Pony hates yard owner

[SaddlePsych'D]

OK so as a YO I'm gonna be Devils Advocate here. I will probably offend, but here goes.

This pony has obviously got issues. I'm particularly concerned when you say he "knocked the YO over" in the field. In which case I do not blame her for "leaving him" there. I would do too, sorry, but nobody asks to be knocked over by another person's pony. If I was the YO here I'd be saying look sorry but I can't offer anything more than basic DIY livery and won't be handling this pony any more. Period.

I think you need to do two things: firstly I would suggest that you move - and find somewhere where this pony can find a more settled and suitable environment. Secondly I would respectfully suggest that you try and address some of his behavioural issues because if this happens again at another yard he is likely to be labelled as "dangerous". You may need professional help with this.

I dare say this isn't what you want to hear - like I said, I'm playing Devils Advocate. But as a YO sorry but I'd be asking you to move on, as politely as possible, as I wouldn't be prepared to put life & limb at risk.

This seems OTT to me, given OP is a novice owner and presumably been able to safely handle the pony for however long they have had him.

That said OP, it would be interesting to get an external instructor/trainer in for another view.

This does not sound like a great yard tbh and no it shouldn't be a given that you should be treated as inferior due to having less experience. Some yards are quite capable of being respectful and welcoming of people at different stages of horse ownership. Or at least of being able to have grown up conversations if running into an issue like this.

 

[Winters100]

For reasons of complete transparency I’ll try to answer your questions, yes I’ve seen and been up with her hundreds of times to bring in, her manner is direct and rather rushed but nothing untoward. Tbh her 2 are usually hanging round the gate waiting to come in and so don’t need catching per se. Mine usually hangs back and is still grazing. I only have her account to say that she was barged by my pony so it’s difficult to say the actual events and yes she said he has in the past 8 days I’ve been back at work been bolshy on the ground with her also. Hence now she says he must be lead in a bridle and as she’s still turning out 5x week I feel I have to also for his continuity?

The yard suits on many respects apart from the undertone of inferiority I feel but I just thought I’d probably get that anywhere with being a new owner?

Well I would assume that she is telling the truth about being barged by your pony, and also about him being bolshy to lead. After all it is not really in her interests to have to put the bridle on to turnout. I would seek professional help, as these types of problems are generally progressive.

It is always important to remember with horses that we may intend to keep them forever, but sometimes something happens to make that impossible. I heard today that a lady at our yard has sadly passed away. She was in her early 50s, and since I suppose that her daughter, who is in her early 20s, will not be able to afford them, I guess that the horses will be sold. If a horse is sold it has a much higher chance of having a good life if it is generally amenable. There is a reason that so many advertisments say in the first line 'good to catch, box, shoe, clip'.

Could it be that the issue with being made to feel inferior is maybe a little to do with you being sensitive in this regard? I am not saying that it is this, but sometimes how we feel can make us read things into what others say. I can say myself that I have received thousands of pieces of unwanted advice, and I suspect that most horse owners would say the same, however because I am not sensitive about it I do not take any notice. Just maybe something worth thinking about, because with horses we are all just somewhere on a spectrum. You may feel that your fellow liveries are very knowledgable, but remember that there are also people who are far more knowledgable than them, to whom they would appear to be inexperienced.

No need to be too upset about this issue. Luckily no one has been hurt, and the issue that has been identified is one which may well be easily remedied with a good professional.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Edited to add that MiJodsR2BlinkinTite does make a good point. Being honest I do not think that the owner of the yard where I am would keep the horse there unless he saw some concerted efforts being made to resolve the problem, and since he has a waiting list for boxes he has in the past given notice in respect of difficult horses.

 

[Kirstd33]

OK so as a YO I'm gonna be Devils Advocate here. I will probably offend, but here goes.

This pony has obviously got issues. I'm particularly concerned when you say he "knocked the YO over" in the field. In which case I do not blame her for "leaving him" there. I would do too, sorry, but nobody asks to be knocked over by another person's pony. If I was the YO here I'd be saying look sorry but I can't offer anything more than basic DIY livery and won't be handling this pony any more. Period.

I think you need to do two things: firstly I would suggest that you move - and find somewhere where this pony can find a more settled and suitable environment. Secondly I would respectfully suggest that you try and address some of his behavioural issues because if this happens again at another yard he is likely to be labelled as "dangerous". You may need professional help with this.

I dare say this isn't what you want to hear - like I said, I'm playing Devils Advocate. But as a YO sorry but I'd be asking you to move on, as politely as possible, as I wouldn't be prepared to put life & limb at risk.

You haven’t offended me at all and I fully expected an opposing viewpoint possibly from a YO. I don’t disbelieve my YO and don’t blame her one second for leaving him as her health is her livelihood and I would not wish to put anyone in a position to get hurt. That’s why I asked if her pony could be left out with mine and I bring them in an evening, unfortunately I just can’t get there in a morning (well I could but it would be 6.30M and still dark) before the school run and work to turn him out so she will still need to do this for me or the only other alternative is him moving onto grass livery and losing his stable.

Today has been a disaster, apparently this morning he led to the field nicely but got to the field and pulled away with his muzzle in his bridle and bit still in his mouth and panicked and banged his teeth and this afternoon even I couldn’t catch him for a few minutes with the bridle so he’s obviously now afraid of that now.

At my wits end with it with working fulltime, the kiddies and now a non cooperative pony.

 

[Palindrome]

Since you have the option, I would put him on grass livery, that's a no brainer.
My guess is that he doesn't want to come in at night, that's why he is hard to catch for the YO.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Today has been a disaster, apparently this morning he led to the field nicely but got to the field and pulled away with his muzzle in his bridle and bit still in his mouth and panicked and banged his teeth and this afternoon even I couldn’t catch him for a few minutes with the bridle so he’s obviously now afraid of that now.

Who turned him out this morning when he ran off before the bridle had been completely removed? Does he ever do that with you? That to me is very much a training and/or handler issue, a horse should never ever be allowed to pull away and gallop off until headcollar or bridle is completely removed and the handler has stepped away and given permission for the horse to move away. It is very simple to teach this with a couple of handy treats, one small treat for standing quietly while bridle or headcollar is removed , keeping lead rope around the neck until they have stood calmly and then another small treat as you calmly and quietly step away and let the rope slip away from the horse, at which point you can just tell him OK or Off you go, or just sod off if that is your preference and mood.

How long have you had him OP and when did this problem for the YO start?

 

[gallopingby]

I wonder how long you’ve had him and what type he is? It does sound as if there’s a problem with handling either one that’s always been there or is likely to become progressively worse if not stopped asap. The yard doesn’t sound entirely suitable for him and maybe he would prefer to be out all the time? I think that would be the safest option for the next couple of months things could get better once the lighter nights come. I suppose the other question is ‘how experienced is the YO in dealing with the type of horse you have? Or are they maybe getting on a bit and not as able as they once were? Not everyone has as much experience or ability as they would like people to believe.

 

[Kirstd33]

Who turned him out this morning when he ran off before the bridle had been completely removed? Does he ever do that with you? That to me is very much a training and/or handler issue, a horse should never ever be allowed to pull away and gallop off until headcollar or bridle is completely removed and the handler has stepped away and given permission for the horse to move away. It is very simple to teach this with a couple of handy treats, one small treat for standing quietly while bridle or headcollar is removed , keeping lead rope around the neck until they have stood calmly and then another small treat as you calmly and quietly step away and let the rope slip away from the horse, at which point you can just tell him OK or Off you go, or just sod off if that is your preference and mood.

How long have you had him OP and when did this problem for the YO start?

He never don’t it for me no, in fact he’s never done any of these undesirable behaviours for me honeslt when I was off for over a month over Xmas he was fine and my routine was to turn him round to face me, remove head collar and yes give him a small treat. I don’t know how things have gone so wrong in less than a fortnight

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

How long have you had him and have you always kept him on this yard and has YO always had a problem handling him?

 

[Kirstd33]

I’ve had him since May last yr, always on this yard and he was out 24/7 until about October, so he was handled by YO nov/dec without incidence then by me for a month over Xmas and then again since I’ve been back at work just a short 10 days, where there’s been 2 occasions of him being left out on his own, difficulty in being caught and barginess. I don’t disagree that I need to keep up with ground work but I’m at a loss as to how things have unravelled so quickly

 

[black and brown]

Could you employ a freelance groom to do daily turnout and bring in for you. That way you could work together on firm, consistent handling which would give you time to see what the problem is and hopefully restore your pony's confidence.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Hmmm - to be honest I would be asking for him to be left turned out 24/7 while discreetly looking for another yard and be very picky how the new yard owner and grooms come across. I won't say anymore as pointless really, but I am going with my gut on this one and my gut says get him out of there and meanwhile stop her handling him and work on his handling going in and out yourself until he is polite and calm with you again.

 

[Wishfilly]

You haven’t offended me at all and I fully expected an opposing viewpoint possibly from a YO. I don’t disbelieve my YO and don’t blame her one second for leaving him as her health is her livelihood and I would not wish to put anyone in a position to get hurt. That’s why I asked if her pony could be left out with mine and I bring them in an evening, unfortunately I just can’t get there in a morning (well I could but it would be 6.30M and still dark) before the school run and work to turn him out so she will still need to do this for me or the only other alternative is him moving onto grass livery and losing his stable.

Today has been a disaster, apparently this morning he led to the field nicely but got to the field and pulled away with his muzzle in his bridle and bit still in his mouth and panicked and banged his teeth and this afternoon even I couldn’t catch him for a few minutes with the bridle so he’s obviously now afraid of that now.

At my wits end with it with working fulltime, the kiddies and now a non cooperative pony.

That sounds like quite a worrying situation with the bridle and the muzzle- perhaps I'm imagining worse than it was but it sounds like a situation where a horse could have been easily hurt? Does he really need a muzzle at this time of year? Particularly if he's in at night.

You mentioned grass livery was an option? Is that at this yard? I'd be very tempted to ask if he can move to that ASAP to avoid this escalating, and in the meantime get a trainer you trust out to work with you and the pony.

I do think it's very difficult to train a pony who never shows the negative behaviour with you, but it is also key that he can be handled by others, especially as you have such a busy life.

BTW, I don't think the comment about the sense of inferiority at being a new owner would happen everywhere, and I don't believe it's you being oversensitive. Some yards can have this sort of vibe, where someone is excluded or made to feel lesser, and people almost take delight in them having issues with their horse or pony. I really don't like it, and I don't think it encourages new owners to seek help.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Trust your pony…something has happened between him and the YO. If there is anyone else who can catch him in for you try that..no point pushing the point if it’s making him and YO stress.

Not always, - my ID mare hates certain type of men, usually bald men and work clothes or tracksuit bottoms and hoodies, she is petrified of some people snorting eyes huge nostrils flaring shaking etc.


One of my ex livery's boyfriend, the nice Lithuanian i know, but he has an accent, my mare is petrified of him , wont come near him or take treats from him, her eyes a huge preparing to flight round Stable. He has done nothing to her he loves animals, but I have also had this behaviour from her on a hack when certain people in certain looks pass her. Sometimes this Y/O could look like someone from the ponies past.

That is what has happened to my horse. I think it was when she was young in Ireland, so the Irish Accent could sound similar to Lithuanian.


To add:


I went round to one of my ex livery but friend also as she could not afford livery so went to grass livery. Well she hacked up to see me a year later also more recently

I went round to pick her up as she was riding my pony. Well her mare T I used to look after as pn part livery and we went competing together, well her pony saw me and looked scared and backed away, and it was the second time I saw her since she left.

Yet last week my friend gave me a treat and the mare took it ok.
Horses/ ponies are funny things sometimes there is no reason why they take a dislike to someone.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

OP, it sounds to me as if YO doesn't know what she is doing, so I wouldn't want her dealing with my pony. I would put him o grass livery and just continue to do what you have always done. There is no reason for you to lead in a bridle, unless you particularly want to.
I am guessing that when you talked about his muzzle, you meant the end of his nose, not that he was wearing one.

 

[Sossigpoker]

He never don’t it for me no, in fact he’s never done any of these undesirable behaviours for me honeslt when I was off for over a month over Xmas he was fine and my routine was to turn him round to face me, remove head collar and yes give him a small treat. I don’t know how things have gone so wrong in less than a fortnight

My cob is exactly the same ! He can do the same behaviour to other people, pulling away worn being released or even tanking off when led....but he's never done it to me! It's almost like something triggers him. He's scared of people with bad energy though, so anyone in a bad mood might have a problem.
I find he's perfect if I do most of the handling with my groom doing only some of it. This seems to keep him settled in fact today my totally non horsey partner caught him and brought him in , no problems at all , did all the gates and everything with him.

Edit to add- one of my cob's favourite people is a young man with autism. He has low , calm energy , his people skills aren't the best but he just clicks with my boy. This young man isn't even that experienced with horses but my boy is perfect for him and just adores him !

 

[spotty_pony2]

Well the YO shoulder was hurt by my pony and it had only just happened in full view of them all and I turned up. I am the newbie novice and they have been friends/liveries for years. They have been supportive of me getting pony but like to keep me in my place with reminders of my noviceness and lack of experience I guess.

MOVE MOVE MOVE

Don’t sell your pony - you sound happy with him and it’s not your fault they aren’t competent enough to catch him. I’d compromise and move further afield rather than stay there.

 

[Hamlet]

Just to put across another side of the coin…I’m a YM and there is one pony on the yard that is just not my friend! And only because I am the one that holds it (ie, pins the wild 12.2hh 26 year old thing down) when he has the vets or the dentist or needs worming. He is notoriously sprightly on his back legs for an old boy and all the vets know his name.

I can go up to this pony sometimes and give him a fuss, I love him! But we are NOT friends and he makes that very clear especially in the weeks following - and sometimes months, especially in the case of the dentist - if he sees me he runs the other way! I don’t allow any other staff to do things to him that he won’t like (like tenderly applying cream to a scrape ) because he will hold it against them and soon we will have a feral grey pony roaming the farm as nobody will catch him. None of the other thirty hold it against me or anyone, but this one really holds a grudge.

My point being, has the YO had to hold him for any appointments? He may not have even been badly behaved or seemed worried, once wrangled feral pony is actually ok to do, but he may see her as “that person”.

 

[Archangel]

Well the YO shoulder was hurt by my pony and it had only just happened in full view of them all

Did they think you were operating your pony by remote control then? Yards really can be quite toxic.

 

[Lois Lame]

Did they think you were operating your pony by remote control then? Yards really can be quite toxic.

Sounds like there might be a bunch of sheep keeping their horses at that yard, all ready to back up the YO.

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to see what really happened that day. We only have YO's word that she got charged at. And, as someone above said, what were the circumstances, exactly, if it did, in fact, happen?

How is the pony? What has the vet said?

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Could well be wrong but I would hazard a guess that the incident where she said he charged her he was actually in a blind panic when she come back for him, made a bolt for the gate and way out and ran her over. So not a deliberate attack, she was just in the way of a frightened pony. She is probably now being irritated by him so is harsher with him and he is genuinely frightened of her. I can imagine her turning him out using a bridle, him rushing into the field and her not calming him down and turning him to face her but just roughly pulling the bridle off. Pure speculation of course. I feel very sorry for the pony.

 

[Kirstd33]

Could well be wrong but I would hazard a guess that the incident where she said he charged her he was actually in a blind panic when she come back for him, made a bolt for the gate and way out and ran her over. So not a deliberate attack, she was just in the way of a frightened pony. She is probably now being irritated by him so is harsher with him and he is genuinely frightened of her. I can imagine her turning him out using a bridle, him rushing into the field and her not calming him down and turning him to face her but just roughly pulling the bridle off. Pure speculation of course. I feel very sorry for the pony.

I think that's exactly what happened and even pretty how the YO described it, I bet he was turning himself inside out being left out alone and at dusk so was desperate to get into the yard and the others. Not that I'm excusing his complete lack of manners though.
I think I have decided to (YO allowing) to move him onto grass livery at least for the forseeable. This will bring its own challenges and may mean losing his stable as the YO will fill it but hey ho, I cant have him terrified of coming in and out?

 

[Kirstd33]

This situation goes from bad to worse, as YO has just called me to say that she cannot even catch him in his stable to turn him out this morning literally working at school worried sick, I cant get there till after school so have advised her to leave him in with plenty of hay and water and I'll get there ASAP. I'm going to get the vet out to check him over and then come up with a plan of action to turn him away 24/7.

 

[nagblagger]

Sounds like your pony is scared of her if he is trying to get away from her.
He will be ok in the stable for a day, so try not to worry. I would love to know what has been happening when you are not there, maybe i'm just too suspicious.

 

[Goldie's mum]

This situation goes from bad to worse, as YO has just called me to say that she cannot even catch him in his stable to turn him out this morning literally working at school worried sick, I cant get there till after school so have advised her to leave him in with plenty of hay and water and I'll get there ASAP. I'm going to get the vet out to check him over and then come up with a plan of action to turn him away 24/7.

Sorry you're having a stressful time. That sounds like a good plan.

Can I just ask if anything has changed recently, that might make him more reactive? Is he getting ridden less, for example, with the weather we've had, or fed differently? Just wondering. I looked at your previous threads. When he arrived you describe him as "fizzy" but manageable , on summer levels of turnout and 4-5 hours' work a week. A small change could tip him over into no longer tolerating things he used to be prepared to put up with.

 

[Kirstd33]

Nothing changed no, same feed; adlib hay over night, and just a small handful of happy hoof in a bucket to come into. Turnout probably getting gradually longer each day approx 9-4pm, but yes not being ridden as much due to the continual rain over Xmas and now the frost and me being back at work FT. But he was ridden both days last weekend, a hack with me and a field amble and small jumps with my teenage daughter.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

How soon is the vet able to see him OP? I am in complete agreement with Nagblagger, the poor pony is terrified of YO in my opinion, regardless of any other things that may be going on like pain etc. That fear may well be bubbling over to include a mistrust of others too.

I think it's important you also tell the vet about recent problems too. They will need the full picture to accurately assess if this a physical or phycological problem.

Regardless, at this point you do need to get all your ducks in a row, I don't want to alarm you but it wouldn't surprise me if YO's next move is to ask you to leave. Again just a gut feeling but worth seeing if anywhere else is available.

Is there any other yards, likely more expensive but with more professional staff and well established YM in situ? Being a yard owner does not necessarily equate to knowledge and professional experience, though many YO like to believe it does.

Try not to worry, you have had the pony since last May and obviously built a bond with him and enjoyed him, this can be resolved I'm sure, given time, the right environment and your vet's input.

 

[Arzada]

I think I have decided to (YO allowing) to move him onto grass livery at least for the forseeable. This will bring its own challenges and may mean losing his stable as the YO will fill it but hey ho, I cant have him terrified of coming in and out?

Is there an option for grass livery plus pay for a stable? At my friend's yard which is DIY you have the basic DIY cost per week and if you want a stable it is £10 per week

 

[dorsetladette]

How soon is the vet able to see him OP? I am in complete agreement with Nagblagger, the poor pony is terrified of YO in my opinion, regardless of any other things that may be going on like pain etc. That fear may well be bubbling over to include a mistrust of others too.

I think it's important you also tell the vet about recent problems too. They will need the full picture to accurately assess if this a physical or phycological problem.

Regardless, at this point you do need to get all your ducks in a row, I don't want to alarm you but it wouldn't surprise me if YO's next move is to ask you to leave. Again just a gut feeling but worth seeing if anywhere else is available.

Is there any other yards, likely more expensive but with more professional staff and well established YM in situ? Being a yard owner does not necessarily equate to knowledge and professional experience, though many YO like to believe it does.

Try not to worry, you have had the pony since last May and obviously built a bond with him and enjoyed him, this can be resolved I'm sure, given time, the right environment and your vet's input.

I'm in agreeance with the above. I think your YO is finding him an inconvenience. I'd suggest 'something' has happened and his reaction has frightened YO and now she is worried by him which he is picking up on. To not loose face she is telling liveries how 'awful' your pony is.

I'd get him moved asap before rumours start and you can't find anywhere else.

 

[Squeak]

I'd be worried about what really happened that the pony is now scared of the YO in a situation he didn't used to be. The one time I had a horse become frightened of a person (freelance groom) we then found out they'd beaten someone elses horse (we only found this out once they'd stopped freelancing for use) and so chances are had unfortunately probably done something to our horse to justify it being scared of them. That was a horse that was sensitive and the groom was worried about the horse and I assume they got in to the spiral of the groom was rough with the horse, the horse got worried and so 'misbehaved' and got told off where the behaviour got worse and the groom got more worried. None of the other horses had problems because they were more laid back and so never gave the groom something to worry about. We got a new freelancer and the horse stopped having problems...

Personally with everything else you've said about how you are treated at the yard I would be moving asap.

 

[Equi]

I used to say that Arabi would never be stolen as no one can get near him, my farrier turned up early a few months ago and although they were in he wouldn't let him put a head collar on him, his always been the same his 20 so won't change now

Horses are funny old soles. I know my mini mare wouldn’t ever ever be stolen because even I can’t catch her without serious effort