Pony bit my face today....

I am by no means an advocate of rough handling but for goodness sake - those posters who claim giving it a smack for biting is abuse.... have you ever come across a bolshy horse? I've seen so many horses and ponies on the yard become bargy or nappy or just plain bad mannered, all because the owners are letting them get away with it.

Watch a group of horses interact. Do they put up with rudeness and violence? No. A mare teaches her foal how to behave, and we need to teach our horses what we expect too. I would certainly give her a short sharp slap across the neck along with a good "No!". Regardless of the health excuses, they need to know what is acceptable and what is not.

What I would class as "abuse" however, is prolonged or delayed punishment where there is no connection with the original misdemeanour. Plus those awful people who seem to crop up at every show who batter their poor horse for knocking down a pole or otherwise "showing them up" somehow. THAT is abuse.....
 
Kadastorm said:
It makes me laugh how people always come up with 'ulcers' or some other medical problem expecting the person to pay out a load of money investigating when in actual fact its probably behavioural.

Give the pony a good whack if it comes at you again. Scare it off and turn away.

It is not acceptable for her to do something like that, i really feel for you. But i would take a very firm approach as many others have said. I hope it works out and you arent feeling too sore today!
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I agree!
Nice to see those who are anti 'whacking naughty ponies' come up with a safe ''there-there'' solution!! Would you not be nervous about getting a vet out if the pony is in a killer mood... the vet may get hurt? What if they sue? Could escalate out of control. (that is taken as tongue in cheek by the way, but COULD have an element of truth?)
 
Many people agree that "violence begets violence" and that a horse should never be hit.

However, I think this was an extreme attack. I had a grumpy mare and she did try to bite and kick when being handled (and in the field but I will come to that) but she never went for me with teeth, bit me in the face and knocked me down and 10 feet away with such a violent attack. There you were, peacefully picking up poos in her field, and she was the agressor - you weren't doing anything to her, handling her, or interacting in any way. If I were you I would take it very seriously. Yes, if you like, rule out veterinary problems, but after that I think it is an issue for an experienced person to sort, not if you haven't had any dealings with a pony like this before. It is after all a PONY for a child.

My mare used to back up to me inthe field and threaten to kick. Being non violent I shouted at her, jumped up and down, clapped my hands, etc. etc. One day, like you, I was poo picking and she backed up to me and I lost my temper and threw a rubber feed bowl at her quarters quite hard and she shot off. I had to do this twice more and then she never, ever tried it again with me,although she once turned her back on a stranger when they were looking at her over the field gate.

I think she was being possesive of her field and her pony companion and she was testing the water as to who was the strongest personality and what the boundaries were. I also had a pony that had been spoiled through bad handling, she would try to kick when being groomed and was a right little madam. But I think SHE was doing it for entertainment, having been a top competition pony and bought by some novice owners who she ran rings round. I am afraid that my response was to kick her back if she tried to kick me and be very strong on the discipline for the first week and she became a charming pony, as she then knew where she was.

I wouldn't try to cure your biting pony unless I had advice from someone who had dealt with this before, and I would go for an Intelligent Horsemanship person. This is going to mean quite a lot of work on your behalf and a certain amount of expense. Just how much do you want to spend? There are lots of nice ponies around looking for homes. How fond of this pony are you?

Hope you feel better soon. What a nasty injury and shock.
 
Make sure you wear your hat at all times too!

Thinking on I have a very well behaved cob as I said he often has the odd mad moment, but I usually sort of know when ie windy day...just full of beans etc

He can be a bit colty(23yrs) lets have some fun behaviour and as MOTHER leader I cannot afford for him when he comes at a fly by and kicks out at me in a playful manner(this is very rare ) whilst I am poo picking. Completely unacceptable to me his leader that I will wack him with whatever I have and it stops straight away. I most certainly wouldnt hesitate to give your horse a wack ie lunge whip/shovel with a big NO. But I agree with what someone else said it has to be done at that moment in time ..not later.

All I can say is he doesnt hold it against me and completely disagree with violence breeds violence??ur?? 99% of the time we get on good as gold fine, and he is a good boy. Mutual respect. If you watch horses in herds they do fight, mares will keep their youngsters in checkwith biting etc and there is a hierachy. Sometimes they need a reminder.My dope on a rope needs it rarely.

I hope you are ok sounds nasty. Hope all this advice is reasurring and helps you reach your decision. Some people can sort problem horses out some cannot be sorted.
 
The_Hooligan said:
once again foxhunter has advised abuse to deal with a problem, please ignore her/him.
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I am NOT advocating abuse - I am advocating that the pony is treated as it would be in a herd situation.
A lead mare does not mess around (as this pony isn't) If a young horse does something untoward the mare will threaten with ears back and body posture. If the youngster continues then it is chased, bitten and kicked with no punches pulled.

I have had many horses brought to me as being unmanageable, unbreakable, mean, kicks, won't let you in the stable without threatening, pulls and walks through you and so on. All that was needed was firm, fair handling. Tight boundaries to start and these are extended as the horse complies.

I am the same with the dogs, firm, fair, fun. I have a mixture of dogs here, people come with their dogs and all get along because I take leadership, watch for signals of trouble and correct before anything happens. It is not a matter of using 'abuse' it is a matter of being able to read the signals, of knowing how an animal reacts to another in certain situations. I do NOT advocate beating any animal up, but when it comes to an animal or me then I will look after my safety and if that means hitting them with something I will do it and they will feel it, just as they will feel a punishment from another horse.

If that is abuse then I will continue to abuse the unruly animal. What is odd is that these animals, horses and dogs and children all seem to congregate around me.
 
Good god do some of these "bunny huggers" not realise what happens in a herd of horses? foxhunter what you say makes 100% sense, the horse at the moment is well in charge of the human and TBH even a pony as demonstrated here can be extremely dangerous. OP I do hope you are not badly hurt :( The scales need to be reversed pretty damn quick with this pony so it realises it is no longer in charge but the OP is!
I'm no pony beater but if mine or Sis's oversteps the mark then they get a slap to remind them I'm in charge not them! And you know what they both still love me loads and certainly don't hold it against me at all (Sis is the same as well "if they act like a thug treat them like a thug :rolleyes:") You really need to get some boundaries and authority sorted now or TBH the future of the pony looks very bleak.
Oh and just a footnote someone I know never reprimands her horses physically and always has control and issues with whatever horse she has, funny that ;)
 
jemima_too said:
Better to have the pony headshy than a child with severe facial bite wounds don't you think?
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It doesn't have to be either or!

It sounds like she is trying to dominate you- as she would another horse. Although undesirable it is normal behaviour for a more dominant horse to bite/chase another if they want it out of their space. And she is young and relatively new. Watch how horses create a pecking order. They sometimes use a subtle 'clear off' but if it doesnt work then they also will go strongly at another.

You dont need to beat her up but you need to use language she respects and is she doesnt respond, increase the communication until she does. Timing and correct response to the situation is vital.
 
I'm firmly with foxhunter on this one.


How is giving an open handed slap abuse? How is one slap going to create a head shy horse?

Saying there there to a horse who is pushing the boundaries is going to cause more problems in the long run than dealing with it with a short sharp shock IMO
 
Whilst I agree this pony needs putting in its place. I'm worried it has also gone too far now in that when you first stand up to it, it is VERY likely to be even more aggressive at least to start with.
The fact that pony is also unpredictable is not good.

Honestly I would be likely to PTS, without tests!

I have had horses that were in pain and NEVER have they attacked me so pain is no excuse and as this one came at you in a field without you doing anything it is unlikely to be the full reason.


What just may help is to put a more dominant horse in the field with her, someone to show her her place! I know this works with bolshy horses but whether this has gone to far I don't know
 
The pony is a rescue. You dont know what has happened in the past. If you start hitting it around the head and it really attacks you what then? yes horses can be rough with each other we all know that, be we are not horses!

That pony could have anything wrong with it ie hormone probs, problems with overies, even something like a brain tumor. You need to be sure there is nothing wrong with it and then decide what to do.

Hitting it round the head is no answer to anything. by the way I am not a bunny hugger. Have had horses for over thirty years including a pony who was aggressive and turned out to have ovarian cysts.
 
Pony doesn't need to be PTS now TBH, needs someone experienced to come and teach it that it is not in charge (and I make not apologies for calling it and it at the moment!) who is prepared to take what it throws at it. If after this the pony is still acting like this and does not accept humans being higher in the chain than it then yes you should conside PTS.
Problem with putting a more dominant horse in with it is the risk of either both getting injured especially if shod!
ETS: You do not necessarily have to smack the horse over the head anywhere will suffice, just to get the message over very clearly that its behaviour is NOT acceptable!
 
I agree with the smacking the pony, If it were to lunge at another horse, the other horse would not stop and search to see if the pony is ill, it would be kicked/bitten back into a place in the herd!
 
itsmylife said:
If you start hitting it around the head and it really attacks you what then? yes horses can be rough with each other we all know that, be we are not horses!
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No, we are not horses; we are much smaller, much weaker and potentially much more vulnerable. It is wrong to hit a frightened or distressed horse but lunging at you and biting you in the face for no reason is just plain nasty. Another horse would have put her in her place - equally the owner should as well.
 
Dear OP,

In this situation, I would advise that you call in a professional who knows what they are doing. Unfortunately on this forum, some have not got a clue, and it all leads to insults, abuse and bannings, so it's really not the best place to get your advice.

If I have a problem, I ask my instructor, if she cannot help, I call my cousin who is very high up in the horse world, and he will advise me further.

Hate to say it, but although you CAN get fair advice here, too many of them are stuck up their own arses with an attitude of 'I know best'....and you will be running around in circles.

Good luck!
 
To be honest i would have given her a slap too, straight away.

Do you think that she is a ''rescue'' because someone has allowed her to behave like this for too long and it had gotout of hand?

I dont think it is abuse at all, and i'd wonder how all the 'violence breeds violence' parade would handle the horse, as not one of them have given any kind of advice yet?
 
Actually I have given advice. Can only hope that some of the people advocating hitting it round the head are around to help the op if the pony turns round and flattens her after shes tried your advice!
Any way Im off now. Good luck with the pony op what ever you decide.
 
Why is it that as soon as a pony does something vile it is "call the vet,ulcers/back/teeth"? This little git is probably in season,non the less in a herd she`d get a good sorting out.
As a child I learnt to ride on a 12.2 hh git like this;one day I went to catch her with the bridle instead of a head collar(stupid ,but I was only eight)She looked..and flew accross the paddock at me with her jaws wide open! Obviously the snaffle came in handy to belt her accross her nose to defend myself.She was a plain nasty pony with an unlovable nature,who taught me mostly the bad things.One end bites,the other end kicks and the middle bit will squash you in the stall if it gets a chance.
One of the other ponies was sweetness itself,so fortunately I learnt how nice ponies can be.It has always ,since then,been my motto to never own one such as the vile black thing called Zulu.It is my belief she got that name for eating small girls,oh..and her absolute fav trick was to blow up with wind as a small person did up the girth,wait until the victim was doing it`s three little hops to get on..breathe out and bite said bottom hard.
Ponies like that should never be around children ,this one sounds the same,put it in a tin.
 
Get it vet checked-blood test (she sounds like she may have an ovarian tumour potentially causing stallion like behaviour), check for pregnancy (very possible!) and a full work up of her 'sensitive' areas, fi that includes scope for ulcers so be it.
Then if all is clear, she needs to be dealt with in a strong manner I'm afraid. If this means taking a stick in with you and as soon as she starts trying to nip, gtiving her a smack, so be it. (you can also use a blue pipe but if she is that aggressive she may not respond to that?). This is not acceptable behaviour. She may have reason for it but it must stop now. WEar a hat at all times when working with her. Do lots and lots of groundwork where she has to mve when you ask her to and nipping etc. is nipped in the bud.
 
The_Hooligan said:
once again foxhunter has advised abuse to deal with a problem, please ignore her/him.
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I dont agree with this comment alot of horses need leadership and they are for too strong to be allowed to push people about! My horse used to bite me so i tried all the nicey nicey approaches ie pushing away saying no in a loud voice - and the results she just carried on - thena short sharpslap on he neck ( not her face) and a loud shout got the job done!:)
 
Hi Mog,

Have thought long and hard before replying......but here goes....

First of all...I STRONGLY believe it is nothing to do with you....

My biggest worry would be the on/off switch your pony appears to have.
Regardless of any of the good suggestions that have been posted one here you can NEVER be in control of that.
There are various types of behaviour with brain tumours...had a horse with one...he was non agressive....but definitely had the on/off switch.
I am not suggesting this is what is wrong with your poor mare......but I really feel that the safety of all around this unfortunate horse MUST take precident. A horse on the attack is more than capable of killing anything. Also, if a horse attacks seriously and locks it's jaws around your arm....it will rip the arm from your body rather than let go.

If you are able financially to 'cut your losses' then may be send her to someone like Richard Maxwell or a behaviouralist who are more able to work with this kind of problem. But in all honestly....this is not a pony you need back.

There are too many nice ponies out there for your children to love.....and it is becoming increaslingly clear that this is not one of them.

Best of luck.
Bryndu
 
Scratch the surface and all equines can be wild. Their adrenaline levels can match ours in an instant. Remember the kid who got kicked by the Forester? Yet I see people draped over the ponies in Burley all the time.

OP I think you were on the right lines when you moved her with the wheelbarrow but then you went in for a nuzzle. I assume she's safe to be caught? What I would do is take a rope and headcollar with you when poo picking. Don't carry treats. Put halter on and back her up. Disengage back end from the left side and the right ie; swing rope at quarters either side, (not too hard she might tank). All you're doing is moving her feet and you have her head under control. Be matter-of-fact, some of them don't like being cuddled. They just don't get the affection thing. One pat and let her go.
 
For now, the first thing I'd do is buy it a grazing muzzle, and keep that on it at all times while you're getting this sorted. It can't bite you or anyone else through a muzzle, but can eat and drink. Your safety, and that of other humans, must come first. With access to enough grass they maintain weight happily with them on, and you can make the hole at the bottom a bit bigger so they can eat more easily but still not bite you.

Then I'd get it checked for ulcers etc like you're doing.

After it's got the medical all-clear, I'd then send it away to a pro who knows what they're doing, just for a few weeks. While it's there, go and work with them, see what they're doing, and take advice from them on how to handle the pony. A professional will have sufficient experience of naughty ponies to be able to tell you if this one will come safe and ok for children, or remain dangerous. You have then done all you can, and can make your decision.

To add to that, ulcers or hormones or whatever, you MUST punish biting or the threat to do so, within a second or two so they link the punishment to the behaviour. How you effect that punishment is up to you, but they need to learn it's not acceptable.
 
horse bites are not fun-I still have a scar on my arm where a mare lunged at me from over her stable door, bit me through several layers of clothing when I was 16 (now 41)-on your face must be incredibly sore.


I'm no advocate for thrashing horses, but I will thump one that bites me-all of mine I got as colts/just gelded and none of them have bitten me twice.

attacking you like this is not normal, it's not even normal misbehaving in my book.she may/may not be in pain but we can only guess what the problem is without seeing her in action. If you don't have the timing/knowledge to sort her out, trying to might make it worse and you risk getting hurt. so, get help from a professional-stop all 'fuss'-be fair and in charge but don't fuss (fwiw, I've known 3 horses that didnt 'do' fuss but all 3 ended up being diagnosed with something, chronic pain can make you grouchy). This is not a kids pony-not all ponies are and nor should we expect them to be.
 
First of all, thanks for all the replies. I've a smashing black eye this morning, a sore, bruised jaw and a few other knocks and grazes that made their presence felt overnight, but all in all it could have been a lot worse. So hard to get everything down in words about her behaviour so there are bits i missed from my original post, sorry

A bit about Belle's (or Gnasher as she's now called) history. She wasnt a rescue, sis bought her from someone who turned out to be a dealer & had only had her 3 weeks. We contacted the owners they got her from and they told us they'd had her from being a foal, she was much loved but wasnt making the size their daughter wanted. They have assured sis she wasnt mistreated nor had she shown any aggression or behaviour problems, tho i do have to wonder why they accepted less than half the asking price from someone who turned up at 7pm in Sept with a trailer, gave her a quick look over and took her there and then...

It really is as if a switch flicks in her head. Sometimes she'll try it on and a 'bite' back or a smack with the hand will work. Sometimes she can be driven off if she tries it on in the field. She has been bathed and clipped (by us) and been totally chilled about it, not a murmur from her. Sometimes she will stand and be groomed and fall asleep during it.

Without ever beating her up or being what i would class as violent (and i dont think anyone on here in giving me advice has advocated either of those), we've tried slaps, shouts, chasing her off (if shes loose), a thump to the body if she's swinging round. None of them make any difference once that 'switch' has flicked, she will come back again and again and tbh i simply cant move fast enough sometimes.

I have discovered tho that she does have respect for water in a sports bottle so that's usually in my pocket or nearby if she's being handled. Yesterday it wasnt. she caught me unawares and with the violence of the attack. Apparently Belle lunged at my other sister last week and almost got her face. Luckily that sister was stroking her over the fence so was able to jump back and the fence stopped Belle getting closer.

She's fine to be caught, so this morning she was tied up whilst i poo picked etc. i went armed with the water bottle tho it wasnt needed thankfully. From now on no one other than me or my sis is allowed in the field, near the fence or to handle or touch her, and we'll go armed with the bottle. She will still get kind words & greetings, maybe one pat if she's does as asked. she doesnt get treats from the hand and never has with us. But our own safety will be paramount until she leaves us in one way or the other.

Ultimately tho she isnt my pony. She belongs to my sister and her fate is in her hands. She has said today that she is going to try sell her on as a 'project', being totally upfront and honest about her. If she cant sell her she will have her PTS. I personally think PTS is the safer, kinder option, sad tho it is. i dont hate the pony, and i personally would feel happier knowing that shes not going to hurt anyone else, nor is she gonna be potentially passed from pillar to post ending up god knows where and being treated cruelly in response to her behaviour. If my dog bit someone, or me, in the face i would have him PTS much as i love him.

Thanks again for the kind words and all the advice. I will let you know what happens
 
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Dear dear Mogg. She sounds like more of an handful than certainly I, first thought. No more advice now as she has clearly had a smack and not mattered one whit to her. I'd suggests checks and depending on outcome sell to a competant, confident home or put her down.
 
I'm so sorry that this has happened to you, I do hope that you haven't suffered too much deep bruising/skin damage.

I have read all of the replies and have been in two minds whether to write a reply or not. The only thing that I would like to say is; this mare was in 'attack' biting mode, this is a COMPLETELY different ball game to a normal bite or a playful nip. I would like to think that only relatively few people have suffered this kind of attack personally.

I have been involved in my family's stud and training yard for 20 years and my own for the past 10, I've had more than my fair share of bites during these years, mainly from youngsters and the odd mare, not stallions.

I am firm but fair from day one but they will get a sharp smack across the side of the muzzle if they actually touch me with their teeth, a very firm NO if they just have a swipe at me. Youngsters will test boundaries and they do need these to be a constant and clear, with a smack only if absolutely necessary. Honestly, some of the stuff the brood mares deal out to the younger fillies is nothing in comparison. Only the other day, I went into the broodmare's field to witness my 10yo mare slowly suffocating my 2 yo filly by biting hard on her windpipe and holding her for at least 30 seconds, the filly was on her knees and was struggling to breathe comfortably by the time the mare decided she had learnt her lesson. This particular filly is a downright pain, she is pushy, overbearing and winds everyone up relentlessly. I have no problems with her, had to be very firm from the start but if I relax my standards even slightly (she is on a different handling level to any of my others) she will play up, I'm being polite!

I have honestly never had a headshy horse or pony despite the fact that I am not afraid of giving a correctly timed smack when absolutely necessary. I am 4' 11" and weigh 8st, bad manners and nasty behaviour are simply not acceptable, I much prefer to nip it in the bud.

Get her checked over and then make the necessary decision based on all of the facts that you'll have at that time. Do check for pregnancy though as they can get very 'touchy' :rolleyes:

Best of luck with her and I do hope that you manage to get to the root of it, wear a hat and a body protector too if she's inclined to turn her back end and double barrel. Is there any chance that she can be in a field with a more dominant mare?

Also make sure that someone knows when you're in the field with her, just in case.
 
Nudibranch said:
I am by no means an advocate of rough handling but for goodness sake - those posters who claim giving it a smack for biting is abuse.... have you ever come across a bolshy horse? I've seen so many horses and ponies on the yard become bargy or nappy or just plain bad mannered, all because the owners are letting them get away with it.

Watch a group of horses interact. Do they put up with rudeness and violence? No. A mare teaches her foal how to behave, and we need to teach our horses what we expect too. I would certainly give her a short sharp slap across the neck along with a good "No!". Regardless of the health excuses, they need to know what is acceptable and what is not.

What I would class as "abuse" however, is prolonged or delayed punishment where there is no connection with the original misdemeanour. Plus those awful people who seem to crop up at every show who batter their poor horse for knocking down a pole or otherwise "showing them up" somehow. THAT is abuse.....
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Common sense, this!
Foxhunter is also right. That mare needs to learn that she cannot come into your personal space, especially not with teeth bared. I hope you soon feel better and heal up well.
 
Mogg, having read your further post I agree with you. PTS would seem to be the safest option I'm afraid and sooner rather than later.

I've had my share of messed up rescue ponies. My adored Welsh will attack if he feels threatened, but you have to have totally misread his signs for that to happen. This pony seems to attack with little or no provocation and that makes her a very dangerous animal. I'd say well done to your perseverance with her but NOW is the time to call it a day without putting anyone else at risk.

So sorry for you.
 
I would say be very careful. Many years ago I bought a 4 y.o. 13.2 to bring on (cheap!) which turned out to be 100% unreliable temperamentally. After I and a friend were attacked by him (teeth hooves - defended ourselves, but he wouldn't give in) I had him PTS as I couldn't in all conscience ever let him do that to a child. As someone else has said, there are hundreds of safe ponies around. Also, not to be alarmist, but I remember a lad being attacked by a horse in it's box at a racing yard in Epsom - bit him on the neck and killed him (caught his jugular). Don't underestimate the seriousness of what this pony could be capable of.
 
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