race horse breeding

madeleine1

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( also in breeding as no sure where it fits)

So this may not make much sence be im hopeing ive figured out enough.
I have recently purchased a five year old tb mare. I brought her as a project to straighten out. Make into a nice ride and sell on for a small profit. I have her passport so researched her family a bit.

She is an ex racer having raced as a two year old six times ( I believe). So I was hoping people who know more about racing then me can tell me how good she is?

she is called mantuana and her parents are kodiac and al shakoor. She has danehill as a grand parent. Sadlers wells as a great grand parent and northern dancer as a great great grandparent on both sides.

aprently ive been told this matters.
please explain
 

LadyRascasse

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TB genes mean very little, they are very inbred. It is rare to find a TB who doesn't have Northern dancer one at least one side. Unless you sell her as a broodmare it will have little impact on her sale value and without being rude she has little breeding value to the racing world or she would have been retained by a stud.
 

LadyRascasse

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I have looked it up, your mare did very little on the racetrack, her dam didn't race and her sire was only placed in group 3 company so in racing terms not notable breeding, sorry. I would just work hard on making her a good riding horse and sell her on her own merits than worry about her breeding.
 

dominobrown

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I work for a racehorse breeder who owns several stallions, and a lot of mares!
She has raced 6 times, best placing being a 2nd in her 2nd run. She has one just over £1000. So she didn't really set the racing world alight.
Her sire seems to produce mainly 2 year olds, but nothing amazing amazing and they are cheap horses looking at the price they make at the sales.
Your horse sold at the sales for £5000 in 2010, so quite cheap for a flat horse.
She has some brothers and sisters too, but none of them have done anything of what I can find. If she had an amazing brother of sister who had won a lot then she would be worth a punt to breed from, but unfortunately not.
I have a saddler's wells and so does most of the country, and danehill is common as well. Yes they were good stallions but every other TB is related to them.

So bloodlines/ form wise nothing special, but obviously that doesn't matter now. My TB is a bit similar but has brilliant confo and a lovely nature so unless you want to race her or breed a racehorse it doesn't really matter :)
 

chazza44

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Northern dancer was Canadian sports personality of the the year and won the Kentucky derby. Many race horses are related to Saddlers wells who was the most prolific sire in the 1990s.
Google Northern dancer loads about the little guy. Our horses are cousins!
 

madeleine1

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she has really good comfirmation and she is so chilled and cuddly. she already comes to me in the field and ive had her for 2 weeks. i didnt want a brood mare so thats not a problem that shes not worth much as a brood mare.( personally think we have to much breeding) however will it mean she does better if a future owner take her in the show ring? as she is built really nicely.
also i dont mind what she is good at as i can jump and ride a decent dressage test but with that breeding what do you recon she will be good at? or is it just a process of have a go and see how she goes.

love that she has a mega horse family out there even if it changes nothing.
eek lol cousins
 

Lolo

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Breeding means very very little in RoR classes. The only time I've heard it commented on was when there are two horses directly related (same dam or sire), or if the judge knows of the breeding and thinks the horse is very much typical. Like Reg tends to get that he is the spit of his sire, because he is in an almost unnerving way, and his sire did well racing (Alflora).

They're so inbred though. Reg has Northern Dancer on both sides within one generation (paternal grandfather, maternal great grandfather...). No one really cares! It's not the breed they're showcasing in RoR classes, so breeding is of very little importance beyond the initial potential quality of the horse.

Tbh all our ex-racers have had 'famous' sires and were reasonably well bred, and were all utterly appalling racehorses!
 

paisley

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Its not really that important if you have a nice horse with decent conformation, I would just see what you both like doing together!
Although if I have the name right she has some Nearctic/Nearco in there (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/kodiac)and I'm very fond of those -mine was from that line, had stunning conformation and was a decent all rounder
 

Slightlyconfused

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I work for a racehorse breeder who owns several stallions, and a lot of mares!
She has raced 6 times, best placing being a 2nd in her 2nd run. She has one just over £1000. So she didn't really set the racing world alight.
Her sire seems to produce mainly 2 year olds, but nothing amazing amazing and they are cheap horses looking at the price they make at the sales.
Your horse sold at the sales for £5000 in 2010, so quite cheap for a flat horse.
She has some brothers and sisters too, but none of them have done anything of what I can find. If she had an amazing brother of sister who had won a lot then she would be worth a punt to breed from, but unfortunately not.
I have a saddler's wells and so does most of the country, and danehill is common as well. Yes they were good stallions but every other TB is related to them.

So bloodlines/ form wise nothing special, but obviously that doesn't matter now. My TB is a bit similar but has brilliant confo and a lovely nature so unless you want to race her or breed a racehorse it doesn't really matter :)

Who do you work for? Our ex racer spent some time when he came over from Ireland with Alan Berry up North before going to David Nicholls.

Breeding means very very little in RoR classes. The only time I've heard it commented on was when there are two horses directly related (same dam or sire), or if the judge knows of the breeding and thinks the horse is very much typical. Like Reg tends to get that he is the spit of his sire, because he is in an almost unnerving way, and his sire did well racing (Alflora).

They're so inbred though. Reg has Northern Dancer on both sides within one generation (paternal grandfather, maternal great grandfather...). No one really cares! It's not the breed they're showcasing in RoR classes, so breeding is of very little importance beyond the initial potential quality of the horse.

Tbh all our ex-racers have had 'famous' sires and were reasonably well bred, and were all utterly appalling racehorses!


Same here, ours have Northern Dancer on both sides as great grandad, and has Secretariat as another great grandad.


Though I have found that the Saddlers Wells TBs I have met seem to be slightly flighty and very fine were as the ones with Northern Dancer in them tend to be a stocky traditional stamp of a TB
 
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paddi22

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you'd struggle to find a racer that doesn't have saddlers wells or northern dancer somewhere in their past!
My lad has good breeding but is a complete disaster of a horse! The breeding means very little - if your horse is nicely put together and has the right temperament then that's worth 100 times more than the breeding.
 

madeleine1

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she is a solid horse i believe. she has 9.5 inches of bone. and just isnt a spindly flighty tb. im glad ive got these opinions coming back cos it give me a better understanding of how tb breeding works. i was aiming for a cobby gelding as my first project but o well
 

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Its not really that important if you have a nice horse with decent conformation, I would just see what you both like doing together!
Although if I have the name right she has some Nearctic/Nearco in there (http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/kodiac)and I'm very fond of those -mine was from that line, had stunning conformation and was a decent all rounder

Everything that has Northern Dancer has Nearctic in it - and that's an awful lot of horses. For example I have a Shire X TB, a KWPN, an Anglo Arab, and a full TB - they ALL have Northern Dancer in there somewhere (or a good few times).
 

cptrayes

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she is a solid horse i believe. she has 9.5 inches of bone. and just isnt a spindly flighty tb. im glad ive got these opinions coming back cos it give me a better understanding of how tb breeding works. i was aiming for a cobby gelding as my first project but o well

She's an ex flat racer with 9.5 inches of bone :eek: - have you measured that right?
 
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Prince33Sp4rkle

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echo Lolo-we have one by Galileo (who is the absolute spit of him) who was only a moderate racehorse and then the other is by Daylami and was hopeless!

i wouldnt worry too much, let her tell you what she enjoys :)
 

oldjumper

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If your horse has raced in this country, join Racing Post and you should be able to view videos of it racing - great fun!
If you have a good TB, you have one of the best horses in the world, however slow it is!
 

madeleine1

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Yeah... Reg at 17hh and a proiser old fashioned NH type horse doesn't even come close to that. Actually, neither does the 15.2hh cob!

Yes. Triple checked and it is 9 and a quater. She Is over 16 hands. And my sport horse has simular ( half a cm more) and she is only 16 hh. Also got a second opinion from a qualified and highly trained instructor
 

madeleine1

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I do but im at work atm and so will have to work out the photobucket thing later and share. Not to many photos yet as shes been on a two week trial until this weekend and havnt tidied her up yet as I didnt own her till Saturday
 

Aeolian

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Interesting thread, I owned two TB mares over 25 years, both decently bred, but once they're out of training and breeding that really doesn't mean anything, as the other posters have said. It's now much more about temperament and the relationship you build with Mantuana, and also soundness as racing can take its toll.

Even though your mare's breeding is of little or no practical relevance, I had a lot of fun looking up my horses relations. I don't know if you're aware but the free site below is excellent. You can look up your mare's ancestors all the way back to the three foundation stallions who came over from the middle east 300 years ago, often with info and pictures:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/mantuana4

Enjoy your TB, she's from the best breed in the world, and best of luck.
 

Swirlymurphy

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Breeding means very very little in RoR classes. The only time I've heard it commented on was when there are two horses directly related (same dam or sire), or if the judge knows of the breeding and thinks the horse is very much typical. Like Reg tends to get that he is the spit of his sire, because he is in an almost unnerving way, and his sire did well racing (Alflora).

They're so inbred though. Reg has Northern Dancer on both sides within one generation (paternal grandfather, maternal great grandfather...). No one really cares! It's not the breed they're showcasing in RoR classes, so breeding is of very little importance beyond the initial potential quality of the horse.

Tbh all our ex-racers have had 'famous' sires and were reasonably well bred, and were all utterly appalling racehorses!

I didn't realise that Reg was an Alflora offspring - our exracer was as well!
 

Lolo

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I didn't realise that Reg was an Alflora offspring - our exracer was as well!

I was googling him ages ago and found this photo:
65864_10200370496292103_1021601541_n.jpg


Reg is nearly identical!

All the best ex-racers are Alflora babies :D
 
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There are some tb bloodlines that I wouldn't touh with a ten foot barge pole! Indian Danehill being one - I have never met a nice one yet! They have all had a dangerous streak in them whether it be in the box, leading them out or on their backs at some point they have all tried to do you harm. Sadler's Hall - they tend to be gutless when it comes to a fight. No use for racing. If they are winning then they win by a good bit if they have to fight for it then they give way. Selkirk's can be little bar stewards.

You can usually tell a Sadler's Wells offspring (son/daughter - grand son/daughter) a mile off. 90% of them have white on the face and legs somewhere.

I would however have an Alflora, Sagacity or Silver Patriarch horse any day. Alflora's are genuine, can be nervy but tend to trust their rider's completely. Sagacity's are lovely natured horses with very good feet - probably the Selle Francais in him. Silver Patriarch - just genuinely nice horses to be around.

At the end of the day if your not breeding or racing then bloodlines don't really matter.
 

Lolo

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Sorry OP, I am high jacking! But EKW, we've had offspring of both Alflora and a Silver Patriarch and they were both lovely horses. Bee was a quirky madam, but was a lovely person to know and once she'd decided you were worthy of her time was very talented and fun.

Have you seen/ met any Sagamix offspring? He's a French sire and I can't find much about him...
 

Dizzle

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Tbh all our ex-racers have had 'famous' sires and were reasonably well bred, and were all utterly appalling racehorses!

I had one that was by Indian Ridge out of a Sadler's Wells mare, his full sister (equally as rubbish at racing) sold for something like 50,000 euro as a broodmare, her gelded brother was worth zilch!

When I first bought him he was kept at a yard with two of his Uncles!
 
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