question for vets please or anyone else who may know. (praziquantal)

[Gamebird]

Should I also assume then that, while there is no other prazinquantal product available, its more profitable for BOVA to just continue under this system, rather than go down the route of paying to licence their product?

I think you're being a little cynical about their morivations. BOVA aren't a drug company, they're a compounder/specials producer. So they won't be licencing it because that's just not something that they do. They produce formulations of unlicensed generic drugs that otherwise would be completely unobtainable. For example they produce the omeprazole injection for use for EGUS, ertugliflozin for EMS and various niche antibiotics specifically for things like Rhodococcus in foals. Most of these things are absolutely invaluable, but would be completely uneconomic to license. So they are produced as 'specials'.

 

[criso]

The problem i have is a horse who consistently tests positive for tapes (vets scratch their heads, 3 different yards with different approaches).

He's always clear on a wormcount so only needs encysted and 6 monthly tape.

I remember one place i was at, a person followed the chart on the Zoetis site which had 3 month worming, Pramox twice a year and Equest in between. No place for Equitape in their recommended approach even though it was one of their products.

 

[Borderreiver]

Equitape is such a miss from the worming arsenal isn’t it? Sadly I do think it’s all down to money. I am sure zoetis would much rather we bought an expensive Pramox especially as many folk are under the illusion that this is specifically targeted at tapeworms. Of course it is a dual product. A praz only could easily be licensed but it would cost a fortune to do so. My view is that it was discontinued as not enough profit in it. Thank goodness Bova stepped into the breach albeit through the vets.

 

[Fruitcake]

I think you're being a little cynical about their morivations. BOVA aren't a drug company, they're a compounder/specials producer. So they won't be licencing it because that's just not something that they do. They produce formulations of unlicensed generic drugs that otherwise would be completely unobtainable. For example they produce the omeprazole injection for use for EGUS, ertugliflozin for EMS and various niche antibiotics specifically for things like Rhodococcus in foals. Most of these things are absolutely invaluable, but would be completely uneconomic to license. So they are produced as 'specials'.

I'm not being cynical at all. There was no judgement in my post - simply questions to clarify the situation and help me to understand the reasons behind the changes in the availability of the drug.

 

[Gamebird]

I remember one place i was at, a person followed the chart on the Zoetis site which had 3 month worming, Pramox twice a year and Equest in between. No place for Equitape in their recommended approach even though it was one of their products.

???
And that is why we're in the mess we're in. Moxidectin being used several times a year is indefensible. We shouldn't really be using it at all, apart from in diagnosed cyathostome cases.

 

[criso]

Just read info on special formulations on BOVA's website.
So am I correct that as there is now no licenced prazinquantal-only product (after the discontinuation of Equitape), vets are able to prescribe BOVA's (unlicensed?) product under the cascade? Should I also assume then that, while there is no other prazinquantal product available, its more profitable for BOVA to just continue under this system, rather than go down the route of paying to licence their product?

I wouldn't necessarily blame bova who are just filling a gap after the licensed product was withdrawn. Maybe there should be some mechanism where if a company no longer wants to use a licence, it should be possible to transfer to another producer to manufacturer to the exact specs.

I also wonder about a system where we have many invermectin/Praziquantel combined products licensed but no Praziquantel alone.

 

[criso]

???
And that is why we're in the mess we're in. Moxidectin being used several times a year is indefensible. We shouldn't really be using it at all, apart from in diagnosed cyathostome cases.

I remember there was a little picture on their adverts, a circle with the seasons and a wormer for each one.

 

[Fruitcake]

I wouldn't necessarily blame bova who are just filling a gap after the licensed product was withdrawn. Maybe there should be some mechanism where if a company no longer wants to use a licence, it should be possible to transfer to another producer to manufacturer to the exact specs.

I also wonder about a system where we have many invermectin/Praziquantel combined products licensed but no Praziquantel alone.

Yes. I just think it's a shame that the licenced product was discontinued - I assume down to it not being cost-effective or profitable, which is understandable as drug companies are businesses after all. If that's the case, it's probably unlikely that another manufacturer would want to take it on.
It's a shame as the current situation just seems to encourage unnecessary wormer use.

 

[HashRouge]

???
And that is why we're in the mess we're in. Moxidectin being used several times a year is indefensible. We shouldn't really be using it at all, apart from in diagnosed cyathostome cases.

I've just been reading on the Westgate website that they're now recommending blood tests for encysted redworm rather than just worming with moxidectin. I assume this is fairly new, as I do try to keep up to date with what Westgate is advising. The only annoying this is I'm moving yard in December and the new YO wants them wormed once they arrive, so I think I will have to worm with Equest regardless this year. I'm really hoping she'll then let me do my worm counting/ saliva tests etc and next year hopefully I can do the blood test instead. Doubly annoying as they're both due their vaccinations in December so the test would tie in quite nicely with that visit. You never know, I might get the whole yard converted! My current YO never did worm counts before I arrived and was already doing them with my two, and now she does. She also poo picks, which she didn't until I arrived and was doing my paddock.

 

[criso]

The blood test is fairly new and given that it will require call out and taking blood by vets, I suspect it's some way off being common.

After all there was a blood test for tapeworm but how many of us did it before the saliva test made it easy and affordable.

 

[Fruitcake]

The blood test is fairly new and given that it will require call out and taking blood by vets, I suspect it's some way off being common.

After all there was a blood test for tapeworm but how many of us did it before the saliva test made it easy and affordable.

I hadn't realised the blood test was now in use. I wonder if it's worth considering this year. I might give my vets a call to see. Do you know if it's readily available at all vets?

 

[HashRouge]

The blood test is fairly new and given that it will require call out and taking blood by vets, I suspect it's some way off being common.

After all there was a blood test for tapeworm but how many of us did it before the saliva test made it easy and affordable.

Yes that's true. I do think vets need to be a bit more pro-active in talking to their clients about worm management too. I'm sure some do, but a lot don't and seem to still be recommending old fashioned worming schedules.

 

[criso]

I hadn't realised the blood test was now in use. I wonder if it's worth considering this year. I might give my vets a call to see. Do you know if it's readily available at all vets?

I don't know how widespread it is? It's done by Austin Davis who do Equisal so I assume any vet could send samples.

https://www.austindavis.co.uk/small-redworm-blood-test.

https://www.westgatelabs.co.uk/news...or-small-redworm-to-launch-in-september-2019/

 

[criso]

Yes that's true. I do think vets need to be a bit more pro-active in talking to their clients about worm management too. I'm sure some do, but a lot don't and seem to still be recommending old fashioned worming schedules.

Yes, my vet was very sceptical about Equisal at first but now admits that the data on it looks convincing.

However a call out is £50 if I couldn't share, then a fee for taking the blood and the lab fees. I'm not going to have any change out of £100.

 

[HashRouge]

Yes, my vet was very sceptical about Equisal at first but now admits that the data on it looks convincing.

However a call out is £50 if I couldn't share, then a fee for taking the blood and the lab fees. I'm not going to have any change out of £100.

My vet does cheap zone days, where callout is a tenner, which does really help matters (especially as I've got two).

 

[paddy555]

Yes that's true. I do think vets need to be a bit more pro-active in talking to their clients about worm management too. I'm sure some do, but a lot don't and seem to still be recommending old fashioned worming schedules.

that made me laugh. In around 2006 or so I told my vet that I would no longer be worming as such I would be egg counting. She looked at me, politely as we did get on, and I could see from her expression that what she really wanted to say was "on your head be it"

About 6/7 years later she arrived and told me I must now start worm counting rather than just worming. I just smiled.

 

[criso]

My vet does cheap zone days, where callout is a tenner, which does really help matters (especially as I've got two).

Ours is a flat fee for all days, all locations but you can share so if the whole yard was tested the call out would tiny However there's still the fee for taking blood and sending it plus whatever Austin Davis charge l

 

[Glitter's fun]

Not read all the posts yet so apologies if this has already been linked to.

If you go on NOAH you can search for an active ingredient & see all the licensed products with that in ...

Datasheets (noahcompendium.co.uk)