'Poor Kids'

[Hacked_Off]

The thing that gets me more is things like the rise in university tuition fees. Nine thousand pounds a year of debt is going to stop many of these children aiming for university and bettering themselves which is shame as some of them will have potential which is wasted.

But children from lower income back grounds like the children in this program get all sorts of grants so it's possible for them to afford university.

Was there a reason given for him not recieving CB for his eldest, i have 2 over 16 & i still recieve CB & tax credits for both, though they are both in college. If he wasnt receiving CB for the child then he wouldnt have been getting tax credits for them either. Im kind of wishing id watched this now.

If she's in full time education wouldn't she be receiving ema as well?

 

[perfect11s]

Sadly they are just where the left want them -poor and dependent, hopefully the disgusting situatation of so many of the parents being better off finacialy not working than with work, will end and work and self respect will return , uncontroled immigration and the benifit system have done so much damage to working people in this country...

 

[navaho]

If she's in full time education wouldn't she be receiving ema as well?

Yes, id forgotten about that, mine get EMA on top of what i get for them, i can only assume the child hadnt returned to education, but even then at under 18 the parents should still be receiving some sort of benefits for them.

 

[cruise]

Makes you realise how lucky you have it really.

What I kept thinking throughout was about the people who live on the same estate as me on benefits. They are in their dressing gown at lunchtime having their 20th fag of the day hungover from the night before.

Why is the council giving money for people to spend smoking and boozing when it could be given to people like those off this programme.

Also if they were that poor why did they have 3 TVs a computer and video games?

yeah and the council are also giving money to quite a few people I know who have horses and really don't need child benefit, yet there was a big outcry when it was going to be stopped for high earners??!!! Really bugs me at the yard when folk say they'll pay for the new bridle/riding lesson etc with their child benefit.

 

[skydancer]

quite honestly this programme made me cry!!! the fact that children went without meals is disgraceful Yet we continue to send money abroad when there are children here that so desperately need our help David cameron should step out of his bubble and visit these places and talk to the children and their parents b4 he writes the next chq out for the needy abroad! God bless the kids

 

[skydancer]

in fact i think that little girl in bradford has more to deal with then just beign poor - her "care" was appalling - did you see how she put the cream on her poorly legs sat on a filthy step in her back garden!
Agree with someone else who said beign clean, tidying up and gettign rid of rubbish costs nothing. The other families were genuine but I could have slapped that poor little girls mum leaving her kids so dirty - that scene of her sat on the garden step with her legs bleeding surrounded by filth and rubbish was appalling

Another thing i couldnt believe was that the three little girls were playing in an abandoned house and thru the programme the kids were just leftto their own devices - whilst i desperately feel for their parents a bar of soap would have cost much less than the nails!!

 

[touchstone]

But children from lower income back grounds like the children in this program get all sorts of grants so it's possible for them to afford university.

That is true, but then it hits those who are just above the bracket where they qualify for grants and so it makes it less likely that they will want to incurr huge debts and has the knock on effect of them then not achieving/earning as much as they could.

 

[touchstone]

Sadly they are just where the left want them -poor and dependent, hopefully the disgusting situatation of so many of the parents being better off finacialy not working than with work, will end and work and self respect will return , uncontroled immigration and the benifit system have done so much damage to working people in this country...

Absolutely 100% agree with this, we have become so reliant on handouts that people have forgotten how to fend for themselves.

 

[sprytzer]

The young lad with the DS....wasnt he one of Sams better off friends, not a poor kid!
Regarding the tv in Sams house did i hear wrong when Sam said he has to put a £1 in to watch it, and only gets 6hrs for that as well?

Every year the UK has Children In Need.........where the hell does that money go, for sure it does'nt benefit our poor kids!!!

 

[perfect11s]

Absolutely 100% agree with this, we have become so reliant on handouts that people have forgotten how to fend for themselves.

Yep
the client state!! more people to vote for labour and lots of well paid jobs for handwinging leftys to maintain it...

 

[DragonSlayer]

The young lad with the DS....wasnt he one of Sams better off friends, not a poor kid!
Regarding the tv in Sams house did i hear wrong when Sam said he has to put a £1 in to watch it, and only gets 6hrs for that as well?

Every year the UK has Children In Need.........where the hell does that money go, for sure it does'nt benefit our poor kids!!!

Yes, the lad with the DS was a friend of Sam, and the TV and equipment was being paid for by putting a pound in it for 6 hours usage. People really need to pay a little more attention before just making assumptions.

 

[Spudlet]

The thing is, if you assume it's all down to poor parenting, bad budgetting, feckless spending etc then you can blame the people themselves. Therefore a. you don't have to confront the fact that in this country, today, right now, there are people really struggling, and b. that this could happen to YOU - there but for the grace of God and all that. Because actually, it's all their own fault really. It's a nice little cop-out.

I'm not saying every bit of parenting was perfect, but it's oversimplistic to suggest that it is all the parents' fault. And children don not deserve to live like that, even if their parents can't budget to save their lives, frankly. And if that makes me a lefty, pass me my little red book.

 

[zandp]

It is appaling that there are children in this country who live like this, one has to question where the billions we pay out in benefits goes to as it doesnt appear to always go to those who really need it.

I do think that there are a number of people who dont know how to live on very little money, they dont know how to make do and mend and how to feed children on a budget. A lot of these skills have never been passed down from the older generation and we are missing a trick here. I am not sure if charities and other groups attempt to teach these skills as they really should as well as providing financial support and clothing etc or if they do and people dont take it on board.

I currently work for an international company in their baby food/milk division. We are running an outreach programme where we go and teach parents with babies and toddlers about healthy nutrition, how to cook healthy meals on a budget etc. We're helping upskilling the parents too, our IT department are involved teaching computing skills for example. The county we're in has 4 of the poorest towns in the country in it, a lot of children here are living in total poverty. Abhorrent in this day and age.

My department last year went to 1 of the poorest schools in the town we're based in and made them a fruit and veg garden, in 2 days. It was knackering but the children are loving growing their own produce and the parents have, inspired by the work we did, finally started volunteering so the school can start a cookery club after school They'd been trying to do this for the last few years but couldn't get the volunteers. The children are loving finding out how to cook.

If you want your company to get involved with projects like this Business In The Community (BITC) is a great place to start. We're lucky as we're given 2 paid days to volunteer on any projects from our company, most of those are departmental projects, schools or community projects for eg that BITC know need help are then sent the right help - the company's made gardens for a local Barnados centre that the whole community now uses as a community centre, we've helped charities set up websites, helped them with accounting systems / training, nutritionists have educated communities about healthy eating.

It's really satisfying helping with these projects and really makes you grateful for what you have.

 

[Clannad48]

I'm going to suggest this programme is watched at skool during the PSRE lessons, so those kids with xboxes and all the things they want can watch it....and be bloody grateful.

^^^^^^
This is so true - I work in a school and will certainly be recommending that it gets shown

 

[darkhorse123]

The thing is, if you assume it's all down to poor parenting, bad budgetting, feckless spending etc then you can blame the people themselves. Therefore a. you don't have to confront the fact that in this country, today, right now, there are people really struggling, and b. that this could happen to YOU - there but for the grace of God and all that. Because actually, it's all their own fault really. It's a nice little cop-out.

I'm not saying every bit of parenting was perfect, but it's oversimplistic to suggest that it is all the parents' fault. And children don not deserve to live like that, even if their parents can't budget to save their lives, frankly. And if that makes me a lefty, pass me my little red book.

In the case of the littel girl in bradford i really think childrens services should be involved - hers wasnt just about beign "poor" - there were obvious signs of neglect.
This mum needs paretning advice, guidance - basic care, budgetting etc etc. Childrens services coudl send family helpers in, support workers to help mum with budgetting, hygiene and parenting skills.
Did you see how mum gave an 8 year old girl her creams etc and expected her to do it herself???
Wrong - if i had worked with that family I would have been expressing deep concerns and I have worked with single parents for years - absoluteley no need to live in such squalor
Offer help to mum, practicallya nd emotionally - if its not taken up or ignored take the children away - harsh but needed for the sake of the child whose interests have to remain paramount

 

[Hippona]

I was discussing this programme with my mother.....

Her opinion.....during/after the war- when there was NO welfare state/benefits etc.....people learned to make do and mend and create meals out of literally nothing. Everyone had a bit of pride and certainly lack of money was no excuse for squalor. I do think to some extent people need to learn to cook with 'proper' food (because quite often its cheaper to buy a bag of spuds and a block of cheese and have jacket potatoes than it is to buy those huge sausage rolls and whatever crap the kids were eating) and to alter clothes and bloody well look after their evironment.

I know some of those flats were hideously damp and mouldy and there was no excuse for the council to house people like that....but why the ripped wallpaper, general state of disrepair and totally minging carpets? I wouldn't let my dog sleep on carpets like that- I would be down on my hands and knees scrubbing the place and keeping it clean for my kids...

 

[darkhorse123]

ps i was a single paretn with 3 kids living not far from this council estate in bradford when i took advantage of teh education in this country - i did an access course whilst the state paid for childcare for my children.
I then did a degree knowing i would have a huge student loan to pay for, i did voluntary work also.
My goal was to work with other single mums, thinking i could help them - unfortuateley most single mums are brought up knowing nothing else than how to "play the system" - learnt from their parents and peers how to recieve dla etc - sounds sick but soem people take overdoses, nto too much of course - just enought o get them in hospital once every year so they can claim their dla - learnt it from their mums
Of course not all are liek this but some are - how the hell do you tell who is genuine and who is doing it so they can tick the boxes on the dla forms????
So so difficult and no i dont have an answer other than watch these poor kiddies and try to give them a better life - but then childrens services get dammed if they do and dammed if they dont

 

[darkhorse123]

I was discussing this programme with my mother.....

Her opinion.....during/after the war- when there was NO welfare state/benefits etc.....people learned to make do and mend and create meals out of literally nothing. Everyone had a bit of pride and certainly lack of money was no excuse for squalor. I do think to some extent people need to learn to cook with 'proper' food (because quite often its cheaper to buy a bag of spuds and a block of cheese and have jacket potatoes than it is to buy those huge sausage rolls and whatever crap the kids were eating) and to alter clothes and bloody well look after their evironment.

I know some of those flats were hideously damp and mouldy and there was no excuse for the council to house people like that....but why the ripped wallpaper, general state of disrepair and totally minging carpets? I wouldn't let my dog sleep on carpets like that- I would be down on my hands and knees scrubbing the place and keeping it clean for my kids...

Agree with this to some extent - i do agree int eh case of the bradford girl, her house was just filthy but not on teh damp houses one.
Once damp has penetrated you need the housing association to deal wiht the root of the problem, its in the building and you can scrub and scrub but will not get rid of it
I felt for that family - teh spores literally are in the air, ruins the building, clothes, furniture and of course childrens lungs
You could see this mum ahd tried but was fighting a loosing battle - people in the uk shoudl not have to live in such poor inadequate conditions - this mum could not win the battle of the spores

 

[SO1]

It was a very sad program especially as the children were so articulate and seemed intelligent, well behaved children.

Houses with meters such as electricity meter they just eat up money compared to non metered electricity.

Children are expensive to look after and child benefit is not that much £20 for eldest child and then £13 per child for any further children. They need food, clothing, shoes, books and school equipment, they need to wash, their clothes need washing, non prescription medicine medicines, toothpaste, they need bedding. £20 a week is not much when you think how much all that would cost.

Even cleaning products to clean up a house cost money.

 

[Onyxia]

Yes, the lad with the DS was a friend of Sam, and the TV and equipment was being paid for by putting a pound in it for 6 hours usage. People really need to pay a little more attention before just making assumptions.

Ahh,but then they could not blame the needy for their own ills
that show very nearly had me in tears quite a few times and I am not one to blub easily.


This week I have paid £11 for a school trip and £16 for the class photo as well as £10 school dinner money - that is nealy half of my mothers weekly budget for her and three children when I was a child.

To an outsider,we were a family with quite a few high end goods in the house,the house was nicely decorated,clean and we were always turned out smart.
What was never seen was the bags of hand me downs from older cousins,the age of the luxury things ( most bought before my fathers death or by a child grown and left home) or that my mother did a degree to try and change the future for us at her wits end because there was never enough money or enough of her to go around.
It is very easy to make a judgement without knowing the facts,and much easier to place blame then it is to offer help.

 

[Shabby_Chic]

Haven't read the other posts but had 1st hand experience while volunteering as a sports coach in primary school in nottingham at Uni. We were told not to say anything and to prepare ourselves for lack of sports clothing and kit when we went into the school but I thought it was just to cover the organisers behinds and we wouldn't actually see anything bad. WRONG. First year I did it there were kids coming out in thin white VESTS, shorts and school shoes to learn how to play rugby on a muddy grass field in the pouring rain in February!!! One of them turned blue within 15 minutes! We'd been told not to send them home as it was then punishing them for not having kit so I ended up taking jackets with me each time for them to borrow if need be without making an issue of it. Second year I did it I was in such a 'deprived' area and it wasn't quite AS bad but still some pretty sad sights...

 

[DragonSlayer]

Haven't read the other posts but had 1st hand experience while volunteering as a sports coach in primary school in nottingham at Uni. We were told not to say anything and to prepare ourselves for lack of sports clothing and kit when we went into the school but I thought it was just to cover the organisers behinds and we wouldn't actually see anything bad. WRONG. First year I did it there were kids coming out in thin white VESTS, shorts and school shoes to learn how to play rugby on a muddy grass field in the pouring rain in February!!! One of them turned blue within 15 minutes! We'd been told not to send them home as it was then punishing them for not having kit so I ended up taking jackets with me each time for them to borrow if need be without making an issue of it. Second year I did it I was in such a 'deprived' area and it wasn't quite AS bad but still some pretty sad sights...

At our school (not too bad thank goodness) we do have a supply of 2nd-hand blazers, shirts, trousers etc stored away, some students donate them when they have outgrown them, same with the PE....then any kid with an issue on clothing, can find themselves decent stuff that fits, without anyone knowing. Teachers at my school have also said, why hasn't a teacher bought Sam cheap stuff on the sly? Many have done it in more down-trodden areas, the kid never knew who got them it, it was just there...bought and available, and I would do it myself too!

 

[touchstone]

"Even cleaning products to clean up a house cost money."


They certainly do, but I'm pretty certain that my mother would have found the assumption that she couldn't clean her house properly because she was poor very insulting!

You don't need to spend vast amounts on proprietary cleaners/polishes etc. A bottle of bleach and some washing up liquid and a bowl of hot water with a cloth are probably enough to keep on top of things. Hardly excessive monetary wise. A bar of green Fairy soap was used for a multitude of tasks when I was younger, it is the way we live now that makes things so expensive, the multiple cleaners etc, although I have to say that that house in Bradford looked as if it had never been cleaned in its life, it was disgusting. I had to make my clothes last longer, so was always careful not to spill things on them and any stains were wiped off immediately so that they lasted a few days (excluding underwear of course!)



We didn't have a vacuum cleaner but a cheap carpet sweeper and you got on your hands and knees with a dustpan and brush for the stairs. There is absolutely no excuse for filth like that. I agree with the poster who said that that was child neglect as much as poverty.

I do think that we keep people trapped in poverty in this country, educating and supporting is definitely worth doing and I wonder if it would be better to give parents food/clothing vouchers etc where there is the possibility of money going on alcohol/cigarettes/drugs etc.

I also think that there are elements of society that aare guilty of milking the poor, those schemes where you buy to view televisions etc are extortionate, they would be far better off with second hand tv from somewhere. Our council operates a scheme where you can hand in any unwanted goods and then people on benefits can purchase them for a nominal fee. Perhaps more schemes are needed like this.

 

[navaho]

Can i ask how many people have actually been on benefits who are commenting on this? It seems to me people are trying to justify the situation those kids were in by lack of money & the crummy houses, ok the house i can understand as there isnt much they can do....but lack of money, sorry im not buying it! Ive been there & got the t-shirt & lack of money was most certainly something i never suffered with. If i was on benefits now id be getting over £330 a week, out of that all i need to find is my food, which usually comes to around £100, my electric which is £20 & money for my heating (ive a log burner at the mo), water rates if i had them (were on well water) & anything else on top of that is really a luxury...well apart from clothing as & when it is needed. So you see, for the life of me i cant understand why any of them are living in the conditions they are in unless the money is getting spent on things it shouldnt. Sorry i sound like a broken record but i really just cant understand why they are living how they are. You also have to remember you have been shown what the people making the program want you to see.

 

[Hippona]

Houses with meters such as electricity meter they just eat up money compared to non metered electricity.

.

Yes.....metered fuel, metered TV....all costs more than 'normal'.
Seems the less you have to spend and the worse off you are....the higher the price.

 

[navaho]

Yes metered fuel costs more, not a massive amount more to be honest, ive always had token meters for my electric, look at it this way its easier to find £20 a week to put in your meter than to find £200 to pay your bill when it comes in & i actually believe the cheapest way to pay is by direct debit, which even now i wont do as you cant always guarantee there will be money in the bank when its due out. As for buying TVs on a meter do you not think that is more about the familes wanting a nice flashy TV rather than making do & mend with an old second hand one, if you go down to our local auctions you can pick a nice wide screen TV, the old type not these skinny things, for about £20-£30. Its all about the choices they make.

 

[horsesatemymoney]

the worst one was the girls in Bradford- the worst image was at the end, where she was doing her homework and all you could see was how dirty her pyjamas were- that wasn't a day's dirt! Meanwhile, Mum had her false nails on- surely you would go to Asda, buy some own brand soap and a towel and clean your children? Nobody in this programme was in a position where they couldn't afford to be personally clean. As for cleaning the house (not the one in Scotland because they were clearly trying to keep it nice but it was damp) something like zoflora is so cheap, you dilute it with water and it cleans everything- again why not save up a few pennies each week to pay for it if things were really so bad? The poverty is one thing, but the conditions were another- wouldbn't getting yourself, your children and your house clean do something towards breaking the spell of the benefit trap? I felt really sorry for Sam, I wonder if his sister, at 16, had a part-time job?

 

[Piedpiper]

Apologies in advance, because I haven't read the whole of the thread.

I work for a charity helping vulnerable families just like Sams'. In the area I work our demographic is very split- we have extremely wealthy families and at the same time 5 of our wards (in 1 area) are in the top 10% of the poverty statistics in the UK. Unfortunately, people only see the wealth that's in the area-which makes helping those in genuine, and, as you've seen, often dire need, extremely difficult.

People have asked about charities such as comic relief...their money is tied up in grants so that charities like mine can apply for funding. Sounds great, except it's extrememly competitive and statistically only a 1:10 chance of getting lucky. With the government cutbacks many charities have lost their funding and are in dire need themselves, so that competition is going to get even worse. Harsh times.

I guess what I'm trying to say is stories like these break my heart. I agree there can be issues with less than great parenting (which is why we work with empowering families to be able to solve their issues themselves-rather than doing it for them-if that makes sense!). However, some people really are stuck, with no real form of escape. If charities like mine were to disappear then so many families will be left with no support network or form for help.
Many people on the thread have asked how they can help families like Sams, with money for the charities being a real issue, perhaps you could consider contacting a local charity and volunteer to organise/help at a fundraiser or something? Alternatively, my charity does accept clothing which is passed onto our families, and we work with a local church who has a furniture store for donated furniture which is then passed out to families in need. Perhaps there's something like that near you too.

Phew...sorry for the long post. Anyone want any details of my charity (which is part of a UK wide charity) then feel free to PM me.

 

[skint1]

I haven't watched the show but just wanted to say that sometimes long term poverty and benefit dependency does bad things to people's soul. IME, they sort of give up in a way and become hopeless, maybe the lack of cleanliness people saw in some cases was part of that feeling of hopelessness?

Also, a few pages ago there was a post about a little girl who thought she'd be happy riding horses, that is sad because it's something that many of us can take for granted, I have a story from my own life though about how trying to help can sometimes end up badly.

At the behest of my OH's mum I tried this with my OH's nephew who mentioned liking horses (a 14yo lad from a long term benefit dependent family) and all I found was that I couldn't do enough for him or his family and it nearly took over my life and ended with me being branded as a not very nice person (which is probably not wrong but still...)

 

[Spudlet]

Re the 16 year old having a part-time job - the blog that was linked to somewhere on here mentioned this. Basically the dad was out in the afternoons job hunting, so the girl needed to be at home to look after her brothers when they got back from school.

I was in the same position at her age, FWIW. My mum was working shifts, so I needed to be at home to care for my younger siblings. It certainly was not the easy option for me, I would have much rather been earning some money than stepping into a semi-parental role for two stroppy siblings. So I admire that girl for doing the same thing.