Puppies! Can now be purchased via PayPal! Yay!

Oh and by the way - don't click on that link any more - they don't deserve the traffic. They're ruining the German Shepherd Dog, in a bid to line their own pockets, that's all you need to know.
 
Oh hell - lets make it even easier for idiots to purchase puppies - and just in time for Christmas too..........

But it's ok because they are "not a puppy farm" or so their FB presence states.

So that's alright then.....:mad:
 
Whoaaaaaaa, there girls and boys, its the system which is the downfall not the people who take advantage of it. A breeders licence is fairly easy to get, so long as you have the correct premises and fulfill all legal requirements. Loads of people take advantage of this law - hence puppy farmers!!!!
We have been breeding dogs for over 15yrs, we have one breed , we have 6 generations at home, and some of them are creaking gates . Our intention was to enlarge the gene pool and eventually gain kc recognition for our breed. It goes to the kc 2011 . Without being able to breed our dogs the gene pool we are presenting to the kc would have been thrown out as the dogs are quite rare and good examples ven rarer. Our dogs have dominated the show ring s for the past 5 yrs , showing just what work went into them, yet, if I read correctly we would be classed as the people you are having a go at! yet our licence is just the same. I have always said that specialist breeders should not come under the same umberella as commercial breeders.

If you think about it though, for kc, you cant bereed of a bitch until her third season, then cant breed off them after they are 8 yrs old, and I do hear that in the future bitches will be limited to 3 litters in a lifetime. What about rare breeds like ours, should our breed suffer because of the commercial breeders. I know of people who breed from council houses.
Ok, so our dogs are lucky, they live in the middle of nowhere, they get unlimited walks along the river and in the woods . They are all related, we havent bought a dog in for 8 yrs now , so yes we alo line breed and inbreed if we feel we need to.

Have a go at the authorities and dont single out individuals, the law needs to change so these people cant continue, not persecute individuals, its not nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuMj9Y0ypWA

I love my dogs !!!! they are great, and no we dont go to shows really , its customers who have bought from us who show the dogs - btw, you will note some dogs are docked others arent, this is pre and post ban on docking, and I have no problem with terriers and long tails.
 
tweedette said:
Have a go at the authorities and dont single out individuals, the law needs to change so these people cant continue, not persecute individuals, its not nice.
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Diddums!

It's absolutely fine to haul up individuals, they're the ones running these ridiculous operations so why shouldn't they be held accountable for their actions?

When there's a difference between acting legally and acting ethically, anyone who complies with the legalities but not the ethics should be called into question - if the law changes, do you think these people will say 'oh no, I see the error of my ways, I've changed my attitude overnight and will now willingly comply with the law'??

The issue is predominantly not with changing the law IMO, it's about changing the attitudes of both the breeders and the buyers involved. Law is wasted on a society where people won't take responsbility for their actions.

I'm not advocating extremism/violence etc but if breeders will advertise their products on the internet I see nothing wrong in advertising that said people are morons :D
 
I've got no words. Anyone seen many tears animal rescue?
the amount of poor dogs on there labelled "ex breeding stock" from "breeders" (used VERY loosely) such as this, churning out as many puppies as possible, as many times as possible from them.
K x
 
MistletoeMegan said:
Diddums!
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What do you mean - diddums, its hardly the correct thing to say then go on about ethics or morals - what about manners .

Lets see this, cows breed every year, sheep breed every year, pigs will have 2/3 litters a year if you ean early like some places do. Fish are kept purely to produce eggs, the culled at the end of their use as are poultry . wild dogs breed every season, but loose many thats why they breed every season. feral cats breed all the time, so get down off your high horse and look at the facts. Many horses breed every year, and no, i'm not on about the moor, or hill ponies. Fact, Ferrets come into season and if they arent mated loose calcium and die, thats why people get a vasectomised hob!!! or get them vaccinated to get them out of season, as they will stay in season until they are mated.

I could go on but I wont as I rekon, your ethics are more important than fact.

I dont agree with targeting individuals never have never will, those are my ethics, and unless I saw something which I had concern over, its none of my business or yours or anyone elses as a matter of fact - leave the poor people alone. They have a licence- period!! Change the licencing laws if you are unhappy, lobby for those it would be a far better use of time.



I also think programmes such as animal rescue are a load of tosh , run by tree and bunny huggers, plus your obvious puppy cuddler.....its propoganda so you donate to the sspca or rspca, the biggest 'government'- oops charity, not!!!! run scam ever, lines loads of pockets and is run by statistics rather than common sense , busybodies with hats that could do good, but dont..
 
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Indeed, Tweedette, if there is a campaign to change licensing laws I think many people on here will be right behind it.

Until then, I shall continue to express my disgust at people who use their animals then throw them away.

You won't let your dogs give blood without their 'consent', but you think it's ok to treat dogs like this? You're an odd one and no doubt!
 
aye spuddy, that I am, an odd one . Its called life experience , dont get me wrong, I tut at puppy farms, ill treated dogs , but dont get involved unless there is something I can do to help all, which can only come about by correct licencing .

the sheps looked fine, many bitches 'milk off' when they have puppies, so do many animals, the yorkies were very commercial though, would I buy a pup from them , no!! but I wouldnt dob them in either.

I am disgusted by many things , but I dont let it bother me, I know everything of ours are just tickety boo!!! and no, I wont let my dogs give blood, but if a sibling or relative needed blood then I would have no choice , but only for my own. I dont even take my dogs to the vets unless its an emergency for fear of cross contamination, all vets come to us. would I have all the dogs together with pups in the house no!! I believe a bitch with new puppies needs peace and quiet not mauling by children, socialise when they are older, but leave mums alson until their proudness wears off, same with any animal really, isnt it.
 
MistletoeMegan said:
Diddums!

It's absolutely fine to haul up individuals, they're the ones running these ridiculous operations so why shouldn't they be held accountable for their actions?

When there's a difference between acting legally and acting ethically, anyone who complies with the legalities but not the ethics should be called into question - if the law changes, do you think these people will say 'oh no, I see the error of my ways, I've changed my attitude overnight and will now willingly comply with the law'??

The issue is predominantly not with changing the law IMO, it's about changing the attitudes of both the breeders and the buyers involved. Law is wasted on a society where people won't take responsbility for their actions.

I'm not advocating extremism/violence etc but if breeders will advertise their products on the internet I see nothing wrong in advertising that said people are morons :D
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Sorry tweedette, but I agree with this 100%
 
Tweedette, give over and then come back when you know what you are talking about.

The German Shepherd Dog is 100 years old, it's gene pool is large and there are quality animals all over the world including many in GB. There is no need to breed so closely as these people are doing, no excuse at all.

It is MY business and EVERYONE'S business with an interest in and love for the breed, if people are screwing it. It's the bigger picture, you need to look beyond your own back yard.

And people like you will be the ones who complain that GSDs are all inbred and their hips are shot - that is because of people like this - who think 'my dogs, my business' - BUSINESS being the operative word.
Maybe you think it's OK to breed dogs like cattle and sheep, but I don't.

These people are using their own studs and refusing to health test their dogs for one reason only - it costs money.

I am no fan of the Kennel Club but in this day and age, to claim that people do not know or need to be told what is right and wrong and ethical in dog breeding, especially in a breed like the German Shepherd which has suffered untold damage for decades because of people who reverse any old dog onto any old bitch and to hell with the consequences, as long as they sell pups - 'my dogs, my business' - is naive to say the least.

When your own breed is being screwed a few years down the line, then maybe you'll feel more strongly about it.
 
lol, know what im talking about - you have no idea, I wont reel off my cv, I have no need to , and yes, the licencing laws need tightening up, but!! each individual council is responsible for licencing. some councils say you can have as many as 5 breeding bitches before you need a licence, other councils 2. so its not a level playing field, there will always be backyard breeders, who will continue to offer puppies with pedigrees but no kc certificate , this way you can breed off a bitch every season and register just one litter a year, its these people who need targeting not individuals who have all the paperwork.

I'm not in favour of the site you listed but the dogs looked healthy, no doubt they are kennelled at night or even during the day, so what- some of my terriers are kenneled , its no big deal, my horses live in stables , cows in byres, pigs in sty's - well mostly unless you have some numpty who has one living in!! birds in cages, fish in bowls........... the list is endless, like I say its licencing and councils which want targetting not individuals to what - in this case cause distress and achieve what .nothing!!! But if it does achieve something, whats going to happen to all the brood bitches and youngstock they have run on - into a dogs home for rehoming - dogs trust phah!!!! sorry dont agree with passing problems on .

My breed was screwed in 1997, hence the introduction of new blood then , its hard work from a baseline point of breeding to bring animals back into line and improve them, we had dogs up to 18" and over 20k, they are now nicely back to well under 14" and around 14lb , stable, consistant and typey, plus sound!!!
We will be in danger of the dogs getting into the wrong hands once kc is attained as they are smart little dogs, but a good breed society will stop anyone from meddling, although I would say now we have a few meddlars, but they have no pull whatsoever. As for my dogs they will continue to go from strength to strength , and it will make it easier in the long run to stay at the top of the tree , let them mess, it wont affect us as they wont be allowed past the front door.
 
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In terms of the GSD, no, I don't think you know what you are talking about if you think this is acceptable practise but appreciate you have now said you are not in favour of the site.

My dogs are kennelled, I have no issue with that.

I don't want their dogs to be taken off them or PTS or whatever, I just want them to stop them collecting rescued bitches for free and repeat breeding them to the same two or three males with no health tests for the sole purpose of making cash.
I am sure they love and care for their individual dogs but they do not love and care for THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG as a breed, through their actions.

The worst way to hit people like this is in the pocket. If there is no financial gain, they will no longer churn out puppies in this way.

So if someone comes to me or any of my colleagues and asks me for a puppy, I can say, well, yes, you can pay £500 for a puppy from unknown parents, no health tests, could be anything lurking in the lines, little in terms of comeback if you do have any problems, or you could pay £500 for a puppy with a five gen pedigree, all health tested, shown, working titled, or both, so that if, God forbid, a problem crops up, you can identify which line it came from and that it can be eliminated from breeding programmes in future, from a kennel where they breed their bitches once or twice in a lifetime, not once or twice a year, where you will get back up for life, then they know there is a choice.

I don't want to fight anyone, I just want to let potential puppy buyers know, that there is a better alternative and when more puppy buyers seek out these better alternatives, support responsible breeding, then places like this will either go to the wall, or clean up their acts and get responsible.
Hurray.
 
I totally agree with you, and I do know a little about GSD'd, and yes the quality of them has deteriorated over the years, also in boxers and many other breeds, cavalier king charles spaniels a typical example are riddled with problems . Yes, I also agree these people are breeding off pet quality animals - look at their winnings lol, its hardly an advert for their kennels, but some people will buy from them so the pup gets a good home . A girl rang me yesterday, she had seen my daughters yorkie and wanted one, so off she went to look at a puppy 16 wks old with 10kg plus!!!! huge! parents- again pet breeders of sub standard pets.............our yorkie is nearly 3kg, and she is tiny, and wont ever be bred from shes my daughters baby , bought from a kc approved kennels at the cost of £600 and we never even got the papers, not that it matters as we wont be showing or breeding from her, so even reutable people arent any better really.

anyway, rules need changing, councils need to get their act together , but dont select individuals please its not them, they are just taking advantage of the system, but have a go at the council who licnces them, ask how many bitches you can own before they ask for a breeders licence.

all the best and no hard feelings, tweedette in very snowy scotland.
 
Don't talk to me about size - they've been warning us all about it since the 1970s and the males especially are still ending up looking like horses, including my own!! **steam comes out of ears**

Off through the snow myself now, oh joy.
 
My opinion is probably worth nothing as I know nothing about whippets.

As someone else mentioned a few weeks ago, true breeders breed for the ONE, whether that is a worker, a show dog, a companion, or to continue their line, like Tweedette (who appears to keep most of hers).

The rest can be pets, or workers, or show dogs, they can be whatever their owners want them to be.
All health tests carried out, good example of the breed, IE worked or shown lightly, good character above all else.
The partner animal should carry the same criteria, or else, what is the point?

People who breed a whole litter and keep not one, over and over again, nope, no time for that.

Some people, including one poster on here, have taken the painful decision and stopped lines going back decades because of one bum health test result, when they could have thought 'sod it, I'll outcross and hope for the best'.

I don't have very strong feelings on the guy on that thread, apart from where he admits topping up his income.
The dog is clearly a worker, which is something.

I don't know how many of you know this, but the office where I worked was closed two and a half years ago and I was 'severed'.
During the time since, I really have been on my uppers once or twice, real 'oh crap' moments.
I could have bred Bella two or three times since then and commanded obscene amounts of moneys for the pups, because I can talk the talk, she has her pink papers from Germany and is from very good lines.
But I haven't because I could not justify breeding a litter of pups to put money in my pocket, there are enough dogs out there already, and I know, despite all that heritage and background, that she just isn't good enough to breed from, not by a long shot.
 
We found in our breed it weakened to a point that females were slight and rather shelly, and the dogs were very big.......almost like the dimporphism you see in mustelids, we had to break this and the only way was to introduce new blood, but had to be careful not to introduce a terrier which was a composite, which could have brought in all kinds of faults and doubled up on the ones we already had in the breed.Hence the purist of terriers was added, bull terrier. Ok so it took 3 generations to get them to any kind of uniformity, but after that, it was fairly straightforward, its a case of breeding using the best you can, and tweeking once you are on the right lines. Its taken 15 yrs. Along thise 15 yrs we have battled with the 'purists', the ' dog wukkers' and many more its taken them 15 yrs to accept what we did was correct, still better late than never eh?

Brownmare, glad you are enjoing the thread - lots of puppies about, lots of horses, foals, kittens and other things just waiting for the christmas parent to buy, then put out in january when its destroyed the house or they just got bored with it as its not as cute anymore, or another million excuses. Fact - we overbreed in this country and dont have enough welfare regulations for back street breeders, we breed from unsuitable animals and produce inferior youngstock which look pretty as babies, and there is always a sucker ready to step in. We breed for the next step, another generation , always run at least two pups on from a litter when we have them , hoping they will make the grade and fit in to our breeeding programme.
 
Tweedette, I think I can claim to know a little about GSDs, and those bitches do not look happy, and do not appear to be suitably good specimens to be breeding off. I am not quite sure why you think these people churning out pups from poor quality bitches would compare with yourself, when you are apparently breed from show quality stock to strengthen and improve your breed.
I don't care if their dogs are kept in kennels or in the house, it is purely the fact they are breeding purely for commercial gain, as they seem to freely admit, and obviously do not have the interests of the breed at heart.
 
100%, tested in every way, we breed from only the very best, keep only the very best, feed and house in only the very best. Its been a breeding project working alongside the man who created the breed for the first 5 yrs in order to get the best possible start(he died of cancer in 2003). Then again we didnt have a large gene pool like you shep people do, you can import, we had to source where we could and do a tremendous ammount of investigation, looked 3.1/2 yrs to find a suitable dog for the 'next step' early on, and travelled the country looking for him. So its been a very serious project, but one which has come to fruition as its producing the stock we hoped for. Many kennels have based their lines on our stock, they too are also sucesssful.

As for the sheps we are talking about, I dont agree with breeding from inferior stock, never have, but I wont go into it or trawl the internet looking for breeders who I feel shouldnt breed - life is too short, plus it wont stop them, there will always be backyard breeders, and there will always be puppy farms, unless the government clamp down, but if they did, what happens to the likes of the dogs homes or dog wardens if there were no dogs handed in . no sad stories on tv from where they can scrounge money from the vunerable public . I would really like that, but its not going to happen. My problem with this thread is targetting one individual when the country is full of this kind of breeder, and many more who do keep breeding bitches in unsuitable housing.

As for making money, is impossible (well it is for us) to make money out of dogs, our are our life, you see a puppy here and you can see its parents , g.parents and gggranparents and depending on which bitch has been bred from ggg.grandparents although they are quite old now, but great old gals and guys. We have youngsters that are probably from the same mating that will be 18 mnthsold or so, which shows you an example of what your pup will look like. Traits of the breed follow through , and its strange for new owners to ring up and tell me what their pups are doing and we can say its just what their granddam does or something, its been a wonderful experience and a very sucessful one and I for one am very proud of what we have achieved and hope to give these dogs the recognition they deserve and get them recognised as a true breed.
 
tweedette said:
I totally agree with you, and I do know a little about GSD'd, and yes the quality of them has deteriorated over the years, also in boxers and many other breeds, cavalier king charles spaniels a typical example are riddled with problems
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"Where ignorance is bliss tis folly to be wise"

Please dont talk rubbish about something you know nothing about, CKCS have no more problems now than they did 30 years ago when I got to know the breed
 
Having read this tweedette, why on earth do you consider you are in any way similar to the person discussed in this thread?:confused: If I was suggesting you were an unscrupulous breeder then I could probably label myself the same, as in some ways I was very much the same, although obviously not with a rare breed (I'm curious by the way, what do you have?)

Personally I don't trawl the internet looking for these breeders, but if they are drawn to my attention I will do my best to do something about them. My late Mum was dedicated to GSDs all her life, and campaigned fiercely against indiscrimate breeding, I owe it to her memory to do the same . To a point I know what you mean about targetting one individual, but this isn't the only one I personally know of, and if even a few can be stopped it is a start. In actual fact I get just as cross about one person with a pet bitch having a litter without health tests etc, but at least they can't do as much harm as someone with a number of bitches churning out litter after litter.
 
FestiveSpirit said:
"Where ignorance is bliss tis folly to be wise"

Please dont talk rubbish about something you know nothing about, CKCS have no more problems now than they did 30 years ago when I got to know the breed
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WHAT??????? I think you need to talk to the AHT, Clare Rusbridge, The Kennel Club, The AKC, and various other Universities and researchers in that case and tell them they are wasting their time and money on CKS research. They must be mistaken then that CKS are listed with known health problems from MVD, Syringomylia, EF, luxatIng patella, cataracts, and retinal dyslplasia.
 
cefyl said:
WHAT??????? I think you need to talk to the AHT, Clare Rusbridge, The Kennel Club, The AKC, and various other Universities and researchers in that case and tell them they are wasting their time and money on CKS research. They must be mistaken then that CKS are listed with known health problems from MVD, Syringomylia, EF, luxatIng patella, cataracts, and retinal dyslplasia.
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LMAO :D I think I might know a little more about inherant problems with CKCS than the vast majority of people on this forum :p

Those problems were all present 30 years ago.......
 
FestiveSpirit said:
"Where ignorance is bliss tis folly to be wise"

Please dont talk rubbish about something you know nothing about, CKCS have no more problems now than they did 30 years ago when I got to know the breed
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I had Cavs in the 70's- I think thats 40 yrs ago lol if we are playing one upmanship, which I dont!,the problems were there then , pups born with no eyes whatsoever and these were from the very best of lines, all thats happened since then is that they have doubled up on faults and added a few more - hence the reason we put new blood into terrier our gene pool in the 90's .

I do have a wee bitty of an inkling -PLUS! I think your post is very rude to say you dont know me- and to call me ignorant is way over the top , but then again, you are a dog rehomer , and I dont believe in passing problems on - sure it keeps a few people in jobs as do many 'rescue' venues, but I'm totally against it having spent time at these places .

still I agree to disagree about rehoming animals, each to his own, but lets not turn this thread into a slagging match.
Like I said, challenge the system which allows commercial breeding of inferior quality stock, ring the licencing council but dont target - not individuals , I am sure your mum would agree with that rather than make a families life a misery , there are always innocents who suffer if you do this.
 
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I don't trawl the internet looking for individuals either, this site was brought to my attention by another user a few months ago when they were looking for a pup and I told them to run away, fast, in the other direction giving the reasons I have already mentioned.
It was then re-posted here by someone else, so I commented on it, because it is that sort of breeder who is doing untold damage to the GSD, whether they think/know it or not.

I haven't spent my time standing beside show rings and working fields, going to seminars, attending very loooong meetings, talking to people, talking to authorities, talking to other groups, about how we do our very best for this breed, only to sit back and say nothing when I see people screwing it.

Like I say, I don't want a fight with anyone, I just want to let people know that there is a better alternative and that if you want to spend money on a German Shepherd Dog, you can do the right thing, support responsible breeders and get a fantastic dog.
Otherwise? Rescue. Do not fund the lifestyle of people like that - because that is all you are funding - they will certainly not be ploughing their money back into health testing, selecting a great stud, or doing ANYTHING for the actual breed they claim to love.

For anyone reading this, who thinks that health testing is just for show and working dogs and it is not important when you want 'just a pet', I hope you are lucky enough (like us) never to have to live with a dog with HD or ED.
 
tweedette said:
I had Cavs in the 70's- I think thats 40 yrs ago lol if we are playing one upmanship, which I dont!,the problems were there then , pups born with no eyes whatsoever and these were from the very best of lines, all thats happened since then is that they have doubled up on faults and added a few more - hence the reason we put new blood into our gene pool in the 90's .

I do have a wee bitty of an inkling -PLUS! I think your post is very rude to say you dont know me- and to call me ignorant is way over the top , but then again, you are a dog rehomer , and I dont believe in passing problems on - sure it keeps a few people in jobs as do many 'rescue' venues, but I'm totally against it having spent time at these places .

still I agree to disagree about rehoming animals, each to his own, but lets not turn this thread into a slagging match.
Like I said, challenge the system which allows commercial breeding of inferior quality stock, ring the licencing council but dont target - not individuals , I am sure your mum would agree with that rather than make a families life a misery , there are always innocents who suffer if you do this.
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LMAO - DO tell me who you think I am then :D I would disagree completely about adding faults, as I have said above the faults have always been there but IMO are reported on more now than they were back then? Not saying that is a bad thing at all (although hysterical media coverage such as the Panorama programme do not help at all) but it is wrong to say that the faults are a new phenomenon.

Oh and I am not a dog rehomer BTW :p

ETA - what was your prefix BTW? :)
 
MurphysMinder said:
Having read this tweedette, why on earth do you consider you are in any way similar to the person discussed in this thread?:confused: If I was suggesting you were an unscrupulous breeder then I could probably label myself the same, as in some ways I was very much the same, although obviously not with a rare breed (I'm curious by the way, what do you have?)

Personally I don't trawl the internet looking for these breeders, but if they are drawn to my attention I will do my best to do something about them. My late Mum was dedicated to GSDs all her life, and campaigned fiercely against indiscrimate breeding, I owe it to her memory to do the same . To a point I know what you mean about targetting one individual, but this isn't the only one I personally know of, and if even a few can be stopped it is a start. In actual fact I get just as cross about one person with a pet bitch having a litter without health tests etc, but at least they can't do as much harm as someone with a number of bitches churning out litter after litter.
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No, I dont look on myself as similar, we have run a specialist breeding programme and monitored it each step of the way, sure its been controversial, but its also been highly sucessful . Even in our breed we get people breeding from unregisterd dogs , or using undesirable studs, I got myself into loads of trouble a few years ago, for creating havoc when an individual convinced several other people to use a 5 yr old dog riddled with cancer who died before he was 6 - the justification was ' he's a wukker' and we need wukking lines!!! My answer to that was hes not 'wukking' now is he?, This thoughtless action brought into our breed more problems. My concerns were proved correct as today I know of only 1 pup still alive from all the litters sired, she has been mated but has proved infertile.
Glad to say none of this blood is in our lines.
 
tweedette said:
still I agree to disagree about rehoming animals, each to his own, but lets not turn this thread into a slagging match.
Like I said, challenge the system which allows commercial breeding of inferior quality stock, ring the licencing council but dont target - not individuals , I am sure your mum would agree with that rather than make a families life a misery , there are always innocents who suffer if you do this.
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Sorry I missed this part of your reply - I could not disagree more unfortunately, and whilst I have not canvassed her opinions today (and therefore cannot speak for her, hence my opinions are all my own on here) I am pretty sure my mum would feel the same :)
 
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