ragwort I have had it with the myths

The whole thing just stinks of scientific agenda.......why make so much fuss about a non issue?

I'm afraid this is just a research group assuming (hoping) that there is hysteria about ragwort in the UK after seeing some articles in the press (there isn't) and using said 'hysteria' to push their research and discredit another rival group's work. Seems strange to do it on a public forum though....wouldn't have though research grant councils would be interested.......

Best place to do it is to keep publishing in peer review scientific journals people.
 
Obvious facts: Nick & Esther are pig - ignorant about the scientific method. A lot of the stuff they are disputing as not arising scientifically I.e. coming via controlled scientific experiments, have actually been gleaned, quite properly from clinical observation. For example, ragwort is an observable skin irritant. Doubtless, Prof K has not done controlled studies on this, but why should he need to? It is self-evident.
Second, the N & E show keep harping on about 6500 deaths per annum not being verifiable. But I am sure that figure comes from a quite accurate extrapolation. Sadly, the majority of ragwort attributable deaths are never reported. Those that are represent a small percentage, thus the annual estimate doubtless is a product of reported deaths times the likely estimated percentage of actual deaths this represents - e.g., 10% reported = 650; actual = 6500.
Go learn about the real process of scientific & clinical practice you two!
 
"But, that's enough for me. Esther was foolish to open this thread. She made the mistake of assuming that this forum was used by people who care about understanding the best ways to look after their animals."

Oh good grief....sounds like someones in the Parelli camp. Thread was interesting up to this point but have now decided not to waste any more of my life on it.

Ive spent years pulling ragwort and will continue to do so.
 
EstherHegt said:
Today I was looking in my archives and I found it remarkable that all the fear in UK came from one source. Everebody did repeat that source, that source is prof Knottenbelt, he is the one who make people afraid! One source!!! But there are much more sources who completely say different things, there is a lot of scientific info about ragwort, we don t 'need need fear and Chinese whispers.
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What bo**ocks! The concern regarding ragwort comes from a LOT of different sources - especially owners whose horses have died as a result of ragwort poisoning!

And if it comes to a choice between believing Prof. Knottenbelt, an OUTSTANDING veterinary surgeon and researcher, - or a bunch of unknown sources - I know who I believe!:rolleyes:
 
pootleperkin said:
Best place to do it is to keep publishing in peer review scientific journals people.
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Absolutily right, my advisors and co authors did! http://www.jakobskruiskruid.com/website/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=49 there they are.

And this http://www.jakobskruiskruid.com/website/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=50 the literature.

And for the people who really want to solve their pasture problem, they can ask here ( in Dutch) but people are nice in Holland, they wil try in English ( look at the post of mr. Justice!) http://www.paardenwetenschap.nl/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=73 your law!!!!
 
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Capriole said:
I havent got a pasture problem, if I see ragwort I remove it, no problem.
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That is good, not a yellow field, you do good pasture managment and your horse don't breath the seeds ( that is a myth) if your horse rolls in pasture there is no skin absorption ( also a myth)
When people believe this myths I wonder why the horses wear no masks, not blankets etc. I also wonder why people dig year after year ragwort, if you know the plant that is not needed. There are not so many dead (6500) horses a year. ( In Liverpool there where none by asking FOI ) I gave that link before! http://www.thepoisongarden.co.uk/blog/blog111011.htm
Best is to recognice ragwort in a early stage, ( rosette) when people dig op mature plants........they did sleep the year before.
 
I don't know anyone who worries about horses inhaling the seeds, or rolling on ragwort. I've never, ever read about these being issues.

Obviously, we all remove ragwort from our pastures, but inhaling the seeds, or skin absorbtion through rolling??

Has anyone ever heard of these 'issues'?
 
misterjay said:
I don't know anyone who worries about horses inhaling the seeds, or rolling on ragwort. I've never, ever read about these being issues.

Obviously, we all remove ragwort from our pastures, but inhaling the seeds, or skin absorbtion through rolling??

Has anyone ever heard of these 'issues'?
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No me neither, if I didnt know better I would say someone has made this up.:rolleyes:
 
pootleperkin said:
The whole thing just stinks of scientific agenda.......why make so much fuss about a non issue?

I'm afraid this is just a research group assuming (hoping) that there is hysteria about ragwort in the UK after seeing some articles in the press (there isn't) and using said 'hysteria' to push their research and discredit another rival group's work. Seems strange to do it on a public forum though....wouldn't have though research grant councils would be interested.......

Best place to do it is to keep publishing in peer review scientific journals people.
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The research councils are very strapped for cash at the moment - almost all research is now on given themes, not the blue-skies funding that used to be available, and if it doesn't affect humans then they just aren't interested.
 
Can you absorb mares urine through the skin?

I'm post-menopausal but always feel better when I've finished mucking out.

It sure as hell smells like I have anyway:D
 
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EstherHegt said:
That is good, not a yellow field, you do good pasture managment and your horse don't breath the seeds ( that is a myth) if your horse rolls in pasture there is no skin absorption ( also a myth)
When people believe this myths I wonder why the horses wear no masks, not blankets etc. I also wonder why people dig year after year ragwort, if you know the plant that is not needed. There are not so many dead (6500) horses a year. ( In Liverpool there where none by asking FOI )
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Now now Esther, I really suggest you stop being deliberately dishonest. May I remind you that the 6500 figure was an estimate arising from a study from the BHS and BEVA, and had nothing to do with Mr Knottenbelt. His claims of between 500 - 1000 and your own website suggests the numbers could be 'more than hundreds' seem to tally quite well, no?

Also I'm sure you are aware that Prof Knottenbelt is often involved in the diagnosis and treatment of equines without them being referred to Leahurst. Ask Liverpool how many horses with sarcoids they have through their doors in a year and the numbers probably won't be that high. Prof Knottenbelt treats hundreds of horses with sarcoids (at least) annually, done thorough photographs and communication with the owner's own vets.

Also, I have no idea why you are now making up your own myths, although it sounds like a fun new task for the HHOers to join in with :rolleyes:

I'll start

Did you know that the mystery surrounding the Bermuda triangle is down to a rare, waterborne form of Ragwort? :rolleyes:

Did you know that if you dance round a ragwort plant in full flower at the time of a full moon you can cure syphilis? :rolleyes:

Did you know that if you make a potion containing ragwort seeds, unicorn horn, bat wings and frogs blood and give it to your OH, they will immediately rush out and buy you a new warmblood and shiny new horsebox? :rolleyes:

Is that the sort of thing you are looking for Esther, since obviously truth is not too important to your cause?
 
Myths eh:cool:

Pumas love ragwort, it's like catnip to them. They seek it out on windy nights so it's easier to inhale.
Once the pumas have 'gorged' themselves with ragwort they become very sociable and spend the rest of the night plaiting horses manes (not very well obviously, big paws:rolleyes:)
Unfortunately long term ragwort abuse leaves pumas photophobic, which is why you never see them in daylight.
 
misterjay said:
I don't know anyone who worries about horses inhaling the seeds, or rolling on ragwort. I've never, ever read about these being issues.

Obviously, we all remove ragwort from our pastures, but inhaling the seeds, or skin absorbtion through rolling??

Has anyone ever heard of these 'issues'?
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No, it's a new one on me too.
 
hairycob said:
Gosh Rhino - where can I get unicorn horn from. I can find all the other ingredients. Wanders off to choose colour of horsebox.
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I can provide some, if you would like to send $500 to my paypal account :cool:

Fellewell said:
Myths eh:cool:

Pumas love ragwort, it's like catnip to them. They seek it out on windy nights so it's easier to inhale.
Once the pumas have 'gorged' themselves with ragwort they become very sociable and spend the rest of the night plaiting horses manes (not very well obviously, big paws:rolleyes:)
Unfortunately long term ragwort abuse leaves pumas photophobic, which is why you never see them in daylight.
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Oh I like that one, and I'm sure Esther will too. That'll promote some hysteria I'm sure :D
 
fatpiggy said:
The research councils are very strapped for cash at the moment - almost all research is now on given themes, not the blue-skies funding that used to be available, and if it doesn't affect humans then they just aren't interested.
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I don't work in veterinary research (for which studies of this kind would come under), so don't know the state of funding at present, but I'm guessing backers like the Wellcome Trust will still be doling out grants - certainly there are grants still being given for veterinary projects such as aspects of EGS research.

What I was getting at is it looks as if Esther and Co's research group might be rivals looking at European funding of some kind ('cos I doubt they apply for any UK based one), and so trying to knock the Liverpool groups' reputation, but as I said, I don't think a UK based equestrian forum is the place to be doing that effectively..... so why bother?

They are just (still) trying to make a storm out of a teacup. They are publishing in peer review journals, so I don't understand why that isn't enough for them. The whole raison d'etre of this thread remains somewhat a mystery to me, as it should be apparent to them that us Brits kind of know about ragwort and how to get rid of it isn't that taxing.
 
rhino said:
Did you know that if you make a potion containing ragwort seeds, unicorn horn, bat wings and frogs blood and give it to your OH, they will immediately rush out and buy you a new warmblood and shiny new horsebox?
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What?! Really?! Barstewards never told me that! And now I've gone and pulled all my ragwort all three plants) and won't have seeds for at least another 2 years. Bugger. Where's the nearest field full or ragwort in Edinburgh?
 
Kallibear said:
What?! Really?! Barstewards never told me that! And now I've gone and pulled all my ragwort all three plants) and won't have seeds for at least another 2 years. Bugger. Where's the nearest field full or ragwort in Edinburgh?
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I'm not sure, we certainly don't have any here (actually I lie, I found one 1st season plant last year)...
 
PHP: 
Oh I like that one, and I'm sure Esther will too. That'll promote some hysteria I'm sure :D[/QUOTE]

Yes she loves an exclamation mark does Esther. She actually used four when she congratulated me on being able to read:D

She and Nick are probably lobbying for the introduction of pumas (and more ragwort)to The Netherlands

What a double act:)

What's going on with my quotes?
 
I havent read all the replies because to be honest, I cant be bothered to read all Esters blah blah blah ragwort-love blah blah blah.... anyway, I dont profess to know anything about the toxicity of ragwort, but I do know that whilst sheep and other ruminants can consume 4 - 6 times their body weight in ragwort before it cases organ faliure and death, where as horses can oly tollerate 0.4% of their total body weight before the toxins cause organ failure and death....thats enough for me to erradicate it from not only my horse paddocks, but also from our stock paddocks too!
 
Mwahahahahaha - today's corpses. I make no apology whatsoever for this deliberate herbicde.

DSC06952.jpg
 
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