PSD diagnosis

[dangermouse]

My horse had the operation in both hind legs seven weeks ago. He had nerve blocks, xrays and scans to reach diagnosis and referral for second opinion of the vet who did the surgery. He was on a programme of box rest with in-hand walking starting with 10 minutes and building up to 30 by the end of the 6 weeks. Vet then came to review him and said he could be turned out for couple of hours a day, sedated initially with view to building up to going out for couple of weeks before having physio and then starting ridden work.

He is now lame again and back on box rest, thought it was infection, but didn't respond to antibiotics so hoping he has just clonked himself in field. Will be reviewed in 10 days. I am not entirely sure that in his case op will have solved his problems, but decided to go for it incase insurance ran out and alternatives e.g. shockwave didn't work. Do think about what you want the horse to do after, won't be able to compete under FEI rules and may effect if you want to show, mine has currently got what looks like two curbs on hocks, don't think they will go down, so showing now ruled out.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[SpanishNeddy]

Stencilface
Yes they do support the ligaments, I would defo get some if I were you. Look at premierequine website (they are fab!!) they have loads of special boots. The main 2 I am going to buy are magnetic boots and turnout boots (both state they support ligement & suspensory as well as other things (tendon etc). So defo worth it I think!! oh and yes you can leave on all night but they recommend 4 hours max (but you have to build it up first!), if you look on that website it tells you.

Is a bone scan the same as ultrasound? my horse has only had nerve blocking and xrays. He is getting his ultrasound scan this Tuesday! will be interesting to see what it says. I think my horse is chronic, as pysio said his body was terrible, so ovbiously been over-compensating elsewhere.

Yes I know what you mean when they get excited. My one has had to go into a herd field as he is no longer a schooling livery (of course!!) and he has NEVER been with more than 1 horse before so has been hooning around everyday this week. Keep getting naughty reports from the staff there! he nearly got evicted the monkey haha.

Well you are better off doing it slower than what vet says anyway I would of thought. someone else on here said that and it was a success!

I am totally with you on the caring for them yourself thing. I def agree. I just gone from schooling to DIY!!!! because of it. I am up there at silly times, but nobody would care for your horse like you would. I do like the sound of the spa thing though!! what are the weblinks??? I might consider it for after he has recovered! for a holiday haha.

jacmac
Sorry to hear your one is lame, hopefully its nothing and will be sound soon. How lame was he before op?? was he cronic or accute do you know?

I got my boy to do BD and showing (breed). EEeek does it affect showing then? I phoned british dressage and they said I could still compete if I did do op. But who would I phone for showing?? i do foreign breed and iberian classes. Eeeek that might mean I couldnt go for op then. Saying that a horse at my yard had the op and you would never know. he is grey (same as my one) and I couldnt even find the scars when she asked me to. So maybe they will get better.

Star - thank you!!

 

[dangermouse]

He was not very lame, varying between 4/10th and 2/10ths. initially suspected something wrong as under performing and in fact gave the impression of been lame in front. He also showed occasional signs of being cold backed. Scans showed fairly significant damage and that helped with the decision to go for op rather than shockwave therapy and alternatives.

I am not sure who you would contact re rules of showing, probably your breed society, I meant more that we wouldn't be able to show because with the current curb like inflamation he wouldn't do very well, although I think they may decrease with time.

From all the reports I have heard from others including my physio the op generally seems to be very successful as long as it was the correct diagnosis and not smoke screen for other problems, she told me about a horse she treats who 5 months after op was out cubbing. My friend in Australia has horse who had it and is back one star eventing.

I think my boy is probably just a fluke knock in field, inflamation going down, so hopefully vet might give me some good news when she comes next week.

Have you made a decision yet? I think the only other thing to bear in mind is what facilities you have post op, with winter approaching and the walk in hand phase, I was told not to walk in school as going too deep, so tricky finding somewhere on dark mornings and evenings.

Good luck

 

[stencilface]

SpanishNeddy - nope bone scan is when they inject radioactive stuff into the horse, and then scan them. Any places with additional stress will show up, this only really shows bones, but it will show pressure areas where ligaments etc join onto the bone so can pick up injury areas that way - mine showed up hot points in the middle of his back the same side, over his sacro iliac and on his opposite hock and fetlock. He had to stay over for 3 nights for that, one night before then 2 nights after in an isolation box, as the radioactivity stays in their body for 2 days. It was the first thing recommended for me. Vets bill currently at £2800

TBH, if you haven't had the ultrasound yet - they cannot be sure can they, as that is the only thing that will show up ligament/tendon damage.

Will have a look at some sports medicine boots, can never have enough boots eh?

Interestingly, the xrays showed his vertebrae as being close together, and he is a little cold backed every now and then, although they said its not kissing spines at the moment, although in some horses it would be.

Hoping wearing his magnetic rug might have done some good before the chiro comes out, think he will be in for a long session!

 

[SpanishNeddy]

yes that is what I am worried about, it is smoke screen for something else
It just doesnt make sense, he has only been backed not long and has hardly done enough to warrent a strain injury! I just have this feeling you see! Also, he is SUCH a difficult horse to ride....in fact so hard I had to send him to Warwick McLean to back!!!!!!!!!! who is AMAZING. But maybe it is a sign of something. He used to bolt when first backed (badly too!), got him out of that. He did it when he was first backed and you did something for frst time he used to panic and go and you couldnt stop! very frightening. He is a sensitive boy, in his breed really, but he is VERY easy on the ground....like a dog on a lead, so maybe something not quite right. Also I imported him as unbacked 5 year old.....hmmmm. He was vetted though and passed, his legs are clean etc. I have always wondered about kissing spine, as he isnt great getting on either! (but that is also in the breed, so you just dont know). Wish I could just scan the whole body haha! -too much cost involved I suppose.

Yes exactly, I have also had to press for ultrasound too! he is having it this tuesday. Will let you know what comes out of it.

haha nope you can never have enough boots. I'm getting him some soon too!

will make decision after ultrasound scan.....one thing Im going to ask vet is how many horses would show issues with their suspensory ligaments if scanned?? I wonder! I would imagine many and many go on as normal.

Winter will be a nightmare, especially if it does snow soon agghhh! we do have a bridle path from the yard and woods. so I guess that could be used for the walking bit.

 

[dangermouse]

My vet did say that if you scanned any horse you would probably see some damage, but the extent of the damage was what counted.

I only had my horse for 6 months when diagnosed, he was an ex racehorse only 7 passed 5 stage vetting. I think it was probably something he had when I bought him due to racing career, that perhaps only came to light with change of workload. The people I bought him from had his spine x rayed prior to my vetting to check for kissing spine as I nearly didn't go ahead as he dipped once when getting on, sent xray to my vets to check and all fine. Apparently suspensory damage can be confused with no end of things including sacroiliac ligament damage.

From bits I've read it does seem that age doesn't necessarily play a part in PSD, my vet said conformation can play a part and fitness levels.

Hope scan goes well

 

[SpanishNeddy]

yes exactly I suppose so, I mean if I was scanned I would be written off haha! doesnt mean I can't do things though lol.

Yes I have heard suspensory can be connected to other things.....fingers crossed my horse's isnt

Goodness knows how my horse has done it, he hasnt done anything, was unbacked until 6 months ago. Oh well one of those things I suppose.

Yes my vet said about the conformation too. She xrayed his feet but his foot balance was very good apparently (annoying as I suppose that could have given an answer).

I will await the scan Tuesday and let you all know how it goes! I need help, I don't know what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[thermidor08]

Good luck for tuesday! Sadly my horse went lame again last week and having spent most of yesterday at the vets it appears his suspensory has flared up again, less than 3 weeks after getting the go ahead to up his work (which we hadn't yet done!)

After speaking to the specialist we all agree that its in my boys best interest to be retired, age 8 :-(

It's sad but we always had his welfare as first priority and we're not prepared to risk a critical injury, at least we still get a big fat furry tb to pet!!

 

[SpanishNeddy]

Thank you, will post on Tuesday the outcome...fingers crossed for me everyone

I am so sorry about your boy, what a shame it did not work. Sounds like it is the right decision for him though if he has been through so much already. Maybe you could do some in hand showing or something throughout the summer if that makes him happy? my horse loves showing so he would enjoy that.

Will be in touch soon

 

[SpanishNeddy]

UPDATE 18 OCTOBER:

Right everyone, vet and physio saw my horse this morning and some positive news. Since his last physio session 2-weeks ago (under vet sedation) he looks much better apparently, so pleased with that. Vet did ultrasound scans and has confirmed it is PSD (in right hind mainly but bit in left hind). No tears or anything apparently it’s at top as is fine further down. She has confirmed it as chronic.

We spoke about options and she can totally understand why I am not keen on the operation (due to my horse being a total wimp! It took me about 1.5 weeks until he would be normal again after nerve blocking, as he was petrified every time I picked a hoof up!). Anyway, final 3 options are:

1. shock wave: only 40% successful so I’m going to forgot that option as it isn’t worth it
2. Cortisone injections: 50% successful
3. Equidronate (Tildren): 50% successful

Vet and physio said that the 3rd option might be good for him because it would help his whole body out (as he is sore from over compensating elsewhere). There is a risk of colic with it apparently, so he would have to go to the vets to be monitored (as it is via a drip).

What does everyone think???????

Thanks again

 

[SpanishNeddy]

Aggghhhhhhhh really do not know what to do!!! I am now thinking just go for the surgury and get it over and done with. I just dont want to mess around for a year only having to do the op anyway!!

Really confused

Think surgery is best.....just so worried about it
How are all your horses doing since your last messages????

HELP!!! I need some reassurance op is best thing to do

 

[loopylucifer]

If i had insurance and my horse was able to go to surgery i would porbably seriously consider it as it would have the best long term outcome for her.
Could you not try tildren then do surgery if no or little improvment in a few months?
best person you can have this convosation with is your vet.
The best thing you can do is what is in the best interest for you horse

 

[SpanishNeddy]

Thanks loopylucifer.

I have now decided to go ahead with surgery. Best long term outcome although so worried about the op of course

Told my vet yesterday and asked for him to be referred to Liphook for the operation. So just awaiting date now.

 

[thermidor08]

Hope it all goes well, couldn't be at a better place! Liphook are my vets, would be interested to know who is performing the op as was talking to my specialist about it yesterday! pm if you prefer

 

[SpanishNeddy]

It will be Tom Hughes. Do you know him? is he good?
It was actually my vet who requested it be him.....no idea why.


Eeeek

 

[dangermouse]

Good luck with the op, I am sure it will work out well. Mine still lame but not connected with op had xray yesterday and some damage to bone in front of fetlock joint, thought to be caused by his antics in field when turned out post op, so I can't blame the surgery, just bad luck and loopy TB. Had steroid injection today and now have 3 more weeks box rest, really frustrating.

If I had to make the choice again, I would still go for surgery as things were looking good before this setback. Only other drawback just had insurance renewal through and premiums going up by over £20 a month.

Hope all goes well

 

[thermidor08]

SpanishNeddy, Tom is actually my vet! He is brill, your horse will be in the best hands. Good luck with it all, hope you have the outcome you want

 

[SpanishNeddy]

So sorry to hear that Jacmac, I really do hope he comes right soon. It is so hard for them isnt it, I mean one day they can go in the field and be ridden then the next they are on box rest for weeks. Poor neddies.

My horse isnt going to take too kindly to box rest that is for sure. He loves going out with his buddies. He does love being in stable but i dont think he will for 24/7!!!! I wont even be allowed to take him out to tie him up as that is touch and go now anyway (as spanish horse they're not used to it) so I wouldnt trust him not to brake the string!!!! so will muck out around him I think just in case.

Aahhhhh Thermidor08, really! how spooky! he has his op date booked now. Eeeek.

Wish me luck everyone. I am so worried. I do hope he will be ok

 

[MrsMozart]

I bought a three and a half year old TBxID mare three years ago.

She was on/off lame for about ten months. Very hard to pinpoint. Hardly any mileage (just backed when I got her).

Went to Sue Dyson for a full lameness work up.

Chronic damage to both rear suspensory ligaments.

I investigated the operation option. I had decided against it, just before I was told it wouldn't work for her, she was too damaged. The nerves can grow back. I didn't like the thought of having to operate on her and cut nerves just so as I could work her (just my opinion - each to their own). I had come to accept that she would be a field ornament for x years to come, when it dawned on me that the winter and deep mud would cause her pain. Just as I was getting my head round that, she started to have problems staling - couldn't get her hind legs in order and when she did, she couldn't take the angle/strain. She was put to sleep a week or so later.

I hope your outcome is far better than ours was.

Hugs hunny.

 

[SpanishNeddy]

Hi everyone,

My boy went to Liphook on Wednesday and had the operation yesterday. So pleased to say it all went well and he is fine

Hopefully he is coming home tomorrow, can not wait to see him! I expect he will have his hind legs bandaged up!!!!!!

Was such a relief I can tell you, I was one stressed individual yesterday with worry!

Lets hope that in 6-weeks the opertation was a success. I don't think I will be able to tell sooner, as his lameness was so slight and only noticeable on a lunge circle. Fingers crossed anyway

 

[SpanishNeddy]

Another update!!!!

My boy had his staples removed this morning as all is good vet said. Yay!!!!

so pleased as keeping his bandages on has been a nightmare as he is always rolling and laying down!

So, another 3 weeks box rest followed by 4 weeks paddock rest to go! then I guess I find out whether it has actually worked or not!

How is everyone else??

 

[Laafet]

I've read this post with interest as I have spent the whole of today in Rossdales to find out my horse has PSD in both hind legs, only showing a slight intermittent lameness on the arena surface but not anywhere else. I was given three options - rest (20% recovery), shockwave (40% recovery), surgery (75%). So tomorrow he is in having the op, he won't be out until Monday, then 4 weeks box rest. Andy Bathe is doing it so I am hopeful that it goes ok. I just want him to be ok.

 

[SpanishNeddy]

Hi Laafet

So sorry to hear about your boy. I hope all goes well in his op today, I'm sure it will. How old is he out of interest? my boy is 6.

My boy has been on box rest for 2 weeks so far......and he isnt too happy about that either!! he is so bored bless him

My boy was only very slight lameness too, but he was so tense I think it hurt him more than it showed in the lameness.

Still don't know whether it was a success or not......fingers crossed!!

Let us know and keep us updated

 

[Laafet]

My boy is only 8. I hope that he does recover well enough to compete. Am completely gutted about it all TBH. I know he'll be a good patient as he doesn't mind standing in so hopefully when he gets out of hospital which should be Monday then it will all just flow along. However am yet to hear from the vets if he has come through the op yet, he was first on the list this morning.

 

[SpanishNeddy]

I know EXACTLY how you feel. I still do not understand why on earth my horse had it! he was backed 6 months and hardly done anything!!!!! so it does not make sense to me at all. The only thing we are putting it down as is because of his high action (as andalusian). So strange.

I really feel for you, I was in a right state when my boy was having his op. He was first as well (8.30am) and I ended up phoning in a panic at 11am as I hadnt heard anything. But he was still sleeping they said and didnt wake up til around lunch time.

I was very impressed with the incision......I can not even see the scar at all it is very well done. Which I am glad about as I do breed showing with him.

I still wont find out about whether it has worked for another 6 weeks. Fingers crossed though.

Let us know when you know, I'm sure he will be fine

 

[speedycivic]

Keeping my fingers crossed for good news from you both Spanish neddy and leefet. As you prob know my mare 6 also had psd in osh. Been on box rest since July and developed it whilst walking in hand inthe leg that had been badly damaged in July. I do think my vet is barking when he said it was a strain. I think he is sufficiently barking no to use him again! Anyway she was cleared sound and is doing well and happier being turned out. She had three shock wave sessions. To be fair I am not sure I dare risk riding her again, but I may get over that with time.

 

[dangermouse]

SpanishNeddy glad your horse recovering well, that's great news. Leafet I hope op went ok. My boy who had op in August, did all the in-hand walking etc. was given ok to be turned out in small paddock 1 1/2 hours a day, then damaged fetlock region, has been scanned this week and there is some damage to medial suspensory ligament where it passes over sesamoid bones. Completely gutted, more box rest to be reviewed at Christmas. Maybe that's what you get buying an ex racehorse. Oh well will try and be positive, he's a lovely chap and for TB coping very well with his confinement.

 

[lcharles]

Any news on how your horse is SpanishNeddy? x

Just read the whole thread as my horse is going in for the same operation on Thursday evening, picking her up Sunday x

Just wondered how your getting on now?

 

[SpanishNeddy]

Hi Icharles.

Yes he is good thank you. I started the walking in hand last Thursday and he has been an angel.....well a few near explosive moments but nothing you wouldnt expect from a horse that's been stuck in!!

I am supposed to be turning him out in a small paddock now. However, I have chosen not to! my horse is bonkers in a field when he usually goes out let alone if I turned him out now. Our fields are really muddy (as clay) and it is just not practical for my situation. So surgeon has said I was totally right to bring that to his attention as he would prefer me to keep him in and hand walk him twice a day (10 mins each) as he would be likely to injure himself going out at the moment.

Surgeon has also said that if he is likely to be silly when we get back in saddle then to wait another 4 weeks to ensure totally healed (so 12 weeks from surgery). Which is what I am going to do as he USED to bolt badly and is very tricky to ride also. So would rather be safe than sorry, another 4 weeks but never mind.

Is your mares PSD in hind or front? how lame is she? how did you notice? I hope all goes well for her op this week. It is a very simple op and I was so surprised how well my boy coped (as he is neurotic!!) he was fine and scars I can hardly see! well impressed.

Keep us updated and do ask any questions, i might be able to help

xx

 

[lcharles]

Hi,

Thanks for that x

Yes, its a straight forwards op as far as i'm aware, its to cut both nerves in her back legs x There was no definate 'she has hurt herself' signs, she slowly lost her 'oomph' but was not obviously lame! x I gave her a few weeks off thinking she needed a break but she was no better so had the vet out. Trotting up she was quite lame on her right hind leg, being off had made her worse and made it obvious x Felt bad for not noticing before and was shocked how lame she was after a few weeks off! x

My mare has been in for the last 8 weeks on box rest after having scans, xrays, shockwave etc but i've put her out in the field until her operation on thursday x She's going mad so had to let her have field time before going on box rest again! x

i'm just hoping all goes well and i can start walking her out and get riding her again x

Sounds like its been quite a quick process for you really then x 12 weeks after surgery isnt too bad, my vets said she'd be back in action for spring but i dont know what he meant by action?! walking about, ridden or competing!! x Happy that she'll be fixed and out and about again soon. dont want to rush it x

Did you have any problems at all? x

So glad she's insured! x