ragwort I have had it with the myths

Nick Altena said:
All you're life... and you're 66
I read in other post...20 years...15 years...pulling ragwort to lose it.

That's a long time , especially if written by some people here that no new plants come up when you pull out the plant.

I have some questions reading this:

Like Alec, a lot of people say that ragworth is coming up more and more...
What do the people here think is the reason for that ?

Why is it taken so long to lose the ragwort from you're pastures when pulling is so successfull as written down by a lot of people here?
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horserider said:
No one said they were pulling ragwort from the same pasture for 20 years. Many horse owners move their horses around.
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I did and I have. It is reseeded every year by the Council who allow it to grow willy nilly on the verges and spread it higher and higher into the hills every year with their cutting machines. And by surrounding sheep farmers who do not control it. I get one or two new plants a year on 12 acres.


Losing it is impossible in that situation. Pulling it up when a properly grown plant and not a rosette has never, in 20 years that I have been doing it, resulted in regrowth in the same spot.
 
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rhino said:
I think the point is an ongoing vendetta against Prof. Knottenbelt ;) :) Nothing more, nothing less.
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I agree. The advice has been limited to "don't pull rosettes" and "don't put salt in the hole" and "buy hay with no ragwort in". Plus totally unworkable advice to have well fertilised thick grass sward, which can be pretty much lethal to a laminitic.

The rest has just been long posts containing a tirade againt Prof. Knottenbelt which are completely irrelevant to any discussion of how to manage ragwort in horse pasture.

Now Nick and Esther, are you going to tell us what your real agenda is, or not?
 
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ragwortsense said:
All I can point to is the 2002 edition of the Atlas of British & Irish Flora http://www.brc.ac.uk/plantatlas/index.php?q=plant/senecio-jacobaea which says 'The distribution of S. jacobaea is unchanged from the map in the 1962 Atlas'.

So, at the time people were claiming it was becoming much more widespread, the atlas found no change.
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Distribution and volume are not the same thing.

Distribution -areas of the country in which it grows - may be little different. Volumes are hugely greater in this area than they were 20 years ago and make it increasingly difficult for people to keep their horse pasture free of it.
 
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Nick Altena said:
Oke, i have a next question :

If you (the most of the people in this treat) don't like what WE (Esther and I ) write and think its just an ongoing vendetta against Prof. Knottenbelt (who is, as a fact , the person that spread the nonsens).... just take some time and read this one en tell me what you think after that...

http://www.buglife.org.uk/News/news...g+information+about+Ragwort+-+a+British+wildf
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Why do you insist on thinking we are stupid and don't read? I read it when this thread started, and if an ASA adjudication is the worst 'dirt' you can dig on someone I'd say it's a pretty poor show to be honest?! I would love a link to the adjudication itself though, please, as there seems to be extremely contradictory responses to the outcome in the various sites you recommend.

A flawed study by the BHS? I honestly couldn't care less. I don't think they have an agenda, other than trying to protect horses against something that kills. To think that the only figures you will accept are deaths specifically linked directly to ragwort on pathology is absolutely ridiculous though; I spent 2 years working for an equine vet practice, running their lab, and the only times they were asked to perform a post mortem was in one stallion with a 'suspicious' death, and two high performance horses who had collapsed. Post Mortems are not a routine sight in veterinary practice over here, although death caused by liver failure is... funny that?!
 
Wow, HHO are seen as the enemy to the ragwort lovers. Didn't know we were famous :rolleyes:http://ragwort-hysteria.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/ignorance-and-bigotry-in-face-of.html

The more I look on the internet about these people and their agenda, the more weird it becomes.

Did you know the author of the above blog got the adverts warning about the dangers of ragwort to horses removed ?

I really didn't know there was such a vocal movement out there to promote the growth of ragwort.

I'm off to the council to get them to organise the removal of ragwort on their land before these campaigners prevent the Weeds Act being enforced.
 
Nick Altena said:
All you're life... and you're 66
I read in other post...20 years...15 years...pulling ragwort to lose it.
I don't understand your point.

That's a long time , especially if written by some people here that no new plants come up when you pull out the plant.
Pulling Ragwort is only a temporary measure.

I have some questions reading this:

Like Alec, a lot of people say that ragworth is coming up more and more...
What do the people here think is the reason for that ?
A combination of reasons;
Over grazing, which encourages an ideal environment for the plant.
Global warming, and without doubt the successive mild winters have encouraged those who keep livestock to over-winter their animals, out rather than bringing them in, which in turn has compounded the practice of over grazing, which then in turn creates yet another perfect environment for the plant, and so on ad-naseum.

Why is it taken so long to lose the ragwort from you're pastures when pulling is so successfull as written down by a lot of people here?
Pulling Ragwort does little to reduce any future infestation. It simply removes the pulled plant which is no longer a threat to the animals contained.
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Otherwise, I'm with Stinkbomb, in that I haven't a clue what the argument is about, or achieving. :confused:

Alec. :D
 
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rhino said:
.......

To think that the only figures you will accept are deaths specifically linked directly to ragwort on pathology is absolutely ridiculous though;

.......
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I agree. Formal and in depth PMs are extremely costly, and when a horse dies from chronic liver failure, and the animal has been kept on Ragwort infested ground, or been fed Ragwort infested hay, then there seems little point in spending a great deal of money to be told something which the owner already knows.

Liver failure generally, is down to one of two reasons, Liver Fluke, or Ragwort poisoning. Fluke is unusual, Ragwort isn't.

Alec.
 
Nick Altena said:
Oke, i have a next question :

If you (the most of the people in this treat) don't like what WE (Esther and I ) write and think its just an ongoing vendetta against Prof. Knottenbelt (who is, as a fact , the person that spread the nonsens).... just take some time and read this one en tell me what you think after that...

http://www.buglife.org.uk/News/news...g+information+about+Ragwort+-+a+British+wildf
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Nick that reference has nothing whatsoever to do with anything that you are advising that any HHO member should do differently and is a pointless waste of time for anyone to read. Ragwort needs removal from horse pasture, as you agree. Monsanto sell a weedkiller that will do it. Ragforks work for grown plants but are probably not advisable for rosettes. The BHS is stressing a little too much about a plant which is known to kill horses. SO WHAT!?!

Ragwort is not rare, it does not need protecting. It beggars belief that the people who made those complaints to the ASA could not find a better way to spend their time, and sure as eggs is eggs I have better things to do with my time than read the full judgement.
 
horserider said:
Wow, HHO are seen as the enemy to the ragwort lovers. Didn't know we were famous :rolleyes:http://ragwort-hysteria.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/ignorance-and-bigotry-in-face-of.html
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I have posted this comment to the latest post of this blog but I doubt if it will ever appear. The post makes the assertion that ragwort deaths are rare.

You do not know how rare or common ragwort poisoning is because post mortems are not routinely carried out on horses. None of us know.

In the interests of the same kind of accuracy that you are requesting from those who say ragwort causes a high number of horse deaths, can you please edit your text to remove the statement that ragwort poisoning in horses is rare.

I would also prefer it, in the interests of objectivity, if you did not write as if the removal of ragwort from horse pasture was going to cause a shortage of it for bugs. The plant is extremely common, there will be no shortage for the caterpillars.
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NICK and ESTHER

One more time and lets see if we get an answer this time. What is it that you want the British public to do about ragwort that they do not do at the moment? Don't pull rosettes, don't put salt in the holes, don't panic. OK, got that thanks. Grow a thick fertilised grass sward. No thanks, it's not safe for lots of horses. IS THAT IT?
 
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Apparently they refer to removal of ragwort from horse pasture as 'horsteria'.


Its been quite an eye opener to discover that swarms of bug lovers see the horse fraternity as the enemy.
I'm guessing brought about as response to the Ragwort Control Act in 2003, which followed on from the 1959 legislation.


To devote webpages, blogs, etc to the weed is slightly obsessional and controlling, don't you think ?
 
Are you insane ? Perhaps I can direct you to another 'source' against Ragwort - namely the RSPCA - whose page today highlights the danger of leaving it in grazed pasture. Go away and stop posting dangerous rubbish. :mad:
 
cptrayes said:
I have posted this comment to the latest post of this blog but I doubt if it will ever appear. The post makes the assertion that ragwort deaths are rare.


NICK and ESTHER

One more time and lets see if we get an answer this time. What is it that you want the British public to do about ragwort that they do not do at the moment? Don't pull rosettes, don't put salt in the holes, don't panic. IS THAT IT?
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We tell this!!! Horse pastures and Ragwort. Prevention is easier than cure.
And I copy now what we tell from my website. This is under protection of copyright, try te read and learn. Read what we are telling and how we solved the problem. The refere4nces I put in the next post, it is to big for one post.

By Esther Hegt and Dr. Pieter B. Pelser ( University of Canterbury- Biological Sciences, Christchurch, New Zealand). Thanks to Lex van de Weerd, grasslandspecialist (Barenbrug Holland b.v.) for his advice.

Common ragwort (Jacobaea vulgaris) is a common weed native to Europe, and north and western Asia. It usually grows in places where the original vegetation has been disturbed, in nutrient poor pastures, and areas that have been recently transformed into nature preserves. This species, just like all other ragworts in western Europe, contains pyrrolizidine alkaloids of the senecionine type. Upon ingestion, these chemical compounds are poisonous to most vertebrates and insects (1, 2, 3). When growing in pastures that are used for grazing or hay production, ragwort species are therefore a potential health hazard to cattle and horses. Although horses usually don’t feed on living ragworts, dried plants are not recognized as poisonous (3, 5, 6, 7, 8) and alkaloid poisoning may therefore occur when ragwort ends up in hay that is meant for consumption (4).

Tansy ragwort is difficult to control

Once common ragwort has established itself in a horse pasture it is very hard to control the plant. It is, for instance, not easy to remove the plant manually. To be effective, this requires removing the entire plant, including all its roots, because even from small root fragments new plants can sprout. Manual removal is therefore generally only effective when fighting seedlings and rosettes, because larger plants are often too deeply rooted to be removed without leaving root fragments behind. An additional disadvantage of pulling ragwort is that this disturbs the soil, which may result in the surfacing and subsequent germination of tansy ragwort seeds that may be present in the seed bank.
Furthermore, soil disturbance creates a suitable environment for incoming common ragwort seeds to germinate. Another form of ragwort control is preventing the plant from producing seeds. Because ragwort is a plant with a short life span, it is sometimes thought that if the ragwort cannot propagate itself, it will eventually disappear from a field. Unfortunately, also this method is not always successful. In a natural situation common ragwort dies after flowering and subsequent seed production (7, 8, 9). Removal of the inflorescence by mowing or cutting, however, may cause the plant to sprout again the same of following year, prolonging its life span (7, 8, 9).
Using herbicides to control ragwort is also no guarantee for success. The products that are frequently used are absorbed by the leaves and are subsequently transported to the other parts of the plant. This, due to the large size of full-grown common ragwort plants, might take some time (10, 11, 12, 13) and is often only effective when the plants are still seedlings or rosettes. When applying herbicides, it is important to make sure that the plants are not under stress (for example, by drought or extreme temperatures). It is therefore best to apply herbicides in favorable weather conditions when the plants are actively growing. Selective herbicides such as 2.4.D and MCPA do not kill grass and are therefore preferable.

The best defense is a good offence

Because ragwort is hard to control once it has established itself in a horse pasture, it is important to prevent the plant from settling. Maintaining a dense layer of grasses and other ground covering plants is in this respect a good strategy, because this reduces the chances that ragwort seeds will germinate.
Unfortunately, it is not always easy to maintain such a dense layer of vegetation in a horse pasture, because horses damage the ground cover by running, playing, and grazing. Good field management is therefore of utmost importance (14, 15, 16, 17). Because grass only grows well when soil fertility levels are up to standard, it is important to know how fertile the soil of your horse pasture is. This information can be obtained from a company that provides fertilization advice based on soil samples of your pasture. Proper fertilization is not only a good method to reduce the chances that ragwort will establish itself in a field, it also allows grasses to compete better with other weed species and prevents erosion (14, 15, 16, 17).
In addition to maintaining soil fertility levels, it is important to make sure there is a good mixture of grass species. Different grasses have different characteristics. For instance, some grasses grow predominantly upwards whereas others grow, through offshoots, in a more horizontal direction. Grasses also vary in their potential to regenerate after damage. Sowing the right combination of grass species is therefore important to obtain a strong and resilient grass layer (18). Unfortunately, the number of grass species that can be used in a pasture is rather limited, because not all grasses are suitable for horses. Some grasses contain too much fructane, which increases the risk of founder (15, 17, 19, 20, 21). Special grass seed mixtures are, however, available for horse pastures.

Rotating grazing is a good principle

Even in fields where the soil is fertile and there is a good mixture of grasses, horses will damage the grass layer. This is especially a problem when there is only a small area available per horse, because in such fields the risks of over grazing and soil disturbance are higher. The grass simply doesn’t get the time to recover. This can be prevented by dividing the horse field in compartments. In this way, the horses can be moved to another part of the field when the grass becomes too short or when the soil is damaged: rotating grazing. This will give the damaged part of the field some time to recover. It is recommended to make sure that the grass does not get shorter than 5-6 cm. As soon as the grass has grown back to 15-20 cm it can be used for grazing again. It is best to cover the damaged parts of a field with old hay or manure. This will give new grass plants the chance to grow and prevents the germination of weeds such as ragworts.
Another strategy to prevent over grazing and soil disturbance is to limit grazing to only a few hours per day. This method works best in combination with rotating grazing, because even with moderate grazing grass needs a few weeks to fully recover from grazing.

Common ragwort is a common and native plant in the Netherlands. In the past decades, this plant has become more abundant in especially the northern and eastern parts of our country. This relatively recent expansion in an area where this plant is not yet well known by people, the danger that ragwort plant can form for horses when it ends up in hay, and the fact that Common ragwort does well in horse fields and other man-made environments, are causing concern among horse keepers. It is, however, impossible to exterminate Common ragwort in the Netherlands.
Because Common ragwort predominantly grows in places where the natural vegetation is damaged or removed, it will be impossible to make sure that this species becomes less common, let alone that it will disappear from the landscape, as long as the large-scale construction of infrastructure, houses, and industrial areas continues and agricultural land is still being converted into nature preserves. In our opinion, the solution to the ‘ragwort problem’ is to provide accurate information about Common ragwort and introducing proper legislation. It is, for instance, of the utmost importance to monitor the origin and composition of hay to make sure that ragwort-contaminated hay will be sold as food for horses. In the absence of effective methods to remove Common ragwort from a pasture, field management is in our opinion a good way to reduce the nuisance that this species can cause.
 
Black Beastie said:
Just to say I HATE the yellow stuff with a passion but I hat ignorant lazy farmers more :mad:
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Black Beastie said:
Yup farmers dont care as they take the cows etc out before there is too little grass to have the beasts NEED to eat it so they dont are that it spreads everywhere.
! :(
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Some possibly don't, but lots do, rather general statement here?

Black Beastie said:
Take gumption if you like, winding yourself up over summat thats nothing to do with you is pointless but each to their own after all, but I NEVER said ALL farmers are lazy I said I hated lazy farmers ;) :D
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Grow up, its as much to do with me as anyone else on this post:rolleyes: 'Yup farmers don't care' comment does seem to band them all as one:confused:
 
The references about my pasture managament page, It wasn't possible to paste it after that page, everybody can control the references.

References:

1 Schneider, D. 1987. The strange fate of pyrrolizidine alkaloids. In: Chapman, R. F., E. A. Bernays & J. G. Stoffolano (Eds.). Perspectives in chemoreception and behavior: Springer, Berlin/Heidenberg. 123-142.
2 Boppré, M. 1986. Insects pharmacophagously utilizing defensive plant chemicals (pyrrolizidine alkaloids). Naturwissenschaften 73: 17-26
3 Macel, M. 2003. On the evolution of the diversity of pyrrolizidine alkaloids. The role of insects as selective forces.Thesis Leiden University.
4 Vos, J. H., A. A. J. Geerts, J. W. Borgers, M. H. Mars, J. A. M. Muskens & L. A. van Wuijckhuise-Sjouke. 2002. Jacobskruiskruid: bedrieglijke schoonheid. Tijdschr. Diergeneesk. 127: 753-756.
5 Giles, C. J. 1983. Outbreak of ragwort (Senecio jacobaea) poisoning in horses. Equine Veterinary Journal 15: 248- 250.
6 Bain, J. F. 1991. The biology of Canadian weeds. 96. Senecio jacobaea L. Canadian Journal of Plant Science. 71:127-140.
7 Poole, A. L. & D. Cairns. 1940. Botanical aspects of Ragwort (Senecio jacobaea L.) control. Department of Scientific and Industrial Research Bulletin 82: 2-61.
8 Harper, J. L. & W. A. Wood. 1957. Senecio jacobaea L. The Journal of Ecology 45: 617-637.
9 Weeda E.J., R. Westra, CH. Westra & T. Westra. 1987. De Nederlandse oecologische flora, wilde planten en hun relaties.
10 McLaren, D. & F. Mickan, 1997 The Ragwort Management Handbook., Department of Natural Resources and Environment. Melbourne.
11 McLaren, D. & I. Faitfull, 2004 Ragwort management. Department of Natural Resources and Environment.Melbourne.
12 Muyt, A. 2001. Bush invaders of south-east Australia. R.G. & F.J. Richardson, Meredith, Vic.
13 Parsons, W. T. & E. G. Cuthbertson, 2001. Noxious Weeds of Australia. 2nd Ed. Collingwood, CSIRO Landlinks Press Australia.
14 Myers, J. 2005. Managing Horses on Small Properties. CSIRO Landlinks Press Australia.
website
15 Watts. K. 2007. Rocky Mountain Research and Consulting, Inc. 491 West CR 8 North Center, CO 81125
website
16 Horse Forage and Forage Management 1997-2007. The Samuel Roberts Noble Foundation, Inc.
website
17 Waller, S. S., E. M. Lowel, L. E. Moser, G. A. Gates & P. E. Reece. 1985. Understanding Grass Growth: The Key to Profitable Livestock Production.
website
18 Pihlajamaa-Glimmerveen, L. E. 2006. Grassen de basis van onze beschaving.
website
19 Smith, D. 1973. Nonstructural Carbohydrates. Butler, G. W. & R. W. Bailey (Eds.). Chemistry and Biochemistry of herbage. Academic Press, London:1: 105-155.
20 Veldman, F. H. M. & I. Kooistra. 2006. Fructaanpagina, Paard natuurlijk.
website
21 Watts, K. A. 2005. Unlikely sources of excess carbohydrate in equine diets. Journal of Equine Veterinary Science 25: 338-344.
 
Nick Altena said:
I just registered here and have read the forum rules.
Maybe you should also ...

Personal attacks are not allowed

I know that my English writing is not good, I had written this in my signature just for this type of reactions.
Google is a help, but certainly not flawless.
Would you try to write / read Dutch?

Come on, give substantiated answers.
It is not even necessary that they are not of the same idea as that of our
But when you have nothing sensible to say you do not write this type of response
From this we learn nothing ....

Incidentally, we (also) appear here because there are a lot of emails from England include people who have to look further into this issue ...
They hear, see and read other things that we have discovered through years of searching with the help of many professional people /
And coincidence or not, but almost everyone, including in England, one starts from the version of Knottenbelt with statements in mail he has admitted to have made mistakes ....

a question for you:
Any idea how well scientific research works?

A second question:
Why do you think Knottebelts scientific studies about ragwort have never been published or repeated to see what Knottenbelt claimed was true?

Yes he did research about ragwort, but not in the proper scientific way ....
Yet I see on almost any other site in England (but also in other countries that have the same info unthinkingly took over) his statements ....

Facts ?
Here is a link so you can control what i'm writing:
http://www.liv.ac.uk/equine/staff/derekknottenbelt/

The only scientific research publication about the PA's and blood with some work of Knottebelt is this one:
Moore, R.E. Knottenbelt, D. Matthews, J.B. Beynon, R.J. & Whitfield, P.D. (2008) Biomarkers for Ragwort Poisoning in Horses: Identification of Protein Targets. BMC Veterinary Research MS: 1237079124188210

But this was not specific ragwort PA, there are moor than 6000 ! plants with the (almost) same PA's.

So... this time a normal answer please ?
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Unfortunately, your english is so bad that it is quite impossible to make much sense of what you are trying to say. I speak some french but personally, I would not have the arrogance to go on a french website to engage in a challenging topic such as this or to lecture the french on how they should manage their own land and horses.

You (and your friend Esther) don't seem to be able to answer simple questions without referring us to endless amounts of data, other websites/links or, indeed, boring us senseless. Specific questions have been posed yet you both have seen fit to dodge and skirt around the issues rather than provide a definitive answer. As cptrayes says:

One more time and lets see if we get an answer this time. What is it that you want the British public to do about ragwort that they do not do at the moment?

You tie yourself up in knots rambling on and on which is probably why you are struggling with the language. The golden rule with any foreign language is: KEEP IT SIMPLE.

Regardless of what you have to say, I'm afraid I agree with Rhino here: I think the point is an ongoing vendetta against Prof. Knottenbelt Nothing more, nothing less.
 
EstherHegt said:
We tell this!!! Horse pastures and Ragwort. Prevention is easier than cure.
And I copy now what we tell from my website. This is under protection of copyright, try to read and learn. Read what we are telling and how we solved the problem. {edit, a page or more follows with the same information as has already been given before on this thread}
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Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.

How many times are you going to repeat the same thing? Let me try it too.

IT IS NOT EASIER TO STOP RAGWORT GROWING THAN TO REMOVE IT WHEN IT HAS GROWN


Plants can't easily be removed
I have been removing one or two plants (grown but prior to seeding, not at rosette stage) a year from my land for 20 years, and masses more from the verges near my property. I have never had one regrow in the same place, it is reseeded from my neighbours' land and by the Council cutting machinery.


Dense well fertilized sward will not allow ragwort to grow.
It would be VERY dangerous for my borderline laminitic horse for me to improve the fertility of my land. He manages well on poorly fertilized flower meadow. He would blow up on well fertilized dense sward.

Paddock rotation will allow proper grass maintenance for ragwort production
It is NOT easier for me to rotate paddocks. It is easier for me to graze 12 acres with 2 horses year round, and it is nicer for them to have space to have a wild gallop when they want and choice of plants to graze.



I know English is not your first language, Esther but the way you use it ("try to read and learn", [people who disagreed with you] "stopped thinking") is both patronising and insulting to native speakers. You have an opinion about how to manage grazing to prevent ragwort. I do not agree with it. Neither will a lot of other people. Please respect that and stop repeating yourself ad nauseam.
 
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if you really want to read what I write my english is clear enough.
On other forums they have no problems with it.
Oke...lets keep it simple this time ( i think i am on a verry special forum here:

Let me ask a question.
Why do you and other people in England defend a person that come with false information and put the entire country into a "ragwort" panic ?

I can tell you that he self-admitted that his studies at various points have been incorrectly carried out and he has gambled the numbers of 6000 dead horses.
the fact that his name is mentioned by us is because almost everyone in England took over his examinations without any control of it was correct.

in parentheses
For me it is permitted if you try to answer in Dutch , I will say nothing about all your mistakes and very likely still understand you....
Growe up , is this the way how you deal with other people in England ?
Its like i tell a little child that santa isn't real... just the same reactions here....
You MUST not respond, it is permitted..
We , Esther and I still write on a normal level... i respect you're way of thinking and ask you al you do the same.
Talk at a normal level with each other, then there is more to learn than this nonsense about my english...
 
Nick Altena said:
All you're life... and you're 66
I read in other post...20 years...15 years...pulling ragwort to lose it.

That's a long time , especially if written by some people here that no new plants come up when you pull out the plant.

I have some questions reading this:

Like Alec, a lot of people say that ragworth is coming up more and more...
What do the people here think is the reason for that ?

Why is it taken so long to lose the ragwort from you're pastures when pulling is so successfull as written down by a lot of people here?
Click to expand...

Ragwort seeds can remain dormant in the ground for as long as 20 years, when the ground becomes disturbed then they begin to germinate, horses make the ground perfect for them to do this because of the damage their hooves do on wet ground. Ragwort is appearing more and more because it is not being adequately controlled by either local authorities on their land nor by some farmers. When we pull the ragwort in our fields it may take years to eliminate it completely (assuming no further contamination during that time), it does decrease year on year though and eventually would just be the odd plant. The most important thing anyone can do is prevent it seeding.

As much as I think it is a lovely plant to look at (smells awful though) it would not bother me one bit to see it completely eradicated in this country, and I am quite sure I am not the only one. If that means losing the cinnabar moth too then so be it!

What would be really, really interesting would be if Professor Knottenbelt appeared on here to answer the rubbish being claimed about him! I would not dream of going on to a forum in another country and badmouthing such a highly respected professional and I feel quite put out that you seem to find that acceptable!

Please feel free to cultivate as much ragwort as you wish in your own country and leave us in peace to manage our pastures as we see fit!
 
Nick Altena said:
Let me ask a question.
Why do you and other people in England defend a person that come with false information and put the entire country into a "ragwort" panic ?
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I do not defend him.

No-one has defended him against your suggestion that his ragwort research is flawed.

I do not recognise your term "ragwort panic" in relation to anything that I see going on in this country.

We do not care because it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever as to how we actually manage our land that Knottenbelt has, or has not, exaggerated the risks.

The fact is that ragwort is poisonous to horses. It is also easy to spot and easy to remove. So we do. And we check forage that we buy to make sure there is none dried in it, or we check it in the field before it is made.

Nothing that you or Esther have written is going to change any of that. So we are all completely flummoxed as to why you are posting this stuff at all.

Please stop, for all our sakes. I am not xenophobic but I am now heartily sick of being told by two Dutch people what is going on in my own country, and of being given dangerous advice on the management of my own land.
 
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Jacobskruiskruid zaden kunnen slapend in de grond blijven zo lang als 20 jaar, wanneer de grond wordt dan verstoord ze beginnen te ontkiemen, paarden maken het terrein ideaal voor hen om dit te doen vanwege de schade die hun hoeven doen op natte grond. Jacobskruiskruid is verschijnen er steeds meer, omdat het niet voldoende onder controle door een van beide plaatselijke autoriteiten op hun land, noch door een aantal boeren. Toen we het Jacobskruiskruid te trekken in onze velden het kan jaren duren om volledig te elimineren (ervan uitgaande dat geen verdere besmetting in die tijd), het doet verminderen jaar op jaar al en uiteindelijk zou gewoon de oneven plant. Het belangrijkste wat iedereen kan doen is voorkomen dat het zaaien. Zo veel als ik denk dat het een mooie plant om naar te kijken (stinkt wel) zou het niet de moeite mij een beetje om het te zien volledig uitgeroeid in dit land, en ik ben er vrij zeker van dat ik ben niet de enige. Als dat betekent dat het verlies van de cinnaber mot ook het zij zo! Wat zou eigenlijk zijn, zou echt interessant zijn als professor Knottenbelt verscheen op hier om het afval wordt beweerd over hem te beantwoorden! Ik zou er niet aan denken over te gaan tot een forum in een ander land en groffe woorden die een zeer gerespecteerde professional en ik voel me wel op dat je lijkt te vinden dat acceptabel te zetten! Voel je vrij om te kweken zo veel Jacobskruiskruid als je wilt in je eigen land en ons met rust te laten om onze weiden te beheren zoals wij dat nodig achten!
 
cptrayes said:
do not agree with it. Neither will a lot of other people. Please respect that and stop repeating yourself ad nauseam.
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OK, it is clear, people in UK want to feed ragwort to prevent laminitis and they don't want a solution for good pasture management. Bad horsemanship. I have a PPID horse ( before they called it Cushing) , and I can manage that with gras that is suitable for horses, maybe look at this site http://www.safergrass.org/ because all horse owners know how difficult is. But EMS or PPID also need good management. My horse do well, in a good pasture. I will try to make a photo from our mammuth in pasture with good management, it will be tomorrow.
 
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