Questions about the BARF diet

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FingersCrossed

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Not for me, for a friend :rolleyes:
Don't know how i always get roped in to asking other peoples questions :D

My friend has a GSD puppy, and wants to feed it raw...
She's been researching it and found all the info, but she was wondering if anyone could help make a plan of what food she should give.. .


I have no idea if this table will show properly, but its an example feed diet, but it doesnt specify what feeds - if that makes sense...

for example, what "leafy green vegetable" etc...

Week 1 Week 2 Week 3
Morning Evening Morning Evening Morning Evening
Monday Starve* Milk Starve* Milk Starve* Starchy
Tuesday Green Leafy Vegetable Chicken Bones Green Leafy Vegetable Chicken Bones Green Leafy Vegetable Chicken Bones
Wednesday Grain and Legumes Chicken Bones Starchy Chicken Bones Chicken Bones Chicken Bones
Thursday Other Bones Chicken Bones Other Bones Chicken Bones Other Bones Chicken Bones
Friday Chicken Bones Chicken Bones Offal and meat Chicken Bones Offal and meat Chicken Bones
Saturday Other Bones Chicken Bones Other Bones Chicken Bones Chicken Bones Chicken Bones
Sunday Other Bones Chicken Bones Other Bones Chicken Bones Other Bones Chicken Bones


she doesnt have the pup yet, its only 4weeks, but she wants to get organised.

any help/advice greatly appreciated :)

thankyou :)
 
So she got one then? Tell her to sign up here, I'm nosy :p
Are you suuure it's not yours? :p

It's just what I can get my hands on at the mo, my 4mo puppy at the mo is getting a chicken wing and a carrot first thing, then a packet full of chicken pieces (from my hand during short training session), then a kong full of frozen tripe, then a pig's ear, then a chicken wing, then another packet of chicken pieces (from my hand during short training session) then something like a tin of mackerel in oil and an egg.

I'm no expert, KarynK and Katielou are really helpful.

He's now on my bed eating my bank statement :p
 
I played it by ear after reading on many forums that there's no real way of doing it "wrong" ... Mostly mine gets chicken and lamb, as this is what I can get free/very cheap. She loves everything I give her, but sadly beef makes her a bit poorly (I think I've narrowed it down to beef anyway). She eats spinach, carrot, apple, banana and frozen peas ... but turns her nose up at other vegetables or throws them back up. She only eats blackberries and blueberries she's plucked off the bush herself. She likes egg but leaves the shell. She completely refuses offal other than tripe but pretends to eat it and then hides it somewhere in the garden or under the sofa.
 
CaveCanem said:
So she got one then? Tell her to sign up here, I'm nosy :p
Are you suuure it's not yours? :p

It's just what I can get my hands on at the mo, my 4mo puppy at the mo is getting a chicken wing and a carrot first thing, then a packet full of chicken pieces (from my hand during short training session), then a kong full of frozen tripe, then a pig's ear, then a chicken wing, then another packet of chicken pieces (from my hand during short training session) then something like a tin of mackerel in oil and an egg.

I'm no expert, KarynK and Katielou are really helpful.

He's now on my bed eating my bank statement :p
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She's put a deposit down just waiting to collect him :)

noooo,...i wish he was mine, he's gorgeous! I might dog-nap him if I get chance :D

thanks, will pass on the info and persuade her to sign up :rolleyes: don't know why she's being so shy :p

hahaa.. who needs bank statements anyway? :rolleyes: :p
 
MissTyc said:
I played it by ear after reading on many forums that there's no real way of doing it "wrong" ... Mostly mine gets chicken and lamb, as this is what I can get free/very cheap. She loves everything I give her, but sadly beef makes her a bit poorly (I think I've narrowed it down to beef anyway). She eats spinach, carrot, apple, banana and frozen peas ... but turns her nose up at other vegetables or throws them back up. She only eats blackberries and blueberries she's plucked off the bush herself. She likes egg but leaves the shell. She completely refuses offal other than tripe but pretends to eat it and then hides it somewhere in the garden or under the sofa.
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Ah, thats interesting. thanks :)
I know it might sound silly but I cant believe you feed all this raw :p I know it sounds stupid but Im soooo used to the idea of feeding kibble... its embarassing :o but I would definately feed raw if I got another dog, the benefits I've heard of are amazing! :)
 
FingersCrossed said:
Ah, thats interesting. thanks :)
I know it might sound silly but I cant believe you feed all this raw :p I know it sounds stupid but Im soooo used to the idea of feeding kibble... its embarassing :o but I would definately feed raw if I got another dog, the benefits I've heard of are amazing! :)
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It took me a while. We're a vegetarian household, so kibble was like a security blanket to me. Then my dog got pancreatitis and everything changed. Thanks to a progressive and wonderful vet, we started our BARF journey only 8 weeks ago! So far so good.
 
FC, our parents couldn't believe that dog food could come in a convenient, handy bag, all nice and dry with EVERYTHING :p a dog could need in it, after years of slopping out smelly meat, cutting their own tripe and scraping scraps off the plate or making extra portions at dinnertime.
They were doing the right thing all along, I reckon!

Look at their teeth, they weren't made to eat just biscuits :)
 
CC - I totally agree, now that I've heard about feeding raw it all makes sense, and kibble seems like the most ridiculous idea in the world but because in every day life kibble is seen as the "norm" I wouldn't have even thought about feeding raw. I have to confess to thinking there was meat in tins, and biscuits...nothing else! :o now that is embarrassing! :p
Do you spend a lot feeding raw? I'm intrigued now :p
 
No, I get a tray of 12 tripe packets (each split into twos or threes) for about £10 then everything else from the bargain bin in Tesco :p

The big dog is still on kibble because of his specialness :p and it's about £33 a fortnight/every three weeks or so.
 
FingersCrossed said:
CC - I totally agree, now that I've heard about feeding raw it all makes sense, and kibble seems like the most ridiculous idea in the world but because in every day life kibble is seen as the "norm" I wouldn't have even thought about feeding raw. I have to confess to thinking there was meat in tins, and biscuits...nothing else! :o now that is embarrassing! :p
Do you spend a lot feeding raw? I'm intrigued now :p
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I spend about 10-15 pounds a month. I buy direct from the farm/factory as much as possible which keeps the price way down.

Mine get no veg at all. I feed prey model raw.

In my latest set of research i have found out just how important feeding liver is. My dogs hate it so i worked out how much they need to get the correct nutrients, Which is about 1 inch cube every other day, and i feed that cube like a pill.

They get fish 2-3 times a week in the winter and 1-2 times in the summer.

They are currently munching on a bowl of Emu and llama. I went in with 3 other raw feeding friends and we split the animals up between us.
 
I wouldn't say kibble is bad for dogs per se, plenty of dogs do well on it but a lot of people think raw is better/more natural, like I say, I try not to be too evangelical as I have one for whom a totally raw diet would be a disaster.
As with lots of things, it depends on the dog.

KL my friends cook up liver every day and then spend ages cutting it into tiny pieces for tracking :p

Oh and our local butchers have just started doing massive chicken legs for 25p each, result :D
 
FingersCrossed said:
Haha, I want a dog to feed now :p is kibble bad then for dogs? I live a sheltered life (as you can tell :p )
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This is just my opinion from research ect.

There is a lot of kibble that is terrible for dogs. Kibble that contains known carcinogens in dogs is not something i would ever feed so in those cases i think yes kibble is bad for dogs

Dogs are not made up to ear corn and grains in even small amounts let alone as the biggest ingredient in their diets.

However there are becoming more and more good kibble brands out there and they are not really as expensive as they look. For example kibble here in the US the cheap brand is kibble and bits and dog chow. Both say i should feed Abe 5-6 cups a day. The bag costs $15-20. The good dog foods (free of corn, wheat, soy and grains) costs $40-45 but says i should feed 2-2 1/2 cups a day.
 
Dog Food Company delivers south of Lincolnshire http://www.thedogfoodcompany.co.uk/products.html. My bill for 50 days will be about £60 for the pups. Cheque or cash on delivery, £5 delivery charge. They're on about 2% of their projected adult bodyweight. Between 2-3% is right, depending on their size/age.

Rawtogo delivers nation-wide in polystyrene boxes, based in Abergavenny, there's lovely, very helpful on the phone. http://rawtogo.co.uk/ProductsandPrices.aspx
Delivery prices vary, they use a courier. Their minces have the 10:10:80 ratio so very handy for novices.

Morrisons sells pigs trotters (my springers cope nicely with that size bone, I'd start a pup on chicken wings and help them, don't let it swallow whole!), cheap offal and lamb bones. Rule of thumb, if you can stick in a knife, the none is soft enough to be consumed without problems-pork rib and lamb breast are fabulous. I can't find cheap meat in other supermarkets, but a local African foodstore does cracking lumps of fish and sliced cow feet! Bargain bin meat is great. Tell your mate to buy a freezer: it's the way forward!

Landywoods are currently saying there's a meat shortage:rolleyes: but I think that's ridiculous: a butcher friend thinks that's tosh and there's nothing in the news.

Stick to the 10:10:80 bone offal meat rule with oily fish and whole raw eggs several times a week, can't go far wrong. Add or take away amounts if pup puts on too much weight. Introduce offal super slowly as it can upset tums. My adult dog gets offal in liver cake etc, won't eat it raw. I can't remember why but it's super important to have it in their diet.

Send her this website: http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/111437-raw-feeding-everything-you-need-know.html. More info than you can shake a stick at.

Some kibble is good-Orijen, Fish4dogs, Wainwrights Advanced Sensitive. Not enough people check the main ingredients and just buy what they've seen advertised. I'm ruddy horrified that products like Bakers and Pedigree are still stocked in eg Pets at Home. :(
 
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Personally I think several things about the diet you have put up. There is way to much bone in the menu and I would be feeding a young GSD three times a day. I would also not starve a pup for a meal.

I have fed raw for well over 50 years, way before it became the 'in' thing to do and my parents did the same (along with table scraps)
I have owned multiple dogs and none have ever had to have their anal glands cleared nor their teeth cleaned and all have lived good healthy vet free lives (apart from injuries!)

The bulk of my feeding (11 + dogs) is green tripe. I am lucky that I have an abattoir locally and collect every other week. I also get pigs heads and bones from there.

I will pick up road kill (deer), shoot rabbits and feed that to the dogs. The main expense is getting ox hearts from the butcher - from whom I get all sorts of meats that have been either frost burnt or are out of date. (I bought a big box of turkey legs from him last week for £3)

It costs me about £20 - £35 a month to feed the 11 dogs here, four medium (GSD being the biggest) and the rest terriers of various types and sizes.

I will add that I do have a strong stomach as cutting tripe is exceedingly smelly! Dogs love it.
 
I find this really interesting, and I don't even have a dog at the moment!

I think I'd definately feed raw, its not as if its more expensive, so why don't more people feed it?

From what I've read chicken is the most common, then lamb, then beef ? I've read your not supposed to feed pork too?

Sorry for all the questions, why is liver so important?
I'm going to be checking the prices of meat tomorrow now, though I am dog-less :p
 
Holy hell, Foxhunter, that's extremely cheap! if I run out of tripe, there's a local supplier that does 30kg for £10, but even that's not as good as yours! I'm moving to Dorset! How can I find and make contact with my nearest abattoir?
 
FingersCrossed said:
I find this really interesting, and I don't even have a dog at the moment!

I think I'd definately feed raw, its not as if its more expensive, so why don't more people feed it?

From what I've read chicken is the most common, then lamb, then beef ? I've read your not supposed to feed pork too?

Sorry for all the questions, why is liver so important?
I'm going to be checking the prices of meat tomorrow now, though I am dog-less :p
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Check the websites I put on. I'm going to search for an abattoir, even though I'm happy with my supplier. I'd like even more variety. Pork is fine, but should be frozen for 2 weeks before feeding for health reasons. (katielou will explain that and the liver, I can't remember why!)

People don't feed raw cos it's scary when you're always told not to feed eg chicken bones (safe raw, bad cooked). Raw is tricky at first, getting the ratio and sourcing it. It's easy to get supermarket crap.
 
Even if you don't feed raw, you can have raw days and dry days.

A lot of people don't like dealing with raw meat, (Foxhunter we used to take the green tripe, I am boking at the thought....the people my puppy came from had tripe, minced with bone, then minced again with fish, which is fantastic food but eye-wateringly disgusting to sniff) and even I have gone off chicken after weeks of cutting up chicken wings for my older dog for tracking training, you do need a lot of freezer space, it doesn't suit every dog, etc etc etc, a lot of people still are worried about bones splintering and getting stuck (very rare, especially with uncooked bones)

However a lot of it is down to advertising, plain and simple. Pet food companies are owned by huge multi-nationals with advertising budgets of world-conquering proportions, when you've had decades of being told that dry food is 'balanced' 'healthy' 'delicious' 'has everything your dog needs' (when it is, a lot of the time, either full of water, full of grain, or full of preservative with negligible meat content) but when you are force fed it, pardon the pun, it is a hard habit to break.
And don't get me started about dogs in fecking space suits advertising the canine equivalent of McDonalds...why do dogs need to eat food that is dyed ridiculous colours?!

Also, it's easy to go to Tesco, pick up your groceries and grab a bag of cheap dog food. It's harder to do research, order in special stuff, go to a different shop to pick up food for the dog.
I just pick up stuff from the bargain bin, as mentioned :p
 
Thanks for all your help, I'll pass on the info to my friend and also do a bit more research for myself :D from everything I've read so far, on various sites, raw definatley seems the way forward for healthy dogs! :)
 
FingersCrossed said:
I find this really interesting, and I don't even have a dog at the moment!

I think I'd definately feed raw, its not as if its more expensive, so why don't more people feed it?

From what I've read chicken is the most common, then lamb, then beef ? I've read your not supposed to feed pork too?

Sorry for all the questions, why is liver so important?
I'm going to be checking the prices of meat tomorrow now, though I am dog-less :p
Click to expand...

Liver just contains a concentrated amount of vitamins that dogs need. A, B, DHA, taurine. And in liver they are far more readily available to dogs than in supplement form.
 
FingersCrossed said:
Thanks for all your help, I'll pass on the info to my friend and also do a bit more research for myself :D from everything I've read so far, on various sites, raw definatley seems the way forward for healthy dogs! :)
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If you are really interested check out this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Give-Your-Dog-Bone-Commonsense/dp/0646160281

Its a great book. Although i don't feed BARF because i don't believe dogs are omnivores (try doing some research on that or BARF vs prey model) it is still a great book to learn from.
 
I suppose I do prey model. Bit annoyed with landywoods this month they could have told me re the lack of turkey wings, I would have added more tripe on and got more carcass from butcher. Anyway my dogs love it. The one thing I have noticed is they eat more grass. Even OH finds it ok now, he hated first. He was well impressed he got a load of salmon heads for nothing. Lol. Also we had small mess up with liver. I left some out to defrost, OH cut it up fed it, no idea who had what.....mine don't need it.cooked.
 
Toffee44 said:
I suppose I do prey model. Bit annoyed with landywoods this month they could have told me re the lack of turkey wings, I would have added more tripe on and got more carcass from
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Have they mentioned the meat shortage to you recently? On another forum, they reckoned they were told this by Landywoods. I keep hearing their communication is not amazing.
 
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