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groat said:
I wonder if it is a welfare case. Or is it perhaps about some kind of breach of contract / a financial or contractual breakdown of an arrangement and payment issues? I haven’t seen confirmation of the type of case, but maybe someone else has… TB said “relating to neglect” but that doesn’t necessarily mean an actual neglect case.

I believe the horses were “seized” by the syndicate not by any authorities, and I think the choice of word there was (intentionally or not) loaded and misleading. Is the welfare/alleged neglect evidence being brought up as part of a separate, more financial or contractual matter perhaps? Guess we’ll see if it goes to court.
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And I'm pretty sure that it's fairly obvious that all these 'new users' are doing a feeble job of covering up the fact that they are all close to this situation, on one side or another...

Having all joined in the last day or so and only having commented on this thread, trying to use general language and making things try to seem vague, but rather failing to do so...
 
PurpleSpots said:
And I'm pretty sure that it's fairly obvious that all these 'new users' are doing a feeble job of covering up the fact that they are all close to this situation, on one side or another...

Having all joined in the last day or so and only having commented on this thread, trying to use general language and making things try to seem vague, but rather failing to do so...
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I’m technically a new user (had an account on an old email I used every so often) but definitely not close to either side — tbh I originally just came on here nosily to see if anyone had details and then found it especially odd after seeing TB’s post claiming that what looked like a very non-emaciated horse was emaciated. I was wondering if I’d gone a bit mad.
 
Beaudec said:
I think you’re right re the GFM sparking a nerve and the way I see it, the allegations weren’t any of the public’s business until they/us/we were being asked to contribute to the £80k and therefore are entitled morally to be aware of another side of the story before parting with our hard earned
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Or you could equally hypothesise LZ decided to return to competitive dressage after a 4 year break (her words) and wanted the ride on the horses, tried to retrieve them and it all turned sour. MD publicising Olaf’s sale and garnering support has infuriated them and its turned into mud slinging 🤷🏼‍♀️

I’m not suggesting that’s the case, just that it can all be interpreted many, many ways!

What baffles me is that TB’s horse and the other mare appear to have been with MD about 8 months. TB says she removed him as soon as his condition started to deteriorate which would fit the timeline (heading into winter, not out at grass, MD not feeding). But Olaf has been there 5 years? And had LZ’s full support up until 3 months ago. By what people on here have witnessed, MD’s shoddy approach to looking after her horses is nothing new, so why were there never any concerns for his welfare or condition before?
 
I was referred to this forum as I explored the possibility of investing in shares of Jagger, when Philyrides and LZ were seeking individual investors.


I am generally interested in supporting up-and-coming riders with limited resources, particularly those who emphasize soft, ethical horsemanship. I believe equestrian sport is at a critical point, and I try to support riders who aim to move it forward responsibly. MD appeared to align with those values.

Before committing, I conducted my own due diligence and ultimately decided not to invest. That decision was based solely on concerns I developed regarding Philyrides / LZ, rather than the horse itself or MD.


Specifically:

  • I observed that LZ appears to use two different surnames in equestrian contexts. The Z surname is used for Philyrides, Instagram, and related media, while the surname Ponomarenko appears on her active FEI records and in connection with equestrian activities in Estonia, including competing client horses.
  • The syndicate paperwork I received did not appear as thorough or professionally structured as similar agreements I have reviewed in past investments. In particular, the financial terms were unclear, as was whether the horse would be permanently based with MD.
  • On social media, LZ stated that her Young Rider FEI horse “Secret” was saved by her from slaughter after others did not believe in the horse’s potential. However, the listed owner for her FEI Junior and Young Rider competitions is “CEI Specialized CH&J School of Olympic Potential of Equestrian Sport” (Ukraine), which I found difficult to reconcile with that description. I also had concerns about her own ambitions and potential conflicts with other philyrides riders.
  • After declining the initial investment, I later had dinner with another investor. Without prompting, they mentioned that LZ had loans coming due, needed to sell some of horses, and thus horse J had to leave. While this was second-hand information, it contributed to my overall discomfort. This investor was pleased with MD and had no concerns over welfare.
 
For me, the giveaway in all this is the public information that LZ has been trying for some time to sell shares in Olaf and to raise funds for Jaeger/Jagger. TB would also benefit from funds being made available for Jaeger/Jagger. I hypothesise that welfare concerns may have been concocted in order to justify the removal of Olaf from MD's yard, since this would be the first step in forcing his sale. Obviously I do not know this for sure. But as a hypothesis, it fits the available evidence.
 
Alastair12 said:
I observed that LZ appears to use two different surnames in equestrian contexts. The Z surname is used for Philyrides, Instagram, and related media, while the surname Ponomarenko appears on her active FEI records and in connection with equestrian activities in Estonia, including competing client horses.
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If one is her maiden name and one is her married name I wouldn't find this unusual at all. If she's using multiple different names, for example like Grant Shapps, for no legitimate purpose then it would be more concerning. I know someone in the equestrian industry who has used 3 different names as she's been married twice.
 
JTDAE said:
For me, the giveaway in all this is the public information that LZ has been trying for some time to sell shares in Olaf and to raise funds for Jaeger/Jagger. TB would also benefit from funds being made available for Jaeger/Jagger. I hypothesise that welfare concerns may have been concocted in order to justify the removal of Olaf from MD's yard, since this would be the first step in forcing his sale. Obviously I do not know this for sure. But as a hypothesis, it fits the available evidence.
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Olaf is Jaeger - Olag is his stable name i believe
 
nutjob said:
If one is her maiden name and one is her married name I wouldn't find this unusual at all. If she's using multiple different names, for example like Grant Shapps, for no legitimate purpose then it would be more concerning. I know someone in the equestrian industry who has used 3 different names as she's been married twice.
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Exactly, I am European from a country where it is commonplace to have both mother and father surnames individually. The surname I use depends on the circs and what country I am in. That really is not suspicious to me. I am not sure the prospective investor's comments shed much light either way. The whole thing seems a mess and crowdfunding in such circumstances just doesn't sit right with me given the many other causes that £80k could make a huge difference to.
 
mini-eventer said:
Olaf is Jaeger - Olag is his stable name i believe
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No, Olaf's competition name is Jaguar VOD. He is a 2014 gelding, by Davino VOD out of a Rubinstein I mare.

Jagger/Jaegger/Jaeger/Jaegerbomb/Horse J is a completely different horse. He is a 2016 gelding by Johnson out of a Furstenball mare.

ETA: Sorry, cross-posted with DabDab.

ETA2: Hmmm, I'm not sure that the widely and repeatedly shared breeding details of Horse J are specifically accurate, as there's no record of a 2016 male horse by Johnson with the damsire of Furstenball, or even a 2016 male horse by Furstenball with the damsire of Johnson (just in case the sire and damsire had been written the wrong way around), listed on Horsetelex that I can find. There may be a simple explanation in that the horse simply isn't on the system, or perhaps Horse J isn't strictly by Johnson out of a Furstenball mare, as '2016 Johnson x Furstenball' would normally signify - perhaps those horses are further back in the pedigree?

The pedigree for Jaguar VOD is correct, as it will have been verified by BD before he was given affiliated status.

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AmyMay Again said:
Surely it would be civil? The horse(s) were removed by the owner(s). Not the RSPCA.
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It may come down to use of language. If someone will not return property to you, you can try and take your goods back, and if you have proof of owner ship you may want to inform the police you intend to try and remove them even if they can not intervene as it's a civil dispute. Then at least you have a police incident number and create a data trail.

"Theft occurs when someone dishonestly appropriates (takes possession of or makes use of exclusively for oneself/someone else without permission) some property that does not belong to him or her and treats it as his or her own with the intention of permanently depriving the rightful owner of the property."

Most people have problems try to get people to remove other owners horses, but I did have a friend who loaned her very well bred youngster on a long term loan and then the loaner was trying to sell it. To get it back quickly she paid over the odds 'livery'.
 
JTDAE said:
For me, the giveaway in all this is the public information that LZ has been trying for some time to sell shares in Olaf and to raise funds for Jaeger/Jagger. TB would also benefit from funds being made available for Jaeger/Jagger. I hypothesise that welfare concerns may have been concocted in order to justify the removal of Olaf from MD's yard, since this would be the first step in forcing his sale. Obviously I do not know this for sure. But as a hypothesis, it fits the available evidence.
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Eh. And this is why I think it's so dangerous to jump on the bandwagon of these sort of social media posts and go down the road of character assassination based on a narrow viewpoint that you have read online.

The criticism of the GFM if people disagree with the essence of it is absolutely fine. But to start making broad accusations of serious neglect, assumptions about her family's wealth, scrutinising the condition of her horses, criticising MD's character or pulling apart her BD record is unnecessary.

How many of these sort of posts do we see all the time on dodgy dealer & bad livery pages and the likes, usually followed with a completely different version of events and none of us as outsiders will ever really know the full truth of the matter.

There is still a person at the centre of all of this who has just been blasted across social media and is now the centre of a witch-hunt based on:

  • One disgruntled owners facebook post
  • One picture taken at a weird angle of a slightly skinny horse with no real context
  • What appears to be a perfectly healthy competition horse that lacked some muscle and topline
  • One persons experience that, at some point, she was quite blase about coming down to do her horses and expected other people to hay and feed them
Specifically regarding Olaf, knowing the work, care and conditioning it takes to keep horses competing at the high levels, I still just struggle to understand how you would keep a horse looking well and training at PSG if you were leaving it for days on end with no food & water and riding it once a week.
 
KikiDee said:
Eh. And this is why I think it's so dangerous to jump on the bandwagon of these sort of social media posts and go down the road of character assassination based on a narrow viewpoint that you have read online.

The criticism of the GFM if people disagree with the essence of it is absolutely fine. But to start making broad accusations of serious neglect, assumptions about her family's wealth, scrutinising the condition of her horses, criticising MD's character or pulling apart her BD record is unnecessary.

How many of these sort of posts do we see all the time on dodgy dealer & bad livery pages and the likes, usually followed with a completely different version of events and none of us as outsiders will ever really know the full truth of the matter.

There is still a person at the centre of all of this who has just been blasted across social media and is now the centre of a witch-hunt based on:

  • One disgruntled owners facebook post
  • One picture taken at a weird angle of a slightly skinny horse with no real context
  • What appears to be a perfectly healthy competition horse that lacked some muscle and topline
  • One persons experience that, at some point, she was quite blase about coming down to do her horses and expected other people to hay and feed them
Specifically regarding Olaf, knowing the work, care and conditioning it takes to keep horses competing at the high levels, I still just struggle to understand how you would keep a horse looking well and training at PSG if you were leaving it for days on end with no food & water and riding it once a week.
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I see both sides of this - I know neither party and have simply seen both sides on social media. I completely understand where you are coming from but MD's own explanation of the circs is what doesn't sit quite right for me. I just don't understand why an owner would immediately have a horse collected, without passport, and not tell rider where the horse is going unless they have welfare concerns. This coupled with the horse being rather undermuscled for a horse at that level, in particular with a rider whose interest lies in biomechanics doesn't make much sense to me either. There is always two sides to the story, and often the reality is somewhere in between!
 
Barklands said:
I see both sides of this - I know neither party and have simply seen both sides on social media. I completely understand where you are coming from but MD's own explanation of the circs is what doesn't sit quite right for me. I just don't understand why an owner would immediately have a horse collected, without passport, and not tell rider where the horse is going unless they have welfare concerns. This coupled with the horse being rather undermuscled for a horse at that level, in particular with a rider whose interest lies in biomechanics doesn't make much sense to me either. There is always two sides to the story, and often the reality is somewhere in between!
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Hmmm, personally I do see why an owner would do this - if they were being financially unscrupulous. I wonder whether the other syndicate members know where Olaf has been taken? But you are right, none of us knows the full story.
 
Barklands said:
I see both sides of this - I know neither party and have simply seen both sides on social media. I completely understand where you are coming from but MD's own explanation of the circs is what doesn't sit quite right for me. I just don't understand why an owner would immediately have a horse collected, without passport, and not tell rider where the horse is going unless they have welfare concerns. This coupled with the horse being rather undermuscled for a horse at that level, in particular with a rider whose interest lies in biomechanics doesn't make much sense to me either. There is always two sides to the story, and often the reality is somewhere in between!
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You could equally say the timeline of events is confusing if there are welfare concerns.

  1. 2 horses are advertised for sale in Sept, around October they are then removed by the syndicate and shipped to the co-owners yard who announces she is returning to competitive dressage and promptly advertises one as being for sale with her and wants to keep the ride on him.
  2. Olaf is not removed because apparently they tried to remove him and were physically assaulted by MD, but they were able to retrieve the other horses? did they try to take him at the same time or another date? why did they not then take him for another 3 months? Why did they not immediately publicise the welfare concerns to force her to hand him over at the time? They have since been able to take the horse without issue?
  3. Olaf is advertised for sale because the co-owner wants to release the funds she has tied up in him, the same co-owner who is trying to raise funds to buy out the share in the horse she wants to keep the ride on.
  4. Olaf is still being advertised for sale from MD's yard, has not been retrieved and no welfare concerns have been raised for him.
  5. MD starts a GFM to raise the money to buy the owner out so she doesn't have to return him.
  6. Everything kicks off.
 
PurpleSpots said:
No, Olaf's competition name is Jaguar VOD. He is a 2014 gelding, by Davino VOD out of a Rubinstein I mare.

Jagger/Jaegger/Jaeger/Jaegerbomb/Horse J is a completely different horse. He is a 2016 gelding by Johnson out of a Furstenball mare.

ETA: Sorry, cross-posted with DabDab.

ETA2: Hmmm, I'm not sure that the widely and repeatedly shared breeding details of Horse J are specifically accurate, as there's no record of a 2016 male horse by Johnson with the damsire of Furstenball, or even a 2016 male horse by Furstenball with the damsire of Johnson (just in case the sire and damsire had been written the wrong way around), listed on Horsetelex that I can find. There may be a simple explanation in that the horse simply isn't on the system, or perhaps Horse J isn't strictly by Johnson out of a Furstenball mare, as '2016 Johnson x Furstenball' would normally signify - perhaps those horses are further back in the pedigree?

The pedigree for Jaguar VOD is correct, as it will have been verified by BD before he was given affiliated status.

​

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Horse J = Jaeger Bomb also has an affiliated record with BD, Johnson x Furstenball exactly the breeding that has been mentioned/shared multiple times.
 
daffy44 said:
Horse J = Jaeger Bomb also has an affiliated record with BD, Johnson x Furstenball exactly the breeding that has been mentioned/shared multiple times.
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Ahhhhh I have found his record now - huge apologies for my incorrect earlier post. No idea why I failed to find it when I searched the first time! Must've had a couple of letters the wrong way around or something. (ETA: No, it was the lack of a gap between the two words - searching 'jaegerbomb' only returns the grey gelding of that name, but searching 'jaeger bomb' returns Horse J AND the grey gelding.)

He appears to not have been actively affiliated when MD was competing him though, or competed unaffiliated, as there are no results for him past 2024, or with anyone apart from TB.
 
Ah, regarding the 'low' recent scores mentioned a few posts ago, this is lifted from SM about that horse from a competition on Jan 16th (yesterday):

'After finishing last year with a wonderful 74%, these last couple weeks S’s season has left her feeling a bit tight, disgruntled and quite sassy - she did a sweet test today, she’s still new to novice and despite some season related tightness (physio booked) causing her to change out in canter or break (earning us a 1, a 4 and two 5’s) and not step through in the downwards transitions (against hand) she managed 64% and a first with lots of higher marks helping balance the moments of tension - physio is booked for next week.

She’s truly a lovely mare, sensitive and opinionated but I don’t mind that 😆 hoping after physio and her season having peaked this last week, we can come out next weekend with her feeling more herself and show the judges just what we’ve been working on 💪🏼 progress isn’t linear and I think more so with young/ more hormonal horses. But it’s a lovely journey and all is information to help us help her more❤️'

One of the comments states:
{Regumate} 'made no difference to her, owners had ovaries scanned too and they’re fine!'

Sharing this in its entirety as I think it's only fair.
 
PurpleSpots said:
Ahhhhh I have found his record now - huge apologies for my incorrect earlier post. No idea why I failed to find it when I searched the first time! Must've had a couple of letters the wrong way around or something. (ETA: No, it was the lack of a gap between the two words - searching 'jaegerbomb' only returns the grey gelding of that name, but searching 'jaeger bomb' returns Horse J AND the grey gelding.)

He appears to not have been actively affiliated when MD was competing him though, or competed unaffiliated, as there are no results for him past 2024, or with anyone apart from TB.
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So when he first arrived at MD’s in early 2025 looking very tense and tight, and not as glossy/thick as the “before” picture TB provided, he’d actually been with TB his whole life before that and she’d been competing him until end of 2024 (albeit with what look like deteriorating scores towards the end)? So his body condition fluctuated noticeably while in work under TB, and when she handed him over he was prone to BTV and had very little in the way of relaxation? And now according to her he apparently looks the best he’s ever looked with LZ (as he’s running through changes or other movements while she holds onto his mouth)? Interesting.

Out of interest, as I’m not from TB’s area and wasn’t familiar with her, is she well known? She describes herself as an “Grand Prix, international GB” rider on SM. After looking at BD and FEI records that seems … generous.
 
groat said:
So when he first arrived at MD’s in early 2025 looking very tense and tight, and not as glossy/thick as the “before” picture TB provided, he’d actually been with TB his whole life before that and she’d been competing him until end of 2024 (albeit with what look like deteriorating scores towards the end)? So his body condition fluctuated noticeably while in work under TB, and when she handed him over he was prone to BTV and had very little in the way of relaxation? And now according to her he apparently looks the best he’s ever looked with LZ (as he’s running through changes or other movements while she holds onto his mouth)? Interesting.

Out of interest, as I’m not from TB’s area and wasn’t familiar with her, is she well known? She describes herself as an “Grand Prix, international GB” rider on SM. After looking at BD and FEI records that seems … generous.
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I wonder if the lack of competing affiliated was a sore point for TB too, especially if they expected him to be out improving his record and competing at a certain level. From her posts, MD seemed to want to take her time with him and encourage more relaxation. On the other hand in the interest of fairness perhaps she just wasn’t bothering to put the work in to get him back out competing which caused friction with the owners, who knows.

I didn’t follow MD before but have since this thread and she posts a lot of stories on IG of her with the horses, daily care, working them etc. Did anyone follow her previously? If she’s always posted this stuff it kind of disputes that she’s not actively looking after her horses day to day, unless it’s only just started as a positive PR exercise.
 
KikiDee said:
I wonder if the lack of competing affiliated was a sore point for TB too, especially if they expected him to be out improving his record and competing at a certain level. From her posts, MD seemed to want to take her time with him and encourage more relaxation. On the other hand in the interest of fairness perhaps she just wasn’t bothering to put the work in to get him back out competing which caused friction with the owners, who knows.

I didn’t follow MD before but have since this thread and she posts a lot of stories on IG of her with the horses, daily care, working them etc. Did anyone follow her previously? If she’s always posted this stuff it kind of disputes that she’s not actively looking after her horses day to day, unless it’s only just started as a positive PR exercise.
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Well, I've followed her for a while. I think she has her fluctuations in how often she posts, but it's definitely not a completely new thing. LZ was always posting lots about MD too, all of it very complimentary!
 
groat said:
So when he first arrived at MD’s in early 2025 looking very tense and tight, and not as glossy/thick as the “before” picture TB provided, he’d actually been with TB his whole life before that and she’d been competing him until end of 2024 (albeit with what look like deteriorating scores towards the end)? So his body condition fluctuated noticeably while in work under TB, and when she handed him over he was prone to BTV and had very little in the way of relaxation? And now according to her he apparently looks the best he’s ever looked with LZ (as he’s running through changes or other movements while she holds onto his mouth)? Interesting.

Out of interest, as I’m not from TB’s area and wasn’t familiar with her, is she well known? She describes herself as an “Grand Prix, international GB” rider on SM. After looking at BD and FEI records that seems … generous.
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I hadn't heard of her, but that's probably just me!
 
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