ragwort I have had it with the myths

[EstherYoung]

My head hurts.....

But from one Esther to another, I can confirm that we strongly suspect that our old TB who we lost last year had ragwort induced liver problems. However, we never got him biopsied and he didn't have a PM, as our vet was happy to take the pragmatic approach of 'if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....'. We didn't see the point in putting an old boy through an invasive procedure when the blood test showed his liver was kaputt and it wasn't going to change the way we treated him. Our old boy therefore won't appear on any stats and, as I would strongly suggest that we're not alone in not getting a biopsy or a PM on a liver damaged horse, neither will many others.

He was a tough old booger though, as although he was never cured, he pulled back from the acute attack and lived another four years before we called it a day. Although his liver problems weren't entirely responsible for the decision to call it a day, they were a heavily weighted factor as it meant that treatment options for his other conditions were limited.

 

[Nick Altena]

No, but as you won't direct me to where he makes these claims, I don't even know he did get these numbers, let alone how any studies were undertaken.

When you don't even know HOW he get is bumbers... how do you know they are correct.
We know how he did this , otherwise we wrote not that this is not a proper investigation.

What, you can't? Don't you think it is worrying that in fact you have NO idea how many deaths in the UK are as a direct result of ragwort toxicity?

No, I think its worrying that a professor is gambeling in his research...
That is something we al can do... makes us that all a Proffessor ?
How much more did he gamble .....

What way did he 'prove' they could be passed through skin? Prove, not suggest, as we like facts here, not hearsay, don't we?

he shaved a rat and used a bearing ointment that is absorbed through the skin

I have made no posts which I feel are rude or that contravene any terms and conditions. I have not commented on your language, as it would be deeply hypocritical of me to do so. Written English is not an easy language to master, and the time I have spent in the Netherlands, carrying out training for WHO personnel, has always left me feeling in awe of the level of spoken English.

And i thank you for that , but a yot of you here is rude and give that comment instead of substantive comments.
That's not the way we think and work, this make us sad....

 

[alsiola]

...the man that I should not call...

Beware Professor Voldemort.

 

[touchstone]

And i thank you for that , but a yot of you here is rude and give that comment instead of substantive comments.
That's not the way we think and work, this make us sad....

Keeping prof Knottenbelt out of it, what I think is rude is the assumption that we are all hysterical about ragwort and ignorant about pasture management and need lecturing on it!

I think most here are fully aware that a dense sward can help suppress weeds, however allowing grass to grow to 6cm as per your recommendation would leave my laminitic pony crippled.

Far easier to keep the grass well grazed with sheep and control weeds as they appear. If you think this is bad management then so be it, and I agree that if I was cultivating perfect pasture it wouldn't be ideal, but it is ideal for my horses which is what matters.

 

[Murphy88]

When you don't even know HOW he get is bumbers... how do you know they are correct.
We know how he did this , otherwise we wrote not that this is not a proper investigation.

No, I think its worrying that a professor is gambeling in his research...
That is something we al can do... makes us that all a Proffessor ?
How much more did he gamble .....

he shaved a rat and used a bearing ointment that is absorbed through the skin.

Ah, so now Derek Knottenbelt has made up even more of his research? He is a Professor because he is a world expert in opthalmology, dermatology, endocrinology and neonatology, amongst other things, and has done more for animal welfare (and human welfare through his charity) than virtually any other vet - in the field of veterinary medicine, we generally do things like peer-review research, so I think we can safely say that Prof K's research wouldn't have been published had it not been accurate.

Feel free to keep trying to damage the reputation of Prof K, you will be going a long time with no success - he is a legend, who probably knows more about horses than the rest of us on this thread put together, and those of us who actually know him and have been taught by him will never believe he is anything other than a God of veterinary medicine!

 

[EstherHegt]

ignorance of real knowledge kills far more horses, then ragwort!

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Strange isn't it, how a internationally respected expert like Professor Knottenbelt, who has done so much for horse welfare, can find himself the object of a smear campaign by those with another agenda.
When you insult Professor Knottenbelt, you insult us all.

 

[touchstone]

ignorance of real knowledge kills far more horses, then ragwort!

As does putting laminitics on lush pasture

 

[cptrayes]

Yes they did....



Oke, a question again
why the hate for this plant in recent years (afther "his" studies) while the same plant growing plenty in your country for centuries?
(i am 53 and from my 16the so far I visit England every year and have see al lot ragwort in all those years... )
Did the horse onwers not know this plant before ?
Keep people than horses all these years without knowing what is and is not good for them?
That say a lot....

Ragwort has been listed in legislation in this country since at least 1959 as a plant that needs control in areas grazed by animals. I'm reasonably sure "he" was a child when that legislation went through parliament.

??? you do not care how you actually manage your land ???
The most important point if you keep a horse???
As studies have proven that pull out plants by hand (or "special" ragwort-fork) does not work and brings you more harm than it solves you have no intrest and do not care ? It makes no difference to you ??

Your arrogance is astounding.

I live in an area which is heavily subsidised by EU funds (which I do not claim) to ensure that we keep fertility levels low in order to provide the habitats required by rare ground nesting birds and brown hare. I have also worked on my 12 acres for 20 years to ensure that it remains free of ragwort by pulling it up by hand and it does not seem to matter how many times I tell you that I have NEVER had a plant regrow in the same spot, you just do not want to hear it. I therefore own a perfect wildflower hill meadow with an incredible variety of plants including natural wormers, in which my horses wander freely and pick and choose what plants they need at that point in time. They also have room to gallop madly about, like a horse, which they would not have if I followed Esther's advice to section my grazing and rotate it.

Your way is not the only way, and I personally do not consider it the best way.

Is there a controlling authority or label in England for ragwort free hay ?
We do have this in de Netherlands to solve this problem. (thanks to Esther and other people)

No, we need one. If you want to help us set one up that would be great, do it. But that isn't what this thread is about, is it? Not a word said about how she achieved that, how we might implement it in this country or whether it would even be possible. Meanwhile people like me buy from reputable sources, and I personally only buy what I have seen grown.

Aside from that suggestion, the reason that we are completely uninterested in what you are saying is that it makes no difference whether Knottenbelt is right or wrong.

We all agree ragwort is poisonous and needs to be removed or prevented. We know how to manage horse pasture, thankyou, and we do not need lecturing by you and Esther in how to do that. NOTHING is going to change whether Prof K has over-egged the pudding or not and therefore your agenda on here has to be to bring him into disrepute and nothing else.

 

[Clava]

CP - you are lucky to never have a plant regrow in the same spot, as I posted earlier I have seen them do this (and more than several plants in the old spot!) but it entirely depends at what stage of the growth the plant is pulled, at the rosette stage can be a disaster.

 

[cptrayes]

ignorance of real knowledge kills far more horses, then ragwort!

Yes, Esther, but the "real knowledge" that you are trying to impart to us, that Prof K has overstated the danger of ragwort, will not save one single horse. So why are you even writing about it?

If he had UNDERstated the danger, that would be different. But there is no harm in treating a commonly found poisonous plant as more poisonous than it is.

The only poison I think we need to worry about on this thread is in your attitude to Prof K. and I wonder where it comes from. Can you tell me - have you or someone close to you ever had a horse treated by Professor Knottenbelt or by Leahurst Hospital, and, if so, did that horse survive?

 

[cptrayes]

CP - you are lucky to never have a plant regrow in the same spot, as I posted earlier I have seen them do this (and more than several plants in the old spot!) but it entirely depends at what stage of the growth the plant is pulled, at the rosette stage can be a disaster.

Yes, Clava, we established that earlier. I pull grown plants, not rosettes, and I don't think 20 years of pulling can really be called "luck", do you? ANother poster said that they had found the same from pulling grown plants. Clearing rosettes by pulling is obviously not a good idea, as I acknowledged earlier.


There is always weedkiller if people are having problems controlling ragwort by hand. I do my docks and thistles with a spray because those you can't pull.

 

[touchstone]

CP - you are lucky to never have a plant regrow in the same spot, as I posted earlier I have seen them do this (and more than several plants in the old spot!) but it entirely depends at what stage of the growth the plant is pulled, at the rosette stage can be a disaster.

I'm another that hasn't had ragwort regrow after pulling, even at the rosette stage. I do use a trowel/weeder to dig out the rosettes and it seems to work fine

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I'm another that hasn't had ragwort regrow after pulling, even at the rosette stage. I do use a trowel/weeder to dig out the rosettes and it seems to work fine

I use a 'rag fork' when the plant has flowered but not seeded and the plants do not regrow as the fork pulls them out root and all. I do get more plants as surrounding fields are not treated at all and are left to seed. These fields are plastered with ragwort so it is inevitable that seeds land and grow on my pasture. I set aside rag pulling weekend the same time every year and just go out and pull it, it works!

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I use a 'rag fork' when the plant has flowered but not seeded and the plants do not regrow as the fork pulls them out root and all. I do get more plants as surrounding fields are not treated at all and are left to seed. These fields are plastered with ragwort so it is inevitable that seeds land and grow on my pasture. I set aside rag pulling weekend the same time every year and just go out and pull it, it works!

Forgot to say that I usually try to do this after a little wet weather as the ragwort comes away easier.

 

[SaharaS]

is a smear campaign against a person/individual not against forum rules? ie against dr K???

was thinking as you seem to be setting up a self preservation society for ragwort & its lovers, please leave an address and we can forward all our unwanted ragwort to you???

Clearly we responding here all understand and deal with the dangers of ragwort but the frankly irresponsible op & cronies are putting forward an argument that is confused and therefore endangering new owners & new horse persons who might stumble upon this thread, not read or understand the entire thread due to alot of garbled mumbo jumbo and make their decision that its no big deal. It is a big deal and it is a non instant and cumulative big deal-welfare is hopefully our joint aim here or so op and cronies claim. so yes hate things that you see as myths and legend, but don't jeopardise welfare by imposing your questionings on others.

Sheep eat ragwort yes and merrily so..but they are still very much suseptible to its horrific & crippling effects-just as others have mentioned are masked by the longevity of most non -pet sheep.

I have a very personal issue with ragwort from a different angle as well as the obvious horse/animal welfare point of view.I do wonder if many auto immune conditions & neurological conditions in horses /animals and humans for eg ME, fibromyalgia,lupus etc may not have links to exposure whether it be as a result of handling the weed or by it entering the body via the food chain. I suffer from 2 of these conditions after a spinal injury with complications. I know my limits & how best to avoid flare ups & triggers so can controll my day to day & acheive the most i can with minimal pain/numbing.. yet have a flare up if have come into contact with ragwort.I was told it was probably that both conditions were underlying (possibly my genetic makeup tho not inherrited and exacerbated by the accident and for example if i have a good day painwise i can pull up ragwort for half an hour or an hour and will have an agonising flare up for days or weeks after. yet at other times I can pull eg nettles milk thistle and other herbal weeds which i use for herbal supplements and animal self medication-(zoopharmacognosy) yet can have no effect from the same or longer time spent doing so - and I don't simply mean the stiffness you may get from weeding & physical work. I did an hour of ragwort pulling last week and have spent every morning since unable to get up without a struggle, straightening my legs with my arms..joint stiffness to the point I feel as tho i am contained by an over tight harness or gaffer tape-it took me 3 hours to physically get myself strong enough to get out of bed & get out to get the animals done. yet you say no /little/minimal effect to humans from picking/exposure. Really. I know my catalysts, this is one-it cannot be coincidental as this is now year 8 of my experience since my accident and I've been surrounded by horses/farm animals since birth so am by no means a newcomer to any of this.

I think your posts have such an element of confusion that they could pose a threat to animals/newcomers who read this which is in my humble opinion very irresponsible. I know most on here are highly intelligent & incredibly experienced & very well informed, yet I cannot guarantee every reader who stumbles across this will be the same and will have the surrounding & background experience to make sense of it and a safe sensible informed decision which will in turn directly affect animals in their care/their neighbours animals.

Ragwort is found for a very good example on moorland, commons & hills(say welsh/yorkshire/dartmoor etc etc national parkland) as well as on railways and pasture and owned land whether that with scarce grazing or not. it is deadly wherever it is and by its very nature spreads itself so you need not fear its demise.

Sheep/horses/goats/cattle whether wild or not will either leave it or eat it on purpose or inadvertantly when dried either in feed/hay or simply when clipped by passing hooves when it then becomes palletable.

It is cumulative toxicity at all times.end of.

If you have seen situations where animals willingly eat the green ragwort plant, even on lush pasture(owned or wild) consider that they are using it as a toxin to purge their system/to make them selves sick/die/rid their body of the issue they are trying to self medicate for-possibly even underlying ragwort poisoning...????

Animals instinctively know toxins from safe herbs and if no safe herbs are available, will resort to poisonous toxins such as ragwort, or say rhododendron for goats which can be fatal also.

My thoughts on this are that those animals seeking out ragwort & willingly eating it may very well be trying to rid their system of internal pain/discomfort that is as yet invisible to the observer -another take on the phrase natural selection. so whatever your issues are with us and the world in general..and while I appreciate it is important to learn new things on a daily basis, don't come here spreading peace love & ragwort & love to all ragwort kind....we don't need it and we don't need you.neither do any unfortunate naive vulnerable newcomers. Yes knowledge is a wonderful valuable thing, but dangerous in the wrong hands...those hands i might add belong to you.

Now off you scuttle back under your bridge where you belong.

Wanders of to inflict wounding & pain on as many ragwort plants as I can find!

 

[Nick Altena]

Keeping prof Knottenbelt out of it, what I think is rude is the assumption that we are all hysterical about ragwort and ignorant about pasture management and need lecturing on it!

I completely agree this one !!
Spend time and perhaps money in education about management for horse pastures

I think most here are fully aware that a dense sward can help suppress weeds, however allowing grass to grow to 6cm as per your recommendation would leave my laminitic pony crippled.
Far easier to keep the grass well grazed with sheep and control weeds as they appear. If you think this is bad management then so be it, and I agree that if I was cultivating perfect pasture it wouldn't be ideal, but it is ideal for my horses which is what matters.

But i'm not agree this one
Do you know what stressed grass is ?
I think...its better to put a laminitic horse only a very limited time at 6 cm grass and the rest of the day in a paddock with good quality hay.
Stressed grass is not good for laminitic animals....so i dont think (know/have learned) that it is not ideal for youre horses

 

[Nick Altena]

Ah, so now Derek Knottenbelt has made up even more of his research? He is a Professor because he is a world expert in opthalmology, dermatology, endocrinology and neonatology, amongst other things, and has done more for animal welfare (and human welfare through his charity) than virtually any other vet - in the field of veterinary medicine, we generally do things like peer-review research, so I think we can safely say that Prof K's research wouldn't have been published had it not been accurate.

Feel free to keep trying to damage the reputation of Prof K, you will be going a long time with no success - he is a legend, who probably knows more about horses than the rest of us on this thread put together, and those of us who actually know him and have been taught by him will never believe he is anything other than a God of veterinary medicine!

Some one here say something about the intelligent people on this forum.

I keep it short this time:

You have google in the UK ?
Then you can search on

Brauchli J., J. Luthy, U. Zweifel & C. Schlatter. 1982. Pyrrolizidine alkaloids from Symphytum officinale L. and their percutaneous absorption in
rats. Experientia (Basel) 38: 1085-1087.

Maybe when you read if you read this kind of research you understand that the PA's of ragwort CAN NOT be poison when come in the body by the skin , a fact your proff. also has to know....

In short :
PA's like the one comming by ragwort are poisonous as it passes through your digestive

If the PAs of ragwort pass through your skin if you hit them or pull out, it is not comming in your digestive system.
Your proff has to know that fact as a world expert in opthalmology, dermatology, endocrinology and neonatology

 

[Clava]

Yes, Clava, we established that earlier. I pull grown plants, not rosettes, and I don't think 20 years of pulling can really be called "luck", do you? ANother poster said that they had found the same from pulling grown plants. Clearing rosettes by pulling is obviously not a good idea, as I acknowledged earlier.


There is always weedkiller if people are having problems controlling ragwort by hand. I do my docks and thistles with a spray because those you can't pull.

Sorry, I must have missed your reply. I wasn't however, refering to pulling rosettes as I doubt that is even possible, but digging them out - any tiny piece of root left will regrow and getting all of it is very hard as the long tap root breaks easily. not something I do now (only pull full plants) but something I was advised to do.

 

[touchstone]

I completely agree this one !!
Spend time and perhaps money in education about management for horse pastures





But i'm not agree this one
Do you know what stressed grass is ?
I think...its better to put a laminitic horse only a very limited time at 6 cm grass and the rest of the day in a paddock with good quality hay.
Stressed grass is not good for laminitic animals....so i dont think (know/have learned) that it is not ideal for youre horses

Oh my word, I'm getting angry now! How condescending!!!

I am fully aware of what stressed grass is thankyou, and prefer my horse to be able to nibble small quantities of higher fructan (aka stressed grass) than be able to consume vast quantities of lower fructan grass over a shorter period of time - tried that once and my horse developed raised pulses and footiness, so I will stick to what has been working for the past fifteen years with mine thankyou very much.

 

[cptrayes]

Maybe when you read if you read this kind of research you understand that the PA's of ragwort CAN NOT be poison when come in the body by the skin , a fact your proff. also has to know....

SO WHAT?

Nick, you pull ragwort without gloves on if you want to. I do. But what on earth is the problem with other people pulling ragwort using gloves? It does not matter whether it is true that ragwort can poison through the skin or not and we don't care whether it is true or not. Wearing gloves to pull it hurts nobody, and it must be pulled, as we have all agreed, because it is poisonous to horses.

 

[Dolcé]

OK, so again nothing I didn't already know BUT it clearly states that the effects on humans through skin ingestion is still being researched and are at the moment unknown! I think huge apologies are due to Professor Knottenbelt who you have seriously bad mouthed on this thread for something that hasn't been proven as being wrong.

This post was referring to this link http://edepot.wur.nl/167548 posted by Esther as the latest research, I will repeat, this clearly states that the effects of toxins through the skin are still being researched and so far unknown! It would seem you only take the bits that agree with your beliefs from each piece of research you quote.

In the word of another recent poster this is getting boring! You just will not listen to any other point of view and you are patronising beyond belief. I trust you will not go into teaching or lecturing as you are causing more harm than good to your 'campaign'.

 

[Nick Altena]

My head hurts.....

But from one Esther to another, I can confirm that we strongly suspect that our old TB who we lost last year had ragwort induced liver problems.

With post like this ... i alway's ask myself questions.
This horse must have token a lot of ragwort (it takes a while before you see symptoms)
HOW is it posible that a owner of a horse or the person carrying the animal care did not know the danger of this plant when the media etc. spend so much attention to tis ?
HOW is it posible that they don't control the hay they give the horses when they do know this problem. or in the rare case the horse eats ragwort fresh control the pasture and the horse what it is eating in that pasture ?

Oke...in this case its a few years back (although almost every farmer in the past already know this plant, in Holland also called the yellow danger mentioned by older farmers )

Its not personal to you Esther, maybe you trusted someone else's knowledge...
But there are so many of this stories and i can't understand this.
Everybody growing up know and learn what he or see can eat...or not...
But a lot of people do not investigate such matters for their animals before or after they buy them....

 

[cptrayes]

With post like this ... i alway's ask myself questions.
This horse must have token a lot of ragwort (it takes a while before you see symptoms)
HOW is it posible that a owner of a horse or the person carrying the animal care did not know the danger of this plant when the media etc. spend so much attention to tis ?
HOW is it posible that they don't control the hay they give the horses when they do know this problem. or in the rare case the horse eats ragwort fresh control the pasture and the horse what it is eating in that pasture ?

Oke...in this case its a few years back (although almost every farmer in the past already know this plant, in Holland also called the yellow danger mentioned by older farmers )

Its not personal to you Esther, maybe you trusted someone else's knowledge...
But there are so many of this stories and i can't understand this.
Everybody growing up know and learn what he or see can eat...or not...
But a lot of people do not investigate such matters for their animals before or after they buy them....

You are pretty ignorant about the effects of liver toxicity in horses, and how long it can take after ingestion and before symptoms are shown that would cause anyone to question the liver, aren't you Nick? Can I suggest you stop writing insulting posts to owners of dead horses on a subject that you do not know enough about?

In this country we buy and sell horses and have no idea what the horse has ingested in a previous home.

Can you also please tell me the exactly amounts of green and dried ragwort a horse would have to eat to die of liver failure? How long after the ingestion would death take place? Given that it is cumulative in its effect can you also please provide a breakdown of the amounts ingested in what frequency over what time period that could cause liver failure?

One more question. If you own horses, do you shake out every single bit of forage before you feed it to your horses? And if not, how do you know that it is ragwort free? Please don't tell me it's certificated, because certificated or not, unless you personally saw it in the field just before it was cut, and walked every inch of that field, you haven't actually got a clue whether there is any ragwort in it or not.

 

[Nick Altena]

SO WHAT?

Nick, you pull ragwort without gloves on if you want to. I do. But what on earth is the problem with other people pulling ragwort using gloves? It does not matter whether it is true that ragwort can poison through the skin or not and we don't care whether it is true or not. Wearing gloves to pull it hurts nobody, and it must be pulled, as we have all agreed, because it is poisonous to horses.

SO WHAT ?
DON"T CARE ?

a lot of people by that statement of poisoning by skin shots pretty panicked, perhaps for example because they knew that their child had picked a lot of this flower without gloves ?

Gloves you can certainly wear , no one that says that you should not (perhaps necessary also for their allergies)
But the reason that these proff gave is not true and caused unnecessary panic.
Just the same by the figure more than 6000 died horses in a year by this plant.... its not true and caussed panic.

course there is a danger of ragwort ... mainly in hay ... but not in size as he has brought

But as a proff. with these kinds of statements out of which he should know as a specialist that is not true .... well ... I find that quite a bit.
You apparently don't care this , okay, that's your mentality.
But why then a response from your side if you do not interesting this?

A lot of people find this kind of business a misleading point, you don't expect that from a proffessor
And it is hoped that not all studies are done in this manner by which proffessor therefore
Gambling and not thorough studies is not protect anyone long....

 

[cptrayes]

Nick I don't think anyone has been harmed by believing ragwort to be more poisonous than it is. How about you go and worry about something more important, like why pig welfare standards are so much lower in your country than ours, and why your farmers are so slow to adopt the EU welfare standards that most of our farmers have already had on board for some time?

 

[EstherYoung]

I don't know why I'm even biting, but for info our horse was 25yo when he died. We know that he had ingested ragwort on at least three occasions during his life, and unfortunately one of those was with us: despite pulling for hours and hours we didn't clear their new winter grazing field of ragwort quickly enough and he ate some dried dead stalks, which is what triggered the acute attack. We suspect that his liver was already damaged and the last bit he ate tipped him over the edge. As I say, he came back from the acute attack, but because his liver was damaged it meant he couldn't tolerate other medication so our options were limited when he became lame.

Ragwort creates a time bomb, and you just don't know how much tolerance an individual horse has left for it.

ps I've no idea whether ragwort can be ingested through the skin but it sure as heck is an irritant to skin so gloves are a very good idea.

 

[Nick Altena]

You are pretty ignorant about the effects of liver toxicity in horses, and how long it can take after ingestion and before symptoms are shown that would cause anyone to question the liver, aren't you Nick? Can I suggest you stop writing insulting posts to owners of dead horses on a subject that you do not know enough about?
In this country we buy and sell horses and have no idea what the horse has ingested in a previous home.

Please read better
I also have written that it was not personal !!
It's a story we still heare many time's and i don't understand how this come.
Yes... maybe se trust the onwner of a previus home... but than this question is about that person... not this Eshter ...which was then saddled with a already sick horse....

Can you also please tell me the exactly amounts of green and dried ragwort a horse would have to eat to die of liver failure?

No i can't for sure... yes i can for as far as we know...
I also have google but I also have had a disqusion about this with a healing service in the Netherlands who post remarkeble incorrect information on the site and yes they admid later it was a wrong calculation and thus wrong information they publiced !

Beside... the info you're asking was given before in this line and you had not ask this if you had read the given links....:

I quote a little part from Eshter's site :

Only if an animal eats relatively large amounts of PA containing plants it will show symptoms of Ragwort poisoning. Exact amounts are not known, but are estimated to be somewhere between 1 and 10% of an animal’s body weight. (14, 15, 22) For a 500 kg horse, this would come down to eating between 250 and 2500 full grown Common ragwort shoots, which are approximately 20 grams when dried.

You find the source data (14, 15 22 ) on the same site.

How long after the ingestion would death take place? Given that it is cumulative in its effect can you also please provide a breakdown of the amounts ingested in what frequency over what time period that could cause liver failure?

Nobody can answer this for sure because no one can certainly say so much, so long, that symptoms
Its depending from a lot of factors on animal and quality of the ragwort.

(nice try , but i'm also not that stupid....)

One more question. If you own horses, do you shake out every single bit of forage before you feed it to your horses? And if not, how do you know that it is ragwort free? Please don't tell me it's certificated, because certificated or not, unless you personally saw it in the field just before it was cut, and walked every inch of that field, you haven't actually got a clue whether there is any ragwort in it or not.

Yes i shake out and control the hay we given to our horses , 5 in total at this moment , every day just before we give it.
What i don't trust or want i pull out, verry simple.

Yes i know and control the fields where we buy the hay , bit it is impossible to be absolutely sure there is nothing in it.

There is also not enough and therefore we also must buy a part of the hay by a wholesale.
And yes its certificated hay when we buy by a wholesale , but we still shacking it out every day.
At day they are walking in the pasture....there is NO ragwort for sure , i know because i control this every week.

And believe me or not... i do have a clue what ragwort is and how it looks in different stage

 

[misterjinglejay]

Most HHO readers and UK horse owners know what every stage of ragwort growth looks like, from the tiniest leaf (before it even reaches rosette stage, it's a different shade of green from most pasture plants) right up to the two year old plant.

It's covered in all our horse care exams - not in a panicy horsterical way, but in a calm, 'knowledge is power' way.

When buying horses, most of us, I would imagine, try and find out about their previous management (including possible ragwort ingestion).

It is frequently written about in equine literature, and obviously mentioned on forums etc.

We all check our pastures and hay supply ( I had 30 5ft round bales sent back to source as dried ragwort was found in a couple).

None of us panic about it, we just get on with removing it, and trying to keep our horses healthy.

Quite frankly, so what if we're overcautious, it's us doing the work. None of us are complaining too much about having to pull ragwort, we just get out there and do it (gloves or not). There's no hysteria about it, it's just another task to do.

We have a saying in this country; 'better safe than sorry' and where ragwort is concerned, I think we all agree on that. So, why don't you let us get on with our quiet, non hysterical horse care?

Right, must don all-in-one space age type suit, breathing apparatus, and obviously, high viz (just in case no one can see me) and go tackle the demon weed

 

[Fellewell]

According to WHW younger plants taste less bitter than mature plants and can be eaten. So I will still pull rosettes, even if I see them in other peoples fields.

I am that hysterical British person!