ragwort I have had it with the myths

[EstherHegt]

Jacobskruiskruid zaden kunnen slapend in de grond blijven zo lang als 20 jaar, wanneer de grond wordt dan verstoord ze beginnen te ontkiemen, paarden maken het terrein ideaal voor hen om dit te doen vanwege de schade die hun hoeven doen op natte grond. Jacobskruiskruid is verschijnen er steeds meer, omdat het niet voldoende onder controle door een van beide plaatselijke autoriteiten op hun land, noch door een aantal boeren. Toen we het Jacobskruiskruid te trekken in onze velden het kan jaren duren om volledig te elimineren (ervan uitgaande dat geen verdere besmetting in die tijd), het doet verminderen jaar op jaar al en uiteindelijk zou gewoon de oneven plant. Het belangrijkste wat iedereen kan doen is voorkomen dat het zaaien. Zo veel als ik denk dat het een mooie plant om naar te kijken (stinkt wel) zou het niet de moeite mij een beetje om het te zien volledig uitgeroeid in dit land, en ik ben er vrij zeker van dat ik ben niet de enige. Als dat betekent dat het verlies van de cinnaber mot ook het zij zo! Wat zou eigenlijk zijn, zou echt interessant zijn als professor Knottenbelt verscheen op hier om het afval wordt beweerd over hem te beantwoorden! Ik zou er niet aan denken over te gaan tot een forum in een ander land en groffe woorden die een zeer gerespecteerde professional en ik voel me wel op dat je lijkt te vinden dat acceptabel te zetten! Voel je vrij om te kweken zo veel Jacobskruiskruid als je wilt in je eigen land en ons met rust te laten om onze weiden te beheren zoals wij dat nodig achten!

I like your post!!! Google translate did not everything right, but I like the time you did for this. That is trying to commicate and investing in understanding each other.
I would really like proffesor Knottenbelt would respond in public and explain his nonsense!!

 

[cptrayes]

OK, it is clear, people in UK want to feed ragwort to prevent laminitis and they don't want a solution for good pasture management.

I used to like the Dutch.

Please go away before you bring any more of your countrymen into disrepute in the UK.



...

 

[Dolcé]

I like your post!!! Google translate did not evreything right, but I like the time you did for this. That is trying to commicaate and investing in understanding each other.
I would really like proffesor Knottenbelt would respond in public and explain his nonsense!!

LOL, I am sure it didn't and I just hope there was nothing rude in there!

You are putting too much importance on Professor K's research (re ragwort - the rest of his research has probably contributed to most equine treatments known throughout the world), far more than we do in this country. We control ragwort, on our own land, the way we see fit and were doing this long before Prof K pulled ragwort without gloves (FWIW I don't ever wear gloves when I do it so if I die of liver failure then I will look back and think "Professor Knottenbelt was right"!)

You seem to think we are all panicking over here about ragwort whilst, to us, you are the one who is coming across as being hysterical about it, we just deal with it as we need to. I don't believe there is anything at all that you can say that will change how we manage ragwort in this country.

 

[Dolcé]

I used to like the Dutch.

Please go away before you bring any more of your countrymen into disrepute in the UK.



...

I had an uncle that was Dutch, he used to pull ragwort (and had never heard of Professor Knottenbelt!) (True!!)

 

[EstherHegt]

I had an uncle that was Dutch, he used to pull ragwort (and had never heard of Professor Knottenbelt!) (True!!)

We also do in the pasture, but before it is bloomiing, when it is blooming you have slept the year before

 

[cptrayes]

We also do in the pasture, but before it is bloomiing, when it is blooming you have slept the year before

Am I going mad?

We pull ragwort. Esther now says they pull ragwort. I think I just saw a unicorn shake hands with a mermaid. This whole thread is one crazy joke. I need some sleep, off to bed. Bye.

 

[Queenbee]

OP, are you an orange and black caterpillar by any chance?

one of the funniest posts Ive read in a long time

 

[EstherHegt]

Am I going mad?

We pull ragwort. Esther now says they pull ragwort. I think I just saw a unicorn shake hands with a mermaid. This whole thread is one crazy joke. I need some sleep, off to bed. Bye.

Esther never told you have need ragwort in the pasture, read what we write ;-) It is prejustice because I am done with the myths that makes people blind about our posts, luckily the Britisch people are very polite and read well ;-)
I love the ( non) arguments.
My first post was about myths, they are confirmed, thanks all.

 

[Ebenezer_Scrooge]

The references about my pasture managament page, It wasn't possible to paste it after that page, everybody can control the references.

References:

1 Schneider, D. 1987. The strange fate of pyrrolizidine alkaloids. In: Chapman, R. F., E. A. Bernays & J. G. Stoffolano (Eds.). Perspectives in chemoreception and behavior: Springer, Berlin/Heidenberg. 123-142.
2 Boppré, M. 1986. Insects pharmacophagously utilizing defensive plant chemicals (pyrrolizidine alkaloids). Naturwissenschaften 73: 17-26
3 Macel, M. 2003. On the evolution of the diversity of pyrrolizidine alkaloids. The role of insects as selective forces.Thesis Leiden University.
4 Vos, J. H., A. A. J. Geerts, J. W. Borgers, M. H. Mars, J. A. M. Muskens & L. A. van Wuijckhuise-Sjouke. 2002. Jacobskruiskruid: bedrieglijke schoonheid. Tijdschr. Diergeneesk. 127: 753-756.
5 Giles, C. J. 1983. Outbreak of ragwort (Senecio jacobaea) poisoning in horses. Equine Veterinary Journal 15: 248- 250.
6 Bain, J. F. 1991. The biology of Canadian weeds. 96. Senecio jacobaea L. Canadian Journal of Plant Science. 71:127-140.
7 Poole, A. L. & D. Cairns. 1940. Botanical aspects of Ragwort (Senecio jacobaea L.) control. Department of Scientific and Industrial Research Bulletin 82: 2-61.
8 Harper, J. L. & W. A. Wood. 1957. Senecio jacobaea L. The Journal of Ecology 45: 617-637.
9 Weeda E.J., R. Westra, CH. Westra & T. Westra. 1987. De Nederlandse oecologische flora, wilde planten en hun relaties.
10 McLaren, D. & F. Mickan, 1997 The Ragwort Management Handbook., Department of Natural Resources and Environment. Melbourne.
11 McLaren, D. & I. Faitfull, 2004 Ragwort management. Department of Natural Resources and Environment.Melbourne.
12 Muyt, A. 2001. Bush invaders of south-east Australia. R.G. & F.J. Richardson, Meredith, Vic.
13 Parsons, W. T. & E. G. Cuthbertson, 2001. Noxious Weeds of Australia. 2nd Ed. Collingwood, CSIRO Landlinks Press Australia.
14 Myers, J. 2005. Managing Horses on Small Properties. CSIRO Landlinks Press Australia.
website
15 Watts. K. 2007. Rocky Mountain Research and Consulting, Inc. 491 West CR 8 North Center, CO 81125
website
16 Horse Forage and Forage Management 1997-2007. The Samuel Roberts Noble Foundation, Inc.
website
17 Waller, S. S., E. M. Lowel, L. E. Moser, G. A. Gates & P. E. Reece. 1985. Understanding Grass Growth: The Key to Profitable Livestock Production.
website
18 Pihlajamaa-Glimmerveen, L. E. 2006. Grassen de basis van onze beschaving.
website
19 Smith, D. 1973. Nonstructural Carbohydrates. Butler, G. W. & R. W. Bailey (Eds.). Chemistry and Biochemistry of herbage. Academic Press, London:1: 105-155.
20 Veldman, F. H. M. & I. Kooistra. 2006. Fructaanpagina, Paard natuurlijk.
website
21 Watts, K. A. 2005. Unlikely sources of excess carbohydrate in equine diets. Journal of Equine Veterinary Science 25: 338-344.

What a load of tosh & also the references you used are all out of date in academic terms....no current research then in favour of "ragworth"

 

[EstherHegt]

What a load of tosh & also the references you used are all out of date in academic terms....no current research then in favour of "ragworth"

LOL take this recent one http://edepot.wur.nl/167548

 

[Alec Swan]

Esther never told you have need ragwort in the pasture, read what we write ;-) It is prejustice because I am done with the myths that makes people blind about our posts, luckily the Britisch people are very polite and read well ;-)
I love the ( non) arguments.
My first post was about myths, they are confirmed, thanks all.

Esther, whilst I accept that English isn't your first language, and I also accept that you've done your best, I may not be alone in that I'm struggling to understand the above comments.

I'm not avoiding the issue, I promise you, but if you are to argue, then the opposition (that's us, apparently) need to be able to have a clear understanding of your points, I don't, and I'm sorry.

Alec.

 

[Queenbee]

The Association for Ragwort Species Enlightenment (ARSE) are certifiably insane. Ragwort is my enemy. If I so much as see an inkling of the devil plant, it is dug up and suffers an excruciating death by burning. This small act brings me great pleasure.

PMSL

That is because I did triggered some I think? My first post was clear, the first response was angry and a lot repeated that and became angry and stopped thinking ;-)

I actually think it must have been you and your friends who stopped thinking... a very long time ago. Your 'management' suggestions are incredulous, there are 14 pages because people just cant understand what you must have hit your head on to be spouting such absolute stupidity. You must also understand that there are a great deal of intelligent, knowledgable, experienced people on here who have no problem investigating and researching new theories, people are always willing to try new things and explore new techniques, but your arguments are so flawed and dangerous, you have of course angered a lot of people on here. I suggest you go and play with your catterpillars and deal with the lamanitic horses that you get from putting them on lush fertillised grazing, far more risky in my opinion than pulling up highly toxic weeds... FACT not MYTH!

 

[Dolcé]

Esther never told you have need ragwort in the pasture, read what we write ;-) It is prejustice because I am done with the myths that makes people blind about our posts, luckily the Britisch people are very polite and read well ;-)
I love the ( non) arguments.
My first post was about myths, they are confirmed, thanks all.

I have just looked at the English version of your site and I am not really sure why you originally posted, there is nothing on there that I didn't already know, having researched ragwort some years ago. I don't think I know anybody who believes the 'myths' over the facts, the site contains only information that is common knowledge. As far as I can see the only thing you are concerned about is the research done by Professor Knottenbelt into the effect of handling ragwort. In several of the previoous posts on this thread it has been said that Prof K admitted to you that mistakes were made - I do not believe this. What I do think is that he told you it wasn't a 'scientifically controlled' research, he also told you that he has suffered liver damage due to handling ragwort.

I would suggest that, before you write on a public forum that his research, regarding ingestion through the skin, is wrong, you should as experts arrange for this to be scientifically proven. How about you carry out a controlled test as to the effects of handling the plant and then you will be in a position to put us all right on this fact.

Having actually looked at the site you are advocating I'm afraid I am now another who believes that there is perhaps a personal vendetta against Professor Knottenbelt - there is no other explanation for the content of your OP.

 

[EstherHegt]

I have just looked at the English version of your site and I am not really sure why you or

I would suggest that, before you write on a public forum that his research, regarding ingestion through the skin, is wrong, you should as experts arrange for this to be scientifically proven.

We did.

 

[Dolcé]

LOL take this recent one http://edepot.wur.nl/167548

OK, so again nothing I didn't already know BUT it clearly states that the effects on humans through skin ingestion is still being researched and are at the moment unknown! I think huge apologies are due to Professor Knottenbelt who you have seriously bad mouthed on this thread for something that hasn't been proven as being wrong.

 

[Dolcé]

We did.

Link please?

 

[rhino]

Link please?

Also a link to the ASA adjudication that I asked for pages ago please, it's most odd that I can't find it on searching their database

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

Having actually looked at the site you are advocating I'm afraid I am now another who believes that there is perhaps a personal vendetta against Professor Knottenbelt - there is no other explanation for the content of your OP.

Interesting that this comment hasn't received a denial.

Alec.

 

[rhino]

Interesting that this comment hasn't received a denial.

Alec.

They all but admitted it a page or so ago, in a somewhat vulgar response

I think the point is an ongoing vendetta against Prof. Knottenbelt Nothing more, nothing less.

who burns his buttocks has to sit on the blisters

 

[Dolcé]

They all but admitted it a page or so ago, in a somewhat vulgar response

I saw your comment Rhino and then after actually reading the English site realised that it was the only genuine complaint they could have, everything else is common knowledge over here for anyone that has ever bothered looking into ragwort.

I will be interested to see the results of the scientific research carried out which proves that handling the plant is not harmful.

 

[Nick Altena]

I do not defend him.

No-one has defended him against your suggestion that his ragwort research is flawed.

Yes they did....

I do not recognise your term "ragwort panic" in relation to anything that I see going on in this country.

Oke, a question again
why the hate for this plant in recent years (afther "his" studies) while the same plant growing plenty in your country for centuries?
(i am 53 and from my 16the so far I visit England every year and have see al lot ragwort in all those years... )
Did the horse onwers not know this plant before ?
Keep people than horses all these years without knowing what is and is not good for them?
That say a lot....

We do not care because it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever as to how we actually manage our land that Knottenbelt has, or has not, exaggerated the risks.

??? you do not care how you actually manage your land ???
The most important point if you keep a horse???
As studies have proven that pull out plants by hand (or "special" ragwort-fork) does not work and brings you more harm than it solves you have no intrest and do not care ? It makes no difference to you ??

[/QUOTE]
The fact is that ragwort is poisonous to horses. [/QUOTE]

We never disagree that point

[/QUOTE]
It is also easy to spot and easy to remove.[/QUOTE]

Ummmm not for all people i gess, there are a lot of requests on our forum for plants to identify because they can not see if it is ragwort.
The most confusion is in the rosette of dandelion as an example.
And psssst.... those questions also come from...(we can see where people come from...also the site they come from )

So we do. And we check forage that we buy to make sure there is none dried in it, or we check it in the field before it is made.

Not every body can visit or have the field, when you buy by a wholesale for example you never know where its coming from.(in the Netherlands at least, i don't know that for England)

Is there a controlling authority or label in England for ragwort free hay ?
We do have this in de Netherlands to solve this problem. (thanks to Esther and other people)

Nothing that you or Esther have written is going to change any of that. So we are all completely flummoxed as to why you are posting this stuff at all.

one of the problems is ... if you , all horse-owners in England , look no further than your own problem... and so nothing wil change....all the other that has taken over the same info from this Proff. still believe what they read on every site in England.
And thát is because it is simply a fact that the English language by many people can read and understood

Please stop, for all our sakes.

Again....
Stop with what ?
Is it forbidden for us as outsiders to write and learn something here , for example why English people still believe the old and not correct info ?

If so... I was capable and FREE to register here.
There was nothing in the rules that makes me clear that a discussion was not allowed.
Ask the moderator to close this forum for us and other strangers , then you have a select group of like-minded and you have no "problems" like this in the future....

Thank god we think different for people outsite the Netherlands... I would be ashamed if I had this setting on our forum !

I am not xenophobic but I am now heartily sick of being told by two Dutch people what is going on in my own country, and of being given dangerous advice on the management of my own land.

We do not give dangerouse advice, if so tell me were we did and what that dangerous info is.

it is the impression we get from anywhere on English site's with outdated info to encounter so we think that horse owner in England doing nothing the last past years to look for facts that are based on solid research

Esther (and i) gave that info here with references of experts and the latest info on ragwort, but what do you people here do with it ?

Nothing but complaints about the English writing and tell no intrest...

WHY ??? we don't understand why the most of you in England as horse-owners don't want to look at the last information about ragwort and don't want to know that what is told to you by the media the last past years is not correct because....

But you're lucky...
I probably have to leave you for a few days.... maybe even visit you're country !
But that is because I also know there are friendly people living there...

 

[rhino]

Please link directly to the scientific study carried out by the BHS. You claim an estimate of 6500 deaths per annum is excessive, and it may well be, but (a) it appears to be only ever have been claimed as an estimate, and (b) the fact that the vast majority of reporting veterinarians had seen cases of equine ragwort toxicity over the relevant timescale would tend to suggest that it is not as 'rare' as you claim.

Show to me exactly when and where Professor Knottenbelt insisted that 1000 horses died a year of ragwort poisoning, not as an 'estimate' but as an 'absolute'.

You claim that there are only 13 cases approximately of equine ragwort toxicity per annum in the UK. Do you not feel this is a deeply misleading figure, when post mortems are EXTREMELY uncommon in this country? You don't find it conceivable that a large number of horses dying of liver disease are as a result of ragwort poisoning? Really?

Please link directly to the scientific study you claim you have undertaken which proves entirely that it is impossible for the harmful toxins to be passed on through skin.

Please link directly to the numerous studies you claim to prove that the amount of ragwort growing in this country (oh, and would you please refer to us as the UK; we are not all in England or English you know ), NOT the distribution, has decreased or remained static in the last, say, 30 years.

Oh, and personal vendettas, unsubstantiated, ongoing attacks aimed at a person or company are actually not allowed on the forum.

I don't honestly care how many horses ragwort kills. One is too many. I will continue to ensure that animals in my care do not have access to it.

 

[Dolcé]

I have read the latest research that was linked, the one that contained nothing about ragwort that I didn't already know (and is freely available on many of our own sites) and clearly stated that, as yet, research on the effects of handling was not complete and it was unknown whether or not it is harmful.

Once again, you ignore all previous comments, ignore requests for links because, in fact, it is yourself and Esther who are unwilling to listen to anything said that you don't agree with.

I will be making Professor Knottenbelt aware of this thread and I am sure he will be interested to read the libelous comments made by both you and Esther. You have no evidence that proves he was wrong in his findings, you lie that he told you he made mistakes, or twisted his words to suit yourself at the very least. I find you offensive!

 

[Nick Altena]

PMSL



I actually think it must have been you and your friends who stopped thinking... a very long time ago. Your 'management' suggestions are incredulous, there are 14 pages because people just cant understand what you must have hit your head on to be spouting such absolute stupidity.

exactly what part do you not understand and find dangerous statement ?

You must also understand that there are a great deal of intelligent, knowledgable, experienced people on here

Yes, someone mentioned that earlier, and that just amazes me even more that no eyes have opened here on the statements of the man that I should not call...

When so intelligent as you say...I think as perhaps less intelligent person...
They then must know from the beginning that it is nonses this PA is comming to you're hands and then distroy you're liver....

There is a lot more wrong in the information you get in England... but by this one i expect you .... as an intelligent person ... had to ask your self questions about this persons " proven fact" how the hell he prove that?

You also know as a intelligent person with intrest in the subject...there is still NO methode to prove that only the ragwort has causes the liver damage , unless you give youre horse a overdose and/or only ragwort

You also has to know as such a intelligent person that there have been no 6000 dead horses specifically for this study (looking at the cost)

who have no problem investigating and researching new theories, people are always willing to try new things and explore new techniques,

I did not notice that in most of the reactions...
The most reactions from al those intelligent people here i notice is about the poor english and the announcment to go away.. is that intelligent ?
Is that the way the intelligent writers here teach people in what they think is wrong ?

but your arguments are so flawed and dangerous, you have of course angered a lot of people on here.

Again...were exactly is the dangerous part we wrote , qoute it for us so whe understand

I suggest you go and play with your catterpillars and deal with the lamanitic horses that you get from putting them on lush fertillised grazing, far more risky in my opinion than pulling up highly toxic weeds... FACT not MYTH!

Yehhh...that's a verry intelligent answer !! ... oeps sorry... advice....
May i ask ? how old are you exactly ?

 

[Nick Altena]

I tink Esther is giveing you a lot answers on youre questions tomorrow.
But i have a few for you reading this post.

Show to me exactly when and where Professor Knottenbelt insisted that 1000 horses died a year of ragwort poisoning, not as an 'estimate' but as an 'absolute'.

Do you know HOW he get his numbers ?

You claim that there are only 13 cases approximately of equine ragwort toxicity per annum in the UK. Do you not feel this is a deeply misleading figure, when post mortems are EXTREMELY uncommon in this country? You don't find it conceivable that a large number of horses dying of liver disease are as a result of ragwort poisoning? Really?

Agian... do you know how he get his numbers ?

Please link directly to the scientific study you claim you have undertaken which proves entirely that it is impossible for the harmful toxins to be passed on through skin.

Nobody say its not posible.... but not in the way HE did it prove that its passed tough the skin (but that's maybe incorrectly described by me because the languageproblem)
But on the other site...
Do you know HOW the PA's work in the body ?

Oh, and personal vendettas, unsubstantiated, ongoing attacks aimed at a person or company are actually not allowed on the forum.

Correct...
I hope you also have see that same kind of info about a personal attack on members on this site ?

To the point:
I don't write thing's that I am not sure of .... there is evidence
It's mentioned before... mail the person just like we did....and ask him your self.
(we say this because it is also not allowed to place (parts of) privat mail on the internet, but you know that also of course )

Its also not a personal vendatta , somebody is trying to tell you and the other people here about the things that do not fit because it was based on wrong research... and yes ... in thase case.....the man who did that wrong research this Proff
He also did good research, we know !! but not tis one.
But this is one you and many other people believe also... because its comming from... ?

I don't honestly care how many horses ragwort kills. One is too many. I will continue to ensure that animals in my care do not have access to it.

Qoute me were one of us say you must stop doing this...

 

[Nick Altena]

I tink Esther is giving you a lot answers on youre questions tomorrow.
But i have a few for you reading this post.

Do you know HOW he get his numbers ?

Nobody say its not posible that skin can take somethink up.... but not in the way HE did it prove correct that the PA's passed trough the skin (but that's maybe incorrectly described by me because the languageproblem)
But on the other site...
Do you know HOW the PA's work in the body ?

I hope you also have see that same kind of info about a personal attack on members on this site ?

To the point:
I don't write thing's that I am not sure of .... there is evidence
It's mentioned before... mail the person just like we did....and ask him your self.
(we say this because it is also not allowed to place (parts of) privat mail on the internet, but you know that also of course )

Its also not a personal vendatta , somebody is trying to tell you and the other people here about the things that do not fit because it was based on wrong research... and yes ... in thase case.....the man who did that wrong research this Proff
He also did good research, we know !! but not tis one.
But this is one you and many other people believe also... because its comming from... ?



Quote me were one of us say you must stop doing the things youer are doing...

 

[Nick Altena]

Sorry...
I was trying to restore /edit my type errors and then I saw that parts of the quotes were gone.
I thought it was a to long post or so that give these quote errors...so get away with all quotes.
Now i see i have simply put on the wrong button... not the edit but the quote
Maybe the mod can remove this last 2 post ?

 

[rhino]

Do you know HOW he get his numbers ?

No, but as you won't direct me to where he makes these claims, I don't even know he did get these numbers, let alone how any studies were undertaken.

You still haven't answered whether the claims made that ragwort only kills around 13 horses in the UK per annum are in your opinion likely to be a gross underestimation. Lots of horses die from liver disease, very very few have post mortems. Prove to me that ragwort is responsible for so few deaths.

What, you can't? Don't you think it is worrying that in fact you have NO idea how many deaths in the UK are as a direct result of ragwort toxicity?

Nobody say its not posible.... but not in the way HE did it prove that its passed tough the skin (but that's maybe incorrectly described by me because the languageproblem)
But on the other site...
Do you know HOW the PA's work in the body ?

Right, so it is possible? I'm entirely unsurprised by that.

What way did he 'prove' they could be passed through skin? Prove, not suggest, as we like facts here, not hearsay, don't we?

I have a basic understanding yes, but if you'd like to steer me towards any relevant, concise articles explaining it I will endeavour to read them.

Correct...
I hope you also have see that same kind of info about a personal attack on members on this site ?

I have made no posts which I feel are rude or that contravene any terms and conditions. I have not commented on your language, as it would be deeply hypocritical of me to do so. Written English is not an easy language to master, and the time I have spent in the Netherlands, carrying out training for WHO personnel, has always left me feeling in awe of the level of spoken English.

To the point:
I don't write thing's that I am not sure of .... there is evidence
It's mentioned before... mail the person just like we did....and ask him your self.
(we say this because it is also not allowed to place (parts of) privat mail on the internet, but you know that also of course )

I appreciate that, and you are quite right to do so, but it is you and your friends making accusations, and therefore it is up to you to provide proof. I am not going to waste the time of someone when you have failed to provide me with any evidence of him deliberately trying to mislead anyone.

Its also not a personal vendatta , somebody is trying to tell you and the other people here about the things that do not fit because it was based on wrong research... and yes ... in thase case.....the man who did that wrong research this Proff
He also did good research, we know !! but not tis one.
But this is one you and many other people believe also... because its comming from... ?

Show me the research please. I appreciate you have cut and pasted the entire reference list from your website, but to be perfectly honest I find plant science terminally dull, and would rather just see the key pieces of evidence you repeatedly claim to have.

rhino

 

[rhino]

Maybe the mod can remove this last 2 post ?

It is an unmoderated forum... Don't worry about mistakes, it's late and I'm sure I've made plenty too.

 

[LittleWildOne]

My head hurts !
Nick and Ester, everything you are trying to LECTURE to us about ragwort....we already know.
Implying that we don't care, or that we deliberately feed ragwort to our horses is extremely rude, patronising and completely uncalled for.
Trying to LECTURE to us about how to manage our grazing is, to an extent dangerous, due to the very high risk of horses contracting laminitis.
Are you aware of the causes and effects of grass induced laminitis.
Horse owners here in the UK try our best to manage the land upon which our horses graze. We do not all OWN the fields we use, but manage the control of ragwort as best as we can. A field can be completely free from ragwort, while the SURROUNDING land is full of the stuff. This surrounding land DOES NOT belong to horse owners, but to local authoroties (councils), (some) farmers, and other people who do not own horses. It is THEY who do not control the ragwort on roadside verges, wasteland, set-aside land, etc, NOT horse owners.
I'm sure you are perfectly aware of HOW ragwort seed dispersal happens, so, WE remove ragwort only to have seeds blown in the wind or carried on the fur of wildlife INTO our grazing.
Perhaps you should target your LECTURING at every council and land owner in the UK and tell THEM how to "manage" ragwort, not horse owners on ONE forum.
I'm not being rude.....BUT.....your posts, which are often very long, repetitive, and tedious, appear to be implying that we are stupid !
You are saying the same thing over and over and over again, which is why people are getting annoyed. Your posts are making us out to be idiots so stop it now.
Yes, it would be lovely to graze our horses in "perfect" squares of lush green grass with a dense sward which is relatively weed free, but the majority of horses and ponies here in the UK are BRITISH NATIVE BREEDS AND THEIR CROSSES (part breds, eg Tb x native as one example). Our NATIVE breeds have evolved over thousands of years to survive on POOR uncultivated pasture, NOT, "perfect" lush, weed free fertilized grass. Please take the time to read up on laminitis.
(By "Native" breeds, I include - Shetland, Dartmoor, Exmoor, Welsh, Fell, Dales, Highland, New Forest and Connemara ponies, and also Shire, Clydesdale, Suffolk Punch, Irish Draught, Cleveland Bay, Hackney and even Thoroughbred horses).
Oh, and farmers here who grow hay (or more commonly, haylage, due to our climate) SPRAY THEIR HAY/HAYLAGE FIELDS WITH HERBICIDES TO ERADICATE WEEDS FROM THE CROP .

I am another who suspects your main agenda is to blacken the name of Professor Knottenbelt.

Sorry UK people, I HAD to say that