Problems feeding alfalfa... need a new chaff for tb!

You're right - when I talked to the rep at Your Horse Live she led me to believe it didn't.... hummmmm....

Stick to Just Grass then - def no molasses in that.

There's a big gap in the market for a molasses free, dried mixed species (rye grass free) grass mixed with dried herbs - come on feed companies... get your act together!
 
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Its not always about killing the horse though! The horse may be ok without chaff but its digestion could be BETTER with it. Especially if the horse is a poor do-er.
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Agreed
 
-He has ad-lib hay overnight, so far I have never seen him eat all that I give him. He also gets a few little piles in the field as the grass isn't fab (although not bare).

He is already on pink powder.
 
Mine (all three ex-racers) are on mollichaff showshine. I took one off it because the alfalfa is very high in calcium and it gave him kidney stones (spent a fortune with the vet to find that out!) Since he's been off it he's been fine touch wood and he's a much happier horse.

As alfalfa is high in calcium it may need to be supplemented by magnesium. Low magnesium levels can cause spookiness/exciatbility and other behavioural problems so it may be more to do with the calcium content of the alfalfa rather than the sugar. I know lots of people that feed alfalfa and then use a magnesium based calmer!!

Not an alfalfa fan, as you can tell!
 
hi, i never feed my anglo-arab chaff in his feed. he is a highly strung poor doer, so when in work i feed a build-up mix and at rest a leisure mix. Always pink powder and ad lib haylege. he looks great and he does not have any grazing. Hope this helps.
 
It's amazing what a difference feed can make, especially to those ultra sensitive horses. Your EP will no doubt talk you through everything but in preparation for his shoes coming off you could start to add a magnesium oxide supplement to his feed. Mag Ox aids the breakdown of sugars before they can form toxins which is what causes your horse to react (and will make his feet more sensitive) and is very commonly given to barefoot horses - for some it makes all the difference between sound and footy. Don't spend a fortune on the branded magnesium supplements in the shops - much cheaper to buy from ebay.

It can also be a good idea to give a liver tonic - a healthy liver will expel the toxins before they can cause damage to the feet. Ronfields Remount is a great one.

Without wanting to cast gloom because I think it's great you're trying barefoot with him, you might find it much harder work than other people with less sensitive horses. There are horses that have to be kept off grass altogether - even small amounts of grass can make them footy. You can of course use hoof boots but some people get very disheartened when their horse doesn't grow stronger feet... 90% of the time this is down to being grass intolerant. But it's important to note that simply putting shoes on those sensitive horses does not make them any less sensitive - shoes simply mask the pain. So the ultra sensitive horse who has been footy whilst barefoot may seem 'sound' when the shoes go back on but the problem is still there. His feet will be being attacked by toxins and weakened more and more... which may well be a cause of navicular syndrome. The damage being done is hidden but will have a far greater negative effect further down the line.
 
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Rotchana - Hi-fi has molasses in it!

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Plus alfalfa!

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Yikes - I thought it was low in molasses and had no alfalfa.
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I've now looked it up and you're right!!
It's what my TB was fed before coming to me, so I have kept her on it, to reduce fizz, as recommended by previous owner.
If anyone can recommend anything else, please do, I'm all for stopping her laterally walking down the road. PLEASE!!!
 
gedenskis girl- can i ask a question? Alot of barefoot converts say that horses are intolerant to grass and/or sugar and this causes feet to be sensitive even on non-stony ground. Where has this idea come from? Can you direct me to research on this please?
 
I really don't like alfafa for horses; it is a legume not a grass, and doesn't suit quite a few of them. For non-heating weight gain try oil, and for chaff something like Happy Hoof is good. Speedibeet is good stuff though. It's often a bit trial and error finding a feeding regime that works.
 
Another vote for D&H Just Grass. My horse went off his alfa-a, but has various allergies that bring him out in a rash (urticaria) every Winter.

This winter I have fed him Just Grass with his nuts & he has been so much better. This is all he has, and he hasn't dropped any weight at all this winter - even through the snow.
 
Safe & Sound doesn't contain alfalfa but it is lightly molassed, if that's a problem then I'd go for no chaff or a dried grass.

If you want to slow down his eating & make him chew more then why not spread his feed on his hay (assuming you feed his hay on the floor of course!)? They pick up hay at the same time as their feed & that makes them chew properly, plus they eat more slowly as they can't grab big mouthfuls. Cheap, easy & effective!
 
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_hp_ I thought/assumed you had to feed quick beet with a chaff?

*melts in a confused feed related puddle*

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I feed my tb Fast Fibre. It is mollasses and cereal free so is ideal for those that are sensitive to those things. It needs soaking so is similar to speedibeet but is a complete feed containing vits and mins so no real need for anything else if you feed the recommended amount. It is absolutely fine to eat without chaff as are all feeds.
Yes chaff is useful if your horse bolts his food but not essential for most.
I would definitely avoid Happy Hoof and most chaffs if you need to steer clear of sugar and alfalfa.
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Feeding doesn't have to be complicated but unfortunately there are so many different feeds on the market it can get that way.

I would start off with ad lib hay/haylage...then if more is needed add something simple like Fast Fibre and take it from there. Maybe add some oil if you need more calories..
 
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Safe & Sound doesn't contain alfalfa but it is lightly molassed, if that's a problem then I'd go for no chaff or a dried grass.

If you want to slow down his eating & make him chew more then why not spread his feed on his hay (assuming you feed his hay on the floor of course!)? They pick up hay at the same time as their feed & that makes them chew properly, plus they eat more slowly as they can't grab big mouthfuls. Cheap, easy & effective!

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Thanks, yes Hay is on the floor, never through to put the feed on it like that, thanks!
 
Yet another vote for Just Grass fron D&H. OH and I even have it ordered in specially and collect from main distributor as it is hard to get over here.

My stressy TB adores it, and has been so much calmer since I started using it.

Damp it well is the only advice I would give though.

Fiona
 
Any vegetable based oil - e.g. sunflower, vegetable or olive. Don't use cod liver or other animal based oils as horses don't have the enzymes to properly digest them (they are herbivores after all!). Also makes their coat shiny!
 
The idea comes from laminitis itself - the dietry cause and consequent pain in the hoof is well researched. The same processes (laminae/supercorium) attacked by toxins become inflamed) produces foot pain (both hoof wall and solar), causing footiness in barefoot horses. Shod horses will suffer in the same way but lameness is masked by shoes (painful soles prevented from touching the ground, plus the circulation in shod hooves is severely compromised so fewer toxins get into the hoof to attack the laminae).

I don't know of any research specific to barefoot horses and grass intake but there has been much research into the processes causing laminitis and associated hoof pain. For barefoot horses the proof is anecdotal but has been proven again and again - put certain horses on grass and they beccome footy, often within 24/48 hours. Take those same horses off grass and they'll come sound just as rapidly. It's a logical outcome from what we know about laminitis.
 
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I'm sorry but I simply don't understand your post.

As far as I know there isn't any sugar in alfalfa. However, there is sugar/molasses in both sugar beet and some nuts/cubes (molasses is the binding agent)
So I don't quite understand how changing the chaff when he is on what sounds like a sugar laden diet will improve anything.
<font color="blue"> Alfalfa IS very low in sugar but there is a type of protein in it that can and does affect some horses so the OP is quite right to change it as it appears that her horse is one of the 20% that are affected, for the other 80% it is a fantastic product. </font>

Low sugar chaff - Dodson and Horrell Fibergy - worked a treat on a sugar intolerant pony we used to own.

<font color="blue">But contains alfalfa </font>

Alison27 - that is VERY INTERESTING and confirms everything I suspected - that Happy Hoof (Happychaff as you call it) is the worst of the lot despite being approved by the Laminitis Trust. I hope others read this who shot me down in flames when I blamed the Happy Hoof for sending my sugar intolerant pony loopy and got poo pooed by them.

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<font color="blue">I agree with you here, btw, what not many people seem to realise is that the Laminitis Trust is a commercial concern and the feed companies have to pay £10k plus for the approval - all that approval means is that it will do no harm - no tests etc have actually been undertaken - this is a personal bugbear of mine. As for Happy Hoof, anything intended for a laminitic should imho contain a good foot supplement, to get the recommended daily intake of biotin from Happy Hoof alone you would have to feed practically half a bag!

OP there are lots of alternatives on the market, D&amp;H Just grass has been mentioned, Badminton Ultra Grass is also fab, these both have a similar feed value to alfalfa with a DA of approx 10.5 - 11 and a protein level of around 9%, they are higher in sugars but do not seem to cause the temperament problems associated with alfalfa. If you are looking for a low sugar fibre Speedibeet is good, only 6% starch but with a good DE of around 11 and can be safely fed to laminitics. I personally would steer clear of the straw based chaffs as they are covered in mollasses in the main. </font>
 
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If you're worried about sugar don't feed sugar beet! If he's loopy, stick to hi-fi lite or happy hooves and some pony nuts.

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Normal sugar beet = 26% sugar
Speedibeet - 6%

Anything under 10% is considered low sugar

Hi-Fi Lite contains alfalfa - the OPs horse cannot have alfalfa
 
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I'd thought that possibly the sugar in our Alfalfa that made him a pain in the arse so started him on Dengie Healthy Hooves, a low sugar alfalfa and pellet chaff. He's been on it since Monday, he's a miserable nightmare
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But, alfalfa is meant to be great for tb's
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So, I need a chaff! He needs something with no sugar and no alfalfa. As the Healthy Hooves isn't working out he's just going to get sugar beet and nuts. He's accidentally ended up out of work at the moment and although a poor doer he does condition score at around 2.3, by normal standards a tad under but by his standards he's good.

Once the speedibeet is finished I'm going to change him to calm and condition (if he likes it). But again that's been advised to feed with a chaff.

Help! (sick to death of researching horse feed
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I've also spoken to the various feed companies but they of course only ever advise on one brand of feed...

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OP is your horse a good doer or does he need weight on?
 
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OP is your horse a good doer or does he need weight on?

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Wight wise he's doing well for him, still quite light but mainly lack of muscle, this is him on Monday:
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He's not doing much in the way of work at the moment.

[he's not usually out naked in January but we moved yards and he sweated up in the lorry and the only rug available was a h/w so he went out in the nude... and rolled...]
 
Saracen are bringing out a new straw based slim chaff which they are saying will be about 5 - 8% sugar - not out yet though.
Honeychop do a just straw chaff too but as it has no flavouring you would probably use it bulk out something tasty.
Unfortunately it's just trial and error, my TB is fine with alfalfa but goes airborn at a sniff of speedibeet/kwikbeet/easibeet.
 
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I really don't like alfafa for horses; it is a legume not a grass, and doesn't suit quite a few of them. For non-heating weight gain try oil, and for chaff something like Happy Hoof is good. Speedibeet is good stuff though. It's often a bit trial and error finding a feeding regime that works.

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Happy hoof contains alfalfa too.......If you think your horse really is intolerant to alfalfa -some are most are not, then feed a pure dried grass product. Alfalfa is a good feed for the majority of horses being much easier to digest than many cereal based diets.
 
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