Puppy night time... getting worse?

[SOS]

I recently got a new puppy. Now we have had dogs when I was younger, my partner has a dog etc but I have never had a puppy. I’m prepared to be slated if I am doing anything wrong.
Shes lovely, toileting so well and just a delight to be around. Until it gets to night time... I would like her to sleep downstairs in a crate. For various reasons, I travel around a bit normally (pre COVID) and she needs to be able to sleep in a crate. I also just personally don’t like dogs in the bed/upstairs. I also think it’s a bit risky to leave a puppy unattended loose downstairs all night.
I have read/heard/been told lots of theories on crate training overnight, from just ignore, to go to every whimper, to have them by your bed and move them away. I decided to go with ignoring the crying with scheduled toilet breaks... I’m now thinking I am going about this the wrong way.

During the day she is in and out of her crate. She spends controlled amounts of time in there with her special crate toy, her blanket from mum etc. and is very good. At night we do last meal at 8.30pm, big playing session so she’s tired then 11pm we do final toilet break and quietly to crate with special toy. Scheduled toilet breaks at 3am then 6.30pm again and up for the day. During toilet breaks she is taken out and basically ignored for 5 minutes until she does or does not toilet. If she does quick fuss and back in.

At night she has been crying but it is getting progressively worse and my neighbours have now expressed their concerns as they can hear her. I have only had her 4 days and was not expecting a silent puppy by any means but I didn’t expect her to be getting worse and the crying is actually increasing.

Night one: She whimpered quietly for the first hour. Then would settle for an hour or so, cry for 10 mins and back to sleep. No accidents, toileted at break.

Night two: Whimpered/howled for 2 hours before settling. Started up again after break for an hour then settled. No accidents, toileted at break.

Night three: Screamed/howled until 3am, did not toilet at break. Screamed again until 5 then slept until 7am (I left her longer so that she actually slept a bit). No accidents.

Night four (last night): Screamed entire night. No settling at all, did not toilet at break. In the end at 6am I came down and put her crate in the lounge and slept on the sofa. She then quietened down and slept fine. No accidents.

Now it sounds to me like she’s getting more and more stressed about the situation particularly as she’s not even relaxed enough to toilet during the break. I’m now very conscious about upsetting the neighbour and tempted to try having her near me sleeping on either the sofa or bed... but can you then ever wean them out of this?
Any ideas very welcome, really hoping I haven’t ruined my puppy. Thanks in advance.

 

[Clodagh]

Not advice, but saying what I would do. And you'll get 10 replies and all will be different!
Last meal is 4.30.
Regular bathroom breaks of course all evening.
Bedtime when it suits me, I try to stay up until 1030 for the first week.
I shut them in the crate downstairs and I go to bed. They do not have water in the cratem make sure it is warm and comfortable.
I do not go back into that room until 6am when I get up go down and lift them quickly into the garden, no saying hello.

I think, with lots of pups, I have had one wee in the crate, they can hold on, no biggie if they don't, it does not become a habit.
It is not cruel, they need to learn to deal with their own company.
I really need my sleep and if the pup is inconvenienced so be it.

I'd tell your neighbours its going to a long few nights and go for it.

 

[alibali]

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[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I am sure you won't have ruined her! But I would do things differently.
Where is the other dog? If the other dog is available to keep the pup company (not in the same crate), I would leave them together and expect pup to settle.
My pups get 4 meals per day, last one just before bed-time, then out, straight into crate with a small treat for going into crate with a toy, door shut. I usually have 2 pups together but one with canine company works as well, ime. I don't get up during the night, I don't want to disturb them. I do usually put 'training pads' in the crate but newspaper will do just as well.
If your pup is having a last meal at 8.30 it is a long time to wait until breakfast, even if that is at 6.30. Make sure that pup is warm enough overnight as if she is hungry and cold he is bound to be noisy.
I have never had a pup cry overnight, although I did once have an adult dog who cried during the first 2 nights! that I left her with a pup!

ETA, I certainly wouldn't leave any dog, especially a young pup, without water overnight.

 

[SOS]

Not advice, but saying what I would do. And you'll get 10 replies and all will be different!
Last meal is 4.30.
Regular bathroom breaks of course all evening.
Bedtime when it suits me, I try to stay up until 1030 for the first week.
I shut them in the crate downstairs and I go to bed. They do not have water in the cratem make sure it is warm and comfortable.
I do not go back into that room until 6am when I get up go down and lift them quickly into the garden, no saying hello.

I think, with lots of pups, I have had one wee in the crate, they can hold on, no biggie if they don't, it does not become a habit.
It is not cruel, they need to learn to deal with their own company.
I really need my sleep and if the pup is inconvenienced so be it.

I'd tell your neighbours its going to a long few nights and go for it.

Thanks for your reply. The neighbour in question is lovely just understandably values their sleep.

I am sure you won't have ruined her! But I would do things differently.
Where is the other dog? If the other dog is available to keep the pup company (not in the same crate), I would leave them together and expect pup to settle.
My pups get 4 meals per day, last one just before bed-time, then out, straight into crate with a small treat for going into crate with a toy, door shut. I usually have 2 pups together but one with canine company works as well, ime. I don't get up during the night, I don't want to disturb them. I do usually put 'training pads' in the crate but newspaper will do just as well.
If your pup is having a last meal at 8.30 it is a long time to wait until breakfast, even if that is at 6.30. Make sure that pup is warm enough overnight as if she is hungry and cold he is bound to be noisy.
I have never had a pup cry overnight, although I did once have an adult dog who cried during the first 2 nights! that I left her with a pup!

ETA, I certainly wouldn't leave any dog, especially a young pup, without water overnight.

I tried to include as much info in my OP as possible but still managed to miss all this out haha! So my partner does not permanently live with me, him and dog normally stay round 4-5 days a week. Currently my puppy has only had her first vac (she’s 9 and a half weeks old) and other dog, although fully vaccinated, visits many yards and sees their dogs (often unvaccinated) everyday so could bring home disease. Due to this we have decided to not let them mix until she is fully protected.

She gets 4 meals but happy to spread them out and have a later meal. She’s definitely warm enough as I have underfloor heating permenantly on throughout the house. Half her crate is blankets and a thick bed pad so it’s cosy and the other half a thin blanket (so she has the choice of hot or cooler). There are puppy pads underneath that.

She has a heavy ceramic bowl of water.

So other dog won’t be here all the time although my partner will hopefully be moving in early next year. But we need to be independent too. Her and the cat get on VERY well but the cat is not used to being crated!

 

[Fools Motto]

I had the spaniel pup in a slightly bigger crate, warm bed at one end, and enough space for some newspaper at the other. Small water bowl on a clip onto the bars. (never used it though!) Compete ignore noises between bedtime at about 11pm, and wake up at 6am. Shut in kitchen.
Both my lurcher pups, were just shut in the kitchen with a bit of paper by the back door. Dog beds as normal with blankets and sheets dependant on time of year. I think I had two or three nights of noises. Just got to ride the storm!! It's worth it in the long run.
Tell the neighbour what you are doing, - it won't last forever! (What breed is the pup by the way??!)

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thanks for your reply. The neighbour in question is lovely just understandably values their sleep.




I tried to include as much info in my OP as possible but still managed to miss all this out haha! So my partner does not permanently live with me, him and dog normally stay round 4-5 days a week. Currently my puppy has only had her first vac (she’s 9 and a half weeks old) and other dog, although fully vaccinated, visits many yards and sees their dogs (often unvaccinated) everyday so could bring home disease. Due to this we have decided to not let them mix until she is fully protected.

She gets 4 meals but happy to spread them out and have a later meal. She’s definitely warm enough as I have underfloor heating permenantly on throughout the house. Half her crate is blankets and a thick bed pad so it’s cosy and the other half a thin blanket (so she has the choice of hot or cooler). There are puppy pads underneath that.

She has a heavy ceramic bowl of water.

So other dog won’t be here all the time although my partner will hopefully be moving in early next year. But we need to be independent too. Her and the cat get on VERY well but the cat is not used to being crated!

I wouldn't want to crate the cat with the pup! But can you leave the cat in the same room as the pup? I wouldn't put the puppy pads under the blanket, that could encourage the pup to wee on the blanket, which you don't want.
I think you will have to ask your neighbours to be patient but explain that you are trying to set the pup up to be independent. You will notice that although the first people who have answered you don't all do the same with their pups, the one thing we do have in common is to leave the pup overnight without disturbance.

The problem is that when you go down at your planned time, she could take it as a reaction to her cries.


ETA, I have usually allowed pups to meet family dogs who are fit and healthy and go out and about from the beginning. It is a big difference to expect a young pup cope with going from living with mum and siblings to being an only dog at 9(?) weeks. Your cat, if it has the right temperament could prove to be very useful.

 

[SOS]

I had the spaniel pup in a slightly bigger crate, warm bed at one end, and enough space for some newspaper at the other. Small water bowl on a clip onto the bars. (never used it though!) Compete ignore noises between bedtime at about 11pm, and wake up at 6am. Shut in kitchen.
Both my lurcher pups, were just shut in the kitchen with a bit of paper by the back door. Dog beds as normal with blankets and sheets dependant on time of year. I think I had two or three nights of noises. Just got to ride the storm!! It's worth it in the long run.
Tell the neighbour what you are doing, - it won't last forever! (What breed is the pup by the way??!)

Sounds like I need to persevere then. The neighbour knows what I’m doing just ‘didn’t expect it to go on this long’ or be getting worse either.

She’s a whippet! So doesn’t really bark at night, more whimpering then screeching.

 

[Goldenstar]

Do you put a blanket over the crate ?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Do you put a blanket over the crate ?

Was just going to suggest this!

 

[CorvusCorax]

Mine took about 10 days to a fortnight to start sleeping overnight, she can go about 6-7 hours now. She was one of ten so I understand why she was upset.
I don't want her to toilet in crate.
She's in hall and at first I left bedroom door open but I shut it now.
Good headphones are a Godsend, you could maybe buy your neighbour a pair
I also left a ticking clock beside her and a radio on low.
Last feed 9.30pm, last toilet midnight, first toilet/first feed anywhere between 6-7.30am

One thing I always do during the day is leave the pup with a Kong with kibble so me disappearing isn't a negative. I need my dogs to be OK alone/travel/overnight in van etc so I try and set them up for this early.

 

[blackcob]

Just to prove you'll get at least 10 different replies ? I had my last one in a crate by my bedside, no scheduled toilet breaks but taken out if he woke and squeaked. There was another identical crate downstairs for reinforcing daytime settling stuff (me coming and going, being left alone, overtired naps).

I don't mind dogs upstairs or in beds in the long term but it was important to me to have a dog that would settle and sleep in a crate anywhere, any time, due to travelling and competing and whatnot. For me that meant never having a negative experience in the crate, i.e never being left to cry or the opportunity to soil it. Also I live in a terrace so I'd have had two sets of neighbours after me if we'd done cry it out.

 

[Lots of Gift Bags]

Just to prove you'll get at least 10 different replies ? I had my last one in a crate by my bedside, no scheduled toilet breaks but taken out if he woke and squeaked. There was another identical crate downstairs for reinforcing daytime settling stuff (me coming and going, being left alone, overtired naps).

I don't mind dogs upstairs or in beds in the long term but it was important to me to have a dog that would settle and sleep in a crate anywhere, any time, due to travelling and competing and whatnot. For me that meant never having a negative experience in the crate, i.e never being left to cry or the opportunity to soil it. Also I live in a terrace so I'd have had two sets of neighbours after me if we'd done cry it out.

This is what we've done and it's worked for us.

 

[TGM]

Agree with blackcob there is a compromise. You either put the pup in a crate and have it in your bedroom so it has the reassurance of human company but can't get in the bed (remember pup has just left mum and litter and in the wild would be very vulnerable alone at that age). Or you put the pup in a crate downstairs and sleep nearby (so possibly in the living room and you on the sofa). Pup then gets the reassurance of people nearby and you and your neighbour get a good night's sleep. Then when pup is settled in that routine you can gradually move the crate until it is in your desired overnight location. We did this with our first pup (with me sleeping downstairs with her) and it took about a week to get her settled enough to sleep in the kitchen on her own.

 

[SOS]

Do you put a blanket over the crate ?

No actually. Would you fully cover or just partially?

Thanks for all your replies so far. I really appreciate some more experiences. It seems I need to cut out her scheduled break.

Here’s a picture of her. She is such a lovely little dog, this is just our (MY) one issue I am working on.

 

[SOS]

Agree with blackcob there is a compromise. You either put the pup in a crate and have it in your bedroom so it has the reassurance of human company but can't get in the bed (remember pup has just left mum and litter and in the wild would be very vulnerable alone at that age). Or you put the pup in a crate downstairs and sleep nearby (so possibly in the living room and you on the sofa). Pup then gets the reassurance of people nearby and you and your neighbour get a good night's sleep. Then when pup is settled in that routine you can gradually move the crate until it is in your desired overnight location. We did this with our first pup (with me sleeping downstairs with her) and it took about a week to get her settled enough to sleep in the kitchen on her own.

Yes I have read about this process and last night she did settle when I came down at 6am and went to sleep on the sofa. Does the transition normally go quite smoothly? I imagined it would take several weeks...

 

[Goldenstar]

I would leave the bit with the door uncovered .
I might experiment with where I put the crate as well .
an old fashioned clock with a tick is another thing to try , put it close to the crate .

I am fraud ,I had Dram in a crate by my bed .
On night 4 I had to go out I came back later than I wanted and he just did not want to sleep .
I put him in my arms and took him to bed and he’s been there ever since ?

 

[Goldenstar]

Btw she’s beautiful .
I would just take her to bed but them I am hopeless

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

No actually. Would you fully cover or just partially?

Thanks for all your replies so far. I really appreciate some more experiences. It seems I need to cut out her scheduled break.

Here’s a picture of her. She is such a lovely little dog, this is just our (MY) one issue I am working on.
View attachment 58485

She is very pretty (and I am not a sight hound fan). I would cover the crate completely she will probably feel safer that way - and that might encourage the cat to sit on the crate too and keep her company..

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Just to prove you'll get at least 10 different replies ? I had my last one in a crate by my bedside, no scheduled toilet breaks but taken out if he woke and squeaked. There was another identical crate downstairs for reinforcing daytime settling stuff (me coming and going, being left alone, overtired naps).

I don't mind dogs upstairs or in beds in the long term but it was important to me to have a dog that would settle and sleep in a crate anywhere, any time, due to travelling and competing and whatnot. For me that meant never having a negative experience in the crate, i.e never being left to cry or the opportunity to soil it. Also I live in a terrace so I'd have had two sets of neighbours after me if we'd done cry it out.

This is what we've done and it's worked for us.

Agree with blackcob there is a compromise. You either put the pup in a crate and have it in your bedroom so it has the reassurance of human company but can't get in the bed (remember pup has just left mum and litter and in the wild would be very vulnerable alone at that age). Or you put the pup in a crate downstairs and sleep nearby (so possibly in the living room and you on the sofa). Pup then gets the reassurance of people nearby and you and your neighbour get a good night's sleep. Then when pup is settled in that routine you can gradually move the crate until it is in your desired overnight location. We did this with our first pup (with me sleeping downstairs with her) and it took about a week to get her settled enough to sleep in the kitchen on her own.

Blackcob's + TGM's replies is closest to what I've done when I've had puppies. But I use puppy pens instead of crates, and at the start I have news papers in one end of the pen.

Whatever you choose to do, you could for example also try buying an Adaptil diffuser.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Btw she’s beautiful .
I would just take her to bed but them I am hopeless

How on earth do you sleep with multiple Labradors on the bed? On the rare occasions when ours get upstairs they like to play trampolines! And the Rotters have been worse, they don't even bother to explore first.

 

[SOS]

Whatever you choose to do, you could for example also try buying an Adaptil diffuser.

I already have one downstairs in the lounge but granted not in the room her crate is in... so could move it to in there. I also use pet remedy as had good results in the past/at work with it. She responds well to it in other circumstances, relaxes.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Just to add I live in a small bungalow so me in bed and pup in hall would be equivalent to pup in room/sleeping on sofa for most people lol.

 

[blackcob]

Yes I have read about this process and last night she did settle when I came down at 6am and went to sleep on the sofa. Does the transition normally go quite smoothly? I imagined it would take several weeks...

I think mine spent maybe a week on the landing outside the bedroom, then a few nights here and there in the kitchen (with two other dogs) and is now in bed where he likes to be the big spoon. ? It was a surprisingly painless process, he housetrained quickly and as an adult I can bung him anywhere. Before anyone says it I've no doubt the next one will be a contradictory pain in the backside to make up for it!

 

[Littlewills]

Whippets like to be with people and like to sleep with you. Mine are crate trained happily but I did it in the day time and then they sleep with me over night. I know some people do manage to get them to sleep downstairs alone but its the minority. As a breed they want to be with people and you may well find you are setting yourself up for separation anxiety with the puppy, esp as she is becoming increasingly distressed. It might be worth asking on one of the whippet groups on facebook, to get some whippet specific advice

 

[Red-1]

I use a crate, they have a feed just as they go to bed, after a toilet break. I go back to them early morning, so they are left 10/11pm until 5am.

If one has made a fuss I have slept downstairs, but not talking to them particularly. I do put a blanket over the cage so they can feel safe.

I must have been lucky as we haven't had much fuss over the pups we have had.

 

[TGM]

No actually. Would you fully cover or just partially?

Thanks for all your replies so far. I really appreciate some more experiences. It seems I need to cut out her scheduled break.

Here’s a picture of her. She is such a lovely little dog, this is just our (MY) one issue I am working on.
View attachment 58485

Presumably this is a whippet puppy? Very beautiful! But as a whippet owner I can confirm
they do like company and warmth! So whilst you can wean her off the night time company gradually, you do need to make sure her overnight quarters are extremely comfy and warm. With ours we used a folded double duvet in the crate, and at this time of year an small oil-filled radiator next to it. Whippets are a pain in the arse when they get cold, in my experience! We didn't do a scheduled toilet break with ours overnight - she has always had a very strong bladder. First night we put her to bed at midnight and my husband let her out at 5.45pm (which is when he normally gets up). But by a week she was going 10pm to 5.45pm easily. I know people say (particularly with whippets) to take them into your bed as puppies, but if you ever want to go away it can create problems if they have never learnt to settle to sleep on their own. I know several people who have problems getting holiday cover for their dogs because they are used to sleeping in bedrooms or on/in the beds.

 

[Moobli]

Blackcob’s reply is closest to what I do too. My pups sleep either in a soft crate or dog bed by the side of my bed from day one. Never have a problem with them settling and I’m a light sleeper, so any movement and fidgeting means I’m awake to take pup out to the loo.
If you really don’t fancy having pup in the bedroom then I would sleep next to the crate/bed on the sofa or camp bed. I hate the thought of leaving a pup to cry itself to sleep, a bit like babies, it just goes against my natural instincts. Small pups have left the security and company of mum and siblings and everything they know. Imo it’s the new owner’s job to take over the mantle and do whatever is required to settle the pup in to his new home with as little upset as possible. Some pups need more in the way of comfort than others.
Beautiful pup btw.

 

[planete]

My Border Terrier slept in my bed as a pup, my lurcher in a crate in the bedroom, the foster pups in a crate with the adult dogs around. I try not to let a pup cry in a crate. All my dogs have transitioned easily to sleeping in a different room from us and can be left for hours, even in strange places. I am fearful stressed puppies may become neurotic adults. I have seen the result of stress in some foster pups and it is something i am keen to avoid.

 

[Goldenstar]

How on earth do you sleep with multiple Labradors on the bed? On the rare occasions when ours get upstairs they like to play trampolines! And the Rotters have been worse, they don't even bother to explore first.

Only my dog sleeps on my bed .