race horse breeding

[Elf On A Shelf]

GrayMo's year older full sister won over a million dollars and was placed in Breeder's Cups. Gray won 60k between flat racing in America and jumping over here. He would have won more if his legs weren't so fragile!

Good bloodlines only INCREASE your chances of getting a good racehorse, they most certainly don't guarantee it!

 

[rara007]

The breeding won't make any difference in the show ring either way, it's judged on the horse as it stands not who it is related to or how it did/didn't do on the track. At least that's how it is in most classes and local shows- not looked into ROR etc.

 

[SaddleUpSin]

My cousin has an ex racer with nothern dancer bloodlines and she did terrible on the track and so did her offspring because they were all too laid back! She's the gentlest girlie I've ever met and a complete angel to handle, I love her

 

[madeleine1]

My cousin has an ex racer with nothern dancer bloodlines and she did terrible on the track and so did her offspring because they were all too laid back! She's the gentlest girlie I've ever met and a complete angel to handle, I love her

Im already fighting with myself not to grt attached

 

[Aeolian]

EKW's remarks remind me of a what I was told years ago by one of the first equine dentists in the UK, Gary Singh. He did the teeth of a huge number of racehorses, and I used to hold the horses for him when he came to our yard just to listen to him. He said he always asked a horse's breeding before doing them. Anything by Nijinsky or Green Desert and he wouldn't go in their boxes without two other people in there with him.

Apparently Green Desert himself was OK, but his sons could be murderous maniacs. Interesting that Silver Patriarch (by Sadler's Hall - gutless?) is mentioned as siring nice types, as he himself didn't apparently enjoy the best of reputations at the National Stud. Visitors had been told to be very careful. I bet it's because he was still p****d off about Benny The Dip pinching the Derby from him. If only Eddery had gone three seconds earlier...

I've also noticed Primitive Risings

 

[Aeolian]

GrayMo's year older full sister won over a million dollars and was placed in Breeder's Cups. Gray won 60k between flat racing in America and jumping over here. He would have won more if his legs weren't so fragile!

Good bloodlines only INCREASE your chances of getting a good racehorse, they most certainly don't guarantee it!

Good point EKW, that that breeding only increases the the horse's chances in racing. By how much? There were two studies, one by Prof Patrick Cunningham in Ireland, that looked at the performance of around 1,800 racehorses in relation to the form of their relations. Both studies put the influence of breeding at only 35%, the other 65% being down to environment, trainer, jockey etc.

It makes you wonder why so much importance is attached to bloodlines by many people in the TB world, although I think the wiser trainers and agents put much more emphasis on conformation, movement and what they actually see in front of them when they're buying.

Going mainly by breeding can be very expensive, like Godolphin found out with the notorious Snaafi Dancer: 10 million dollars as a yearling, so bad even John Dunlop couldn't get him on the track, sent to stud because of his fabulous bloodlines, and didn't like that much either. A total write-off, but beautifully bred.

 

[khalswitz]

I find the TB breeding very interesting, if not particularly relevant fro exracers (esp geldings!). My lad is by Exit to Nowhere (great grand sire Riverman on male line), and out of a Salse mare. Has quite a lot of prominent stallions in his lines (great grand sires are Riverman, Halo, Mill Reef and Topsider), as well as mares (grand dam Coup de Foilie, out of Raise the Standard). But he was an awful racehorse with one third place finish and nothing else of 8 starts.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Good point EKW, that that breeding only increases the the horse's chances in racing. By how much? There were two studies, one by Prof Patrick Cunningham in Ireland, that looked at the performance of around 1,800 racehorses in relation to the form of their relations. Both studies put the influence of breeding at only 35%, the other 65% being down to environment, trainer, jockey etc.

It makes you wonder why so much importance is attached to bloodlines by many people in the TB world, although I think the wiser trainers and agents put much more emphasis on conformation, movement and what they actually see in front of them when they're buying.

Going mainly by breeding can be very expensive, like Godolphin found out with the notorious Snaafi Dancer: 10 million dollars as a yearling, so bad even John Dunlop couldn't get him on the track, sent to stud because of his fabulous bloodlines, and didn't like that much either. A total write-off, but beautifully bred.

Well despite the fact that there is no guarantee of racing success, there are well known sires of influence, whose progeny produce better than expected results. Saddler Wells produced NH stock for many years, which maintained their prices even if they were not outstanding on the flat. Flat horses top sires get a premium, and league tables are carefully studied, obviously the stud fees reflect market demand.
The price of Snaafii Dancer was example of competition between rival breeder/owners, the winning bidder knew he had paid too much, and that was before he discovered the darn thing was useless.............

Good conformation, temperament and optimum distances tend to be fairly well herititable. Obviously it is a gamble, but any trainer will tell you he will buy the best he can afford, and study of the sales catalogue for pedigree is essential. This will be a good guide for anyone hoping to find a well bred horse consigned from a lesser known breeder, one can still find a good horse for less than £10,000 guineas.

 

[Aeolian]

Well despite the fact that there is no guarantee of racing success, there are well known sires of influence, whose progeny produce better than expected results. Saddler Wells produced NH stock for many years, which maintained their prices even if they were not outstanding on the flat. Flat horses top sires get a premium, and league tables are carefully studied, obviously the stud fees reflect market demand.
The price of Snaafii Dancer was example of competition between rival breeder/owners, the winning bidder knew he had paid too much, and that was before he discovered the darn thing was useless.............

Good conformation, temperament and optimum distances tend to be fairly well herititable. Obviously it is a gamble, but any trainer will tell you he will buy the best he can afford, and study of the sales catalogue for pedigree is essential. This will be a good guide for anyone hoping to find a well bred horse consigned from a lesser known breeder, one can still find a good horse for less than £10,000 guineas.

All true, as an example Sadlers Wells (note one 'd', or online searches don't work, as I've just found out after swearing at the Racingpost site for 10 mins) was an exceptional sire. Just three of his many outstanding flat racing progeny - Galileo, Montjeu and High Chaparral - together won over £7m, not to even think about their stud earnings, which would have been many times that.

The point, though, is that in the overall makeup of a racehorse the sire may not be as influential as might be imagined given the high profile of the top stallions. if the inheritable component of performance is just 35%, and the mare contributes at least 50% of that (some say more), the sire accounts 17.5% or less of the offspring's performance. Couple that with the fact that the best stallions get sent the best mares, which boosts their results compared with other sires, but not through any contribution of their own.

You could also argue, though, that the performance / breeding stats may possibly be misleading. Given the relative similarity of many racehorses physically and in the way they are trained and managed, even if the stallion only contributes 15%, the difference between a winner and a loser may lie substantially in that percentage. It may be a small input, but it might make all the difference.

Thoroughbred breeding: what a fascinating way to waste hours of your time.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Apparently Green Desert himself was OK, but his sons could be murderous maniacs.

yep have met one of his sons and I would never go near him. nasty bleep.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

yep have met one of his sons and I would never go near him. nasty bleep.

We had one [Green Desert], and his temperament was normal.

 

[madeleine1]

not really stood as square as it looks as her front legs are a bit behind as she was streching her neck but it gives u a fair idea of what she looks like