/asked.

Is she intending to let let the mare foal in the field? Is it the mare's first foal? Does anyone on the yard have any experience with foaling and it's potential complications?

Not an ideal position to find yourself in OP and you have my sympathy. Too many people assume that it will all go smoothly, sadly it isn't always like that.

 

[quirky]

I didnt know that the pony went to stud until a few weeks ago and never had to deal with this before. I agree she should of asked and checked with us first and will check with NFU later on our insurance policy.

If I was putting my mare in foal, I would want to make sure that the YO had both the facilities and knowledge to support me and the mare.
I would be wanting a larger box for foaling, straw to bed on (we are usually on sawdust) and the YO's permission to carry out the late night checks for however long was necessary.

If I was you, I too would be mad at this woman's complete disregard for you. Our yard is all locked up at night, assuming yours is, it is going to be quite intrusive for you if you live on site and have her coming and going at all times.

As it happens, the yard I am on now could accommodate a mare and foal, others I have been on couldn't possibly have done so and I would have moved somewhere more suitable prior to getting the mare in foal.

If it really is a massive inconvenience to you, maybe you could suggest she sends the mare back to stud to foal down

 

[WelshD]

If you only found out a few weeks ago then I would ask her to clear the field or charge her

If the foal is imminent then obviously they can't move which would be the obvious solution if you aren't set up for foals

I would personally get the livery to sign something to say they are satisfied with your makeshift paddock

If they have chanced not telling you about the foal they may chance action if the foal gets injured

I would also stress that you are not paid to do the regular checks needed during the pregnancy and early days after the birth etc so they'll need to make arrangements

Your original post did sound like your attitude was not good but to be honest after your later post I can fully understand why you are pi$$ed

Had they told you months ago it would be very different

 

[Polos Mum]

I'm amazed an owner sent the pony off to stud without discussing foaling, facilities with you first. Unless you're happy with all the extra inconvenience (including here potentially living there for a few weeks over foaling to do 2 hourly checks, and then having to accomodate at weaning and then potentially a young colt etc.) and if the pony isn't due imminently I'd suggest she looks for specialist foaling livery. The extra cost for your time/ inconvenience will be very large in comparison to what she's used to paying.

My attitude would be different if it was a BOGOF.

If it;s a nice yard with nice ladies who are happy then you should fill the space no problem.

 

[Maesfen]

Thanks for some good feedback - we are a very small DIY outfit providing a friendly, approachable and quality grazing. Its very reasonable and yes it is a business so it needs to pay - additional hours worked need to be accounted for like any business. An empty field needs to be checked over and cleared and its not an opportunity to spread the grazing on our land as and when the owners feel like it. No different to any business that rents.

The ladies are very happy here - if they werent happy they'd leave. All issues are ironed out at the time. I didnt know that the pony went to stud until a few weeks ago and never had to deal with this before. I agree she should of asked and checked with us first and will check with NFU later on our insurance policy.

Sorry to see some harsh replies, the reason I'm on here is to find facts, I didnt realise as a "business" I wasn't allowed to ask or vent questions!!! Sorry to offend some of you <growl back>.

In that case, the owner is a complete muppet to not have consulted you first. TBH, if you're not set up to have the space or facilities a mare and foal should have I would be telling her to find somewhere else as it shows a complete disregard for taking all precautions/situations before she should even have thought about taking her mare to stud; it begs the thought what else she is assuming that you'll take care of for her hobby.

And no, I don't think your attitude stinks at all. It's your yard and the facilities you have are up to you; you purposely haven't gone for being breeding livery so it's wrong of your livery to assume she can change things for her benefit without consulting you in the very first place. Even if it had been a surprise bogof, I would still be saying the same I'm afraid unless I was happy to alter things for them.
As to charges, it's at least £10 per day for mare with foal at stud usually a lot more so even at DIY, you need to charge at least £6 a day for them, more if you get involved with the handling of them.
At the end of the day, your business, your rules and in your case I wouldn't be bending over backwards to accommodate her I'm afraid because she's been so sneaky. I can't believe she has the gall to insist on changes which you wouldn't have made on your own behalf.

 

[Hippona]

I'm amazed she sent the pony to stud without discussing with you....that is out of order certainly. I would be annoyed at that too.

I can appreciate it's a nuisance....but it's sortable. Just make sure you charge enough to cover costs, labour etc.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Tell her to take it to the stud to foal and keep it there until the foal is weaned? Surely a stud will have better facilities anyway.

 

[justabob]

I think you have every right to be pee'd off OP, I really don't understand why you have had such harsh comments from members on this forum.

 

[WelshD]

I would also ask her to move but I didnt think you could/should travel a heavily pregnant mare...

 

[Patterdale]

I'd be peed off too, and I'd charge her every penny of the extra costs.

It shouldn't be your place to subsidise her irresponsible breeding.

 

[Polos Mum]

Re: insurance. Do disclaimer have any hold in this country? If so, make her sign one

I'd definitely second this, foals can get into so much trouble and as she hasn't the curtesy to discuss this with you in advance I'd hazard a guess she'd be happy to sue you if the foal was injured in not 100% ideal fencing or stood in in the box as it isn't a huge foaling box or attacked by other horses on the yard, if the foal wondered off while being lead to the field.

TBH how will she lead them to and from field - in my limited experience this is a two person job 1 for mare and 1 for foal - does she expect you do to this or does she have a friend / OH that can come with her twice a day? - all these silly little things need to be thought through and costed before you give her a price.

I can't recall who on here but someone recently posted about loosing a 6 week old foal when it was attacked by another mare in the field.

can you work out how far gone the mare is and whether she's still fit to travel?

 

[HBM1]

I am absolutely amazed at some of the comments on here, saying how rude the YO is, but being equally rude in response. I breed on a very small scale and last year, before my mare foaled, I moved to a DIY yard. I checked prior to moving that the manager was happy for this and could accommodate a foal. Foals do not just pitch up and merrily carry on with life, they need proper fencing, a good sized stable to foal down in and other people around the yard also have to be accommodating towards them.

Foals need leading in, I am sure the lady will not be able to lead both mare and foal herself in the early days, so will possibly be asking for help to turn out and bring in. Or is she going to have the foal lead in loose? This can cause other problems for those around the yard. Now down to the actual foaling, no one knows exactly when they are going to arrive, so will this lady be camped out overnight for days on end? If the YO lives on site, this may be disruptive for her, and the other horses on the yard. Or is baby just going to arrive on his/her own, in which case, morally most people would feel some kind of responsibility to check if the owner isn't. Has the lady had foals before, or is this her first? What field arrangements does she expect when foal is weaned? Does she have a private field, or share with the other liveries? Are the other liveries horses ok to be around a foal?

The problem for the YO is that NONE of this has been checked out. I think it is very rude of the livery to be honest and unless I could be sure I had answers to every question I wanted to ask, both regarding before and after foaling, I would not want the added responsibility. It isn't just a case of "aww cute foalie on the yard, how great".

 

[Elsiecat]

I am absolutely amazed at some of the comments on here, saying how rude the YO is

I may be wrong but after OP confirmed that this was a planned breeding by the owner and not a BOGOF that no one has called the YO rude. It was only whilst the possibility was open that it could be a BOGOF that's left the owner in a bad position that anyone commented on the YO attitude.

If it had have been a BOGOF then the YO was being unfair.
Now we know it isn't and was planned, the YO is justified in being annoyed.

 

[HBM1]

I may be wrong but after OP confirmed that this was a planned breeding by the owner and not a BOGOF that no one has called the YO rude. It was only whilst the possibility was open that it could be a BOGOF that's left the owner in a bad position that anyone commented on the YO attitude.

If it had have been a BOGOF then the YO was being unfair.
Now we know it isn't and was planned, the YO is justified in being annoyed.

but maybe someone could have asked the question before some of the responses were written?

 

[Elsiecat]

but maybe someone could have asked the question before some of the responses were written?

True but I don't think anyone commented on anything in particular, just the YO attitude in her first comment