PTS rather than face an uncertain future - what is the vets perspective on this?

[kit279]

This is a purely theoretical question as I'm fortunate enough to have my own yard and land so all of mine do have a guaranteed future with me. However, there are lots of owners out there who do not have that luxury and may have a horse that has physical and/or behavioural problems that they can no longer care for. There are a lot of threads on whether you should PTS or sell on and also a number of threads where owners have been stung where the horse has gone on to an uncertain and unsavoury future.

So, what is the vets perspective on this? If an owner requests that the vet puts a horse to sleep, without there being an obvious clinical indication, what is the vet required to do? Is it service provision - i.e. whatever the client wants, the client gets? Or can the vet refuse on the grounds that it is not in the animals best interests? Presumably this would be difficult as the owners could easily send the horse to a hunt yard or similar to have it PTS.

I am just curious as my father was a vet and I can remember him helping several owners in that situation (moving abroad, didn't want the cat/dog to have to be rehomed via a shelter so came to have it PTS) to find new home, however he never did this for any of the equine clients. I am curious as to what the current guidelines are.

Any thoughts or experiences?

 

[AmyMay]

A vet can and will refuse to put an animal down if they feel it's unwarranted.

But obviously if there is no clinical indication then why would you want to put a horse down? I would class having a physical or behavioural problem to be a clinical indication though - so would imagine a good case could be put forward for an animals destruction.

As for a vet's perspective on pts rather than face an uncertain future - who in their right mind would say an owner was wrong in wanting do to this - vet or not.

Of course the simple answer for anyone finding themselves in this situation - with an unsupportive vet - is to simply call the hunt.

 

[horsesatemymoney]

My vet (old vet actually) refused to put horses down if their owners couldn't afford the horse anymore

 

[Pearlsasinger]

It's a pointless debate, as either the Hunt or a knacker will pts without question. Horses can be shot either at home or at a slaughterhouse or at kennels, so there is still plenty of choice available to a responsible horse-owner who would rather not have a horse passed on to an uncertain future.

 

[jrp204]

We have a mare, slipped off a step outside her stable and 'did' a ligment in her hock, on 2 nd scanning 4 months later they also found 2 bone chips. She has been on box rest for 6 months, turned away for 6 weeks and then brought back into work slowly. All going well until friday last week, she is lame again. Vet suggests sending her to Bristol, 3 hrs away for scanning and poss op, but this will put us over our insurance limit, something I cannot do as funds will not allow it. So, she will go to our local specialist for scanning etc. The chips are in a really awkward place so surgery holds no guarantees. Obviously, the vet will not destroy her as she can basically stand in a field and eat.
So, my daughters new horse (we had had her 2 weeks, daughter competing her prior to this) is unlikely to be able to stand up to much ridden work, worth nothing as a brood mare, she has quite good breeding i have been told but noone wants brood mares, and I have no money to replace her. Rubbish situation really. In reality, bar a miracle, I will probably have to seriously consider her future, not sure if our vet will agree though.

 

[horsesatemymoney]

It's a pointless debate, as either the Hunt or a knacker will pts without question. Horses can be shot either at home or at a slaughterhouse or at kennels, so there is still plenty of choice available to a responsible horse-owner who would rather not have a horse passed on to an uncertain future.

It's not really though, if the debate's about it the vet would do it, as I'd find it difficult to use the method of disposal that you mention for my horse, but that's my complete personal preference, so if I was faced with not being able to have a secure and safe home, and having to use the hunt, then it would be a harder decision for me. I'm sure it would boil down to having them disposed of in a way that I wasn't happy with, as that's miles better than passing around, but it wouldn't be my first choice of method.

 

[mcrobbiena]

Animals are classed as property of their owner so they are supposed to do what the owner asks,individual vets may not want to but the practice would normally allow it. Vets are supposed to if asked though but they can obviously suggest alternative solutions.

 

[horsesatemymoney]

Animals are classed as property of their owner so they are supposed to do what the owner asks,individual vets may not want to but the practice would normally allow it. Vets are supposed to if asked though but they can obviously suggest alternative solutions.

Yes, I thought the vet wouldn't be able to refuse, surely if the owner can't afford it and there's problems, then it's better to PTS with the vet if that's what the owner wants?

 

[mcrobbiena]

ETA PTS a horse humanely is not classed as animal cruelty, vets do have a duty to report cruelty to animals

 

[Shantara]

A vet refused to put my cat to sleep and we still feel awful for not really pushing for it. She just got worse, not better and I think that extra week was not fun for her.
I was, however, grateful for her last day out in the sun.
She was clearly suffering, I don't understand why he wouldn't do it. She was blind, deaf and was scratching her face off due to meds we were given. My poor girl wasn't a happy kitty :'(

 

[_GG_]

My vet (old vet actually) refused to put horses down if their owners couldn't afford the horse anymore

Then in my opinion, that vet should not be practicing. PTS is the only way to guarantee the future of the horse. Anything else is open to change.

That kind of attitude has no place in animal care. It is far more responsible to end a life humanely than allow it to continue in neglect.


Every vet I have known or worked with has supported owners whatever the reasons, usually thankful when owners make the decisions themselves.

 

[_GG_]

A vet refused to put my cat to sleep and we still feel awful for nothing really pushing for it. She just got worse, not better and I think that extra week was not fun for her.
I was, however, grateful for her last day out in the sun.
She was clearly suffering, I don't understand why he wouldn't do it. She was blind, deaf and was scratching her face off due to meds we were given. My poor girl wasn't a happy kitty :'(

That just makes me sad for you. Where do these vets work? I have known so many over the years with my moving around and have never known a vet be anything other than extremely supportive on this issue.

Don't get me wrong, if a perfectly healthy animal was due for destruction because owners were moving abroad or something, then there is a case for a vet asking fir time to maybe see if the animal can be rehomed, but i don't see how they can refuse.

I have a plan for my horses and dogs and if they can't be with certain people, they would be PTS is anything happened to me. It's horrible and there is quite a list of people that are willing and that I trust to take them, but to think of them ending up in dealers yards or shelters just makes me shudder.

 

[erwina]

My vet was telling me to stop wasting money on my lame mare and do the sensible thing and PTS, he said I had enough injured horses already and not to add another one to the collection of field ornaments, so I'm sure he'd have no problem PTS an injured horse.

 

[Shantara]

That just makes me sad for you. Where do these vets work? I have known so many over the years with my moving around and have never known a vet be anything other than extremely supportive on this issue.

Newport Pagnell. It was awful, the worst week of my life (and I'm sure hers, too)
They actually did the same thing with Annie, but on this occasion, they were in the right. We were being too quick (not me, I might add! I knew she would be ok)
She had done her leg in and had an icky tummy. A few days of meds and rest and she was ok again. Though, we had taken her with the option of PTS, we weren't certain like we were with Holly.
A few months later and Annie is as happy as ever

 

[fburton]

Yes, I thought the vet wouldn't be able to refuse, surely if the owner can't afford it and there's problems, then it's better to PTS with the vet if that's what the owner wants?
-----
If you can't afford to feed 'em, then please don't breed 'em.

Presumably this means afford to feed them over their lifetime, not just next week, month or year?

 

[touchstone]

Then in my opinion, that vet should not be practicing. PTS is the only way to guarantee the future of the horse. Anything else is open to change.

That kind of attitude has no place in animal care. It is far more responsible to end a life humanely than allow it to continue in neglect.


Every vet I have known or worked with has supported owners whatever the reasons, usually thankful when owners make the decisions themselves.

Well said GG; in fact many welfare charities will recommend pts if a horse owners circumstances change and the horse can't be rehomed for whatever reason.

My friend is a small animal vet, and is usually supportive of pts decisions. She despaired when owners continually turned up at the surgery for treatment for an animal that was obviously suffering and no longer enjoying life.

There are healthy horses destroyed every day of the week, if the owner is unable to care for the horse then often pts is kinder than some of the alternatives and I think most vets realise this.

 

[horsesatemymoney]

Then in my opinion, that vet should not be practicing. PTS is the only way to guarantee the future of the horse. Anything else is open to change.

That kind of attitude has no place in animal care. It is far more responsible to end a life humanely than allow it to continue in neglect.


Every vet I have known or worked with has supported owners whatever the reasons, usually thankful when owners make the decisions themselves.

Yes, she was very sure that she would only put to sleep if she believed the animal was suffering, and the prognosis was not good.

Presumably this means afford to feed them over their lifetime, not just next week, month or year?

This might explain her rationale- circumstances change and somebody who has had 6 months unemployed and wants to PTS might win the lottery, or get a job.

 

[AmyMay]

Yes, I thought the vet wouldn't be able to refuse, surely if the owner can't afford it and there's problems, then it's better to PTS with the vet if that's what the owner wants?

But they can and do refuse. There is no law or compunction that insists that they must put an animal down if the owner requests it.

 

[DJ]

.
There are healthy horses destroyed every day of the week, if the owner is unable to care for the horse then often pts is kinder than some of the alternatives and I think most vets realise this.

This is a nutshell.

Vets aren`t blind to the massive over population we are currently seeing in the UK. Virtually every rescue is full to bursting point, there are cases of abandoned/neglected horse popping up on a daily basis. With this in mind 99% of vets out there can, and do openly support humane PTS at home.

 

[zoelouisem]

I know it's a dog but when my elderly dog starting having small fits that would only get worse and made her very upset and snappy, I made the decision to PTS the vet at the practice tryed to pursuade me to put her on steroids that could prolong her for another 3-6 months, but had the chance of having one big fit that left her on the floor was not an option for me she was nearly 16 years old and had a happy long life as a yard dog.
I requested a different vet who praised me in making the decision and said she wished more owners were like me. They were both from the same practice. And this was a dog with something actually wrong with her!

 

[thatsmygirl]

My friend had their old lad pts not long ago and the vet actually said it was nice to pts a old lad who had a active life and knew nothing but a loving home. Said he pts healthy young horses every week and finds it quite hard.

 

[noodle_]

I had a horse pts he had a hole in his tendon, was operated on, 12 months box rest, then another 12 month as a pet (he couldnt withstand being ridden) wen tlame again

vet saw a "healthy" horse, lame but ok....i elected to have him pts, he wasnt young but vet said "are you sure...." this was before the market really crashed....

same vet also euthanaised my perfectly sound mare, however her insides were basically killing her which we knew so again pts - but no issue with this i think they were glad when i realised we HAD to call it a day

so i guess depends on the circumstances?

but in this day and age...i think the most responsible thing to do is euthanasia....
well or not....


my horse is my property - she will have a long as useful life as long as i can, but if shes ill/terminal ill i will have her humanely destroyed....and i know i have a vet that will



ets - im in no position to offer a retirement home for a young horse (my mare was 6), i pay a lot of money for livery sadly so cannot offer this BUT even if i could my mare i would have still had pts.....the gelding may have been ok as a lawnmower...but my mare would be pts regardless - just wasnt meant to be on this earth

 

[ATrueClassAct]

I had this talk with my vet yesterday. He said you can line up 20 different people and all will give you a different answer to the question "when is the time right?" I've been told PTS my old lady because she is unrideable however in my eyes I can offer her a happy pain free, secure and pay for all her needs but it means I cannot afford another rideable horse. I could phone up a vet today and they would put her to sleep without any questions, even though currently she is not lame or in pain but she's a 24 year old retired horse with cushings disease. My vet has said as long as I can offer her a pain free retirement where her basic equine needs are fulfilled then he says it is not her time to go.

 

[_GG_]

I had this talk with my vet yesterday. He said you can line up 20 different people and all will give you a different answer to the question "when is the time right?" I've been told PTS my old lady because she is unrideable however in my eyes I can offer her a happy pain free, secure and pay for all her needs but it means I cannot afford another rideable horse. I could phone up a vet today and they would put her to sleep without any questions, even though currently she is not lame or in pain but she's a 24 year old retired horse with cushings disease. My vet has said as long as I can offer her a pain free retirement where her basic equine needs are fulfilled then he says it is not her time to go.

I agree wholeheartedly with you and your vet.

A situation that would worry me is one like yours where the owner wanted a rideable horse. If a vet wasn't happy to pts or the owner wouldn't consider it, where the hell would that lively old horse end up

 

[scarymare]

Hmm, just skimmed through this and quite shocked really. I had assumed that like sheep and cattle you could just phone vet at your whim (not saying I would before you start) and have them PTS.

I did ask my vet last year if I needed to justify my PTS decision and his answer was 'no, not to me but only to yourself'.

tbh I'd be pretty pissed off if I had any vet who questioned my decision - jeezo its not like its been taken lightly after all.

 

[Kenzo]

I think if you have a good relationship with your vets and they know the horse's history very well then there shouldn't be a issue, I know there wouldn't be with my vet and a close friend knows my wishes should anything ever happen to me as to what I want doing with my horse.

 

[ATrueClassAct]

Exactly. My vets opinion and mine is that they all deserve a dignified ending. She has checks every few months and I know my vet would say "that's enough now", he's known her since she was 7 years old. But I can't imagine the pain owners go through making the decision, especially with a younger horse.

 

[pip6]

My cat suddenly became unwell. Took him to vet, found heart failure, late stages. They suggested putting him on a concoction of tablets (6 a day) to give him a few more months. I elected to take him home until he wasn't happy (no tablets) & pts. Very heavily critisised my decision not to take medication, I explained he got very stressed being given 1 tablet, let alone 6 a day, & it would only give him a few months. Better to live less, but stress free & happy. So the end came a little sooner, he was happy & when it was time we knew it. It was terrible at the time being made to feel like a dreadful owner because we refused to force tablets down him but chose to pts. At the time of loosing my lovely boy, I so didn't need this.

I do hope vets are taught that there is a time to stop & it's a kinder option than some 'treatments' that don't offer a different final outcome.

 

[5bs]

I had my six year old heavy weight cob PTS yesterday, I had owned him just fourteen months, ridden him for seven of them.

The last seven months, he has done seven weeks box rest, and then I have been long reining him five days a week for an hour and a half, round the countryside up until this Monday.

Had the physio out Monday, and I felt he was getting worse, she spent a good hour with him, and she felt he had come to the end of the road. So i had my vet out yesterday am, he hadn't seen buddy, since he first went wrong in December, his condition was getting worse, and was now beginning to show signs of wobblers.

So I said to the vets, my head is saying PTS, my heart is saying hang onto him.
My vet reckoned he may last a couple of years in a field, but he will keep deteriating, and when does it then become the right time, as you start to not notice them getting worse as you see them everyday, and I didn't want my boy to go like that, so he came back in the afternoon and PTS. Buddy knew nothing, I however am a total wreck, but we are secondary in the decision.

My daughter is a large animal vet in New Zealand, she is very open with clients, and tells them as it is, she is very compassionate but does not sugar coat it, and the animals always come before the clients "emotions" , and to be honest if my horse had been out there, he wouldn't have gone through all the treatment he went through here,he would have been turned away for a year, see if he came right, if not, he would have been PTS, this is not a general for the whole of NZ, but a vast amount of her clients are cattle farmers , and they have more of a practical approach to things.

My vet, also very interestingly said to me, he PTS quite a few old horses in the Autumn, because owners "want to give them there last summer" , he said " the poor horses are dragged through the summer" , I personally, have never understood giving them one last summer, as they only know now, and the hard ground, the flies and the heat, are not my idea of one last happy summer.

Three years ago I had another of my horses PTS, upon X-ray he had some of the worst fetlock joints my vet had ever seen in a ridden horse, I was distraught , I booked the day to have him PTS, I then rang up a couple of days before, an emotional wreck, asking what else I can do " he said you can leave him in a field for a couple of years, to slowly fall apart in front of your eyes . Give him his dignity, whilst his coat looks good, and his eyes have a twinkle in them, and bite the bullet and PTS as agreed, he will only thank you for it"

However, both ot these vets know me well, and I have always told them to tell me as it is. If I didn't ask the right questions, I would more than likelyget different answers.

 

[_GG_]

I had my six year old heavy weight cob PTS yesterday, I had owned him just fourteen months, ridden him for seven of them.

The last seven months, he has done seven weeks box rest, and then I have been long reining him five days a week for an hour and a half, round the countryside up until this Monday.

Had the physio out Monday, and I felt he was getting worse, she spent a good hour with him, and she felt he had come to the end of the road. So i had my vet out yesterday am, he hadn't seen buddy, since he first went wrong in December, his condition was getting worse, and was now beginning to show signs of wobblers.

So I said to the vets, my head is saying PTS, my heart is saying hang onto him.
My vet reckoned he may last a couple of years in a field, but he will keep deteriating, and when does it then become the right time, as you start to not notice them getting worse as you see them everyday, and I didn't want my boy to go like that, so he came back in the afternoon and PTS. Buddy knew nothing, I however am a total wreck, but we are secondary in the decision.

My daughter is a large animal vet in New Zealand, she is very open with clients, and tells them as it is, she is very compassionate but does not sugar coat it, and the animals always come before the clients "emotions" , and to be honest if my horse had been out there, he wouldn't have gone through all the treatment he went through here,he would have been turned away for a year, see if he came right, if not, he would have been PTS, this is not a general for the whole of NZ, but a vast amount of her clients are cattle farmers , and they have more of a practical approach to things.

My vet, also very interestingly said to me, he PTS quite a few old horses in the Autumn, because owners "want to give them there last summer" , he said " the poor horses are dragged through the summer" , I personally, have never understood giving them one last summer, as they only know now, and the hard ground, the flies and the heat, are not my idea of one last happy summer.

Three years ago I had another of my horses PTS, upon X-ray he had some of the worst fetlock joints my vet had ever seen in a ridden horse, I was distraught , I booked the day to have him PTS, I then rang up a couple of days before, an emotional wreck, asking what else I can do " he said you can leave him in a field for a couple of years, to slowly fall apart in front of your eyes . Give him his dignity, whilst his coat looks good, and his eyes have a twinkle in them, and bite the bullet and PTS as agreed, he will only thank you for it"

However, both ot these vets know me well, and I have always told them to tell me as it is. If I didn't ask the right questions, I would more than likelyget different answers.

I'm so very sorry for your loss. If you need a pick me up, go join in my threads about memories, but if not, please take a big squishy virtual hug and my heartfelt sympathies.

Nothing more responsible than putting our horses before ourselves xxx