Questions to Ask When Looking at 3.5t Boxes

[Taliesan]

I'm going to look at some 3.5t boxes over the weekend and I was wondering if anybody had any advice on what I should be looking for in the vans and what sorts of questions to ask the sellers.

This is my very first purchase of a box so I feel rather in the dark about the whole thing!

So far I've asked the sellers about MOTs and advisories as well as the floor on the box. I was also wondering if there is one type of floor that is better than others?

Any advice and help with regards to box purchasing would be most appreciated.

 

[AFB]

I'm going to look at some 3.5t boxes over the weekend and I was wondering if anybody had any advice on what I should be looking for in the vans and what sorts of questions to ask the sellers.

This is my very first purchase of a box so I feel rather in the dark about the whole thing!

So far I've asked the sellers about MOTs and advisories as well as the floor on the box. I was also wondering if there is one type of floor that is better than others?

Any advice and help with regards to box purchasing would be most appreciated.

No help with Q's but you can access the entire MOT history online now so might be worth a look before heading off.

 

[Taliesan]

No help with Q's but you can access the entire MOT history online now so might be worth a look before heading off.

I've checked the government website and it tells me if the van has a current MOT, but no more. Being able to see the full history would be incredibly useful - do you know where I can access this and what information I would need?

 

[Spottyappy]

Assuming they are second hand, take a screwdriver and poke about floor to ensure it’s solid.
Also, don’t take sellers words for payload, you need a weight certificate from a weighbridge.
Floor is personal preference, but buffalo board or that type of thing is solid and safe if not started to rot out (hence the screwdriver to poke it). Aluminium planking is often considered good, but not everyone likes it, and any wood used under it or on it can still rot from the damp.
Drive it. I looked at lots of very nice boxes, but could not stand them when drive them! No use having a pretty box you don’t enjoy driving imho.
Once you have found one, get a horse knowledegable mechanic to check it over, it may cost a couple of hundred but could save you thousands in faults.

 

[AFB]

I've checked the government website and it tells me if the van has a current MOT, but no more. Being able to see the full history would be incredibly useful - do you know where I can access this and what information I would need?

This is the one - https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

 

[MyBoyChe]

Most of what you need to ask is standard to all sizes of box but with a 3.5 I would say the most important thing is payload. They can vary between .8t and 1.2t. It is extremely unlikely that, despite what the adverts say, you will find a 3.5t that can legally carry 2 ponies (unless they are shetties or have learnt how to drive the lorry themselves). Just remember that payload has to allow for the fuel, the driver, the horse and all its stuff, soon adds up!

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Apart from mechanical std checks, checking all lights etc work, spare wheel and changing equipt and service history:

Check floor, best is aluminium but not all have that. Budget up to 1k to replace if rotting at all (should be about 600 +/-)
Height of breast bar, is it safe for yours?
Emergency access?
Check all hinged doors, make sure catches work and are not worn or loose, are hinges and any air/gas struts working?
Any signs of leaking? From roof or Windows.
Check partition, is it secure at both ends? Do any closing fixings protube?
Weight cert, when was it done? (They are dated!) Would the owner mind you accompanying them to get a new one?

Edited to add, 1 x 500kg equine, can make approx 800kg by the time you have tack, hay, water, rider, all picnic and associated stuff on the box for a day out

 

[milliepops]

I've checked the government website and it tells me if the van has a current MOT, but no more. Being able to see the full history would be incredibly useful - do you know where I can access this and what information I would need?

did you look here?
https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

I can see back about 12 years on my box using this link.

Re payload - many sellers won't know this, but if you just google 'public weighbridges' and the county you are in you'll be able to find a list of the ones in the area - it's inexpensive to do, I paid £6 to weigh mine.

Personally I wouldn't use one without some kind of barrier between horse area and groom area but these can be retrofitted so not the end of the world, I paid a few hundred to add one to mine - but do factor it into payload.

I also bought one with a dodgy floor that I knew about, the van floor underneath was solid but the wood was probably the original floor and about 15 years old so had gone soft. my OH is very handy so replacing it was only about £200 incl new rubber mats so not the end of the world. Dunno what your budget is but just mentioning it in case you find your perfect box that just needs some tlc

 

[WelshD]

My honest advice to you is before you go asking anyone else questions is sit down and ask yourself a question

'will my excitement impair my judgement?'

when I bought my first 3.5t I did little more than squeal and throw money at the seller. this cost me dear and there are countless others out there who bought poorly, sometimes the excitement about having transport can make us loose all sense of proportion

If you are at all unsure about what you are doing find someone who knows at least a smidge about buying vans and take them along with you

 

[milliepops]

My honest advice to you is before you go asking anyone else questions is sit down and ask yourself a question

'will my excitement impair my judgement?'

when I bought my first 3.5t I did little more than squeal and throw money at the seller. this cost me dear and there are countless others out there who bought poorly, sometimes the excitement about having transport can make us loose all sense of proportion

If you are at all unsure about what you are doing find someone who knows at least a smidge about buying vans and take them along with you

^^ this is great advice my OH is a total killjoy in this respect but def stops me making gleeful but bad decisions

 

[Taliesan]

Assuming they are second hand, take a screwdriver and poke about floor to ensure it’s solid.
Also, don’t take sellers words for payload, you need a weight certificate from a weighbridge.
Floor is personal preference, but buffalo board or that type of thing is solid and safe if not started to rot out (hence the screwdriver to poke it). Aluminium planking is often considered good, but not everyone likes it, and any wood used under it or on it can still rot from the damp.
Drive it. I looked at lots of very nice boxes, but could not stand them when drive them! No use having a pretty box you don’t enjoy driving imho.
Once you have found one, get a horse knowledegable mechanic to check it over, it may cost a couple of hundred but could save you thousands in faults.

Yes, they are all second hand. Thank you for the advice about payload, I'll definitely ask the sellers if they have a weight certificate for the box.

The screwdriver is an excellent idea. I will definitely take one along to have a poke around with. I was planning on looking under the matting and then getting underneath the van itself to have a good look around.

I am definitely going to test drive all of them. I've only ever driven new-ish vehicles so driving an older van is definitely something I want to get a feel for.

This is the one - https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

Thank you! I wasn't using that site before, I was using another MOT checker on the government site. I've had a look through the past MOTs for all three vans and they seem to be failing on similar things each time, before being retested and then passing the next time round.

Most of what you need to ask is standard to all sizes of box but with a 3.5 I would say the most important thing is payload. They can vary between .8t and 1.2t. It is extremely unlikely that, despite what the adverts say, you will find a 3.5t that can legally carry 2 ponies (unless they are shetties or have learnt how to drive the lorry themselves). Just remember that payload has to allow for the fuel, the driver, the horse and all its stuff, soon adds up!

Thank you for the advice. I only have one horse who is about 500kg, so with all the tack, water, fuel, hay, etc, I imagine it will come to about 800kg for just him. Someone earlier mentioned getting a weight certificate, so this is definitely something I'll look into and ask the sellers about.

Apart from mechanical std checks, checking all lights etc work, spare wheel and changing equipt and service history:

Check floor, best is aluminium but not all have that. Budget up to 1k to replace if rotting at all (should be about 600 +/-)
Height of breast bar, is it safe for yours?
Emergency access?
Check all hinged doors, make sure catches work and are not worn or loose, are hinges and any air/gas struts working?
Any signs of leaking? From roof or Windows.
Check partition, is it secure at both ends? Do any closing fixings protube?
Weight cert, when was it done? (They are dated!) Would the owner mind you accompanying them to get a new one?

Edited to add, 1 x 500kg equine, can make approx 800kg by the time you have tack, hay, water, rider, all picnic and associated stuff on the box for a day out

Thank you for the advice on the floor. I have been told by one seller that their box has a metal floor, but what kind of metal they didn't say. Thos eare excellent questions to ask and things to look for. I hadn't thought about the hinges and checking for leaks. I'm going to be taking a written list of all these question with me so I don't forget to ask the sellers anything in my excitement!

did you look here?
https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

I can see back about 12 years on my box using this link.

Re payload - many sellers won't know this, but if you just google 'public weighbridges' and the county you are in you'll be able to find a list of the ones in the area - it's inexpensive to do, I paid £6 to weigh mine.

Personally I wouldn't use one without some kind of barrier between horse area and groom area but these can be retrofitted so not the end of the world, I paid a few hundred to add one to mine - but do factor it into payload.

I also bought one with a dodgy floor that I knew about, the van floor underneath was solid but the wood was probably the original floor and about 15 years old so had gone soft. my OH is very handy so replacing it was only about £200 incl new rubber mats so not the end of the world. Dunno what your budget is but just mentioning it in case you find your perfect box that just needs some tlc

Thank you for the link. I've checked out all the vans on there and some seem to fail consistently every year before passing again the second time round. I may well ask the semmers how much it has cost them to put the vans through the MOT in terms of repair costs, etc.

All of the boxes I am looking at have a barrier between the groom area and the horse area, so that's all fine.

My budget isn't huge. Probably up to £7k max. I am looking at a couple of boxes that are cheaper than that, so I guess factoring in repair costs on the cheaper ones versus investing more in the ones at the top end of what I can afford is definitely something to consider.

My honest advice to you is before you go asking anyone else questions is sit down and ask yourself a question

'will my excitement impair my judgement?'

when I bought my first 3.5t I did little more than squeal and throw money at the seller. this cost me dear and there are countless others out there who bought poorly, sometimes the excitement about having transport can make us loose all sense of proportion

If you are at all unsure about what you are doing find someone who knows at least a smidge about buying vans and take them along with you

That is excellent advice, thank you very much! I am very excited about it, but I am also wary of spending a lot of money on something that may, in turn, need even more money spending on it. I am in no rush to buy a box and my mum is coming along with me - she is an excellent voice of reason and has past (albeit a long, long time ago) experience of buying boxes.

^^ this is great advice my OH is a total killjoy in this respect but def stops me making gleeful but bad decisions

Your OH sounds like a useful person to have around! I am hoping my mum can help curb my excitement and she can offer a more unbiased opinion on the box. I am excited about transport, she doesn't want me to throw away thousands! (I have no desire to throw away all that money either, but excitement can make us do daft things sometimes.)

 

[turnbuckle]

The good news is that unlike a few years ago, there's a great supply of boxes out there.

One poss obvious point, only look at ones on a (almost certainly) Renault or Fiat chassis where the horse sits between the wheel arches - low centre of gravity.

Don't put too much faith in yr screwdriver, if you don't know what you're looking for you can miss loads. But lifting the mats is an excellent idea.

Weighbridge cert vital, but dodgy sellers can strip out anything moveable before taking them. Suggest you take it yoursel (with seller). Payload clearly not a issue for you, but people get quite worked up about it and it WILL affect resale value.

Totally agree that an inspection by a specialist is KEY. And pay them - helps concentrate the mind!

Good luck, you'll have much fun.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Turnbuckle, the Movano also has low load centre, this and the Renault are exactly the same on all models up to around 2012

 

[turnbuckle]

KNEW I had missed that out! Brain freeze. Blame the snow

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

KNEW I had missed that out! Brain freeze. Blame the snow

Mind you, OP might well be including the older VW too which were pretty low.
OP, avoid the old Ford Transits and any Mercs as too high and unstable.

 

[Moogleberry]

In addition to payload check the bulk head, some are frighteningly lightweight considering you have the back end of a horse right behind the driver. Make sure they haven’t used light weight materials to keep the payload higher. We bought a used Marlborough box this year after a lot of research and were shocked at some we saw

 

[rifruffian]

I just recently got transport.

My idea was to buy 3.5ton box but....... the quality of stuff on offer relative to the prices and........the outright lies from some sellers......made me end my search for 3.5t.

I got car and trailer after that.

 

[PeterNatt]

Make absolutely sure that the cam belt has been recently changed. If the cambelt breaks then the engine can be completely destroyed.
Check it has the correct tyres on it and that they are in good condition and esnure that there is a good spare tyre/wheel.

 

[milliepops]

Make absolutely sure that the cam belt has been recently changed. If the cambelt breaks then the engine can be completely destroyed.
Check it has the correct tyres on it and that they are in good condition and esnure that there is a good spare tyre/wheel.

these are also really good points. I knew mine hadn't had the cambelt done for ages so budgeted that in too, wasn't too expensive. The tyres on mine had LOADS of tread but due to the low mileage of the box they must have been on for yonks and were perishing.

 

[tda]

Don't want to be a killjoy, but for that amount to money, you're not going to get much, I.e. very old, or knackered ��

 

[milliepops]

Who says, tda? I spent less than 5K, put another £1k into it doing the floor, cam belt and climb barrier... and ended up with an old but very tidy and safe box with less than 60,000 on the clock, which I'm out and about in every week. Bills have been very low and my horses travel well.

Yes, take care but happy shopping, OP

 

[Taliesan]

Thank you for all the advice everyone! I'm on my phone now so can't reply to everyone individually (it would take an age to do it all in one post like I did last time) but I really appreciate all the help you've given me.

The bulkhead is definitely something I'm checking and looking at. The van conversions I'm going to see are all on a Renault Master or Vauxhall Movano chassis. I also mean to ask the sellers who did the conversion and then check out the reputation of that company.

The suggestion about the cambelt is an excellent one. I'll definitely ask when this was last done and, if it isn't recent, I'll budget in getting it done myself.

On the note about not being able to afford anything decent for £7k, I think you most certainly can but need to have your wits about you. I'm not expecting great things from the box. I know it won't be perfect and it most likely won't be pretty. As long as it runs reliably, doesn't fall apart as soon as I get it home and is safe for my horse then I'll be happy.

 

[ester]

It is definitely doable. I would certainly err on a conversion by a known company. There are so many people banging them out at the moment, some on older chassis so would start to come into budget on that basis but you'd definitely be better off with an older build from a good builder. I know several older racemasters that are fab boxes for instance.

The only other thing I thought off is think a bit about layout, some of the MWB boxes (marlboroughs at least) do have the wheel arches in the horse area, I think whether this is an issue depends on the horse.

I would absolutely recommend you get a good (if possible horsebox) mechanic to look it over for you, I didn't because I sort of knew the source but wish I did!

 

[Taliesan]

There certainly are. I may have another look at the photos of the vans and see if I can spot anything about who converted them on the back. Quite a few I've seen have stickers on them showing the name of the business that converted it.

With regards to a mechanic, I know that is a good idea but it won't be possible for the ones I'm going to see at the weekend. They are all about three hours north from where I live and I don't know any trusted mechanics in the area.

I may well not purchase any of the boxes I am going to see, but if I ever look at any closer to home I'll definitely get my mechanic to give it a once over.

 

[tda]

Who says, tda? I spent less than 5K, put another £1k into it doing the floor, cam belt and climb barrier... and ended up with an old but very tidy and safe box with less than 60,000 on the clock, which I'm out and about in every week. Bills have been very low and my horses travel well.

Yes, take care but happy shopping, OP

Well done, you're doing better than me �� nothing around here

 

[ester]

There certainly are. I may have another look at the photos of the vans and see if I can spot anything about who converted them on the back. Quite a few I've seen have stickers on them showing the name of the business that converted it.

With regards to a mechanic, I know that is a good idea but it won't be possible for the ones I'm going to see at the weekend. They are all about three hours north from where I live and I don't know any trusted mechanics in the area.

I may well not purchase any of the boxes I am going to see, but if I ever look at any closer to home I'll definitely get my mechanic to give it a once over.

google is your friend there are people that do this professionally for a reason I actually ended up speaking to the guy based in essex (I was 3 hours away then) after I bought it (turned out he had inspected it previously for someone else so was able to confirm that my garage wasn't imagining things) he was super helpful and I wished I had spoken to him before purchasing. - The result was I put in a complaint to VOSA about the MOT and the garage who had passed it for the previous owner forked out about £1.5k for work but that was obviously very stressful at the time. I won't ever trust an MOT cert again.

 

[Taliesan]

google is your friend there are people that do this professionally for a reason I actually ended up speaking to the guy based in essex (I was 3 hours away then) after I bought it (turned out he had inspected it previously for someone else so was able to confirm that my garage wasn't imagining things) he was super helpful and I wished I had spoken to him before purchasing. - The result was I put in a complaint to VOSA about the MOT and the garage who had passed it for the previous owner forked out about £1.5k for work but that was obviously very stressful at the time. I won't ever trust an MOT cert again.

Really? That is good to know. I have been going off all of the MOTs so far.

If I like one of the vans I guess I can always make a conditional offer for the van based on it passing a mechanical inspection. I can have a look on Google to see who is in the area.

It is a shame they aren't closer to where I live as I have a wonderful mechanic here who I trust absolutely!

 

[milliepops]

Worth asking trusted sources too... I got mine after a tip off from Polly at travel two horseboxes. They had nothing in my budget but a previous customer was trading up so Polly told me about the old box and I snapped it up. Took some of the worry out of it because she knew the history of the vehicle and it was a good conversion.

 

[Taliesan]

Thank you. That is a good idea as well. All of the ones I'm looking at are from private sellers, not dealers, but hopefully I'll be able to get some indication from others about them with a bit of research.

Two have been done by Classic Conversions - has anyone heard of these boxes or have any feedback on their work?

 

[Spottyappy]

I second Ester with the mechanic. My one stopped me buying a few as he found serious issues that I would have never spotted.
He will travel, too, and comes from a horsey background so knows his stuff.
Pm me if you need his details as I don’t want to be seen as advertising on here.