Question for those that know about the racing industry.

daveismycat

daveismycat

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I am completely ignorant about the racing industry but having bought a TB in the Autumn I started to do a bit of research.

She was bred in Ireland out of Anshan, and sold as a yearling before being sold as a three year old and bought over to the UK. From her Weatherby's passport I gather she was at a big racing yard in North Yorkshire until this summer (she's now 6 years old). She has a non-racing agreement in her passport. She has no official name in her passport and she never raced.

I tried emailing the racing yard but got a bit of a vague reply that made me question if they even knew which horse I was asking about.

My big question is, why would a big racing yard hold onto a mare until she was six years old and not have raced her?? She seems such a sweet, unflappable, kind horse that I accept she was probably too slow to race, but I would've expected her to have been tried at least?

Thanks in advance :)
 
What racing yard, pm if prefer, I had a similar problem getting information out of a north yorkshire racing yard turned out the mare had problems that is believed to have steamed for her racing career (though this isn't fact but opinion of professionals) Curious to know if its the same yard.
 
There could be lots of reasons for her to be untried racing, injury in training being the obvious one and would explain the non racing agreement, owners not paying, trainer bought her to sell but found no interest or that she really was so slow he could not convince anyone to part with their cash.
I had a mare in some years ago that was trained for 2 seasons but never raced due to an accident on the walker.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I'm really hoping it's not due to an injury, particularly one that might cause an issue down the line. I only want her for riding club/low level affiliated, but I'd like her around for a long time. I didn't get her vetted (low purchase price, and also I should know what I'm looking for ;) ), she is sound with clean legs (Or at least she didn't have :rolleyes: ), and until I got her, she had nothing in the medication section of her passport.

Isn't it common for ex-racehorses to have a 'non racing agreement'?? I assumed they would all have them to avoid a trainer letting them go cheap or free to a non-racing home, only for them to reappear on the racing circuit at a later date. I seriously know nothing!!
 
What's her dam line? Could have been numerous reasons why she was sold with a non racing agreement and to be honest they are not worth the paper they're written on anyway
 
Generally it's to avoid the embarrassment of a big money failure going to a new owner being sold on and then being successful.
The fact that she hasn't been given an official name would maybe suggest she was bought as a 'store' horse for a trainer/agent to sell on at which point the new owner could register her name. In the current climate it's not really surprising that lots of horses wouldn't sell.
Re getting information out of the yard: Good luck with that! Yorkshiremen and information/assistance are not exactly renowned qualities!
 
Baggybreeches said:
Generally it's to avoid the embarrassment of a big money failure going to a new owner being sold on and then being successful.
The fact that she hasn't been given an official name would maybe suggest she was bought as a 'store' horse for a trainer/agent to sell on at which point the new owner could register her name. In the current climate it's not really surprising that lots of horses wouldn't sell.
Re getting information out of the yard: Good luck with that! Yorkshiremen and information/assistance are not exactly renowned qualities!
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Thanks Baggybreeches. I have no idea how the industry works, but the prospect of her being a 'store' horse is the best scenario I think. It's such a shame that lovely, kind, talented, well-bred horses like her are potentially going to waste.

Oh, and yes, contacting the trainer was not exactly helpful!! ;)
 
If it's one i'm thinking of I'm not suprised you're having trouble.

The one i know of used to train horses for a stud i worked at - was a nightmare finding out about our own horses!! :rolleyes:
 
Hmmmm looking at sales results is be surprised if she was a big money flop, breeding is not really sexy enough. Think I know the man who bought her as a 3yr old unless there is two of the same name. Chances are she was tried here, not good enough, went through a lesser sale like ascot monthly and bought by someone assuming they'd improve her on what was done here...rarely works that though!!!


Either way I'd suspect you have a nice mare, I've a real soft spot for Anshans, more as sport horses than racehorses. Not too familiar with the dam line but that's incidental when you don't want to race her. Is she chestnut??
 
@ Baggybreeches I know you were generalising...it just prompted me to look her up.

Love orange anshans!!!
 
amage said:
What's her dam line? Could have been numerous reasons why she was sold with a non racing agreement and to be honest they are not worth the paper they're written on anyway
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you are wrong there because if it is in a wetherbys passport they cannot register her to race again.
 
Only if marked specifically in the passport actual passport. If something just inserted it is not binding. And certainly even with passport marked there are horses sent back pointing!
 
amage said:
Only if marked specifically in the passport actual passport. If something just inserted it is not binding. And certainly even with passport marked there are horses sent back pointing!
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The OP did say it was in the passport!
The dam had bred winners of I think 10 races but interestingly most of the offspring were trained in kent so they obviously had some faith in the breeding.
 
Re the non racing agreement, if it is the proper BHA one then if she went to a trainer again or was entered for a race, then the BHA alert would kick in and the trainer be notified about the NRA. There is a list of horses for whom an NRA has been registered somewhere on the BHA website. I was reading it once!
 
That's quite interesting, just found the list. Mines on there! Point to pointing can be included or excluded from the racing agreement as far as I am aware. I don't think an entry can be accepted in a race if there's a non racing agreement stamped on the passport.
 
One if my previous mares passport came back with words along the lines of "this horse is not to be raced" in the passport. Think I signed a form at the trainers yard saying she was not to do any form of racing unless previous owners changed their minds
 
My wee mare was exactly the same. Kept, unraced till she was 6 before being sold on to retrain as an eventer. I asked the same question as you on an ex racing forum and got this reply.

'The owners will have kept her till she was 6 to see if she just needed time to mature and train on into a racehorse. You wouldn't really bother with anything much older than that if they hadn't raced as they clearly don't have what it takes. There are many reasons that your mare didn't raced from quite simply being too slow and uninterested in going fast in their work at home, injury, immaturity or just not showing any talent in the racing sphere.

As for broodmares. It is quite common for mares with good bloodlines to be used for breeding purposes only having never raced themselves. You could look at that 2 ways - either the bloodlines were too valuable to risk racing and fatally injuring on the track and thus hope the progeny will sell for plenty enough money. Or the owners were affraid the mare wouldn't live up to standard on the track for their bloodlines and thus reduce the value of their progeny. With unraced mares of good blood you never know which is the case because the proof isn't there in the black and white form of race stats'

My mare has a name though and also no mention of not racing on her passport. Interestingly her original owners were interested in buying her back as a broodmare, as apparently she has good bloodlines, when it was found she wasnt going to make it as an eventer.
 
My friend bought a horse unraced at 6. It was a Silver Patriarch, which are meant to be slow maturing, but never seemed fast enough on the gallops at home. It was also un-named as well. It is quite common for jumping horses not to race until they are 5 or 6.
 
dominobrown said:
My friend bought a horse unraced at 6. It was a Silver Patriarch, which are meant to be slow maturing, but never seemed fast enough on the gallops at home. It was also un-named as well. It is quite common for jumping horses not to race until they are 5 or 6.
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Ha! I know a lot of SPs, very few saw a racetrack :rolleyes:. Most are doing showing/eventing. One I rode in training even had the stupidity to run out in a bumper race, which is virtually impossible. Nice hack, but that's all he ever had going for him. I schooled him over fences once... never again! :eek:
 
showjumpingfilly said:
If it's one i'm thinking of I'm not suprised you're having trouble.
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There are a LOT of trainers in N Yorks - probably 80 or 90. Malton and Middleham are big training centres and there are a lot of yards in both areas, but quite a few scattered about as well.

OP - what BB said about Yorkshiremen (and women - we even let them train up here too :eek:) was probably right. They don't waste words. If your horse is un-named they may have called her something totally different to you, hence the vagueness.
 
Gamebird said:
Ha! I know a lot of SPs, very few saw a racetrack :rolleyes:. Most are doing showing/eventing. One I rode in training even had the stupidity to run out in a bumper race, which is virtually impossible. Nice hack, but that's all he ever had going for him. I schooled him over fences once... never again! :eek:
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He was ok over a jump and quite a nice hack, just not very quick about it :D
 
The yard I ride out for sometimes bought an unbroken 4 yo out of a SP mare, it quickly became apparent it was the slowest horse I have ever sat on! Shame he looked the part. He hunted quietly a few times and sold easily as a riding horse.
 
We have a SP baby, who is very smart but wasn't very into her racing (I don't think he saw the point, she's a bit bright). Luckily, she is quite into her jumping and dressage so has been rerouted to eventing!
 
Gamebird said:
Ha! I know a lot of SPs, very few saw a racetrack :rolleyes:. Most are doing showing/eventing. One I rode in training even had the stupidity to run out in a bumper race, which is virtually impossible. Nice hack, but that's all he ever had going for him. I schooled him over fences once... never again! :eek:
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We have had a few SP's in the yard. One was a vile, evil, useless little madam. One was a thoroughly lovely chap, won 2 races but really was no great shakes -he is now show jumping. The 3rd is would have been a decent horse if he didn't have such fragile legs - a trait they all seemed to share. And the final one - Silver By Nature - twice winner of the Haydock National Trial by 12l. Got round Aintree, will probably go for the basic Nationals again.

The 3 geldings were all thoroughly lovely chaps. One was just a lazy toad -SBN's full brother and you couldn't have got 2 more dissimilar horses in every respect. SBN and Ranger both try their hearts out for you and give you everything each and every time of asking.
 
Some jumping horses dont run until 4/5/6..... it might not have been ready as a youngster so has been left to mature due to its good breeding By Anshan, as alot of Anshan horses mature later.

But then maybe it hasnt shown the speed to race or been cut out to be a racehorse.....

There is alsorts of reasons not to let it race and be stamped to say that....

it might be that the old owner might have tried to have it trained and then seeing as it hasnt made a racehorse the owner might not want someone else to try

or

its bled at home

or

Injury underlying that wouldnt make it a racehorse but wouldnt stop it being a 'normal' horse

or alsorts of other reasons

Good luck with it ........
 
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