Poll - How many people use flashes / martingales etc. for no reason?!

Which One?

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When I first got my mare I spent some months in a flash and running martingale as that is what her last owner used but when I started doing dressage with her I quit using the martingale then quit with the flash. Have recently started using a flash again as she is crossing her jaw a bit so am seeing if this helps.
 
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Martingales, flash nosebands....is our riding and relationship with our horses really so bad we need them?

Needing these is a sign that soemthing else is wrong on the relationship and behaviour front . I own an ex racer who bolted and reared and worse - but gadgets were not the answer - they only made things worse for the horse.

Since many horses are claustrophobic by nature - what good will using a flash noseband do? Only make it worse for them. You try exercising hard with your head pulled in towards your chest, unable to open your mouth and flex your jaws....you probably wouldn;t find that comfortable, and neither does your horse.

I suppose that gadgets can always compensate for lack of skill, awareness and empathy.... (tin hat on, incoming...
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Well, on the other side of the story, putting a metal (or otherwise) bit in a horses mouth isnt natural either. To get the horse to accept the bit and flex naturally at the poll, we have to exert a small amount of pressure to show the horse what we want. (obviouly going hand in hand with it working actively over its back from its hind legs etc)

Now alot of horses natural reaction, regardless of how well the bit is suited etc (which obviously should be a HUGE Part of the overall picture), will be to open their mouths, and move into the pressure= a higher head carriage, lack of engagement and therefore a horse which will never muscle up correctly.

If a flash is put on, then less pressure would have to be exerted, as the horse wont open its mouth to resist it, and so the horse will find its "release" quicker.....

I'm not an advocate of "gadgets" but do believe some, when used correctly (eg not strapping its mouth so tightly shut if cant adjust its jaw, and therefore correctly flex at the poll) have got their place.
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Excuse Me.

When the horse gets it tongue over the bit - What else are you supposed to do.



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Check the horses mouth conformation and see that the bit is suitable. You then dont need to try millions of bits but yes, you do have to be arsed to try one or two, to see if it makes you horse more comfortable so it doesnt feel the need to put its tongue over the bit.

Using a flash treats the symptom, not the cause.
 
Honestly, when you talk such sh*te you should expect incoming.

I have no particular preference for any gadget, bit, noseband or martingale. Keep it simple and use whatever suits the horse.

Current horse has a flash and running martingale for jumping or fast work, though I have an issue with flashes done up tight or in fact nosebands done up tight & hate to feel a noseband strap tight over the poll - which is common.

I really think that the array of bitting & martingale combinations you see our 'best' (rather than just talking uninformed crap on a forum) riders use, clearly shows that horses are all individuals and that you should be prepared to bit them as well as ride them which ever way suits them.
 
I compete my Andalusian in all disciplines with a cavesson, myler comfort snaffle, no martingale or gadget of any description. He doesnt wear boots for any discipline either. I'm not a barefoot groupie at all but I took his shoes off in Feb and immediately noticed he moved much better. He gets checked by the farrier every 6 weeks but hasnt been touched since February this year. His feet are perfect. The moral of the story is "Keep it Simple"
 
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Martingales, flash nosebands....is our riding and relationship with our horses really so bad we need them?

Needing these is a sign that soemthing else is wrong on the relationship and behaviour front . I own an ex racer who bolted and reared and worse - but gadgets were not the answer - they only made things worse for the horse.

Since many horses are claustrophobic by nature - what good will using a flash noseband do? Only make it worse for them. You try exercising hard with your head pulled in towards your chest, unable to open your mouth and flex your jaws....you probably wouldn;t find that comfortable, and neither does your horse.

I suppose that gadgets can always compensate for lack of skill, awareness and empathy.... (tin hat on, incoming...
wink.gif
)

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^^ another carrot stick owner!!

Since when has a martingale pulled a horses head into their chest, my horse works lovely on the flat, but i wear a flash and a martingale when hacking as he can be very excitable and tends to throw his head and a open his mouth, so without them I dont not have much control when he has his moments!! but 95% of the time I dont need them.

No matter how well your horse has been schooled, theres not mauch you can do when they spook or get excited!!
 
Ella came to me in a grackle and no martingale. i changed the grackle for a cavesson (well, a flash with the flash strap removed- why is it so hard to find a cheap plain cavesson noseband?). This was partly because she didn't actually NEED the grackle- we's well-behaved and i have good control, but also because i am such a numpty I couldn't put the stupid thing on her properly

I put the running martingale on because she had dreadful giraffe neck when she came to me and i am allergic to having ears up my nose!
 
I ride mine in nothing more than a cavesson and a loose ring snaffle and I am lucky he goes well and does not need anything more. I did have a flash on him for a short while but he started to head shake so I took it off. I have been known to ride without a noseband on very bright days as his UV/fly mask fits better without it and having that on is more important for him. My instructor will only use gadgets as a last resort so has never told me to use anything more. Unfortunatley when I want to buy a new bridle it becomes a problem as it seems to be really difficult to buy one with a cavesson noseband in my local tack shop.
 
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Does that mean I'm a skilled, aware and empathic rider?


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Congratulations

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Thanks
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first time for everything and all that!!

Its a huge rash generalisation to say people who ride with either (or both) of those things have no skill, awareness or empathy - SOME might not, but not all..
 
There is a huge difference between just sticking any gadget on for the sake of it instead of schooling the horse to go correctly and using it in an educated, appropriate way as a last resort to deal with a problem that schooling has failed to deal with.

As I said earlier my horse's problem was created by somebody else, and despite a huge effort on my part and lots of lessons with very experienced and sympathetic instructors over 5 years I haven't been able to correct it. I have never used a flash on another horse and I do keep trying every so often without the flash. Could somebody tell me how I teach my horse to keep his mouth shut please? I have had everything checked to make sure he is not in discomfort or pain first and I have good hands and have managed to deal with a lot of his other mouth issues (leaning, tongue over bit etc) Without a flash I have no brakes. I'd rather a gadget as a last resort when all else has failed than a dangerous out of control horse.
 
I use a plain cavesson on both mine, Millie doesn't need a flash but Charlie does, can't use one on him though as it makes him rear (so safer without (just have to put up with him opening his gob, crossing his jaw and getting his tounge over the bit
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As for Martingales I have always used one on Charlie, he gets to strong without one and goes round like a giraffe. For schooling I take it off.

Millie has only just started wearing a martingale and even though she goes much better with one on I would still rather she didn't need it, we only use it for hacking, jumping and will use it for Hunting if she takes to it. We take it off when schooling her.
 
At home all my horses work/hack/jump/fast work without a martingale, however when competing I always wear one attached to the breastplate, it may not be needed, how ever I have it very loose and is there if required.
I often use a flash, however I will remove it if the horse will go better in it, both the mares would have a lovely tendency to cross jaws evade and b**ger off without though.
 
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Have tried mine with a martingale after reading i think Katb's post in cr about her new girl i took it off her and she's better for it (so thank you
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Use the grakle for jumping as she likes to cross her jaw run away and flatten so the grakle helps to keep her lighter and more in my hand rather than on it!!! And i'll use the flash for dressage as I cant use the grakle, but it only needs to be loose if its to tight she'll flid
 
"Using a flash treats the symptom, not the cause."

Well said.

If the horse is crossing its jaws - or opening its mouth, or putting its tongue over the bit - there is a reason for it and that's what you should address, not strap the mouth shut.

Experience? Been riding for 40+ years, all kinds of horses, all disciplines, which is why I question the use of these gadgets. Just one of the growing band of folks who are starting to question such things and wonder whether they are a desirable shortcut...
 
I ride my horse in a cavasson and no martingale. He is very strong but does not put his head up and although he does open his mouth at times, the person I bought him from said that he fights a flash, she is an event rider and I respect her opinion. I do own and have used flashes, grackles, martingales (standing and running) on horses I feel need them. What I hate to see is horses strapped up in things they obviously don't need.
Anyway, the less tack you have on a horse, the less there is to clean!
 
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There is a huge difference between just sticking any gadget on for the sake of it instead of schooling the horse to go correctly and using it in an educated, appropriate way as a last resort to deal with a problem that schooling has failed to deal with.

As I said earlier my horse's problem was created by somebody else, and despite a huge effort on my part and lots of lessons with very experienced and sympathetic instructors over 5 years I haven't been able to correct it. I have never used a flash on another horse and I do keep trying every so often without the flash. Could somebody tell me how I teach my horse to keep his mouth shut please? I have had everything checked to make sure he is not in discomfort or pain first and I have good hands and have managed to deal with a lot of his other mouth issues (leaning, tongue over bit etc) Without a flash I have no brakes. I'd rather a gadget as a last resort when all else has failed than a dangerous out of control horse.

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Unfortunately annagain you are in the minority IMO. You are quite right, they have their place but unfortunately too many people reach for them as a short cut or because they have a lack of knowledge or in many cases because they cant be bothered or are ignorant of the cause.

If you have exhausted every avenue then by all means use them but as SMID says, [ QUOTE ]
If the horse is crossing its jaws - or opening its mouth, or putting its tongue over the bit - there is a reason for it and that's what you should address, not strap the mouth shut.

[/ QUOTE ] Annagain, you have tried to address the reason but many people dont.

I say this about a lot of things but you dont see a horse in the field going along with its jaw crossed or its mouth wide open. So why does it do it when tacked up and ridden? It is a man made problem.
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"Could somebody tell me how I teach my horse to keep his mouth shut please? "

Really this is the wrong question - the question is really why does your horse open his mouth or cross his jaws??

Tension in the jaw due to head being held, lack of space at his Atlas to be able to drop his head, frustration, bitting problem, noseband too tight, not enough room for his tongue....lots of things it could be. Once you work out what is is, then you can work on the solution.
 
Haha I generally ride all my horses in a plain caverson noseband, no martingale and usually a simple snaffle. I am using a flash on my ex-racer, but only as he opens his mouth and tries to get him tongue over the bit, have tried without and he is successful in his attempts and not much fun!! If I can ditch it in future then I will.
 
I ride robbie in a flash, he came with one but i did try without and he never went as nice so i put it back on and i ride with martingale because he chucks his head around like an idiot at the moment, when he has calmed down a bit with it ill take it off again
 
i actually agree a lot with SMID and i'm not a carrot stick holder!

my youngsters are all in snaffles, plain nosebands and no martingales.

they have been taught the correct way to do things with patience and repetition.

my 5yro was with a pro rider recently who put a flash and martingale on her as she was throwing her head around show jumping.
when she came home we worked on jumping steadily, she realised it wasn't so stressful my way and her head carriage is lovely now when jumping (if anything a little low!).
not saying i am a better rider than the pro; i guess she was too busy to have 3 or 4 jumping sessions with just crosspoles but i have the time to go a bit slower.

95% of people who use gadgets put them on with no thought as to WHY the horse is opening its mouth/ throwing its head.

my older horse is in a flash and martingale for jumping but it is going to get worked on a lot this winter- i am not expecting much success as he is 15 but i will at least try!
 
I think everyone has a reason, now whether you agree with their reason is another matter.
My little lad is better at cantering with a flash on but can also fight against it so it's use occasionally, might also have to be used in competitions for a while.
Martingale goes on and off as when he goes through head flinging phases.
Mind you I am evil and also hack out in a pelham.
 
Since I have never owned a martingale, flash or drop I guess that means I am not overly interested or influenced by them lol

I think the last bridle I purchased came with a flash (It was the only way to buy it) so I cut off the loop on the noseband and hey presto it became a good old cavesson.
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I use a combination of all those nosebands for my horses!

Mare has a drop for pure Dr, she doesn't seem to like the flash as such and is more relaxed in the drop for Eventing - all phases she has a grackle as she goes best in that but I can't use it for pure Dr.

Gelding has a cavesson for flatwork and a flash for jumping, the flash makes little difference for flatwork so there seemed no point in using it but jumping he seems slightly better in it.

Martingales the mare wears a running when jumping as, although she can go overbent, she has a nasty habit of flicking her head up and having a great big strop. The gelding wears a standing as he dislikes pressure on the mouth and a tight running martingale constantly pulled on the rein and also interfered with my contact. Whereas the standing has little effect until he really throws his head up but otherwise it just stays there with no effect.

These have been a combination of friend's suggestions, instructors suggestions and how I feel they go in each item.
 
Thanks millitiger

I've watched so many horses over the years in various gadgets - many of which are used by riders trying to solve a very real problem, accepting the conventional wisdom and conventional answers - but not addressing the underlying issues in the first place so it is at best a sticking plaster and at worst an explosion waiting to happen.

I have watched people ride horses in flashes who are really doing their best to communicate distress and discomfort - and when I have asked them to take the flash off the horse has been better behaved and then the real cause of the problem becomes apparent.

I am actually a carrot stick holder hee-hee - but not naieve enough to believe that any of these systems have the monopoly on the Truth. You have to do what you feel is right and importantly what keeps you safe.
 
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ive just purchased and exracer, shes been off the track 6 weeks now, shes allways been ridden in a flash, whilst shes been with me ive tried taking it off for short periods of time to get her working like that, however with out it she has a habit of putting her tongue over the bit

[/ QUOTE ] maybe look at changing the bit/Work out why she puts her tongue over the bit?
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I don't know if she is still doing them - but Hillary Vernon of the BitBank had lots of good information abotu bitting options adn finding theright bit for the shape o fthe horse's mouth and tongue - I went (with horse) to one of her clinics a few years back and it was very informative.

http://www.themylerbitbank.co.uk/

I found the myler bits quite useful. Expensive, but very well made.

Don't use bits or bridles now though - no headshaking, no mouth opening or jaw crossing, no tantrums, no bolting, rearing or bucking, no resistance, natural movement....
 
I have had my horse for 3 years now and have only just taken his flash off and I wish I had done it ages ago!! He has always been a very backward horse, ridden in draw reins alot before I had him and he wouldn't go forwards. Took flash off and now different horse!! Even got 70.4 % in first novice dress class without it!! (usually score 65%ish)!. He also suffers from a seasonal disorder and I now wonder if the flash was putting unecessary pressure on his sensitive nose. Always rode in breast plate martingale as well as he can be a bit lively but only use the breast plate bit for shows now, as a handle incase he gets excited!!
 
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