ragwort I have had it with the myths

Fellewell said:
The Cinnabar Moth which may or may not be under threat has one 'brood' per year.
Surprise surprise, the adult moths emerge in June (cue Esther et al)

If anyone is in any doubt, the Cinnabar Moth absorbs toxic alkaloids from ragwort to protect itself from predators.

Ragwort is poisonous. We know it, Esther knows it, even the bloody moth knows it.

Those are ragwort facts:rolleyes:

ETA The moth lives almost exclusively on ragwort
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When I was very small, the Cinnabar Moth Caterpillars were all over every plant. I didn't see one caterpillar last year, and though our local plants aren't at the stage of flowering, yet, there still isn't a caterpillar in sight.

Alec.
 
Esther,

Why don't you just answer our questions? See my questions to Ragwort facts earlier. And my earlier questions that have been ignored.

As I said earlier - I am very intelligent, if you are not getting your point across to me you just aren't putting across very well & so don't stand a chance with 99% of the population.

Oh and if you think Caprioles comment was rude & abusive you must have lived a very sheltered life.
 
Alec Swan said:
When I was very small, the Cinnabar Moth Caterpillars were all over every plant. I didn't see one caterpillar last year, and though our local plants aren't at the stage of flowering, yet, there still isn't a caterpillar in sight.

Alec.
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Interesting, perhaps there are regional variations?

If Esther's agenda was to somehow involve the horse community in her research I'd say she went about it in completely the wrong way.
 
hairycob said:
Esther,

Why don't you just answer our questions? See my questions to Ragwort facts earlier. And my earlier questions that have been ignored.

As I said earlier - I am very intelligent, if you are not getting your point across to me you just aren't putting across very well & so don't stand a chance with 99% of the population.

Oh and if you think Caprioles comment was rude & abusive you must have lived a very sheltered life.
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I did answer questions, We gave links with the answer, but didn't answer speculations. There was one question I refused to answer, that was about the dead of my horse with liverfailure, every dead from liverfailure is very nasty.
I gave a lot of reference to scientific literature, I gave the link to the FOI and the cases at Liverpool university. There where NO cases.
The problem in this discussion is, somebody got angry, other readers repeat that anger or fear and didn't look what whe wrote.
In my OP I also told a bit how we solved the problem in the Netherlands and did a suggestion how you can do that also. And I can tell some more, we did really went to the government, I think in UK it is called house of commons. We did asked them to help for ragwort free hay, it is European law now. We also got a lot of help from experts from different university's and the EU panel did investigation about the ragwort problem on facts. The EU panel are specialits and worlwide leading authority's in toxicology. We didn't told anybody ragwort isn't poisonous, we did told not every method is good if you want your pasture free of ragwort. Angry people, and people who are afraid can't believe that.
 
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RagwortFacts said:
Someone may suffer psychological harm, because they heard about the skin-absorption myth like the terrified young teenage girl who contacted a ragwort expert because she had handled ragwort and thought she was going to die.
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The toxins in Ragwort can be absorbed through the skin and make you feel like *****! I know - because it happened to me. I'd heard how you should wear gloves when pulling ragwort - but I'd been pulling it for years without gloves or ill-effect. One day I was pulling a large patch (without gloves) and an hour after I finished I suffered extreme nausea for which there was NO other explanation. I felt seedy for several days. I'll still pull theodd plant without gloves - but I certainly wouldn't pull a lot! Better some teenagers get terrified into taking care with their health than that they listen to YOU and get ill!
 
No Esther, you have not answered my questions. You have waffled & drivelled & posted links, but the one thing you have absolutely not done is answer my questions.
Ragwort facts posted that you are intelligent. I postulate that he/she was wrong, based on the evidence of your posts.
Now please in your next post actually answer my questions, preferably in bullet point format in non technical jargon. My job involves presenting information to the Board of an extremely large multinational company. Many of the Directors do not have English as their first language. If I presented information in the manner you do I would have been sacked within a week.
 
Crugeran Celt said:
EstherHegt, this is a joke right? I cannot believe you are for real!
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Try it and read my website, control my sources and control what we have done. I think we did more then Knottenbelt did with his opinion about ragwort. It is a personal opinion and he became a saint.
You can fight ragwort in the pasture with good knowledge of the plant, you can't fight ragwort with anger and fear in the pasture.
Sure I will help people in UK and wil help with facts. Not a joke.
 
JanetGeorge said:
The toxins in Ragwort can be absorbed through the skin and make you feel like *****! I know - because it happened to me. I'd heard how you should wear gloves when pulling ragwort - but I'd been pulling it for years without gloves or ill-effect. One day I was pulling a large patch (without gloves) and an hour after I finished I suffered extreme nausea for which there was NO other explanation. I felt seedy for several days. I'll still pull theodd plant without gloves - but I certainly wouldn't pull a lot! Better some teenagers get terrified into taking care with their health than that they listen to YOU and get ill!
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Ragwort can cause an allergic skin reaction upon contact; compositae dermatitis (7). This allergy can appear after touching or eating the plant. This allergy is not caused by the pyrrolizidine alkaloids but by other substances that are common in many of the members of the Sunflower family (sesquiterpene lactones)(8).

Full article http://www.ragwort.org.uk/facts-or-...oning-through-skin-absorption-fact-or-fiction
 
You can fight ragwort in the pasture with good knowledge of the plant, you can't fight ragwort with anger and fear in the pasture.


I never feel angry towards the ragwort I pull, I smile all the while I am doing it and I really am not afraid of it either. It hasn't pulled back yet or bitten me so no fear!;)
 
Seeing as you clearly find it difficult to look back to make it easier for you, here are the questions I asked Ragwort Facts:

Ragwort facts

Every morning this week I have spent 10-15 minutes digging ragwort out of my winter field. In the 4 summers I have been using that field no ragwort has been allowed to flower, let alone seed, in or adjacent to it. My summer field only gets the occasional plant which is dug up as soon as I see it. I am now on top of that field & will just monitor on a weekly basis. I suspect my experience is pretty average although, sadly, I don't have any peer reviewed papers to back that up.

Esther & co keep coming on here telling us we are hysterical & manage our pasture all wrong, but do not, despite us asking for clear recommendations, make any sensible suggestions.
Bearing in mind that all of the horses on my yard are good doers currently needing to be strip grazed with the majority being cobs/native x, what do you suggest? What can you recommend that will save me time/money & improve my horses welfare. I bought my ragfork 5 or 6 years ago, other than that I spend £0 p.a.

Are you saying I should just leave the ragwort there? The suggestion from one of our Dutch friends appeared to be that unless you could guarantee that your pasture was always ragwort free you shouldn't have a horse. I did twice ask if that was really what he meant because it would be easy for him to say something misleading in English, but the question was ignored


Now answer the questions.
 
hairycob said:
Seeing as you clearly find it difficult to look back to make it easier for you, here are the questions I asked Ragwort Facts:

Ragwort facts

Every morning this week I have spent 10-15 minutes digging ragwort out of my winter field. In the 4 summers I have been using that field no ragwort has been allowed to flower, let alone seed, in or adjacent to it. My summer field only gets the occasional plant which is dug up as soon as I see it. I am now on top of that field & will just monitor on a weekly basis. I suspect my experience is pretty average although, sadly, I don't have any peer reviewed papers to back that up.

Esther & co keep coming on here telling us we are hysterical & manage our pasture all wrong, but do not, despite us asking for clear recommendations, make any sensible suggestions.
Bearing in mind that all of the horses on my yard are good doers currently needing to be strip grazed with the majority being cobs/native x, what do you suggest? What can you recommend that will save me time/money & improve my horses welfare. I bought my ragfork 5 or 6 years ago, other than that I spend £0 p.a.

Are you saying I should just leave the ragwort there? The suggestion from one of our Dutch friends appeared to be that unless you could guarantee that your pasture was always ragwort free you shouldn't have a horse. I did twice ask if that was really what he meant because it would be easy for him to say something misleading in English, but the question was ignored


Now answer the questions.
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In a yellow field full of ragwort, don't keep a horse. Do some first at the pasture. If a field isn't suitable for food, don't put a horse in it. It is simple.
 
hairycob said:
Seeing as you clearly find it difficult to look back to make it easier for you, here are the questions I asked Ragwort Facts:

Ragwort facts

Every morning this week I have spent 10-15 minutes digging ragwort out of my winter field. In the 4 summers I have been using that field no ragwort has been allowed to flower, let alone seed, in or adjacent to it. My summer field only gets the occasional plant which is dug up as soon as I see it. I am now on top of that field & will just monitor on a weekly basis. I suspect my experience is pretty average although, sadly, I don't have any peer reviewed papers to back that up.


Bearing in mind that all of the horses on my yard are good doers currently needing to be strip grazed with the majority being cobs/native x, what do you suggest? What can you recommend that will save me time/money & improve my horses welfare. I bought my ragfork 5 or 6 years ago, other than that I spend £0 p.a.

All this applies to me too so that is two of us, perhaps if everybody has the same experiences with ragwort we can publish them as facts!
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But Esther that is what I do. The winter field had some ragwort that I have been removing. It's taken me just over an hour spread over 5 days to walk over the whole field & remove the plants. If any new plants pop up in my summer field they get dug up straight away. I know the weather has been rubbish and that may have confused you, but it is actually summer so they aren't in the winter field.

So what am I supposed to change? I still don't get what your issue is.
 
Rhino,

Do you have some ibuprofen as well? All this banging my head against a brick wall has given me a headache.
By the way I'm still saving up for that unicorn horn.
 
hairycob said:
Rhino,

Do you have some ibuprofen as well? All this banging my head against a brick wall has given me a headache.
By the way I'm still saving up for that unicorn horn.
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Are you sure it is a headache? I think it is hysteria, and you would benefit from this

tumblr_lsezq1Zfxa1ql3ltfo1_400.jpg
 
EstherHegt said:
4.3 Do not post rude or abusive messages - including personal attacks on other Users.
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Esther,

it is not against the forum rules to say to someone who has patronised, insulted and quoted references at forum members that they have patronised, insulted and quote references at forum members.
 
hairycob said:
But Esther that is what I do. The winter field had some ragwort that I have been removing. It's taken me just over an hour spread over 5 days to walk over the whole field & remove the plants. If any new plants pop up in my summer field they get dug up straight away. I know the weather has been rubbish and that may have confused you, but it is actually summer so they aren't in the winter field.

So what am I supposed to change? I still don't get what your issue is.
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Listen hairy cob, it is simple - sell your horses because your pasture is not suitable!!! DON'T YOU GET IT!!! ;)

Don't even try to control your ragwort - it is present in your pasture, so it must be allowed to stay there now as it is ecologically valuable.

Actually, according to Ragwort fact's blog (which is amazingly repetitive and uses the same phraseology all the time) although it really is toxic, don't worry about having it in you field, because your horses, like dolphins and dogs, will categorically NOT eat it. The only risk is when it is hidden in hay. Apparently. So the horse I saw die of liver poisoning after been stuck in a field for 4 years with nothing but ragwort, categorically didn't eat any of it and didn't die of that cause. hmmm.

Rhino - can I borrow you brick wall?

PS the other amazing things about that blog is the laudatory laguage which Ragwort Facts uses about all of the dutch group and the PhD - things like towering intellect, stellar cast of experts, magnificent website - the whole thing strikes of a quasi-religion - very strange. However she does have the decency to say that Germaine Greer seems quite intelligent - you don't say!
 
hairycob said:
As I said earlier - I am very intelligent,.
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Oooh, be careful hairycob, you might get a PM from East Kent like I did this morning questionning my modesty :p

Unhappily, he/she seems unprepared to answer the 3 PMs I sent in response, the last one saying that I find cowardice an overrated trait, with a grin :D of course, like he/she used in his/her PM.
 
I'm sure Germaine Greer will be most flattered!

Perhaps I had better arrange to have my horses shot because everybody gets some ragwort & therefore is unfit to own them.
 
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