question for those who NEVER smack their horses

I dont smack mine but he does get squared up. He came with a rearing habit and is normally very good now but the other day he was feeling rather well and reared full height at me when I asked him to stand. He got chased backwards from the rear very sharpish about 20 meters. Didnt do it again and I expect that to be enough of a reminder for him to remember his manners again!
 
In general my boy is well mannered. A push on his chest with a couple of fingers will back him up. And 'ah-ah-ah' is used when he's being cheeky. And he responds to this. However he is quite mouthy- which is fine, but if he ever tries to take a nibble he gets a slap. It happens very rarely nowadays. I will openly admit that I think the 'slap' has been effective in stopping him taking a nibble.
 
when i get any horse I do the 3 chance approach
1. ask gently
2. ask very firmly
3. go ballistic and get what the reaction you wanted

with all of the them they get the gist fairly fast and turn into polite well mannered horses. you see too many people pussy footing around horses and allowing their behaviour to get worse. set the rules out at the start and it solves loads of issues down the line
 
Just saying no in a very firm tone seems to be enough for mine, although to be honest Ive only ever had one horse who was ever a challenge! All my others are pretty darn well behaved so Ive always been lucky. I dont buy grumpy horses in the first place!
 
paddi22 said:
when i get any horse I do the 3 chance approach
1. ask gently
2. ask very firmly
3. go ballistic and get what the reaction you wanted

with all of the them they get the gist fairly fast and turn into polite well mannered horses. you see too many people pussy footing about and allowing their behaviour to get worse. set the rules out and it solves loads of issues down the line
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You could be me! I'm not going to ask 6 times for something they know how to do and are just being stubborn about.

And ditto 'take the bite' comment. WTF?! The reason the others horses on you're yard keep biting after a smack is that they've obviously not had the follow up training to go with it. Just a quick smack is pointless. And useless too unless it's put the fear of god into them.

I rarely need to smack my horses but have and will. Being able to push them out with body laungues etc is far more effective but they move away because they know I can and WILL follow up my threat with a smack if they don't listen. It's like a dominant mare putting their eas back, tail swishing and snapping at an annoying youngster. The youngster will pretty quickly just learn to ignore the snapping if there's no occasional follow up bite.

AA, I've done the same as you once before and it was extremely effective. Until that point the stroppy, thick skinned brat had never had a human truely 'bite' her before. She saw being told off as an annoyance and even a hard slap just made her cross. She pushed it too far one day and got an absolute leathering ( lead rope rather than blue pipe) and chased round the small paddock and was absolutely shocked that a human was something to take heed of. It was the first time anyone had ever driven her away aggressively and the amount of 'pressure' (big scary loud body language and a couple of hard smacks from a leadrope) needed was frightening. After that she was an angel to handle and responded to an 'Aha!' and an occasional smack because she was now aware that there were consequences for not responding to the lower pressures. Obviously not suitable for many horses but ALL horses should be able to drive off if required. They're dangerous if you can't.
 
Kallibear said:
And ditto 'take the bite' comment. WTF?! The reason the others horses on you're yard keep biting after a smack is that they've obviously not had the follow up training to go with it. Just a quick smack is pointless. And useless too unless it's put the fear of god into them.
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I didn't actually expect that to be so controversial :) otherwise I agree wholeheartedly with this, a quick smack is pointless unless you back it up with discipline and expecting good manners. I just found smacking or not smacking isn't what is making the difference, it's in how you handle the horse in general, so I don't bother with smacking. Likewise I don't feel there's much point in gratifying the horse by letting it see me flinch away, or by lashing out at it, but I'm aware that's subjective.
 
fattylumpkin said:
I didn't actually expect that to be so controversial :) otherwise I agree wholeheartedly with this, a quick smack is pointless unless you back it up with discipline and expecting good manners. I just found smacking or not smacking isn't what is making the difference, it's in how you handle the horse in general, so I don't bother with smacking. Likewise I don't feel there's much point in gratifying the horse by letting it see me flinch away, or by lashing out at it, but I'm aware that's subjective.
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I think it is just how anyone could choose to be bitten by something that can exert heaven knows how much PSI with its teeth! Which by consciously choosing to take you were choosing as an option! You must have an incredible pain threshold.
 
Just like children, whether to smack depends not on what they've done, but why they've done it.

A smack is counter-productive with most youngsters (don't understand) or nervous nellies (fear reaction), but if you're being challenged by a horse who thinks they can bite or kick you to get dominance, surely the right thing to do is to make like the lead mare and kick them very hard!
 
IThe grown up appy came with excellent manners, so has rarely needed much more than a growl, she has had the odd slap on the shoulder to remind her to stand up as she gets a bit fidgety. The three year old appy has had a slap for rubbing on me, after three progressivly stronger suggestions that it wasn'tacceptable. IMO dogs children and horses are all happier and healthier if they have clear and consistant boundaries.
 
First they get stared out with vocal if say the youngsters get bolshy. I'll also square up to some and use arm gestures and if they do go to nip they will get an elbow.
I like to keep my hands very much as a reward 'device' and the elbow is used to reprimand.

I will say though all the horses behave on general very, very well the majority of them under 3.
 
fattylumpkin said:
I didn't actually expect that to be so controversial :) otherwise I agree wholeheartedly with this, a quick smack is pointless unless you back it up with discipline and expecting good manners. I just found smacking or not smacking isn't what is making the difference, it's in how you handle the horse in general, so I don't bother with smacking. Likewise I don't feel there's much point in gratifying the horse by letting it see me flinch away, or by lashing out at it, but I'm aware that's subjective.
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Your absolutely right that it's the general handling that makes the horse. It's why someone who's good at training horses so rarely needs to smack their horses. But there are times when just a gentle reprimand isn't enough and the horse thinks 'is that it?!?' and takes little heed of your reprimand. Classic case is a greedy little &*$# of a pony who's been allowed to snatch at tasty grass. The thick-skinned ones quickly learn that their mouthful of goodness is totally worth any amount of 'Aha! NO!'s!. At some point you need to up the stakes.

As for 'gratifying' the horse with a reaction. They've now learnt that they can bite humans with no nasty repercussions. That's not something I'd EVER want my horse to learn. I want them to learn that if they ever try to bite me (or kick) with aggression, I might just kill them (or so they think).
 
Wow some of these posts make me cringe. Im not a pussy footer im not a bunny hugger and i expected manners from baby and big lad. But i never had to smack. big lad always wanted to rub on you. so rude but he learnt by pushing head away i didnt like it. he had other bad habits that in time by being consistent he learnt was wrong(barging being one). I set the ground rules but at end of day horses are living thinking creatures not machines and change in manners takes time. and yes in 44 years ive been kicked bitten dragged blah blah but i had a good guru many years ago who made me think :)
 
Cortez said:
I can't remember the last time I had to wallop one of mine, but it's always in the toolbox..........And I have seriously abused/rescue horses in my collection.
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This completely. I can't remember the last time I smacked a horse, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so and I had teeth or feet aimed directly at me, and it wouldn't be a gentle smack either ...

Really the only time that sticks in my head is going on 7/8 years ago now, when I had a rude bolshy 2 year old that decided mowing me down when leading in from the field was fair game. He succeeded once, was severly b@llocked the second time, and there wasn't a third attempt. Good job really as he now stands 17hh.
 
when I first got my boy I tried to just be firm with him! but he does get a slap on the neck when necessary now! the farrier lightly slapped him on the rug once and he didn't like the noise so stopped being an idiot immediately so now I will tell him off!

however once he tried to bite me, natural reaction was to slap him but ended on the month! he then reared up and struck out and slapped me in the face with his hoof!! so depends on the situation!
 
kerrieberry2 said:
when I first got my boy I tried to just be firm with him! but he does get a slap on the neck when necessary now! the farrier lightly slapped him on the rug once and he didn't like the noise so stopped being an idiot immediately so now I will tell him off!

however once he tried to bite me, natural reaction was to slap him but ended on the month! he then reared up and struck out and slapped me in the face with his hoof!! so depends on the situation!
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If anything struck out at me it would be seriously sorry, to this day! There is NO EXCUSE for a a horse being aggressive to the handler; none.
 
I was in too much shock to do anything about it! but don't worry we have sorted out that issue now!! I did get to the stage of being scared of him! but have done a lot of work and he is a sweet heart now!

have moved him to a different yard away from a hormonal mare and its like I have a different horse!!!
 
kerrieberry2 said:
when I first got my boy I tried to just be firm with him! but he does get a slap on the neck when necessary now! the farrier lightly slapped him on the rug once and he didn't like the noise so stopped being an idiot immediately so now I will tell him off!

however once he tried to bite me, natural reaction was to slap him but ended on the month! he then reared up and struck out and slapped me in the face with his hoof!! so depends on the situation!
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I was watching an amazing trainer, Phillip Nye, working with a young horse. The horse went to swing his head over Phil, who raised his hand to block it. (That's what good trainers do I suppose, anticipate rather than punish). The result was that his hand met the side of the young horse's head, the young horse half reared and boxed him to the ground. Phil being Phil bounced up easily and carried on as if nothing had happened.
Afterwards there was some talk from people about the horse being nasty, aggressive, and having a certain "look" in his eye. When Phil got to hear about this he was quite amazed. He reminded people that young male horses play by rearing and boxing with each other. He explained that he unthinkingly invited the horse to play when he half turned and blocked the head swinging. All I'm saying is that sometimes when horses piss us off they aren't being aggressive, bolshy or disrespectful - they are just horses being horses.
Horse that is a bit energised at a show and hits it's owner with it's head by swinging it around above them isn't often going to be being aggressive. They are just looking about and the person was in the wrong place. We all know that horses tend to forget we re there when they are a bit worried. It's up to us to deal with that. The person went wrong a while before, by maybe standing too close, or not teaching their horse to give them a bit of room. Personally I think that's why good trainers like Fburton find less and less reasons to smack and get directly physical, they deal with some simple basics that stick with the horses when they aren't quite "with it".
 
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I don't like the slapping in the face for nipping/invading personal space. I don't think it would take much to make Barry headshy.

The other day he was investigating me for treats (I didn't give him them often anyway and am going to stop, he just fixates on them) and nipped me on the hip. All I did was say "oi" in a slightly louder than normal voice and he leapt and looked very guilty.

With my old ponies if I ever raised my voice, they knew they were in trouble!

I don't fit into your "never" category as I will slap neck/side if needed, but I NEVER slap them in the face. I hate seeing it.
 
My mare is the sweetest girl ever, until being groomed or doing her girth up. Then she is very grumpy! She always tries to nip me and I say a firm NO which works for 6 or so months but gradually it gets worse and then I get bitten! Never hard, but it stills derserve a slap! And then we start again! I certainly don't condone a 'good pasting' but a noisy slap on her neck with no pain seems to do the trick!
 
I've always said that I don't do 'spoilt horses, dogs or children' and now I have all three I really hope I've lived up to that!

So I smack when require, mostly a gentle tap on the shoulder does the trick when spooking and messing about and in the stable I ask once and tell the second time, the third ask is a smack, not hard but enough to make them realise I require action from them.

I do find sweeping their front legs with the broom a very effective way of getting them to move back when you are entering their stable and they refuse to move. Not sure if that counts as smacking or not?
 
Personally I prefer to act before it gets to biting or kicking.....horses give out warning signals and they need to be seen and the human take action before it escalates.....body language (make yourself big) and an assertive 'back now' works very well....but then I haven't had to deal with other peoples mistakes!!
 
This is really interesting, I was genuinely interested in people's approaches to this, and actually now feel ok about my firm slap from time to time in the teeth/feet/ barging situation. Certainly he has only tried it on once or twice with me. Will now try the voice route leaving the slap in reserve !
 
My father, who worked in a stud then flat racing for most of his life said you needed to be " firm but fair" with horses.
All his horses were well behaved and safe to be around which could not be said for some of the others on the yard. He said how certain lads' horses would always be a problem and he wondered how they treated their children!
He was a tiny man but seemed in total control and very rarely had to raise a growl.
 
My ex took on a very bolshy brood mare at 18 years old as his first horse. She can pull brilliant dragon faces! It's a bit out of my comfort zone, not sure if it's the way to go, but when she acted up and threatened biting he took her by the withers with his own actual teeth and growled! They had the best relationship ever last I knew! That mare adores him!
 
I think 99.9% of problems are due to the handler lacking experience and the instinct to immediately tell what the horse is about to do,as opposed to handling the problem after it has happend. The time difference may be almost un noticable to onlookers ,yet it is crucial. The moment when you see that the horse has transfered his attention elsewhere when you are leading him, handled immediately it is relatively easy to get them back ,but leave it a moment too long and you suddenly have a battle.Do this too many times and suddenly you have a problem horse.
 
I think it depends how you define a smack - most of the time a smack is ineffective and a waste of time, but yes I wil block a horse movement (swinging head/running into me) and that may mean they run into my arm or a stick or whatever. They learn quick smart not to run over me or into me.
 
This thread has just prompted me too up the anti with mine, he's starting to forget that a few "ah ah"s as a warning means if he pushes it something bigger is coming. Need to nip that in the bud
 
Mike007 said:
I think 99.9% of problems are due to the handler lacking experience and the instinct to immediately tell what the horse is about to do,as opposed to handling the problem after it has happend. The time difference may be almost un noticable to onlookers ,yet it is crucial. The moment when you see that the horse has transfered his attention elsewhere when you are leading him, handled immediately it is relatively easy to get them back ,but leave it a moment too long and you suddenly have a battle.Do this too many times and suddenly you have a problem horse.
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So true and the best post yet. It all depends on the correct upbringing from very young. The oldest horse I have ever bought was 10, he came from a pro yard and had been a stallion. His manners on the ground and under tack were and remain superb. He was too subdued when I first had him, showing no interest in me at all, but of course, as a stallion he would not have been encouraged to be over friendly.

He would stand in each corner of his very large box as I mucked out around him, moving without being asked as I approached him. Today 10 years on, he is the same but much more friendly and I do have to say 'excuse me' and 'go in the corner please'. He always takes several steps back as anyone approaches his door and would never dream of attempting to go through the door before me. Needless to say, after 10 years off the pro yard I have spoilt him in some ways. He inspects pockets for treats and, before he retired, would stop in a schooling lesson for a polo when he judged his half pass or whatever had been excellent. Those with intelligent horses be warned...the comment of 'good boy, do you want a polo' is not always a good idea !

His manners and gentleness (he is 17.2) have inspired me to make even more effort to raise my 2 year olds in a fair and firm manner in the hope they turn out to be easy and mannerly.
 
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