PSSM possibility?

Bertolie

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Can anyone tell me the symptoms for PSSM please? I have a 7 year old traditional cob x Clydesdale who started head shaking back last summer. First thought was feet.....xrays done and shod accordingly (was barefoot). Continued head shaking and referred to Veronica Roberts at Langford who immediately pick up that she was reluctant to go forward and uncomfortable. Lameness expert had a look, lameness locators picked up mild left fore impact lameness, mild left hind impact lameness, and mild/moderate left hind pushoff lameness. We are starting a Bute trial in a couple of days time but having seen a few threads about PSSM it got me thinking if this could be a possibility? However I am totally in the dark about what PSSM is, whether it's possible my mare could have it, and what the treatment is? I don't want to waste money on various investigations, bone scans, MRI etc. if there is a possibility of something else going on.
 

Nudibranch

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Do a search on here. There are many threads. Basically there's a hair test for type 1 which is very easy to do and costs abut 30 quid from Animal Genetics. In the UK at the moment type 2 variants need a muscle biopsy but they are invasive and I believe can give false negatives. Symptoms are a long list of possibilities - a quick Google will give you them - but things like shifting hind lameness, heavy on the forehand, girthiness, muscle wastage...HOWEVER you do need to rule out other similarly presenting issues like hock arthritis, psd, and back issues. I am currently trialling the pssm diet as mine is negative for type 1, does have hock djd aged 6 but I also feel there is more to it as he has started to go really flat after about 20 minutes of walk and trot. Vitamin E, alcar plus salt, mag ox and linseed (he had the last 3 anyway). The diet is easy and relatively cheap to try and will do no harm even if it makes no improvement. Search on here, Google and the FB group for info.
 

ycbm

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I have had two type two.

Horse one alerted me with 'false colic' - looking like he had tummy ache but with full gut noises. He was also very reluctant to work. He was a QH, so treating him for it was logical and made big changes in his muscle tone. He loses muscle when he has insufficient vitamin E.

Horse two went solid in the bum muscles. I could thump with my fist and there was no movement out from that to the rest of the muscle. He began to shoot away from transitions. He gets firmer muscles now every time he needs a vitamin E boost, which happens from mid winter until spring kicks in.

Both were normal on vitamin E and alcar.
 

SEL

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I have two with type 1 - both draft bloodlines. Tbh it's so cheap to test with Animal Genetics that I think it should be compulsory with any draft showing lameness or reluctance to move forward BEFORE expensive lameness work ups.

Even after a positive genetic test I still had trouble getting vets to buy-in to the muscles being the source of lameness and hock arthritis. I had a 2nd opinion and they did an exercise tolerance test (horse looked 99% sound during the 30 min lunge) & her CK levels were very elevated. Rather shocked the vets given how good she looked but I've never had to argue about PSSM affecting her since. It's another cheap test for them to do before you head down the more expensive routes.

Good luck!
 

OldFogie

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There are basically two types of Vet - the very traditional and the guys that go to sleep with a copy of "10,000 Animal Diseases You Never Knew Existed" on their pillows. Never the twain shall meet. The first lot poo-poo any new idea - particularly when it has the word "poly" in it or "myopathy" for that matter, as it's a non-specific catch all.
Even the term "arthritis" is often a misunderstood term - it's basically an inflamation - so it's a description of a symptom - not a disease in itself. I have sero-negative osteoarthritis - the "sero" bit refers to a well known assay, the "negative" means the test doesn't show anything but the "osteoarthritis" means that everyone agrees that something is affecting me joints. It's a high educated way of saying - WE HAVE NO IDEA!
However; on average, I'd be far happier being treated by a Vet - as they have to deal with patients who can't speak so are keen to employ any tests that exist.
 

SEL

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OP - in terms of symptoms (& I'll stick to my mare as the gelding is retired)


  • Really struggles to pick back feet up for trimming. Came to me needing sedation, but even 2 years post diagnosis and with an exceptionally patient trimmer we still can't bring her hind legs forward for rasping etc. All has to be done in 'hoof picking out' position.
  • Gets very tight hamstrings. I suspect its all related to the tightness in her hindquarters, which also led to the severe arthritic changes in her hocks - diagnosed at 6 when she'd barely done anything.
  • Cold backed. The first time you get on her in a session she will need to walk off straight away and there will be a lot of head shaking. Cannot get on her from the ground first thing either. Once warmed up you can mount from ground and she'll stand stock still.
  • Canter was shocking and if she's out of work for any time then it can take weeks to get it back. She finds it very hard and will often buck in protest. I have learnt that she needs to be ridden through it and it does get better.
  • PSSM mainly affects the fast twitch muscles so you can have horse that looks and feels perfectly sound in walk but then turns into a cripple in trot. I have learnt to pop on a long rein and do a few circuits of 'lame' trot whilst she warms up. She looks to onlookers to be one of those cobby types that just doesn't go forward, so its a bit of a surprise to people when she's feeling well because then she looks amazing and you barely need any leg. When she's 'off' she's a shocking ride sadly.
  • Hard muscles. I am lucky to have an amazing bodyworker who took her life into her hands the first time she worked with her (she'd just lash out when she was sore). When she's bad I'm told her muscles feel tighter than a GP dressage horse.



I think my mare is on the middle to poor PSSM spectrum. She doesn't have the ongoing severe tie-ups that eventually lead to them being PTS, but equally diet and exercise have only had marginal improvement - born out by testing her CK levels regularly. Luckily for her I promised her a home for life!
 
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Casey76

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I have two PSSM 1 horses, one currently managed quite well, and one currently almost asymptomatic.

For my mare here are the symptoms which I noted (most of them I only became aware of them being symptoms after I had done a lot of research and recognized them)

  • Rubbing / leaning on the stable walls
  • Excessive rolling once tack removed (sometimes, 9 or 10 times each side, spending a lot of time right on her back with all 4 feet in the air)
  • Standing camped out as if to urinate/ or remaining camped out after urinating
  • Heavy on the forehand
  • Difficulty building, or maintaining topline
  • Unable to pick up correct canter lead, bunny hopping, cross firing, disunited - basically canter was a catastrophe, three instructors and a million exercises didn’t help. Now, after a year of physiotherapy we have an ok canter, but it is the first thing to go when there is a problem.
  • Hard muscles in the haunches; sometimes the surface muscles can feel OK, but the deep ones are locked up so tight it’s a wonder these horses can walk at all.
  • Despite looking completely sound at walk, feeling lame (in all 4 legs at times) in trot.
  • Sweating excessively during fairly simple work
  • Unable to gain or maintain fitness - after a period of time (for Blitz it is 45-50 mins) he just hits a wall and can’t continue, and no matter how much work he does, he can’t seem to pass this barrier.

Yes, it is all very non-specific, and can be frustrating trying to explain to the vet why you think there is something the matter, when your horse has a list of fairly trivial issues.
 

PapaverFollis

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I'm currently trying to decide whether to do a hair test for my mare (I know it's only thirty quid but that's a months supply of vit E and we're in serious penny pinching mode at the moment!). All of her "symptoms" are mild and could easily be ascribed to other things... apart from two obvious, but still quite mild (she could still walk but was clearly uncomfortable), tie-ups a year apart. Even those I could come up with reasons why they were both one-offs... And this is what the vet I spoke to said was most likely. But I don't quite trust that vet.

She seems to have responded really well to vit E and daily exercise... does that mean she has PSSM or was she just getting deficient in vit E, or does daily work just suit her and help with the behavioural side of things? Hair test is the only way to find out but does it matter, especially as I definitely can't justify paying for type 2 testing if it comes back negative for type 1.

These are the symptoms I have noted, so blimmin vague, most have improved or gone with the vit E and daily exercise.

1. Tie ups. Both the two main ones and some others possibly but not bad enough to affect walk obviously, there have been a handful of occasions where she hasn't wanted to trot but when pushed has done it and not been stiff or lame but had a definite grinding to a halt feel when asked to stop.
2. Very sweaty in light work.
3. Very slight toe dragging on longer hack behind a slower horse... thought maybe she was just having to shuffle to go more slowly. Was fine on longer hack when allowed in front.
4. Spooking. In a very calm type of horse, was a bit odd. And at random things like gates not at scary stuff like rustling plastic and flapping flags.
5. Bucking and bolting forward on the long lines (both tie ups happened when she carried on like this, so much so that the first one I thought she'd pulled something and expected to be getting the vet out in the morning but she was fine the next morning... didn't recognise that as a tie up until it happened again).
6. Got withdrawn and grumpy leading into the tie ups. Even bit me once which was so out of character I think even she was shocked at herself. She's a very friendly horse normally.
7. Several schooling issues that could very easily be schooling issues as she's green. Falling in and rushing in canter. Some head tossing. A really bad period of falling in generally. But on the whole has got lovely movement and is off the leg with good rhythm and can definitely collect and is not struggling to come off the forehand. We're not working on the canter currently, it'll be interesting to see how it goes now she's on the vit E.
8. Her muscles have loosened on the vit E but they weren't rock hard before. But I can feel a difference. They've gone velvety and just feel more pliable.
9. Back feet. Always been a bit kicky. Got loads better with consistent handling though and not much change from vit E so perhaps just behavioural. Is anxious with farrier but is also anxious with vet so that could just be her being a bit suspicious of strange men. She's got better each time.
10. I have seen her rub on the stable walls, like a dog does on soft furnishings when they are wet! But just thought it was a bit of general of itchiness at the time.
11. Much better when kept warm despite being a good doer, both tie ups and the worst grumpiness happened post clipping and when under-rugged (I as hoping she'd burn some fat keeping warm, ok? Feel ever so guilty now)
12. Oh yeah. Rubbish at poles. Knocked raised pokes when walking over them. Not tried for a while so will be interesting to see how she is now. Could be PSSM, could be just being a weak baby horse?

I'm sure there's a few more oddities that I'm just not remembering right now. She's a draft cross or Irish Draft of unknown breeding anyway. She is just the type. But she's always been forward going and never appeared lame or anything like that so in some ways not typical.

So yeah. Sorry that was a head dump! It's just such an odd one as I think you could probably take any horse and fit at least a short list of PSSM symptoms to that horse.. I guess testing is the only way to know for sure.

Not sure if this post will be particularly helpful OP but I would definitely advise giving vit E supplementation a go if you suspect PSSM at all. I thing exercise can be key but if there is a question make over soundness issues then I would tread carefully and would probably want to be more certain it was PSSM before exercising as such. If that makes sense. I had no issue putting mine in daily work as she wasn't lame.
 

SEL

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyQCvE9aXt4

This is Dr Valberg's presentation on PSSM. Its over an hour long, but it is absolutely worth watching. She doesn't say that every horse with shifting lameness etc has PSSM - her own horse had arthritic hock changes - but she does discuss myopathies in depth. Vitamin E deficiency can present like PSSM, so supplementing that is a good first step.
 

paddy555

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I'm currently trying to decide whether to do a hair test for my mare (I know it's only thirty quid but that's a months supply of vit E and we're in serious penny pinching mode at the moment!). All of her "symptoms" are mild and could easily be ascribed to other things... apart from two obvious, but still quite mild (she could still walk but was clearly uncomfortable), tie-ups a year apart. Even those I could come up with reasons why they were both one-offs... And this is what the vet I spoke to said was most likely. But I don't quite trust that vet.

She seems to have responded really well to vit E and daily exercise... does that mean she has PSSM or was she just getting deficient in vit E, or does daily work just suit her and help with the behavioural side of things? Hair test is the only way to find out but does it matter, especially as I definitely can't justify paying for type 2 testing if it comes back negative for type 1.

.

you can test for PSSM1 or 2 (or others) however yes may mean yes but I don't think no necessarily means no. At the end of the day you have a problem, maybe a muscle problem and whatever the test results it will be up to you to solve it. There is no medication cure, and I don't really think vets can do much. If you resolve it you may not even have an answer. Simply that you are managing your horse in the best way for that horse. That in all probability may suggest yes it's PSSM but, like me, you may have to live with the strong possibility it is nothing definite.

Dr Valberg also describes VEDM ie vit e deficiency myopathy. Who knows what you are dealing with. The important thing is you are getting good results with vit E. Mine responded really well and really quickly to vit E. Prior to that he had tied up and gone down so he had serious problems. I can see it is better to throw money at something that could help the horse rather than a test so I would carry on with vit e, exercise and make sure the horse is constantly warm and has an exercise sheet. These 3 things may resolve your problem and you will have to live with the uncertainty. If you are still missing something try alcar which is pretty cheap.

That is basically what I did and what worked for mine.

OP has your horse been tested for CK and AST levels?
 

paddy555

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Can anyone tell me the symptoms for PSSM please? I have a 7 year old traditional cob x Clydesdale who started head shaking back last summer. First thought was feet.....xrays done and shod accordingly (was barefoot). Continued head shaking and referred to Veronica Roberts at Langford who immediately pick up that she was reluctant to go forward and uncomfortable. Lameness expert had a look, lameness locators picked up mild left fore impact lameness, mild left hind impact lameness, and mild/moderate left hind pushoff lameness. We are starting a Bute trial in a couple of days time but having seen a few threads about PSSM it got me thinking if this could be a possibility? However I am totally in the dark about what PSSM is, whether it's possible my mare could have it, and what the treatment is? I don't want to waste money on various investigations, bone scans, MRI etc. if there is a possibility of something else going on.

to me you could be describing a hoof problem. What are the vet's conclusions? All those symptoms happened to one of mine. Turns out he had PPID at around 5 or 6. Not saying yours has but your symptoms can relate to many things and I would be asking the vet precisely what the x rays etc were showing and the condition of the feet. I would not immediately be looking at PSSM from what you describe.
 

PapaverFollis

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you can test for PSSM1 or 2 (or others) however yes may mean yes but I don't think no necessarily means no. At the end of the day you have a problem, maybe a muscle problem and whatever the test results it will be up to you to solve it. There is no medication cure, and I don't really think vets can do much. If you resolve it you may not even have an answer. Simply that you are managing your horse in the best way for that horse. That in all probability may suggest yes it's PSSM but, like me, you may have to live with the strong possibility it is nothing definite.

Dr Valberg also describes VEDM ie vit e deficiency myopathy. Who knows what you are dealing with. The important thing is you are getting good results with vit E. Mine responded really well and really quickly to vit E. Prior to that he had tied up and gone down so he had serious problems. I can see it is better to throw money at something that could help the horse rather than a test so I would carry on with vit e, exercise and make sure the horse is constantly warm and has an exercise sheet. These 3 things may resolve your problem and you will have to live with the uncertainty. If you are still missing something try alcar which is pretty cheap.

That is basically what I did and what worked for mine.

Thanks Paddy555, that is interesting about the VEDM too - will have a look into that. I think doing an experiment of one and figuring out what works for the horse in front of us is pretty much where we're at, but I've been driving my poor husband mad as I don't live with uncertainty well. :lol:
 

burtie

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyQCvE9aXt4

This is Dr Valberg's presentation on PSSM. Its over an hour long, but it is absolutely worth watching. She doesn't say that every horse with shifting lameness etc has PSSM - her own horse had arthritic hock changes - but she does discuss myopathies in depth. Vitamin E deficiency can present like PSSM, so supplementing that is a good first step.

Thanks for the link, really interesting and great to see all the research going on in America. I found the change of use bit particularly poignant as my now 15 year old PSSM Dressage horse has retired to fun jumping and hacking. He still finds jumping(on good days) quite fun and easy, but would struggle to do more than a Novice Dressage test now.
 
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OldFogie

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I'll add my thanks for that link too - I've now embibed so much academic YouTube that my head hurts - interesting to see immediately that while this problem has a sassy modern name - it's said in the same breath as tying up and stringhalts - old as Noah's boat.

I assisted ( well, in the end half the village assisted) an extreme stringhalt that suddenly occurred in a girl's TB about a mile from home (on her way out) a fine example of Monday Morning Disease all the old uns said despite it being a Sunday. One of the poor thing's hinds had pulled up so hard he looked like a broken venetian blind - about ten people virtually carried him into my mare's yard ( nearer and safe) where we all took turn to massage which seem to be the concensus of opinion at the time (1978) horse fully recovered in two or three days and had no further presentations.

Cutting through all the academe it seems that the affected horses are running out of muscle energy because their bodies have deposited sugar in an inaccessible form (work will obviously bring that on quicker ) - there appears to a genetic element and there doesn't - I'll buy that.
 

SEL

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I suspect there are genetic elements to all horses that have ongoing tying up issues - we just haven't tracked down the responsible genes yet. One of the US labs is having a fair go though.

Lots of debate on the US FB pages about breeding. Personally I would never breed from my mare knowing she has a 50% chance of passing this on. Obviously I can't breed from the gelding but if he was my only experience of pssm then I'd wonder what all the fuss was about - no real issues at all. I'd clone him if I was rich enough!
 

Bertolie

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to me you could be describing a hoof problem. What are the vet's conclusions? All those symptoms happened to one of mine. Turns out he had PPID at around 5 or 6. Not saying yours has but your symptoms can relate to many things and I would be asking the vet precisely what the x rays etc were showing and the condition of the feet. I would not immediately be looking at PSSM from what you describe.

I had a brief explanation of the results of the xrays from my vet and then she left the practice. I'm trying to get the senior vet to run through the results with me.

She was referred to Langford to be seen by the head shaking expert who immediately picked up on the reluctance to go forward so called in the lameness expert. The results from the lameness locator are what we are looking at at present with a bute trial starting this week. The reason for my question was that PSSM has been suggested by several people and my knowledge of the condition is zero! Hopefully we can get to the bottom of whatever it is that's troubling her as she isn't a happy bunny at present.
 

DabDab

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OP - in terms of symptoms (& I'll stick to my mare as the gelding is retired)


  • Really struggles to pick back feet up for trimming. Came to me needing sedation, but even 2 years post diagnosis and with an exceptionally patient trimmer we still can't bring her hind legs forward for rasping etc. All has to be done in 'hoof picking out' position.
  • Gets very tight hamstrings. I suspect its all related to the tightness in her hindquarters, which also led to the severe arthritic changes in her hocks - diagnosed at 6 when she'd barely done anything.
  • Cold backed. The first time you get on her in a session she will need to walk off straight away and there will be a lot of head shaking. Cannot get on her from the ground first thing either. Once warmed up you can mount from ground and she'll stand stock still.
  • Canter was shocking and if she's out of work for any time then it can take weeks to get it back. She finds it very hard and will often buck in protest. I have learnt that she needs to be ridden through it and it does get better.
  • PSSM mainly affects the fast twitch muscles so you can have horse that looks and feels perfectly sound in walk but then turns into a cripple in trot. I have learnt to pop on a long rein and do a few circuits of 'lame' trot whilst she warms up. She looks to onlookers to be one of those cobby types that just doesn't go forward, so its a bit of a surprise to people when she's feeling well because then she looks amazing and you barely need any leg. When she's 'off' she's a shocking ride sadly.
  • Hard muscles. I am lucky to have an amazing bodyworker who took her life into her hands the first time she worked with her (she'd just lash out when she was sore). When she's bad I'm told her muscles feel tighter than a GP dressage horse.



I think my mare is on the middle to poor PSSM spectrum. She doesn't have the ongoing severe tie-ups that eventually lead to them being PTS, but equally diet and exercise have only had marginal improvement - born out by testing her CK levels regularly. Luckily for her I promised her a home for life!

This pretty much sums up my boy's symptoms too, and he also has PSSM 1.
Canter disappears so fast when not worked 5-6 times a week - trot will become difficult and he'll want to grind to a halt but can work through it, but canter becomes just a front end leap as he tries to do the transition, followed by an ineffectual stuttering with his limbs in a weird lame donkey jerking action. 10 minutes later his canter is silky smooth, perfectly balanced and adjustable, its just like riding two different horses.

Like SEL, as standard the start of every session just involves wanging him round the school on a long rein.
 

Feral

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Hi, I have just been in tears reading this post.
I bought my mare 7 months ago and have been struggling with her since, she has only just gone 5 so I was thinking she was bone idle and lazy but she is getting worse and the weird thing is I don't see her as a plod, i can see what she could be but have always felt something is blocking her but not enough to be able to explain it to a vet.
.
The symptoms of feeling pottery/not been able to trot but perfectly sound in walk really hit home when i read the above posts.

I have sent a sample to animal genetics only yesterday but tbh a lot of the symptoms fit.
I have only ridden her twice when I have managed to 'get the hand break off' and OMG she did indeed feel absolutely amazing and a totally different horse. I have not been able to do it since, partly because it is a struggle and partly because I feel awful if she is in pain.

Would you recommend to work her through this pain?

I am keeping a diary but she is particularly bad at the moment and will not trot at all. (i clipped her just over one week ago and the problem got much worse since, could she be cold? she does not feel cold?)

xx
 

SEL

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Hi, I have just been in tears reading this post.
I bought my mare 7 months ago and have been struggling with her since, she has only just gone 5 so I was thinking she was bone idle and lazy but she is getting worse and the weird thing is I don't see her as a plod, i can see what she could be but have always felt something is blocking her but not enough to be able to explain it to a vet.
.
The symptoms of feeling pottery/not been able to trot but perfectly sound in walk really hit home when i read the above posts.

I have sent a sample to animal genetics only yesterday but tbh a lot of the symptoms fit.
I have only ridden her twice when I have managed to 'get the hand break off' and OMG she did indeed feel absolutely amazing and a totally different horse. I have not been able to do it since, partly because it is a struggle and partly because I feel awful if she is in pain.

Would you recommend to work her through this pain?

I am keeping a diary but she is particularly bad at the moment and will not trot at all. (i clipped her just over one week ago and the problem got much worse since, could she be cold? she does not feel cold?)

xx

Hi Feral - what breed is your horse? Animal Genetics are really good at responding quickly so I'd hold off doing any work if she's that uncomfortable until you have the results. There are a lot of conditions that can present like PSSM and you don't want to cause more damage if you're on the wrong track. Saying that box rest is a killer with PSSM horses so turnout and walk work (so long as not actually lame) will keep your horse ticking over.

In the meantime it is worth looking at diet because a PSSM appropriate diet won't harm a horse that hasn't got it. My mare finally has squishy muscles and to get there I've really had to restrict grass. This time of the year is always hard work because it grows so quickly. She's now on a bald paddock with soaked hay and feels so much better. Her hard feed is minimal and mainly to get vitamin E into her. You need to keep the sugar and starch content as low as possible and even some grass nuts and chaff can be too high.

Natural vitamin E (its expensive, you'll need to buy on line because most supplied in shops also has selenium and will be toxic at the levels you need to feed it). I feed 6000iU a day but have been up as high as 10000iU when she's feeling sluggish. Magnesium Oxide and salt also supplemented and I need to add a good glug of vegetable oil for energy.

Rugging up warm is also required for a lot of PSSM horses and if you've clipped and had the same high winds and cold spells that I've had it could easily give you an issue. When you slip a hand under the rug you need to actually feel a PSSM horse is warm - I over rug mine by around 50-100g compared to a 'normal' horse and some need a lot more than that.

Don't get upset yet. Wait for the results, try the diet and management changes and see how you go. If the test does come back positive then physio is really helpful to get the muscles loosened up too.
 

Feral

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Hi,

I had the physio on Friday who worked to loosen her up as he said she was very sore and tight. Since then she has just getting worse!
She was lay down in the field this morning when I went to catch her (she is muzzled and out overnight) and she could barely move when she stood up. She did walk it off soon enough but trotting is still a big no no.

I have started her on vitamin E pure oil today and cut out the balancer i started giving her two weeks ago along with a hormone supplement.
She is getting kept in for a few days now to see if that helps (I will long rein her and walk her out three times a day though)

She is a coloured native cob (some traditional and fell in there but she is not massively heavy)
She is a good doer and I have also had her tested to see if she is homozygous as i read in quarter horses the homozygous ones are often the ones who have this condition.

All in all I am going to try all I can with the diet first before going to further vet investigations.

I also doubled her rug weight this morning too so she is now in a 250gm (up from 100)
She has plenty of fat on her so I thought it would also help with weight loss been rugged less but that is not going to work.

I am at my wits ends with her as she never particularly strikes me as a lazy pony but more that there is something blocking her.
 

SEL

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Your animal genetics test will come back as one of 3 options

n/n - does not have PSSM type 1
n/p1 - has one copy (heterozygous)
p1/p1 - has two copies (homozygous)

Both of the last two means your horse has it and sadly whether its one or two copies of the genes doesn't always make a difference. My mare has one copy and is hugely symptomatic, whereas the gelding has two and has barely any symptoms. They know there are other genes at play which make some horses more symptomatic than others, but they just don't know what they are.

With what you are describing I think it would be worth a vet visit though - getting a blood panel isn't hugely expensive (£100 ish depending on your call out charges). You may well be dealing with an underlying infection or other issue which needs treating. I was fully expecting to find out my mare had tied up once but the bloods showed high liver enzymes and we had to treat for it. No idea what caused the liver damage but it made her feel very unwell.

Interesting that you had introduced a balancer. There are quite a few horses on the PSSM facebook forum who cannot handle balancers - including my mare.
 

paddy555

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Would you recommend to work her through this pain?

I am keeping a diary but she is particularly bad at the moment and will not trot at all. (i clipped her just over one week ago and the problem got much worse since, could she be cold? she does not feel cold?)

xx

in our part of the UK (south) it has been cold and for the last couple of days very cold. My PSSM is in a 450g rug overnights and out in the day in at least 200g. If your mare has PSSM I would imagine she has been very cold.

The first thing to do (as far as PSSM goes) is to give 10000iu per day of vit e. Give it a week and see how she goes on that
Don't keep her in at all, PSSM horses must wander.
I wouldn't ride, that is not fair if she is in pain.
I would long rein for 20 mins a day and see how she is. For the next 3/4 days until the vit e kicks in I wouldn't expect very much, just a case of keeping her going but if vit e kicks in and shows improvement I would get on with the long reining, 20 mins per day working up to an hour. Once mine got to an hour I got back on. Long reining you can see exactly how they are moving.

What are her hind quarters like? if you stand at the side and wobble it is it like blancmange, nice and floppy or hard as a board and very little movement"

I guess you are testing for PSSM1. If this is negative then there is also the possibility of PSSM2 which will have to be eliminated.
Mine gets equimins advanced complete. Not sure if that counts as a balancer or not. He also gets magox and salt.
 

Feral

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Yeah, I'm not sure if it is the balancer that has triggered things and possibly the clipping.
She went away for schooling in November and December, came back in January and worked well through January and I thought we were finally getting somewhere. (she was in 24/7 and worked everyday while away for 8 weeks with no hard feed)
I then clipped her end if January and she broke out in hives a few days later and had to have four weeks off.
In that time I started the balancer and when I started riding her again she was awful (not stiff, just very reluctant to go forward) I took it to her been young and went back to long reining/lunging.
I stopped the balancer then as warmer weather started and she was putting weight on.

Started hacking her three weeks ago and started the balancer again two weeks ago and clipped her four days after starting the balancer and she has really gone down hill since then.
The day before clipped her we had the best hack to date and even a little canter, she was forward and enjoying herself.

Yes, vet is going to be called. I have not tried box resting her yet so she is in from today and all feed stopped. If no improvement by the weekend I will be getting the vet on Monday.

She is alert in herself and nuzzling, loving the fuss.
 

PapaverFollis

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I wouldn't work her through anything until you have confirmed PSSM.

Even then it's a case of carefully introducing work. I've never felt the need to "push" mine through any pain. Just introduced work very gradually and she stays comfortable. For others I think there's a greater element of working through stiffness but I'd want the diet and management fully in place before I would be happy to do that personally.

From what you describe in your shoes I would also have a conversation with a vet at this point.
 

Feral

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in our part of the UK (south) it has been cold and for the last couple of days very cold. My PSSM is in a 450g rug overnights and out in the day in at least 200g. If your mare has PSSM I would imagine she has been very cold.

The first thing to do (as far as PSSM goes) is to give 10000iu per day of vit e. Give it a week and see how she goes on that
Don't keep her in at all, PSSM horses must wander.
I wouldn't ride, that is not fair if she is in pain.
I would long rein for 20 mins a day and see how she is. For the next 3/4 days until the vit e kicks in I wouldn't expect very much, just a case of keeping her going but if vit e kicks in and shows improvement I would get on with the long reining, 20 mins per day working up to an hour. Once mine got to an hour I got back on. Long reining you can see exactly how they are moving.

What are her hind quarters like? if you stand at the side and wobble it is it like blancmange, nice and floppy or hard as a board and very little movement"

I guess you are testing for PSSM1. If this is negative then there is also the possibility of PSSM2 which will have to be eliminated.
Mine gets equimins advanced complete. Not sure if that counts as a balancer or not. He also gets magox and salt.


Yes, I have started with the Vitamin E today and given her 10000iu
I was going to keep her in from tonight for a few days- and walk out 2-3 times per day.... (she usually goes out at night muzzled) - the reason been is that she is on a large field with good grazing. Not that I think this is the cause for what is going on right now as she has been out on grass for a few weeks now although we have recently had rain so who know if the sugars are effecting her?

I will check her quarters tonight when I get there, they were floppy on Friday when the Phsyio had finished as he showed me how floppy they were but will be interesting to see if they have tightened up again and are hard
 

Feral

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I wouldn't work her through anything until you have confirmed PSSM.

Even then it's a case of carefully introducing work. I've never felt the need to "push" mine through any pain. Just introduced work very gradually and she stays comfortable. For others I think there's a greater element of working through stiffness but I'd want the diet and management fully in place before I would be happy to do that personally.

From what you describe in your shoes I would also have a conversation with a vet at this point.


Yes, the way it is going is a vet coming out. Im going to give it until Monday and see if taking her off the balancer has any effect at all.
 

paddy555

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I would really caution on keeping her in. Can she be yarded, have a smaller area of field, be on a track if you don't want her in a large field. Anything to keep her wandering. The things that will have the greatest impact will be high dose vit E and warmth.
If neither of those work, even a little, then I would possibly be wondering. I would get your PSSM1 results before getting the vet out. Do one thing at once.
 

Feral

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I would really caution on keeping her in. Can she be yarded, have a smaller area of field, be on a track if you don't want her in a large field. Anything to keep her wandering. The things that will have the greatest impact will be high dose vit E and warmth.
If neither of those work, even a little, then I would possibly be wondering. I would get your PSSM1 results before getting the vet out. Do one thing at once.


Yeah, i am trying to do things slowly.

So today I have stopped the balancer, put a heavier rug on and introduced Vitamin E.
I will take her for a walk tonight and then put her out as normal muzzled and pray over the next couple of days I will see a change in her.

I am hoping results will be back by Friday too.
 

Feral

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Sooooo.....
turned out last night in a 350gm rug
started vitamin e oil last night and stopped hard feed.

The difference in her this morning is noticeable!! She walked in fine and kept up with my other pony. Long reined her out and asked for a little trot and she was almost ok!! still slightly off but a 90% improvement from yesterday

I mean the only thing that could have already helped has got to be the rugs!

Roll on these test results coming back!
 
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