I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Its a 55% share shes repaying
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- Thread starter Muddywellies
- Start date
Its a 55% share shes repaying
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Because its a scam. Whatever way you look at this 55% of that horse is not worth 80k. If someone invested 80k, then more fool them as they should have lost about 70k of their investment. Thats how investments work, sometimes you win, sometimes you make a bad decision and lose. Why are the general public being asked to pay back an investor who clearly has money to burn?
The horse should have been valued and sold at market value. And going back to the original investment, where the hell did that money go?? It didnt go on the purchase price, so where?
FieldOrnaments
Well-Known Member
Most of the forum are not rich enough not to have had to make sacrifices in their lives to fit horses in round jobs, family and life in general. don't think it's hateful to be somewhat incredulous that someone can have the nerve to expect others to pay for what they have worked for.
If the horse is as talented as is purported can she not take out a business loan to purchase the share? Then, all being well, pay it back through winnings or sponsorship money. It would be risky (if winnings never appeared!) but arguably no more risky than expecting strangers to fund your dream; what if no one donates or if people do donate, all those donors expect a stake of prize money or feel they have a right to the animal.
I am a cruel cynic maybe, but if you want something you work for it, rather than waiting for others to rescue you, or if you do have help, pay that back down the line. Nothing in life is free, though I would concur that he's been hugely over valued.
It also frankles especially for me because as a 15/16yo I restarted under saddle a lovely cob mare, we adored each other and if there is such a thing, she was my 'heart horse'. The owner said he'd paid 3k for her and once she was riding again wouldn't part with her for less than 5k absolute minimum, though he even set eyes on her more than once in an 18 month period, and she spent most of her life standing in a grotty ragwort filled barbed wire fenced field by the road. I couldn't afford that money, never bought her, and I found out last year she had colicked and been pts. So yeah.... Seeing someone expecting others to buy their heart horse for them bloody annoys me.
If the horse is as talented as is purported can she not take out a business loan to purchase the share? Then, all being well, pay it back through winnings or sponsorship money. It would be risky (if winnings never appeared!) but arguably no more risky than expecting strangers to fund your dream; what if no one donates or if people do donate, all those donors expect a stake of prize money or feel they have a right to the animal.
I am a cruel cynic maybe, but if you want something you work for it, rather than waiting for others to rescue you, or if you do have help, pay that back down the line. Nothing in life is free, though I would concur that he's been hugely over valued.
It also frankles especially for me because as a 15/16yo I restarted under saddle a lovely cob mare, we adored each other and if there is such a thing, she was my 'heart horse'. The owner said he'd paid 3k for her and once she was riding again wouldn't part with her for less than 5k absolute minimum, though he even set eyes on her more than once in an 18 month period, and she spent most of her life standing in a grotty ragwort filled barbed wire fenced field by the road. I couldn't afford that money, never bought her, and I found out last year she had colicked and been pts. So yeah.... Seeing someone expecting others to buy their heart horse for them bloody annoys me.
daffy44
Well-Known Member
I dont know Milly, but she seems like a nice girl, and a lovely rider, and I'm sure anyone who loves their animals can empathize with how much she wants to keep the horse.
But, the horse was bought as an investment, not as her forever horse, so this day, sad as it is for her, was always likely to happen. I understand how incredibly enticing it is to have a lovely horse offered to you, and in that situation you can gloss over the fact that it is not your horse to keep, I was offered something similar once, and I declined because I couldnt face not owning the horse, and one day having to face this exact reality.
I have noticed that Milly is fond of an exaggeration or two, but even so, this valuation is insane, and it bears not even a passing nod to reality.
But, the horse was bought as an investment, not as her forever horse, so this day, sad as it is for her, was always likely to happen. I understand how incredibly enticing it is to have a lovely horse offered to you, and in that situation you can gloss over the fact that it is not your horse to keep, I was offered something similar once, and I declined because I couldnt face not owning the horse, and one day having to face this exact reality.
I have noticed that Milly is fond of an exaggeration or two, but even so, this valuation is insane, and it bears not even a passing nod to reality.
HaplessHorse
Well-Known Member
This is certainly a sad situation for her, but bad things happen, and she knew this was a possibility and could’ve prepared for it herself, without relying on the generosity of the general public.
I’m also dubious about this valuation.
I’m also dubious about this valuation.
LadyGascoyne
Still Fig-uring it out...
That's my feeling too. If a rider makes the decision to commercialise what they do and take investment money for a business venture, then that's fantastic for them and I wish them all the best. But running horses as a business and seeking to benefit from making an investment asset of them means that you have to be professional and grown up enough to take the negative consequences on the chin.
Part of turning a horse into a business asset is acknowledging that these horses will have to be sold or their shares will have to be sold when investors want an exit. I have huge respect for anyone brave enough to make horses a professional / business endeavor. I'm not (and sometimes I wish I was because then I could afford much more exciting competition horses). But there is no business in which you seek investment to grow what you're doing and to be able to achieve things you'd never afford to do alone, where there isn't a trade off of having to make hard decisions and not to let your heart rule your head.
It's a hard lesson to learn but it's a necessary one if you've made those choices and benefited from taking an investment route to securing the ride on a horse.
What doesn't sit well with me is treating the horse as a business asset when it suits, and then, when that hasn't worked out, pulling on the heart strings of the public by framing it as a 'heart horse' / best friend / pet and taking money from people who probably could never in their dreams be able to afford a £100k horse. I feel like that's exploiting the kindness of others to avoid the consequences of making a business choice that is now regretted.
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
I've been thinking about this. It seems to me like theres a reasonable chance this is an actual bona fide scam organised by Millie. She got 100k, spent 15k on the horse and the rest is never mentioned. If you are cyncial it would seem that money has now run out, and she needs another huge cash injection and now magically an investor has to be repaid, making a fairly large profit on their investment. if they own 55% then they invested 55k, and now they are been given 80k? Why is there such a large discrepancy? Is there any proof of this investor?
Even if its not and this is a genuine thing, shes asking the general public to pay her investor a profit of 31.5% based on hugely inflated made up figures. WTAF?! Its obscene.
Even if its not and this is a genuine thing, shes asking the general public to pay her investor a profit of 31.5% based on hugely inflated made up figures. WTAF?! Its obscene.
HopOnTrot
Well-Known Member
He was sold to new owners, she kept the ride, new owners want to sell, I don’t think the value estimate is wildly off, I know of kids locally with six figure ponies (not mine, ours weren’t even four figures 
). Seller has offered a price, she’s accepted and is trying to fund it.
). Seller has offered a price, she’s accepted and is trying to fund it.
daffy44
Well-Known Member
@LadyGascoyne I totally agree, horses as business assets is hard, and it requires the rider to be tough and realistic. Personally, I know I'm not tough enough, I love my horses too much to be able to be business like about them, my job is teaching, my horses are my own. It was a number of years ago I was offered that sort of opportunity and it was very tempting, but for better or worse I'm a sensible soul, and when I calmed down and really thought it through, I knew that I couldnt bear to put years of work and love into a horse just to have it sold from me. So I did what I could with my personal budget and bought a foal instead, it worked out very well for me, and I ended up turning down 250K for the horse, but if I had to take anyone elses opinion into account I'm pretty sure I would have had to sell that horse, but as he was entirely mine I could cheerfully turn down the money. Like I said, I cant treat horses as business assets!
Milly accepted that this horse was part of a business plan, so this day can not be a surprise, as you say, you cant have it both ways.
Milly accepted that this horse was part of a business plan, so this day can not be a surprise, as you say, you cant have it both ways.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
He was for sale for 15k before she got him on loan for 2 years
it was after those 2 years that he was bought for 100k
(which is why I said should have bought him at 15. . )
SEL
Well-Known Member
I've met Milly (she used to train down at Mary Wanless's place) and this won't be a scam - I do think it is exactly as Daffy has said in that she has been training a talented horse whose owners now want out. I presume that figure is what they have been offered for him and I'm sure I saw a post saying he'll go overseas. So someone wants a horse who has already had the hard work put in and they can just get on and compete at whatever the level is. Hardly the first time that has happened, but gutting for her no doubt as she doesn't have a string of horses training PSG/ GP / etc
I feel for her but I doubt a syndicate will come together.
I feel for her but I doubt a syndicate will come together.
VictoriaSponge
Well-Known Member
if she doesn’t secure the full amount to buy the horse, what will happen to the donations already made?
ester
Not slacking multitasking
she says on the GFM refunded if over £25 or donated elsewhere (there will be a vote)
VictoriaSponge
Well-Known Member
That’s concerns me a but as the majority of the donations are £10/£20 amounts, she could create a fair total from lots of smaller donations with no obligation to spend them morally. I’m not suggesting she has any deliberately bad intentions but makes me uneasy.
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
Obviously cant see the reason for the "fundraiser" but get the gist 
I dont agree with people fundraising for a luxury hobby. I didnt like when Emily King was entitled and wanted a horse bought for her (where is he now, by the way? Thought he was supposed to be incredible...)
Same for SV one for Harry (wonder what happened to the money raised after he was pts, funny how theres been no update...)
There are some deserved ones out there, id be far far more inclined to donate to one for a local family who's entire home and belongings have burnt down.
Donating just for a luxury, just no. It then makes me more cynical about the genuine ones
I feel people who donate to the more entitled ones are mugs. Why not sell other things towards the cost you need. Especially when there are ones on there for families who have lost everything in devastating circumstances
Gfm needs some serious regulation
I dont agree with people fundraising for a luxury hobby. I didnt like when Emily King was entitled and wanted a horse bought for her (where is he now, by the way? Thought he was supposed to be incredible...)
Same for SV one for Harry (wonder what happened to the money raised after he was pts, funny how theres been no update...)
There are some deserved ones out there, id be far far more inclined to donate to one for a local family who's entire home and belongings have burnt down.
Donating just for a luxury, just no. It then makes me more cynical about the genuine ones
I feel people who donate to the more entitled ones are mugs. Why not sell other things towards the cost you need. Especially when there are ones on there for families who have lost everything in devastating circumstances
Gfm needs some serious regulation
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
Granny?I don't get it.
I noticed someone put £10k
PurpleSpots
Well-Known Member
Crazy_cat_lady: '(where is he now, by the way? Thought he was supposed to be incredible...)'
I believe the horse that EK did the GFM for was this one:
www.britisheventing.com
Had more than one fall, few rider falls, and no results since 2021. There's more to it but I can't remember it all now.
Things happen, but it does make you wonder if he was pushed too much because of the GFM and the pressure for results. Yet another reason to question whether horses should be used in sport IMO.
I believe the horse that EK did the GFM for was this one:
LANGFORD TAKE THE BISCUIT
Had more than one fall, few rider falls, and no results since 2021. There's more to it but I can't remember it all now.
Things happen, but it does make you wonder if he was pushed too much because of the GFM and the pressure for results. Yet another reason to question whether horses should be used in sport IMO.
Matafleur
Well-Known Member
Yes, but having looked at the GFM, she is at least totally up front about that. If you're stupid enough to donate money to something like this without reading about it then that's on you (generic, not personal
).
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I've met her and her family too, several years ago, and I do not think this is a scam.
rhino
Well-Known Member
The Emily King horse never really made any progress up the levels with her. It then had an horrific rotational accident with her boyfriend riding, he ended up with multiple skull fractures etc. it has done some U18 stuff more recently with a pro’s son.
Have there been any successful results of GFM horses? Art obviously had some good results, but also a nasty tendency to hang a leg XC…
Have there been any successful results of GFM horses? Art obviously had some good results, but also a nasty tendency to hang a leg XC…
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I actually think this is really unfair to call it a scam. I am 100% convinced it’s not.
I am however 100% convinced this is a naive young person about to get a real world awakening!
ihatework
Well-Known Member
The EK horse from the outset was a WTAF moment. Not only did the horse never scream out to be an UL event horse, but the way the GFM was marketed was obscene. That was borderline scam imo.
Art was just a very sad state of affairs. But actually, for the most part, the syndicate was pretty straightforward and people were signing up for something transparent. It was up to them. I just wish Jonty had paired Art up with a talented junior after his accident. I would maybe have given Jonty a teeny tiny bit of recognition for that.
TheMule
Well-Known Member
It appears the biggest mistake she has made in all of this is not getting it down in writing to allow herself to benefit from any increase in value, both when she bought the horse originally (15k to 100k because of the work she put in is WILD, she was very naive to allow that) and when the ‘investors’ bought shares in the horse (albeit it is very hard to justify the perceived increase in value to 150k)
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SEL
Well-Known Member
Yup - she won't make that mistake again.
Dressage horses who know their stuff do seem to command high prices but I guess if you don't want to train something up then it will always be £££
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Crikey, I hadn’t twigged that it was the GFM horse that Sam fell with at Kelsall in 2021
. Sam was very seriously injured indeed. The potential superstar horse was then 9 and was competing in an Open Novice class 
.
Young British eventer in hospital after rotational fall
Sam Ecroyd, 24, is in hospital with multiple injuries following a rotational cross-country fall in the open novice section at Kelsall Hill Horse Trials
www.horseandhound.co.uk
Sam, 24, was riding the nine-year-old gelding Langford Take The Biscuit in an open novice section at Kelsall Hill on Sunday (25 April) when they fell on the cross-country.
PurpleSpots
Well-Known Member
I am surprised her family weren't more aware of this potential outcome though - her Dad is a rider, coach, judge and author in the dressage world?
Langford Take the Biscuit also fell twice with EK XC - once in 2019 and once in 2020 according to his results.
He also unseated the rider in the U18 classes twice in the SJ phase in 2021 (after the fall where SA was injured).
He's not competed BE since then according to his results. Hope he (and the people of course) is ok.
Langford Take the Biscuit also fell twice with EK XC - once in 2019 and once in 2020 according to his results.
He also unseated the rider in the U18 classes twice in the SJ phase in 2021 (after the fall where SA was injured).
He's not competed BE since then according to his results. Hope he (and the people of course) is ok.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
Matafleur
Well-Known Member
Only with good results/scores though.
Sanversera
Well-Known Member
This 100%,very well put.
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
And she paid 100k? and hes now worth 150k? doesnt seem likely given hes a nice horse but nothing outstanding.