Pseudomonas and AI

[DollyPentreath]

I expect this will be a long old post...

I was aiming to breed from my mare this year. Last year she suffered a sacroiliac strain that underwent treatment for 12 months with no positive results. (It is with blessing from my vet that i decided to breed from her) My vet was hopeful carrying a foal may also encourage her to use the damaged sacroiliac area. I was hoping to try working her once more after the foal was born, presently she can not be used for any ridden work as she changes behind in canter. (Although this was the only indication of a problem, in trot she was and still is 100%)

She is also a maiden mare, aged 11. We had CEM and EVA tests done only to find she, unfortunately, has pseudomonas. We have also treated this (with flushing) with no results. The vet is of the opinion the bacteria is from the rectum and when she defecates, especially if the faeces have a high moisture content, she re-infects herself due to her anatomy (without going into too much detail..

) being as it is. I really hope that makes sense..

Anyway, she was originally planned to go to stud for AI, however, having spoken to the stud they are worried that they might push any infection further inside causing a uterine infection. In contrast my vet would be happy to conduct the AI as he feels the risk of causing uterine infection is small, however, of course there is still a possiblility of infection occurring. My other choice is to treat the gut infection with antibiotics, a risky and expensive process that can cause diahorrhea, weight loss and even death. I'm understandably not happy to go down this route.

So, I'm looking for advice.. I see I have three options with many possible outcomes.

1) I decide not to breed from her and hope she comes back sound after a year. If she doesn't I have a very large, very expensive companion..

2) I take up my vets offer and we breed a healthy foal with no complications, my vet says there is no risk to the foal, which I find hard to swallow.. But he's the professional, I'm not. She comes back into work with a supposed increased chance of being sound.
3) I decide to take up the vets offer and breed from her, she gets a uterine infection and (the vet was hazy on this last scenario.. he only said an infection would need treating) then requires treatment.

In hindsight I should've asked a little more about possible risks to the foal should she get a uterine infection.. I'll ask for more info.

It's been heartbreaking to not only have a lame horse for over a year, but to see my parents and my own money disappearing down the drain. We paid alot of money for her and I would love to breed from her, but if she can only ever be a companion then so be it.

It's all a bit doom and gloom! She was a talented horse and if I decide not to breed and she still comes back lame, I'm not sure what my options are?

Any thoughts/advice from the wise?

 

[Bounty]

I don't qualify as being one fo the 'wise' but can you not have her caslicked to minimise the chances of her re-infecting herself?

 

[sallyf]

I have a friend who had a mare with the same problem.
They somehow managed to cover the clitoris in clingfilm before AIing her to try and limit the spead of the infection and she got in foal first time.
They are lucky and have there own stallions to AI with .Obviously she is a mare that no one would want to cover naturally.
Caslicking would be a good option as well afterwards.
One thing i will add though is it is one good reason why mares should all be swabbed and it infuriates me when studs take mares without them.

 

[DollyPentreath]

Thank you for the replies, I will talk to my vet about having her caslicked, I must admit that's not an option I'd considered. I think it's more actually getting rid of the pseudomonas (within her vaginal tract) that's going to be the problem, but I will suggest it and thank you.

Sallyf, how interesting! I'll suggest that idea too, but I'm not sure what the vet will say!!

I'm not sure how they would treat the infection and have her caslicked before re-infection occurred? Or do you mean having her caslicked once she is in foal? (Sorry if that sounds daft to all you experienced breeders out there!)

 

[sallyf]

Im presuming that the pseudomonas showed up on the clitoral swab that was taken which is external in which case hopefully it wont have entered her vaginal tract yet.
Has she had a cervical one done (internal).
As far as caslicking goes we usually do it as soon as possible after we have finnished treating the mare ,quite often the difficult ones will be ovuplanted when they have a suitable sized follicle and then AI'd 12 hrs later (if fresh semen used)then worked on for infection with a last wash out just before caslick.

 

[DollyPentreath]

Sorry, my mistake, I'd assumed it had reached her vaginal tract. Indeed, she's only had a clitoral swab.

[ QUOTE ]
As far as caslicking goes we usually do it as soon as possible after we have finnished treating the mare ,quite often the difficult ones will be ovuplanted when they have a suitable sized follicle and then AI'd 12 hrs later (if fresh semen used)then worked on for infection with a last wash out just before caslick.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to try and get a second opinion from the stud tomorrow, then give my vet a call. The info above is hugely appreciated, at least I'm learning and can hopefully have some input, rather than just sounding like a daft first time breeder.. I'll discuss my options in a little more depth with the vet tomorrow.

 

[maestro]

We have had a mare who was positive from a clitoral swab which was treated then came up with three negative swabs before attemting to inseminate. She was also caslicked and took first time, so it can be done. The cling film sounds a brill idea will remember that one Sally!

 

[coedcae]

Snap, your situation is almost identical to mine, except my mare has already got the uterine infection with pseudomonas. She is also a maiden mare, aged 11.
I tried to get her in foal using my own vet and AI, but she didnt take. Sent her up to stud whilst waiting for the results to come back from her uterine swab, which turned out to be pseudonomas. As soon as the stud vet heard that news, she basically told me it was a complete waste of time trying to breed from my mare

That the pseudonomas was the worst type of infection to have and was virtually impossible to get rid of as it doesnt respond to pennicilin. My own vet was slightly more positive and said some mares have been treated but would involve her being on an intravenous drip of antibiotics. I couldnt go down this route as she's not a horse that takes well to being stabled, let alone attached to a drip.
I had retired her from eventing as she developed a "ditch" aversion but she could do BSJA or RC stuff. However, she has melanomas in her throat, the size of 2 fists, so wouldnt pass a vetting. My own vet thinks she possibly has 2 more years. I'm at a loss as to what to do with her for the best. On the one hand she could provide someone with some fun over the next 2 years, as she is perfectly fit and able in every other respect. But on the other hand her long term future looks bleak. It's a horrible situation to be in and I can empathise completely. Ironically , I initially bought a mare as I thought if anything happens to her I'll always be able to breed from her.

 

[DollyPentreath]

Coadcae,

I sympathise completely, it is so frustrating to see a talented horse just wasting away and no matter how much time and money you try to invest to help the situation, nothing seems to work.

On the bright side, I've consulted my vet about the risks of infection and we're going to try, as SallyF suggested, AI with cling film! That is dependent on the uterine swab returning clear, I can't say I'm holding out huge hope.

If she gets a uterine infection it's not life threatening, she just can't foal.. So if worst comes to the worst I'm going to continue with her year off and start her on some zerobute or bute free supplements to encourage her to engage the sacroiliac area and hopefully she'll come sound. Enough to be a happy hack at least. However, I really can't afford to have a 15.2 pet in the back garden..

I really hope your mare finds a loan/permanent home for the next 2 years to enjoy the rest of her time, I empathise for you completely. Can you just keep her as a companion for a couple of years? Seems like pseudomonas spells a sorry situation all round..

 

[coedcae]

The AI with cling film certainly sounds like a good idea, I wish you luck with it and fingers crossed she takes. If not, as you say, you maybe able to get her back into work.
Unfortunately, mine is 17.2hh and is rather expensive to keep as a pasture ornament. She loves to live out 24/7 but needs rugging and large amounts of hay to keep the weight on her. So not ideal as a companion.
I have made enquiries at the local equine college but not sure this is the answer either. I'm waiting for someone to post that they would love a competition horse for a couple of years but cant afford to buy one

 

[DollyPentreath]

Bossanova's eventer is at Hartpury, perhaps send her a PM, I'm pretty sure she's very happy with him there. I really hope you find someone.. Sending positive vibes your way!!