Producing Too Slowly?!

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Forget_Me_Not

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Following Prev Posts. I have had dermot for a few months a cuple of which I have been injured with a broken ankle *Pretty damaged after having a horse falling on top of me* Dermot was for sale because the owners had brought him for eventing etc thinking he was pretty much ready to go, When they mounted he bucked like hell and it became clear he was not suitable and needed backing. So I took him on after veiwing a horse which I felt looked totaly confused and unsure. Within days of Dermot arriving it became clear he hadn't had proper handling as such and athlough didn't try to dominate he wasn't acceptant of humans. If you became the littest bit firm he paniced shot up and off, breaking free, turning around etc. So we began work on getting a relasonship, trust and understanding. Then we worked on the lunge, to begin it could take like 10mins to get him to responed to command, face the right direction etc. We then worked on getting him to relax with me on the mounting block at his shoulder higher *he had linked this with mounting and wasn't keen* We have then prog to mounting, walk, trot, canter, stirring, hault, working in an outline and little bending. We also go out inhand to get him used to all the things hes likely to met etc. All in all I've spent about 2 1/2 months working on him. So to be honest I don't care that his rising six and Isn't out on the circuit, There is no rush, I am not going to slowly but am giving him plenty of time to settle, accept and work things out for him self. Im my books a horses prime is in its teens.. We have ages!
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But for now I look forward to starting inhand* and working up. *Almost have him understanding trotting up!
 
Good for you!

It takes more time to get a badly broken/handled horse into a relaxed frame of mind to accept something, it can sometimes take twice as long as something hardly touched so I feel personally, that you are on the right lines and wish you the best of luck with him.
 
Sounds pretty much the same as my rising 5 sports pony (warmblood x arab - her previous owner sold her as 'boring', which is kind of interesting because sitting on her was like sitting on a fizzing stick of dynamite, the only questions were how big was the explosion going to be and when would it go off...)

so anyway - she bucked for England when we put a saddle on her and lunged her so we went back to basics and worked with pressure and release and (whisper it) clicker training and she's less of a wooden giraffe and more of a loose, long low pony, which is what we're after. it feels like watching paint dry at times, but then I think back to where we were at christmas when she was almost impossible to bring in from the field...

so - slow is fine if you know where you're going

E
 
The general concensus is that it takes at least three times as long to fix an issue as it existed beforehand. (If indeed, the problem can get completely solved at all.) Horses are individuals and each situation is different. The problem with expecting everything to go by the book is that horses don't read books . . .

By the way, unless you are a professional producer and have been silly enough to guarantee certain results, who cares how long it takes? If you have a horse for enjoyment and you are enjoying the process isn't that the point of the exercise?
 
I have read the recent posts with confusion and interest.

In all honesty the impression I get is that you might be a bit frightened of this horse. I certainly wouldn't blame you, I think I would be the same after the recent nasty fall! He's a big lad. If you do feel a little bit out of your depth I really hope you can get some help.

Of course I could be WAY off the mark, you talk a lot about your experience breaking and schooling, perhaps I have got the wrong idea- if so I look forward to seeing you on board soon
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[ QUOTE ]
If you have a horse for enjoyment and you are enjoying the process isn't that the point of the exercise?


[/ QUOTE ] Very much so... I adore working with problem and young horses, I enjoy building that relationship, The feeling when things go right and the feeling when you look back and think WOW! I don't plan to sit a buck because I plan to do thing well enough that he shouldn't feel he needs to buck. In theroy.
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Good luck, if that is the case then yes time is a great healer- but I thought you wanted us to tell you how much we thought he was worth and I still believe that you paid way off the mark for him (that was what you wanted to know was it not?!). Esp if he has the behaviour probs you are now telling us.
I really hope that you end up with a lovely well rounded horse and you get many years of enjoyment out of him don't count on there being no bucks though!!!!!
Will follow your progress with great interest
XKate
 
Ditto what katycrunch says above. I actually didn't know you had sat on him, that he has got established w/t/c, works up into the bridle and doesn't buck anymore when doing this
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The only way that the bucking issue can be resolved is from his back, but it appears you have done this, and well done to you
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All of the ground work is great, but what we were all saying in the post previously is that youneed to ensure you continue to work forwards with him. If you have already done the riding work you have said, then I would keep at it ASAP. He really is a lovely chap.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have read the recent posts with confusion and interest.

In all honesty the impression I get is that you might be a bit frightened of this horse. I certainly wouldn't blame you, I think I would be the same after the recent nasty fall! He's a big lad. If you do feel a little bit out of your depth I really hope you can get some help.

Of course I could be WAY off the mark, you talk a lot about your experience breaking and schooling, perhaps I have got the wrong idea- if so I look forward to seeing you on board soon
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Totally agree with what lzt said, but she beat me to it.
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He seems a lovely horse and I hope all works out for you, but I'm quite confused. You do talk about having a lot of experience, but I was under the impression that you are only about 14 and that previous to this you've owned one 13.3 NF pony. I'm quite surprised that your parents would then buy you such a large horse (16.2 or 16.3?! It seems to vary slightly) who has the behaviour problems that you describe. However, I was also very much under the impression that the horse was backed and going fine...?

I'm further confused as to how you keep talking about him being green and how slowly you're bringing him on, but then in your post the other day you said that he had jumped 1m35, no problem...
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Haven't been bucked off to date *Take one good look ground and hold on with my nails for dear life*.... Infact never sat a buck on my backed horses....
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So me thinks if I mount thinking hes going to buck... hes going to buck... he will!
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When he has unsettled with me and gone he had deffinalty thought about...I've sat very quielty and tho a behold he has relaxed and forgetten all about it must be prog!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Ditto what katycrunch says above. I actually didn't know you had sat on him, that he has got established w/t/c, works up into the bridle and doesn't buck anymore when doing this
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Sorry, I must be getting this horse muddled with another then, I thought based on another thread that FMN said he was unbroken?
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Hmmm, you may feel that I am victimising you a bit because of my comments the other day. I completely agree with LZT. To me, you are going slowly and continually making excuses as to why.

Quite how much did you pay for a horse who behaved like you said he does above? To me that is a tad daft, and something does not ring true or right. By noot riding him and getting him going you are seriousely depreciating his value, and if you ever had to sell him for whatever reason (you never know what is round the corner...) You may get a bit of a shock.

I am all for not rushing but as you will see the previous posts the majoity of people agree that you will actually create more problems unless you start getting jiggy pronto.

Unless I am wrong you are a young amateur who sold a pony who was great for you and did everything you asked, but was outgrown...and Dermot is your first horse - i.e. something over 14.2hh.

Maybe, just maybe, he is a little too much and you need some help with him.

I'm sorry but all I see is a youngish horse in inexperienced hands and if you were on my yard I would be helping you or waiting for you to come a crupper if you didnt want help.

The best bond and respect that you get from a horse is if you get on and ride. You get to know them better - life is completely different up there. Bruce, for example, follows me round the yard like a puppy, literally dragging his chin on the floor. When I ride he is a sharp horse who wont think twice about looking at something, and so his education whilst I am mounted, to me, is more vital than his education on the floor (this should be established by the time they are 3 anyway...) because that is what I bought him for, to ride and enjoy.

I really think that you need to get an instructor and some guidance. I also think that you should start riding your horse ASAP and be consistent. You posted pics of you riding back in November - I know you broke your ankle, but why not pick up where you carried on now, start sitting on him for 5-10 mins a day after lungeing, walk and trot.

I know everyone does things differently but underneath all of the gadgets and ways of doing things you will see that most people get the general idea. Lungeing is only going to make him fitter and fitter.

Things like trotting up should be done as a matter of course - 5 mins a day. Youngsters need work and education.

I am not sure where you are located, or if you actually want any help, but I would be happy to come and help you with him. I think that he is a beautiful horse and it woudl be a shame to see him go to waste.

Swallow the lump at the back of your throat, get up and riding.
 
As regards to my experince years of working with youngsters, and turning around fair number of horses. Lol not just liberty, but she was just one that was very special to me. I have no fear of Dermot and dont feel 'out of my dept' thanxs. Dermot is not the biggest I have worked with either. I wouldn't say Dermot was backed but I think the term is pretty loose hes some were inbetween. Dermot will not be for sale. I didn't inc what he had done when I first asked because I wondered hes value of quality. I posted this because i am feed up with all the...get creaking, your going backwards, etc etc.
 
Right, FMN you do need to start being honest here. In your OP you stated that you have worked on him and have w/t/c/ bend and halt. In another post you have stated you have only sat on him 3 times since you bought him. Now you are saying he is NOT backed. Backed means he is being ridden away, so if your OP is correct he IS backed. Can you see the confusion here???

I do think you are being a tad arrogant in the above post saying you have years of experience, and saying that Dermot isn't the biggest you have worked with - no one cares about what you have and have not done, no one will judge you for it, but people WILL judge you if you keep changing your story.
 
Well you posted asking his value and then seemed shocked that people didn't think an unschooled horse was worth much!

I agree with the above posters; you appear to be making excuses and claim you have far more experience than you do.

I certainly agree with taking things slowly but there's a difference between that and just putting it off because you're not really equipped to deal with the situation.

I am also confused as you say above that you've got him working in an outline and working on bend etc but then you say you're not riding him.

Either way, if this isn't the case he looks more than ready to be sat on now, so expect to hear reports of you getting on with riding sooner rather than later.
 
I have sat on him god knows but have ridden Dermy three times to date and have a walk, trot and canter with a little bend... To me that isn't backed or ridden away but some where inbetween but nor is it going to slowly in 2 1/2 months with a problem horse. Some body asked for my experince. I don't see why you care so much. And as i know alot of people on here in person I am being honest in my descripsion thanxs!
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Yes it is backed - if a horse is fine with a rider and responds to aids for different gaits it is DEFINITELY backed!
 
This is a pretty upsetting post to be honest. I posted on here to my best because it bothers me having people thinking badly on me. Thats just sort person I am from the life I have lead. I dont know what sort of person you think I am but to be honest I think you have crossed the line in telling me what i should be doing with a horse you have never met to a person you have never met in a stitualtion you don't know. I never even asked for your adivce.
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I feel like your telling me off when every body who knows me is telling me to be proud.
 
Look. Everyone on here wants to help you. You are not always going to hear what you want to hear. The fact that you have re-posted from the other day shows that it must have been niggling at you. If all you want to hear is praise then dont post and talk to those people that are telling you that you are doing wonderfully.

TBH I think that everyone has been fair in their comments. FFS I have even offered to come and help you out. The reason that I am asking your age is to gage your level of experience in realtion to the age you are. But you havent answered yet!

As I said before, I am trying to help you - as is everyone else.
 
Well then don't post on a forum. You post about your situation, and constantly change details - people are obviously going to have an opinion.

Life is not a bed of roses, and maybe people you know sugarcoat everything but you won't always find that and if you can't hack cold hard opinions than don't post it publically - simple as.
 
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