Poll: Do you see racing being banned?

[sakura]

Which top athletes are vegans??

Lewis Hamilton, Novak Djokovic, Venus Williams, Scott Jurek to name a few.

 

[RachelFerd]

Venus Williams, Novak Djokovic, Lewis Hamilton, Dotsie Bausch, Alex Morgan, Morgan Mitchell, Patrick Bouboumian

Or this story, which is incredible, about a 100 year old runner who did a 10k to celebrate his 100th birthday -https://www.greatveganathletes.com/news/happy-100th-birthday-to-mike-fremont/#:~:text=Vegan%20runner%20Mike%20Fremont%20reaches,knows%20best%20%2D%20with%20a%20run.&text=The%20world%20record%20holder%20has,90%20for%20the%20marathon%20distance. (vegan for the last 41 years.... seems to have worked out ok for him)

 

[Katieg123]

Its been proven time and time again that (most) humans can absolutely thrive on a plant based diet - if you want to be vegan, fine. If you want to eat meat thats also fine but I hate when people pretend that its impossible to survive without meat when they just dont want to feel guilty for not being vegan.

 

[sakura]

Being vegan and entirely plant based seems to have also worked out pretty well for Scott Jurek:

Jurek is an advocate of plant-based eating for health and ethical/environmental reasons, and he cites his diet as the key to his athletic performance and recovery. He gave up eating meat in 1997 and became totally plant based in 1999, motivated by the belief that poor nutrition was responsible for the chronic illnesses he saw in his family and in his physical therapy patients.[4][5]

You're not an extremist simply by being vegan or vegetarian. Most human bodies will cope absolutely fine without meat or animal products, some excel. There are entire tribes who do not eat meat or animal products and are also doing just fine.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

What makes me laugh with vegans are the ones who also protest climate change whilst refusing to admit that they are part of the problem. Unless they only eat what is grown locally by farmers then most of their food has a horrific number of air miles and road miles before it makes its way to them. Some of the growing conditions for the ingredients of these foods is incredibly damaging to wildlife. Much of it is covered in pesticides whilst it's growing which obviously kills lots of animals.

Obviously I am not taring all vegans with the same brush. Just the hypocritical ones. And you couldn't get a bigger hypocrit than Lewis Hamilton. He is all for climate change yet he drives a car around for hours spewing out all sorts, he flies around the world causing more problems and he won't even fly in the same plane as his car and crew so that's 2 planes making the journeys.

 

[splashgirl45]

Its been proven time and time again that (most) humans can absolutely thrive on a plant based diet - if you want to be vegan, fine. If you want to eat meat thats also fine but I hate when people pretend that its impossible to survive without meat when they just dont want to feel guilty for not being vegan.

I eat meat half of the time and veggies the other half , I don’t feel guilty that I am not completely veggie or vegan , I find that a very odd thing to say. Neither options of meat or veg are wrong, it’s just choice

 

[sakura]

People are vegan or vegetarian for their own reasons, I only replied to answer the question that many top athletes follow that diet. Personally, I am vegetarian for ethical reasons and fully accept I am hypocritical in many aspects. I'm just trying to do my best

 

[Katieg123]

I eat meat half of the time and veggies the other half , I don’t feel guilty that I am not completely veggie or vegan , I find that a very odd thing to say. Neither options of meat or veg are wrong, it’s just choice

Thats exactly my point? I was referring to a post above saying essentially saying vegans are extremist because humans need meat to live.. I am also not vegan btw

 

[Fieldlife]

selfishly, no. Though would totally support increased accountability and traceability.

My main hacking area is Epsom Downs, which is privately owned, and maintained by the Jockey Club (some crossover with Epsom Council). I massively benefit from all that is done in the area to make Epsom Downs accessible to horses (e.g. horse safe crossings, traffic monitoring, maintenance of land and surfaces, all the wardens, and support staff. (When I fell off going up a grass canter track last year, there were 3-4 wardens with walkkie talkies conveying loose horse and converging on my horse, and they shut the nearest exit to the road to keep my horse on the downs. Plus checked I was okay etc.)

And I enjoy seeing the race horses being exercised on the Downs, early morning, as I hack out. They typically look glorious. It is a thriving community, and feels timeless and ageless.

 

[RachelFerd]

What makes me laugh with vegans are the ones who also protest climate change whilst refusing to admit that they are part of the problem. Unless they only eat what is grown locally by farmers then most of their food has a horrific number of air miles and road miles before it makes its way to them. Some of the growing conditions for the ingredients of these foods is incredibly damaging to wildlife. Much of it is covered in pesticides whilst it's growing which obviously kills lots of animals.

Obviously I am not taring all vegans with the same brush. Just the hypocritical ones. And you couldn't get a bigger hypocrit than Lewis Hamilton. He is all for climate change yet he drives a car around for hours spewing out all sorts, he flies around the world causing more problems and he won't even fly in the same plane as his car and crew so that's 2 planes making the journeys.

You are however completely and totally wrong about the air and road miles - despite the miles travelled, vegan diets *still* have a lower carbon footprint than eating some beef from just down the road. Don't forget the huge number of miles involved in producing grain for those animals to eat - and that food is also grown in ways that is damaging to wildlife and covered in pesticides. It is possible to eat entirely grass-fed beef to avoid the carbon footprint problems, but then the level of land-use required to produce those cows is not feasible at a large scale in the UK. [I know this isn't a thread about veganism - but it's this kind of nonsense and lies that really blows my mind]

And sure, Lewis Hamilton is a hypocrite - but is it not better to be a hypocrite that offsets some of their carbon footprint rather than one that just goes all-in on being bad?

 

[Gallop_Away]

The thing that always gets me on these threads is the way some people feel they have a right to ride horses. You don't. Riding a horse is a privilege of good fortune, finances and the kindness and tolerance of the horse. Horses don't owe us anything. Their only "job" (that is a term I hate) is to be a horse. We are lucky to be given the opportunity to sit on a horses back, it is not something you are entitled to do.

We have bred domesticated horses for centuries, and by doing so, we owe them safety, care and kindness. That is their right.

Whilst I completely agree with everything you say here sakura, as I said on the other thread, it is worth remembering that most of these horses would not exist were it not for equestrian sports.
Of course their welfare should come first, but the fact remains that were it not for equestrian sports, many horses would not be here today.

 

[sakura]

I'm not suggesting that all equestrian sports should be banned, I'm arguing for better welfare, greater public transparency and the way top sport horses are treated to largely change before we see more equestrian sports targeted.

 

[marmalade76]

Being vegan and entirely plant based seems to have also worked out pretty well for Scott Jurek:


You're not an extremist simply by being vegan or vegetarian. Most human bodies will cope absolutely fine without meat or animal products, some excel. There are entire tribes who do not eat meat or animal products and are also doing just fine.

Not said a word about vegetarians, IME vegetarians tend to get on with being vegetarian without spouting on about it.

 

[sakura]

Not said a word about vegetarians, IME vegetarians tend to get on with being vegetarian without spouting on about it.

You could just ignore them if you don't like what they're doing? I'm also not vegan, but I appreciate they're passionate about their cause and ignore any points I don't agree with.

However, as this thread is about racing, we should probably steer the conversation back on point.

 

[TPO]

Nick & Nate Diaz are UFC mma fighters (Nate was the first person to TKO that famous piece of garbage Conor McGregor) and are both black belts in ju-jitsu and are both vegan. They credit veganism with their fast recovery and overall health.

They also do iron man, triathlons, marathons, ultra marathons and cycling as well as the obvious ju-jitsu, boxing, wrestling, kick boxing, mauy Thai and working out (weights/cardio).

Seems to work for them!

 

[maisie06]

Its been proven time and time again that (most) humans can absolutely thrive on a plant based diet - if you want to be vegan, fine. If you want to eat meat thats also fine but I hate when people pretend that its impossible to survive without meat when they just dont want to feel guilty for not being vegan.

I'm not vegan, I don't feel guilty about it either!! I don't eat so much meat now because I'm fussy about how it's raised, I only buy British meat from trusted suppliers,I haven't eaten chicken in a very long time, I don't eat fish either because of over fishing and pollution concerns, I eat game frequently as I feel i had a better life and lamb, beef and pork from local farms who conserve rare breeds.

What I don't like is to be harrassed by vegan groups when I go shopping, this has happened a few times recently, if people want to stand and protest that's fine, their choice but to snatch meat away from people and block access to meat products, i;m sorry it puts me off listening to their cause.

 

[Honey08]

Not said a word about vegetarians, IME vegetarians tend to get on with being vegetarian without spouting on about it.

To be fair, I’ve not got any vegan friends that spout on about it. And I see a lot more people, like yourself, spouting on with anti vegan mantras. Particularly farmers. I don’t understand the need to attack vegans or people who actually have strong feelings. Do they feel threatened or something?

 

[Katieg123]

I'm not vegan, I don't feel guilty about it either!! I don't eat so much meat now because I'm fussy about how it's raised, I only buy British meat from trusted suppliers,I haven't eaten chicken in a very long time, I don't eat fish either because of over fishing and pollution concerns, I eat game frequently as I feel i had a better life and lamb, beef and pork from local farms who conserve rare breeds.

What I don't like is to be harrassed by vegan groups when I go shopping, this has happened a few times recently, if people want to stand and protest that's fine, their choice but to snatch meat away from people and block access to meat products, i;m sorry it puts me off listening to their cause.

As I said - I am fine with people eating meat, I am not vegan, I dont care if people feel guilty about eating meat or not but I do care when people preach about how humans cannot survive on a vegan diet because its simply not true.

 

[Katieg123]

To be fair, I’ve not got any vegan friends that spout on about it. And I see a lot more people, like yourself, spouting on with anti vegan mantras. Particularly farmers. I don’t understand the need to attack vegans or people who actually have strong feelings. Do they feel threatened or something?

Honestly I've seen so much more hate towards my friends that choose to be vegan over their diet than the other was around! So much trying to force meat on them and excessively trying to explain why eating meat is better for the environment/the animals/health (nothing ever backed up by science and usually with a great deal of manspaining involved). Sometimes it seems like madness when theyre just trying to eat in peace

 

[fetlock]

Gambling does not need racing. Gamblers will find other things to gamble on. Football already has more gambling spend, horseracing is second.

That’s online only I believe (and in the year the Euros were on, which may have contributed last year)

Other stats for the same period

SPORTS BETTING TURNOVER​

• Annual turnover of off course horse race betting in Great Britain3bn GBP
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Annual turnover of off course soccer betting in Great Britain1.34bn GBP
  
  
  
  
  

Topic: Sports betting in the UK

Discover all statistics and data on Sports betting in the UK now on statista.com!

www.statista.com

 

[tristar]

Whilst I completely agree with everything you say here sakura, as I said on the other thread, it is worth remembering that most of these horses would not exist were it not for equestrian sports.
Of course their welfare should come first, but the fact remains that were it not for equestrian sports, many horses would not be here today.

well, there are working horses and ponies don`t forget!

i have two tres sangres horses, welsh for going up and down mountains, fells, dales. highlands, andalusian lusos could be called a working horse, western horses, various light draught breeds, cob normand, lots do things, useful things.

most euro comp horses were bred from field work horses, as i`m sure you know, be interesting to have stats on the numbers kept for purposes other than comps and racing

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Honestly I've seen so much more hate towards my friends that choose to be vegan over their diet than the other was around! So much trying to force meat on them and excessively trying to explain why eating meat is better for the environment/the animals/health (nothing ever backed up by science and usually with a great deal of manspaining involved). Sometimes it seems like madness when theyre just trying to eat in peace

I am very much of the live and let live policy. Unless you wave it around in my face and demand I follow the same principles. Veggies don't spout it as much as vegans do to be fair. But I don't try to change their minds either.

 

[honetpot]

TBH I am more worried about the breeding of horses that are just bred to go fast, and little else, and unless it's needed for the gene pool, or it wins, its 'waste'.
Its a bit like F1, it's the glossy shiny advertisers dream, that the rich who often are the biggest supporters are could affect change, it is a bit like the RF, the Jockey Club projects an image of tradition, unchanging. I live near Newmarket so I have been to the sales, the museum, around of a lot of the trainers stables and some of the studs, my husband went to one stud where the stable fitting were gold-plated, and the stallion hub could home four families.

 

[toppedoff]

TBH I am more worried about the breeding of horses that are just bred to go fast, and little else, and unless it's needed for the gene pool, or it wins, its 'waste'.
Its a bit like F1, it's the glossy shiny advertisers dream, that the rich who often are the biggest supporters are could affect change, it is a bit like the RF, the Jockey Club projects an image of tradition, unchanging. I live near Newmarket so I have been to the sales, the museum, around of a lot of the trainers stables and some of the studs, my husband went to one stud where the stable fitting were gold-plated, and the stallion hub could home four families.

For the life of me I can't remember what country but I swear someone has a rule with tb being bred for race? I think it was based of winnings or something I can't remember I'm sure Elf or Game Bird may know.. I could be absolutely wrong and making it up lol! But I would like to see maybe a change into how TBs are bred

 

[GTRJazz]

I was watching the 1946 National on Pathe news there was over 3o fallers and no leg injuries this despite the much higher fences. One died of a broken neck unfortunately. You can clearly see the horses are not so fine. So for me the breeding needs to change. If they do that Racing still has a future

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

For the life of me I can't remember what country but I swear someone has a rule with tb being bred for race? I think it was based of winnings or something I can't remember I'm sure Elf or Game Bird may know.. I could be absolutely wrong and making it up lol! But I would like to see maybe a change into how TBs are bred

Germany have the licencing system for both mares and stallions. They have to prove themselves on the track as well as have good conformation.

France have AQPS horses which aren't 100% tb. They add in Selle Francais. Over here you can cross anything you like with a tb, cross the offspring with a tb etc etc and you can race the final progeny when you get to 7/8 tb. That last 8th could be a shetland, a shire or anything in between.

 

[toppedoff]

Germany have the licencing system for both mares and stallions. They have to prove themselves on the track as well as have good conformation.

France have AQPS horses which aren't 100% tb. They add in Selle Francais. Over here you can cross anything you like with a tb, cross the offspring with a tb etc etc and you can race the final progeny when you get to 7/8 tb. That last 8th could be a shetland, a shire or anything in between.

That's really interesting, thank you Elf. Also didn't know that tbs can be crossed with anything, thought they had to be pure!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

That's really interesting, thank you Elf. Also didn't know that tbs can be crossed with anything, thought they had to be pure!

Nah so long as you keep going back to a tb until you are 7/8 your grand. They go on the Non-TB register with Wetherby's. Pure bred through and through have their own section.

 

[ycbm]

Whilst I completely agree with everything you say here sakura, as I said on the other thread, it is worth remembering that most of these horses would not exist were it not for equestrian sports.
Of course their welfare should come first, but the fact remains that were it not for equestrian sports, many horses would not be here today.

I'm not sure how that matters? A horse that’s never born doesn't know it could ever have been alive.
.

 

[ycbm]

Nah so long as you keep going back to a tb until you are 7/8 your grand. They go on the Non-TB register with Wetherby's. Pure bred through and through have their own section.

I thought flat racers had to be pure TB unless it's an NH flat race?
.