Policy on livery yard for in-foal pony - I'm not happy

[Choccie]

You cannot charge grazing for a foal until it's 6 months old - there's a law somewhere but no idea where I'd find it now.

Really?

But the yard owner is well within her rights to charge extra for individual turnout though. That is an accepted practice in the livery business.

My concern (as an ex livery manager and small time breeder) is foaling supervision.

Has the client discussed her long term plans for the foal, or are they assuming you will build an extra stable!!!

I wouldn't ask them to leave in the mare had less than a month to foal, as i would not want to be a scapegoat if anything went wrong during foaling.

I do think you need to sit them down and find out a few more facts and their intentions, then present them with an agreement (in the form of a letter would be fine) to supplement their existing agreement. I would stress in the letter that you are not a stud and do not provide broodmare, foaling or youngstock livery as part of your service. Also advise this is a one off and not to be repeated, and the additional fee for the individual turnout paddock which is available until Xdate is £X.

 

[HBM1]

I have to agree, one of my brother's liveries has found out her mare is a bogof and we are trying to provide a safe area for her to foal. If there are costs then charge them, but don't moan about it.

An unexpected foal is completely different to one which has been planned behind the YO's back though.

 

[night_mare]

You cannot charge grazing for a foal until it's 6 months old - there's a law somewhere but no idea where I'd find it now.

At the stud yard where my mare went for foaling, they charge livery for mare only when in foal, half price livery for the foal until weaned, and full price once it's weaned. They did provide services though such as bringing in and turning out, feeding and even when they were turned out 24/7 they did routine checks, harrowed fields, etc so it wasn't just grazing without any services so this may be different.

Until the foal is weaned it's not really grazing so I could see why it may be that you couldn't charge for grazing until it was was weaned - but some foals are weaned at 5 months, not 6 months. If the yard owner is doing daily checks on the horses, poo-picking/harrowing fields, then they are providing a service and that work has increased due to the foal so it would seem logical to charge something for the additional horse (foal). If the livery is responsible for checking the horses daily, poo-picking/harrowing the field then it is strictly grazing that is being provided without any services.

 

[ribbons]

I'm gobsmacked at some of the replies here.
A law telling you what you may legally charge rent for on a foal, what utter utter rubbish.
If I was op I would be furious. I breed,and the set for mares and foals is quite specific.
An apologetic owner with a bogof is one thing, this livery is a sneaky madam.
If foaling date soon, you have a problem as it would be very unfair to mare to move her now. If it was my yard I would give her notice to leave when foal a month old and cover any cost in labour and materials needed to accommodate the mare and foal.
As far as stinking attitudes go, many who have replied here have a huge one.
You are a livery yard not a stud and you have been deliberately deceived. Get rid of this person as soon as is safely possible for the mare and foal, which is about a month, though many travel earlier to return to stallion, a month old is more than fair on your part.
If mare has 8 weeks or more to go, I would insist on her moving immediately.
Honestly, the cheek and attitude of some people. Just remember who's property it is and who calls the shots.

 

[Polos Mum]

You cannot charge livery for a foal until it is 6months of age

Plenty of yards charge for the foal from birth as the needs of the mare are different after foaling. Why can't you charge more? (or is this NZ thing only?)

 

[kateo]

I would be surprised if the government saw fit to legislate on livery fees for foals, there are probably more important things for Parliament to attend to. It may be customary not to charge but that's different.

 

[windand rain]

Moving my mare too close to foaling killed her foal that and a numpty vet.
No foal should be born unless it is wanted, into a safe and controlled environment, a caring experienced owner who makes sure it gets the best start and in a place where it has been agreed before hand as it is unfair to the foal and the YO to be duped into it.
Mares dont need vet care while carrying a foal anymore than any other horse so only if needed so routine worming so vaccinations may be the only vet attention required and that wouldnt be unusual. My mares were away for 6 months to be covered but foaled at home. Foals are notorious for being accident prone and does she have a plan in place for losing the mare as it is a high possibility after all mares have a high neonatal death rate and dying during delivery
Not for the feint heated if you love your mare too much to lose it dont ever di it. I only had one highland foal as they are a rare breed I adore my mare but felt duty bound to give her the chance to promote the breed and luckily I got a filly
Colt foals can be a nightmare as they can cover a mare from an early age so need to be kept separate and can certainly do the deed if they are born with descended testicles as some are it is not unheard of for a late weaned foal to cover its own mother

 

[ribbons]

A livery yard owner can charge whatever they like for whatever they like.
If it's ridiculously high they will get no liveries but there is no law against it. What a ridiculous comment. Many many of my friends providing stud and foaling livery must be breaking the law permanently. Honestly the rubbish spouted as fact on this forum is laughable.

 

[Ginge Crosby]

I'm gobsmacked at some of the replies here.
A law telling you what you may legally charge rent for on a foal, what utter utter rubbish.
If I was op I would be furious. I breed,and the set for mares and foals is quite specific.
An apologetic owner with a bogof is one thing, this livery is a sneaky madam.
If foaling date soon, you have a problem as it would be very unfair to mare to move her now. If it was my yard I would give her notice to leave when foal a month old and cover any cost in labour and materials needed to accommodate the mare and foal.
As far as stinking attitudes go, many who have replied here have a huge one.
You are a livery yard not a stud and you have been deliberately deceived. Get rid of this person as soon as is safely possible for the mare and foal, which is about a month, though many travel earlier to return to stallion, a month old is more than fair on your part.
If mare has 8 weeks or more to go, I would insist on her moving immediately.
Honestly, the cheek and attitude of some people. Just remember who's property it is and who calls the shots.

I totally agree - some of the replies on here have really shocked me. I didn't read the OP as having a huge attitude problem, just someone who was peeved at being taken advantage of and now having to make allowances for them.

I run a DIY yard, and if one of my liveries did this to me behind my back (took a mare to stud with the intention of breeding a foal and keeping it on my property, without notifying me in advance) I would be livid. We have absolutely no way of accommodating such a situation. If it was a BOGOF, i'd be sympathetic, but unfortunately we still would not be able to keep them there. Having been a livery in the past, I wouldn't dream of doing something so underhand as putting my mare in foal and expecting the yard owner to accommodate us.

Whilst liveries are paying for a service, it does not give them the right to dictate to YO's what is included in this service.

 

[night_mare]

Who says?
I can't imagine their being an actual law on this?

It seems there are plenty of stud farms that do:

Pembers Hill Stud Farm
Per day, mare at grass - £8
Per day, mare and foal at grass - £9

County Farm Stud
Grass Livery
Barren Mare £5.50 per day.
Mare & Foal £7.50 per day

End House Stud
Single mare at grass £5 per day
Mare & foal at grass £6 per day

 

[Marydoll]

I have to agree, one of my brother's liveries has found out her mare is a bogof and we are trying to provide a safe area for her to foal. If there are costs then charge them, but don't moan about it.

Why shouldnt she complain about it, the livery is well and truly taking the piss doing all this behind the yo back.
If the mare is in a condition she cant be moved, thats a huge inconvenience to the yo, causing problems that will put her out of pocket, and possibly cause problems for other liveries.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Don't forget that Tnavas is not in the UK. It's perfectly possible that in NZ you cannot charge livery for young foals (I have no idea RE NZ laws).

 

[wallykissmas]

We own the small DIY livery yard.

I was a bit taken aback when the lady in question said her pony was in foal - firstly because we are not a breeding yard, never has it be mentioned nor was a question asked.

Now it due to foal she has asked us for another small field, which is a complete niusence as we are a very busy, so its going to take many hours to clear (at our expense).

We are going to have to charge her for the use of another field plus I dont want to rent it out for long as I know what will happen before we know it - it will be used as an extension.

I was thinking of doing a letter with the points made out for this field to protect us from further taken the p@ss out of.

My husband is still not happy about this foal thing either. What are the policies of having to provide an additional field - believe me we dont have much free space! In the BHS agreement nothing is mentioned on this either and it never crossed my mind.

Why not just say no to the other field and allow the owner to move their horse and soon to be foal else where.

Maybe the fact the owner hasn't said anything says more about the yard they are on than it does the owner ......

The owner might have other plans but thought they would give you the option to help them stay on the yard and for you to make more money.

There are two sides to every story and plenty of yards that would help about. Cutting your nose of to spite your face I think.

You don't mention if the mare has a field on her own with a stable she could foal in and then move ? Or if she has a big field and the owner has simply asked for more grazing.

 

[HBM1]

Maybe the fact the owner hasn't said anything says more about the yard they are on than it does the owner .......

Seriously? Maybe if she felt that uncomfortable around the owner of the yard, she should not have taken the decision to put the mare in foal in the first place?
Having a foal is not obligatory.

 

[Maesfen]

You cannot charge grazing for a foal until it's 6 months old - there's a law somewhere but no idea where I'd find it now.

That's ridiculous, there's no law to say that anyone can't charge anything for something they're supplying. By the time the foal is just over a month old it will be consuming almost as much grass as a pony. It will also be causing more wear and tear on the ground with playing and running around so yes, it should be charged for just not at the full rate for a single horse.

 

[Marydoll]

Seriously? Maybe if she felt that uncomfortable around the owner of the yard, she should not have taken the decision to put the mare in foal in the first place?
Having a foal is not obligatory.

^^^^ this
To me, the livery might as well have brought in another horse overnight without discussing with the yo, announced it needs seperate grazing saying she cant be taken off the yard for a few months, to those who think the yo is unreasonable who would you suggest was in the wrong there

 

[Jools2345]

You cannot charge livery for a foal until it is 6months of age

so what happens when they are weaned early and sold at say 4.5 months (not good but it does happen)? do they put them on a yard and not pay?

of course you pay for foals

 

[Maesfen]

Maybe the fact the owner hasn't said anything says more about the yard they are on than it does the owner ......

The owner might have other plans but thought they would give you the option to help them stay on the yard and for you to make more money.

Who or what on earth gives the right to this owner to put pressure on her YO for something that she knows her YO does not provide?
Liveries are on a yard that they themselves have chosen because of the facilities that yard provides. Just because this livery's priorities have now changed, it does not give her the right to insist that her new demands are met by this YO. It is not the livery's place to decide what can or can't be provided by the YO even if they do have the space. It should be more a case of I think I have to move as you don't have the facilities I will need now thus giving them the chance to offer them if they could/wanted to but to demand they provide them almost immediately is completely the wrong way of going about things.

Honestly, some liveries' attitudes and rudeness on this thread astound me. You are paying a pittance for the facilities you receive at a fraction of what it costs to own and maintain that property and until you have your own land and property you have absolutely no right to dictate what is and isn't provided for you other than what was agreed in the first place when you went there.

 

[RutlandH2O]

Who or what on earth gives the right to this owner to put pressure on her YO for something that she knows her YO does not provide?
Liveries are on a yard that they themselves have chosen because of the facilities that yard provides. Just because this livery's priorities have now changed, it does not give her the right to insist that her new demands are met by this YO. It is not the livery's place to decide what can or can't be provided by the YO even if they do have the space. It should be more a case of I think I have to move as you don't have the facilities I will need now thus giving them the chance to offer them if they could/wanted to but to demand they provide them almost immediately is completely the wrong way of going about things.

Honestly, some liveries' attitudes and rudeness on this thread astound me. You are paying a pittance for the facilities you receive at a fraction of what it costs to own and maintain that property and until you have your own land and property you have absolutely no right to dictate what is and isn't provided for you other than what was agreed in the first place when you went there.

^^^THIS!!! Oh so well said!!

 

[wallykissmas]

Who or what on earth gives the right to this owner to put pressure on her YO for something that she knows her YO does not provide?
Liveries are on a yard that they themselves have chosen because of the facilities that yard provides. Just because this livery's priorities have now changed, it does not give her the right to insist that her new demands are met by this YO. It is not the livery's place to decide what can or can't be provided by the YO even if they do have the space. It should be more a case of I think I have to move as you don't have the facilities I will need now thus giving them the chance to offer them if they could/wanted to but to demand they provide them almost immediately is completely the wrong way of going about things.

Honestly, some liveries' attitudes and rudeness on this thread astound me. You are paying a pittance for the facilities you receive at a fraction of what it costs to own and maintain that property and until you have your own land and property you have absolutely no right to dictate what is and isn't provided for you other than what was agreed in the first place when you went there.

Has the owner asked for another field or demanded. I don't understand why come on here slagging off a paying customer who has asked for something else's . Simply say no.....

I'm not a livery either if its me your referring too.

 

[Hippona]

I'm not a livery either....

I also can't quite get my head around why,if the yard is as happy and friendly as YO states, the livery felt the "need" to go behind YOs back..not saying she was justified at all, far from from it.....Just all a bit odd.
Two choices...ask her to leave, or charge appropriately..... don't see what all the fuss is about TBH...

 

[Elsiecat]

I'm not a livery either..

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I also can't quite get my head around why,if the yard is as happy and friendly as YO states, the livery felt the "need" to go behind YOs back..not saying she was justified at all, far from from it.....Just all a bit odd.
Two choices...ask her to leave, or charge appropriately..... don't see what all the fuss is about TBH...

The OP's hay thread was an odd one too.

 

[Clava]

Why shouldnt she complain about it, the livery is well and truly taking the piss doing all this behind the yo back.
If the mare is in a condition she cant be moved, thats a huge inconvenience to the yo, causing problems that will put her out of pocket, and possibly cause problems for other liveries.

Don't be so ridiculous, the YO can ask any mare that isn't actually in labour to move and presummably the birth is not immenent as preparing this field is going to take time. The YO makes the rules and gets paid for want they want to provide (no need for them to be go of pocket at all). Liveries dictate nothing as they can always be asked to leave.

 

[ribbons]

Delicious D, I can't quote on phone but it was you on page one that accused op of having an attitude that stinks and she shouldn't come on here moaning about a paying customer. Whether you thought it a bogof or not you clearly felt the livery was king because she paid and the op should bend over backwards to accommodate her. That is the attitude that stinks, and the reason I would never again have liveries.
Maesfen is spot on, when people own their own land, maintain that property and put up with narky owners who expect the world for a few quid then they call the shots.
Every single horse owner needs to remember livery customers are 10 a penny, finding a good yard to keep your horse is like gold dust.
I have acres of land and Plenty of empty stables. I graze sheep for a local farmer for nothing and store stuff in stables before I'd have people using my land and facilities trying to tell me what
they're entitled to. I've had liveries in the past and if they're not moaning about something they're bitching amongst each other.
Like I said, I breed. My yard is ultra safe to accommodate my foals and youngstock, fencing perfect, pasture well cared for. A full sized school, electric, water,
Lorry parking, CCTV etc etc. But it was never enough for some. They pay me 25 quid and think they own the place.
They soon remembered who owned it when I closed it and realised what they had had.
I now have mine and a friends 2.
It's bliss.
So all you lot telling op she is selfish, thoughtless and should be grateful sneaky livery offered her this "wonderful opportunity" to have another horse on the place, and earn more money (ha ha). THINK ON, you would all be up the creek without livery yard owners. Their property enables you to keep your horse.
If you don't like the service your getting, move, simple.

 

[Clava]

If you don't like the service your getting, move, simple.

...and if you don't like your liveries ask them to leave, (a better option than moaning about them on a forum I think).

 

[Marydoll]

Don't be so ridiculous, the YO can ask any mare that isn't actually in labour to move and presummably the birth is not immenent as preparing this field is going to take time. The YO makes the rules and gets paid for want they want to provide (no need for them to be go of pocket at all). Liveries dictate nothing as they can always be asked to leave.

Why am i ridiculous, because i disagree with you ??
If you can prepare a field for a mare and foal without being out of pocket, good for you, the yo has said she'd be out of pocket, thats the person id listen to in this story over your statement, and for what ?? A livery who has went behind hers, and the other liverys backs to do as she pleases, not giving a toss for the mare or foal by the sound of it,or she'd have ensured everything was in place before setting out on this venture instead of expecting others to put up and sort things out for her. Further back in the thread, it is stated the mare is to far on to be asked to move, as indeed others have stated theyve had foals die after mares being asked to move to late into term, so please refrain from trying to paint me as ridiculous when it appears more to be a hat you should be wearing in this instance, it sounds very much like this poor yo is dammed if she does and dammed if she doesnt, because some inconsiderate livery has decided the yo has the land to accommodate her and a foal. If she was asked to leave and the foal died, again its the yo going to be made to be the bad one.

 

[Victoria25]

Im on a small private diy yard and I checked with my yo before even considering breeding from my girl. I put my own post/rail fencing up within the main turnout field but Im lucky our yo lets us treat the place as our own. Im not being charged until baby needs its own stable.

 

[brucethegypsycob]

It is a bit cheeky. By personally I think your attitude stinks coming on here moaning about a business client. I hope she finds a better yard.

Livery yards are a business not a right, change her more which is acceptable as obviously there will be more tailored needs or let her find somewhere else but tbh a heavily pregnant mare should be kept calm.

As above.

 

[FreddiesGal]

...and if you don't like your liveries ask them to leave, (a better option than moaning about them on a forum I think).

Wrote the exact same thing then saw your own post!