Ragwort all over field - disgusted by HHO member!

horsegirl said:
How it is Defra's fault that this is what you need to do to prevent it? Just because it is impractical doesn't make it poor advice!
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I would say that by very definition giving someone impractical advice is giving them poor advise. Especially if the advice being given is potentially detrimental to the welfare of animals. What if someone read that and thought 'o, my lami pony has grazed it's paddock down to bare earth. I had better turn it out on the whole three acres rather than it's strip of grazing as I now know ragwort is very dangerous and I mustn't let my paddock have bald spots'. I know people should know better but unfortunately some don't.
 
jesstickle said:
I would say that by very definition giving someone impractical advice is giving them poor advise. Especially if the advice being given is potentially detrimental to the welfare of animals. What if someone read that and thought 'o, my lami pony has grazed it's paddock down to bare earth. I had better turn it out on the whole three acres rather than it's strip of grazing as I now know ragwort is very dangerous and I mustn't let my paddock have bald spots'. I know people should know better but unfortunately some don't.
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No, because it is impractical for you. If that is what needs to be done to prevent the spread of ragwort then what else do you expect them to advise? They are telling you what needs to be done they are not saying you must do it.
 
I'm too angry to read this thread. I have seen a horse die from ragwort. In a bareish field (some grass). My own horse was also kept in the field (I was 14) but brought in to feed. Anyone who can't be ar*** to go out with a pinch bar and pull them up is a muppet. When I moved in to my house my fields were full of it - this year (7 years on) I only pulled up 3 lots.
 
I've been upset by the state of some of the paddocks close to where I live. They are filled with ragwort and poo, one wonders how the horses manage to find enough grass to survive. Surely people must KNOW the dangers of ragwort these days ?
 
horserider said:
Under the Weeds Act 1959, Natural England can, and will enforce the act.
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And evidently they are doing a cracking job, considering you can't swing a cat without launching it into a patch of ragwort in this country.
It is a problem in this country because apart from the responsible land owners, there is no authority enforcing any reasonable legislation on the weed.
 
OP contact WHW or BHS.....there HAVE been cases horses have been removed due to being in infested fields. Generaly given 7 days to get the horsrs off and field treated, but if not done after the 7 days they can remove them if its deemed necessary.
 
I am infested with the stuff this year and its a losing battle. I am bordered by the highways agency and a neighbour who has land but no horses and neither give a xxxx.

The only way I can keep it under control is spraying and at upwards of £400 twice a year I can understand why people get fed up of the stuff.

Has anyone considered that these people with ragwort may be just as worried about it but don't have the manpower, health or funds to keep on top of it. They may not be the lazy, uncaring .....'s mentioned they just need help.


Re enforement of legislation from what I gather its only horse owners that don't want it and when funding everywhere is so tight they maybe would prefer to save their money and assume horse owners will deal with it themselves.
 
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The obvious long term worry is if anyone is buying in hay how can you tell it hasnt got ragwort in it. Sellers are not going to admit it has because who would buy it.

The way ragwort is spreading in this country is going to be a real health issue for horses in for years to come.
 
the hay issues is why I won't let my liveries buy their iown. I make my own haylage, from ragwort free pasture. I spend a lot of time and money ensuring I have good grazing and good haylage. I am not going to jeopardise that by allowing unknow haylage/hay to be brought in and chucked on my muck heap. We spread the muck heaps on rested paddocks so any seeds could in effect be spread back out causeing ragwort. I pick about 10 plants a year. but i spray my fields once a year for weed control and that seems to ensure a ragwort plant is a rarity. I have one area of my land that is all fenced in where some previous owner ofthe property dug out a large pond. That has filled itself in over time so is now more of a swamp than anything else and that is where I get the ragwort. I have decided that next year I will spray the whole of that area as well to really get on top of it.
 
Bosworth said:
the hay issues is why I won't let my liveries buy their iown. I make my own haylage, from ragwort free pasture. I spend a lot of time and money ensuring I have good grazing and good haylage. I am not going to jeopardise that by allowing unknow haylage/hay to be brought in and chucked on my muck heap.
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Good point, if only more famers and YO's invested more time and money into preventing the spread and growing good quality hay free from ragwort and other unwanted weeds.
 
Kenzo said:
Good point, if only more famers and YO's invested more time and money into preventing the spread and growing good quality hay free from ragwort and other unwanted weeds.
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Oh, but we do! It's just so difficult to explain to liveries why they aren't allowed to buy hay from somewhere cheaper...:o I make my own hay, it's not enough and I also buy in from 2 farmers, from particular fields; I buy in haylage from 1 farmer, also particular fields.
 
martlin said:
Oh, but we do! It's just so difficult to explain to liveries why they aren't allowed to buy hay from somewhere cheaper...:o I make my own hay, it's not enough and I also buy in from 2 farmers, from particular fields; I buy in haylage from 1 farmer, also particular fields.
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Well I have no idea why you go to these ridiculous lengths, after all, we have been reliably informed by YD that

Q: Is it true that horses usually do not eat fresh Ragwort?
A: Yes, that is right. Only in exceptional circumstances or when there is a food shortage, horses will eat fresh Ragwort. Horses, however, don't recognize dried Ragwort plants as poisonous and contaminated hay may cause Ragwort poisoning. More info

Q: Will my horse get ill when it occasionally eats a mouthful of ragwort?
A; No, incidentally ingesting small amounts of Ragwort will not result in illness. If, however, horses eat several kilograms of Ragwort a day or small amounts for extended periods, this may lead to irreparable liver damage. More info

Q: Do the toxins in Ragworts accumulate in a horse’s body?
A: No. The toxins (pyrrolizidine alkaloids) are excreted within 24-48 hours. If an animal consumes pyrrolidizine alkaloids regularly though, liver damage will accumulate and the animal will show signs of illness. More info (surely this second sentence totally contradicts the 'No' in answer to the Q????)
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And remember it only may cause liver damage.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
brighteyes said:
Well I have no idea why you go to these ridiculous lengths, after all, we have been reliably informed by YD that



And remember it only may cause liver damage.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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It is certainly the case it may cause liver damage. Depending on how much is eaten and the horse in questions liver and metabolism. Just the same as drinking alcohol may cause liver damage. You can't, medically, say that drinking any alcohol causes liver damage in humans because many humans drink occasionally and have perfectly healthy livers. It is scientifically inaccurate to say drinking causes liver damage. I would say the same rings true for ragwort. There will be occasions, I'm sure, where ingestion of ragwort doesn't cause liver damage and therefore people will always be reticent to remove the word 'may' when describing it.

And you misunderstand the fundamental difference between accumulation of a substance in the body and the lasting affects on the body once the substance has been cleared. The last point certainly does not negate the second.

I'm not saying we should feed our horses ragwort but if you're going to get sniffy about wording you should try and understand it first.
 
Just had to post my experiences. A woman I knew kept horses in a field full of ragwort, there was grass there as well. It was a massive field. When I walked around it I could see that some of the ragwort plants had been nibbled.

A couple of horses were subsequently tested and their bloods showed they had early liver damage.

I think it is too simplistic and inaccurate to say that horses don't touch ragwort unless it's dried or there is nothing else to eat. That might be the case for some horses but not all and the dangers of saying it is that some people will believe that their horses won't touch it unless it has wilted.
 
jesstickle said:
It is certainly the case it may cause liver damage. Depending on how much is eaten and the horse in questions liver and metabolism. Just the same as drinking alcohol may cause liver damage. You can't, medically, say that drinking any alcohol causes liver damage in humans because many humans drink occasionally and have perfectly healthy livers. It is scientifically inaccurate to say drinking causes liver damage. I would say the same rings true for ragwort. There will be occasions, I'm sure, where ingestion of ragwort doesn't cause liver damage and therefore people will always be reticent to remove the word 'may' when describing it.

And you misunderstand the fundamental difference between accumulation of a substance in the body and the lasting affects on the body once the substance has been cleared. The last point certainly does not negate the second.

I'm not saying we should feed our horses ragwort but if you're going to get sniffy about wording you should try and understand it first.[/QUOT

The only thing to understand is ragwort is dangerous to horses thats all there is to understand about it and it can kill them
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Equestrianfriends said:
jesstickle said:
It is certainly the case it may cause liver damage. Depending on how much is eaten and the horse in questions liver and metabolism. Just the same as drinking alcohol may cause liver damage. You can't, medically, say that drinking any alcohol causes liver damage in humans because many humans drink occasionally and have perfectly healthy livers. It is scientifically inaccurate to say drinking causes liver damage. I would say the same rings true for ragwort. There will be occasions, I'm sure, where ingestion of ragwort doesn't cause liver damage and therefore people will always be reticent to remove the word 'may' when describing it.

And you misunderstand the fundamental difference between accumulation of a substance in the body and the lasting affects on the body once the substance has been cleared. The last point certainly does not negate the second.

I'm not saying we should feed our horses ragwort but if you're going to get sniffy about wording you should try and understand it first.[/QUOT

The only thing to understand is ragwort is dangerous to horses thats all there is to understand about it and it can kill them
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paracetamol can kill you. It's really, really bad for your liver. Do we write on the packet paracetamol causes liver disease. No. Because it doesn't. Not necessarily. We say it MAY cause liver damage.

I am all for people being aware that ragwort is dangerous but to rip into YD for saying something may cause liver disease when that is entirely accurate as a statement is unfair.

By pointing that out I am not denying we should all try and keep on top of our ragwort.
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jesstickle said:
Equestrianfriends said:
paracetamol can kill you. It's really, really bad for your liver. Do we write on the packet paracetamol causes liver disease. No. Because it doesn't. Not necessarily. We say it MAY cause liver damage.

I am all for people being aware that ragwort is dangerous but to rip into YD for saying something may cause liver disease when that is entirely accurate as a statement is unf

horses do not think like us humans. Ragwort is deadly and ragwort poisoning is deadly and not very nice for horses and yes it does cause liver damage
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Equestrianfriends said:
jesstickle said:
ragwort is poisonous!! paracetomal is not poisonous to us. Its a total kettle of fish lol You cannot compare ragwort and paracetomal. And also horses do not think like us humans. Ragwort is deadly and ragwort poisoning is deadly and not very nice for horses
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Paracetamol certainly is poisonous to us. As is alcohol. That is why you can die from ingesting either of them. If you ingest a very small amount there are few consequences, just as there are few consequences for horses ingesting small amounts of ragwort. Prolonged use of paracetamol at a reasonable level will finish you off, so will an overdose of it. Just as prolonged exposure to ragwort, or an overdose will kill off a horse.

I am still not advocating leaving ragwort unchecked. I am merely being a little bit scientific in response to hysterical scare mongering.
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jesstickle said:
Equestrianfriends said:
Paracetamol certainly is poisonous to us. As is alcohol. That is why you can die from ingesting either of them. If you ingest a very small amount there are few consequences, just as there are few consequences for horses ingesting small amounts of ragwort. Prolonged use of paracetamol at a reasonable level will finish you off, so will an overdose of it. Just as prolonged exposure to ragwort, or an overdose will kill off a horse.

I am still not advocating leaving ragwort unchecked. I am merely being a little bit scientific in response to hysterical scare mongering.[/QUO

like i said we have choices horses dont they do not think like us same as any animal
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jesstickle said:
Equestrianfriends said:
paracetamol can kill you. It's really, really bad for your liver. Do we write on the packet paracetamol causes liver disease. No. Because it doesn't. Not necessarily. We say it MAY cause liver damage.

I am all for people being aware that ragwort is dangerous but to rip into YD for saying something may cause liver disease when that is entirely accurate as a statement is unfair.

By pointing that out I am not denying we should all try and keep on top of our ragwort.
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Actually if you read the insert, the dangers are highlighted on paracetamol. They're not on the packet because there isn't room. There was also a campaign a few years ago, suggesting that as little as 8 can be an overdose.

Alkaloids have been shown many times to cause liver damage. There's no 'maybe' about it.
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Equestrianfriends said:
like i said we have choices horses dont they do not think like us same as any animal
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This is very true. And we should do our utmost to protect them. It still doesn't mean we need to get sarky about someone's perfectly correct wording that 'ragwort may cause liver damage' though. That was all I was pointing out.
 
Fransurrey said:
Actually if you read the insert, the dangers are highlighted on paracetamol. They're not on the packet because there isn't room. There was also a campaign a few years ago, suggesting that as little as 8 can be an overdose.

Alkaloids have been shown many times to cause liver damage. There's no 'maybe' about it.
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Why has this turned into 'pick holes in everything Jess says' day :confused::confused:

...She's in agreement with the majority of you, and has said several times that ragwort can be extremely dangerous and should be kept away from horses :rolleyes:
 
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Lady La La said:
Why has this turned into 'pick holes in everything Jess says' day :confused::confused:

...She's in agreement with the majority of you, and has said several times that ragwort can be extremely dangerous and should be kept away from horses :rolleyes:
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Because I stupidly decided to pull someone up for picking holes in someone else. My own fault but ta for sticking up for me petal :)
 
jesstickle said:
Because I stupidly decided to pull someone up for picking holes in someone else. My own fault but ta for sticking up for me petal :)
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Not 'sticking up' for you as such, it just seems silly that focus has now shifted to you & how you're incorrect about paracetamol - when essentially, you agree with the dangers of keeping ragwort around horses... same as me & most other responsible horse owners...
 
Fransurrey said:
jesstickle said:
Actually if you read the insert, the dangers are highlighted on paracetamol. They're not on the packet because there isn't room. There was also a campaign a few years ago, suggesting that as little as 8 can be an overdose.

Alkaloids have been shown many times to cause liver damage. There's no 'maybe' about it.
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Gah. I know. But what the insert says is 'MAY cause liver damage'. Just like ragwort MAY cause liver damage.

I really don't think you people are listening to me. I am aware ragwort is dangerous. I am arguing an issue of semantics, not saying ragwort is safe!
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jesstickle said:
Gah. I know. But what the insert says is 'MAY cause liver damage'. Just like ragwort MAY cause liver damage.

I really don't think you people are listening to me. I am aware ragwort is dangerous. I am arguing an issue of semantics, not saying ragwort is safe!
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Have a vodka & Tonic m'love.. :p (I appreciate its normally gin, but I hate the stuff...)
 
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