motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
Sadly it won’t let me , no option to send video
PSSM advice
- Thread starter motherof2beasts!
- Start date
Sadly it won’t let me , no option to send video
Nudibranch
Well-Known Member
I have a MIM/PSSM horse. It's a minefield and there are so many things which can be linked. Or absolutely nothing to do with it. However in your case I'd apply Occam's Razor and get a lameness workup before anything else, or at least a bute trial. It's quite possible low grade arthritis is more painful in colder weather, causing the behaviour.
motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
Thank you my osteo is also an independent vet, she assesses him frequently and has said there is no lameness. He is very conformationally strange , never grew into his bum , people assume he’s a youngster awaiting a growth spurt 
almost half horse half pony ….
almost half horse half pony ….motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
Chopped my head off but pic of the beasts conformation and 16h bottom , 14h rest!
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
What a character! How on earth do you fit a saddle?
.
.
motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
We gave up after trying many including getting a made to measure, I have to ride in TCS which he is very comfy in, I however miss my knee rolls.
poiuytrewq
Well-Known Member
Thank you for this thread motherof2beasts. I think the other thread you mention may have been mine. I too had never considered the possibility of PSSM. I wanted/mean to post again and question more as I'm reading more about it so this is a really helpful read.
I'm shortly off for a lesson, during which i hope to god he behaves!! but when I'm back will go through all these replies, a few bits I've skimmed over already made me go wow!
I'm shortly off for a lesson, during which i hope to god he behaves!! but when I'm back will go through all these replies, a few bits I've skimmed over already made me go wow!
motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
Yes it was yours , I’m very curious now awaiting test, he may just be a bit of a knob in autumn but who knows.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Is there really a difference of 8” between the height of his bum and that of his withers, or was that a bit of poetic licence?
If it really is 8”, I wouldn’t ride such a horse, that’s just too croup high to support a rider.
If it really is 8”, I wouldn’t ride such a horse, that’s just too croup high to support a rider.
poiuytrewq
Well-Known Member
Yes there may be that! Im actually hoping now because mine is bordering on unsafe some days and it’s not fun anymore. if I had a reason and things to try I feel like I can deal with it better.
Do you mind if I question some of your replies? Wasn’t sure if I should start another, I don’t want to hijack your post!
motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
Of course go for it ! X
motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
No there isn’t, I’ve never actually measured the difference but he is bum high. That pic is slightly on an angle , I’ll try to find a better one, for some reason won’t let me upload some of them or videos.
motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
poiuytrewq
Well-Known Member
Thank you!
So a few things I wanted to question. Paddy555, you mention clipping to be able to rug better. I had wondered that. Since upping mines rugs he has a few times been a bit sweaty, even when he's only been in a bit more then usual, Would i be better clipping and being able to control his temperature myself? I have given him bit of a clip weeks ago before this behaviour started again and have all but let it grow out thinking it will make him fresher! You say clip? Assume best keeping the back on?
Rowreach mentions head shaking, was that seasonal or affected at all by pollen? I have put mine down to allergies because the first year he was horrific some days/ places but this past summer i had success with Nostril vet. He does however head flick, seemingly when hes tired or stressy all year round. Do we know what the relationship is between head shaking and PSSM?
Why would we stop feeding chaff? What is the recommended "Perfect diet"
Does anyone know roughly how long the testing takes to come back with results?
So a few things I wanted to question. Paddy555, you mention clipping to be able to rug better. I had wondered that. Since upping mines rugs he has a few times been a bit sweaty, even when he's only been in a bit more then usual, Would i be better clipping and being able to control his temperature myself? I have given him bit of a clip weeks ago before this behaviour started again and have all but let it grow out thinking it will make him fresher! You say clip? Assume best keeping the back on?
Rowreach mentions head shaking, was that seasonal or affected at all by pollen? I have put mine down to allergies because the first year he was horrific some days/ places but this past summer i had success with Nostril vet. He does however head flick, seemingly when hes tired or stressy all year round. Do we know what the relationship is between head shaking and PSSM?
Why would we stop feeding chaff? What is the recommended "Perfect diet"
Does anyone know roughly how long the testing takes to come back with results?
poiuytrewq
Well-Known Member
Looks totally different in those photos!!
motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
He still has a rather large bottom! When I first got him it wasn’t so pronounced but he was so big all over he looked like a Christmas bauble
motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
Good luck with P1 results OP.
Just posted my own post, similar to this in the veterinary thread. Mine is neg P1 but suspect there must be some myopthy there. She hates the rain, hates being wet and cold and seems to be happier rugged up.
Just posted my own post, similar to this in the veterinary thread. Mine is neg P1 but suspect there must be some myopthy there. She hates the rain, hates being wet and cold and seems to be happier rugged up.
Interested to see comments on this. I think it depends on P1 or P2.. vitamin E is definitely good for either and I believe micronised linseed is to.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Do you mean negative for PSSM 1? There's no reliable test for PSSM 2 and I know your vet is suggesting a biopsy, from your thread.
.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
You're on it @ycbm! Typo by myself - haha. Changed to neg P1 
Fransurrey
Well-Known Member
My own P1 positive horse is very symptomatic at the moment. We're hacking in walk, with a few trots when he's warmed up, but I was only commenting yesterday that I doubt he'll be working to age 15+ (he's 9). For those contemplating clipping, I do an Irish, with full neck off. I've been trying to hold off rugs as it's been mild and he needs another clip, but he was so stiff this morning, I've put on his no fill. It's such a frustrating condition as he spent most of the spring symptom free - I really thought we'd cracked it, then the changeable weather started and boom, back down to earth we came.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
With mine the headshaking came on gradually and started at the end of the July of her 5th year. I'd been riding her for about 9 months before I bought her, so I knew her well and she'd shown no signs of headshaking before that, and had always been a really sensible young horse, never spooky or fresh, and perfect in traffic. In the July, the YO (previous owner) decided to start feeding her and another 5 year old, from memory it was pink mash and chaff. The headshaking got worse as did the spookiness and suddenly being terrified of anything bigger than an small van on the roads. It was Halloween when she got really unrideable and I stripped back her feed to make sure I completely cut out all sugar (inflammatory) and alfalfa. I'm not kidding when I say the transformation was almost instant. When I started to drill down into the ingredients of most chaffs, I was horrified at what is hidden in many of them - for a full ingredients list, don't rely on the bag, go onto the websites and see what they are sticking into them.
At this time I was still keeping her with her previous owner, who is a show cob person and likes her horses, um, well covered. My mare under the new regime lost a lot of weight and looked fit and fabulous. Then towards the end of that year and into January, I noticed she was putting on weight and her headshaking and spookiness was returning. Questioned the YO and her OH who both denied feeding her anything other than the basics, a tiny amount of SB + VitE + salt + hay, so I kept an eye and one day found they'd put a whacking great net of haylage in her stable and a massive feed including chaff in her manger
I moved her within a few days and she was back to normal a couple of days after that. Oddly she can tolerate things like carrots and apples, but sugary compound feeds obviously make her tight and sore.
It really is a case of trial and error, but she's now 8 and just the most delightful horse and easily managed.
ETA she's fully clipped all year round. I rug in layers so I can really keep up with the temperature changes.
poiuytrewq
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I know my chaff is a bit shit. Last winter he also stopped eating and I tried all sorts. The one long term thing he will eat and so means I can get a balancer and joint supplement into him is a shops own Hifi lite which has grass nuts but also alfalfa and molasses.With mine the headshaking came on gradually and started at the end of the July of her 5th year. I'd been riding her for about 9 months before I bought her, so I knew her well and she'd shown no signs of headshaking before that, and had always been a really sensible young horse, never spooky or fresh, and perfect in traffic. In the July, the YO (previous owner) decided to start feeding her and another 5 year old, from memory it was pink mash and chaff. The headshaking got worse as did the spookiness and suddenly being terrified of anything bigger than an small van on the roads. It was Halloween when she got really unrideable and I stripped back her feed to make sure I completely cut out all sugar (inflammatory) and alfalfa. I'm not kidding when I say the transformation was almost instant. When I started to drill down into the ingredients of most chaffs, I was horrified at what is hidden in many of them - for a full ingredients list, don't rely on the bag, go onto the websites and see what they are sticking into them.
At this time I was still keeping her with her previous owner, who is a show cob person and likes her horses, um, well covered. My mare under the new regime lost a lot of weight and looked fit and fabulous. Then towards the end of that year and into January, I noticed she was putting on weight and her headshaking and spookiness was returning. Questioned the YO and her OH who both denied feeding her anything other than the basics, a tiny amount of SB + VitE + salt + hay, so I kept an eye and one day found they'd put a whacking great net of haylage in her stable and a massive feed including chaff in her manger
I moved her within a few days and she was back to normal a couple of days after that. Oddly she can tolerate things like carrots and apples, but sugary compound feeds obviously make her tight and sore.
It really is a case of trial and error, but she's now 8 and just the most delightful horse and easily managed.
ETA she's fully clipped all year round. I rug in layers so I can really keep up with the temperature changes.
I’m not sure I’ve tried sugar beet though so will get a bag have a go!
Salt I struggle with, I get about a teaspoon x2 a day into him. The plan is always to build it up slowly but as soon as it’s upped he leaves it.
I probably need to do a complete over haul.
SEL
Well-Known Member
I've got a (bad) bib clip on my P1. She gets very sweaty on her chest and under her armpits so they're clipped and it means I can up her rugs more comfortably
In terms of diet I have found simple is best and I suspect that's because it avoids feed companies slipping in something she can't tolerate in volumes she can't tolerate.
In work she was on kwikbeet but now she gets the same as the ponies - a small amount of simple systems soaked hay cobs with a small amount of topspec grass chaff. She was on topchop zero but the price got silly. Vitamin E, salt, some oily herbs and mag ox when the grass is flushing. She's still restricted on grass though. I no longer soak hay since I retired her. Linseed, alfalfa are definitely problems so I avoid mixes.
Looking back I massively under rugged her when she was younger. I thought 200g in cold weather was fine. That's now her 8-10 degree overnight rug.
In terms of diet I have found simple is best and I suspect that's because it avoids feed companies slipping in something she can't tolerate in volumes she can't tolerate.
In work she was on kwikbeet but now she gets the same as the ponies - a small amount of simple systems soaked hay cobs with a small amount of topspec grass chaff. She was on topchop zero but the price got silly. Vitamin E, salt, some oily herbs and mag ox when the grass is flushing. She's still restricted on grass though. I no longer soak hay since I retired her. Linseed, alfalfa are definitely problems so I avoid mixes.
Looking back I massively under rugged her when she was younger. I thought 200g in cold weather was fine. That's now her 8-10 degree overnight rug.
Last edited:
Pippity
Well-Known Member
Mine is P1/n. She was diagnosed as an 8yo after tying up. My vet was fantastic - as soon as we had the diagnosis, she called all her contacts who may know something, and we put together a treatment plan. She's tied up once since then, which helped us realise that she ties up more from stress than from weather/work/etc. It's restricted what I'm able to do with her, because I make an effort not to push her too far out of her comfort zone, but it's worth it for her to be comfortable.
I'd had her for three years before she was diagnosed and, looking back, I can see that there were possible PSSM symptoms but there was nothing that really leaps out as an issue. The major one was that her tail was pretty much a broomstick, with no bend in it. My physio at the time consistently commented on how soft her muscles were but, when I switched physio, the new one identified that the top muscles were soft but the ones below were rock-hard. Behaviour-wise, she had spells of being jumpy and as explosive as her basically laidback nature allowed, but it was never so bad I considered it any more than a schooling/rider confidence issue.
Diet-wise, she's always been on soaked hay. She didn't used to get any hard feed but now (after consulting a nutritionist) gets:
Dengie Meadow Grass
Spillers Lite & Lean balancer
Linseed oil
8000iu vitamin E
It's not the perfect PSSM diet, because she's an incredibly picky eater. (She clearly didn't read that section of the Cob Manual.) She won't touch her feed if it's even slightly damp, so the powder tends to fall through. However, at least the balancer has some vit E in it, and she's getting enough that her bum no longer falls away from her spine.
She can't tolerate alfalfa. I don't know if that's PSSM or just her, but when I had her on it (because she actually ate the bloody stuff), she threw me into a fence.
I'm another who clips so I can rug. It does seem nonsensical, because she certainly isn't in enough work to justify as much as I clip her, but it makes it a lot easier to regulate her temperature, especially during the changeable weather. She's currently in 150g.
I'd had her for three years before she was diagnosed and, looking back, I can see that there were possible PSSM symptoms but there was nothing that really leaps out as an issue. The major one was that her tail was pretty much a broomstick, with no bend in it. My physio at the time consistently commented on how soft her muscles were but, when I switched physio, the new one identified that the top muscles were soft but the ones below were rock-hard. Behaviour-wise, she had spells of being jumpy and as explosive as her basically laidback nature allowed, but it was never so bad I considered it any more than a schooling/rider confidence issue.
Diet-wise, she's always been on soaked hay. She didn't used to get any hard feed but now (after consulting a nutritionist) gets:
Dengie Meadow Grass
Spillers Lite & Lean balancer
Linseed oil
8000iu vitamin E
It's not the perfect PSSM diet, because she's an incredibly picky eater. (She clearly didn't read that section of the Cob Manual.) She won't touch her feed if it's even slightly damp, so the powder tends to fall through. However, at least the balancer has some vit E in it, and she's getting enough that her bum no longer falls away from her spine.
She can't tolerate alfalfa. I don't know if that's PSSM or just her, but when I had her on it (because she actually ate the bloody stuff), she threw me into a fence.
I'm another who clips so I can rug. It does seem nonsensical, because she certainly isn't in enough work to justify as much as I clip her, but it makes it a lot easier to regulate her temperature, especially during the changeable weather. She's currently in 150g.
expanding_horizon
Well-Known Member
What is the recommended PPSM diet, supplementation and rugging regime? Or can anyone link to a thread where it is spelt out? Or a site? Search wasnt very helpful. thanks
paddy555
Well-Known Member
I do what appears to be called a chaser or Irish clip. More or less a straight line from the ears to the stifle.
That way the front and underneath is clear to ride and the back end is kept warm by his fur. Riding would be impossible without that sort of clip as I could never get the underneath/girth clean enough. How much you clip probably depends on your breed. Little coat on a TB very little and a highland lots. Most important is to have the chance to get heavy rugs over the bum.
I have found Rambo varilayers to be good. A lot over the top and less bulk underneath.
there is no perfect diet. Mine gets salt, equimins advance complete and herbs (ie thyme, oregano and rosemary) He also gets FB pea protein. Plus high dose E.
S/b, hi fibre nuts, grass nuts appear to be OK for him
problem is what works well for one doesn't for another. Very much trial and error. Mine is ridden just about every day unless it is too horrendous.
That way the front and underneath is clear to ride and the back end is kept warm by his fur. Riding would be impossible without that sort of clip as I could never get the underneath/girth clean enough. How much you clip probably depends on your breed. Little coat on a TB very little and a highland lots. Most important is to have the chance to get heavy rugs over the bum.
I have found Rambo varilayers to be good. A lot over the top and less bulk underneath.
there is no perfect diet. Mine gets salt, equimins advance complete and herbs (ie thyme, oregano and rosemary) He also gets FB pea protein. Plus high dose E.
S/b, hi fibre nuts, grass nuts appear to be OK for him
problem is what works well for one doesn't for another. Very much trial and error. Mine is ridden just about every day unless it is too horrendous.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
What do you do with your gelding work wise? Just hacking or more?
paddy555
Well-Known Member
hacking he's 20
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I think one of the problems is that what works for one doesn't work for another. Mine, for example responded really well to alcar, but others do better with other amino acids or with proteins. I haven't had one for a few years and I'm out of date now, but I think it's still true that they can be very individual in their responses.
.