Random...

[endymion]

Ok, I'm getting bored of going over the same old hunting arguments so was wondering what, if any, types of animal cruelty some of you pros are against and exactly what type of action you would be prepared to take against it....

 

[CARREG]

I dont like the "preforming bear" type activities you see abroad or any type of cruelty where the animal has no chance of escape, baiting etc, what would I do about it, I've donated money to help stamp out these forms of cruelty............Carreg

 

[LACS]

You can't agree with terrierwork then.

 

[allijudd]

I am against any form of cruelty especially to do with horses, dogs or cats. I would do whatever it takes to stop cruelty if I witness it.
If I had witnessed what was described on the ANTIS=TERRORISTS string yesterday
"my cousins mate had great delight in breaking the leg of a pony that was out hunting! And he says Huntings cruel?????"
I can guarantee the person who did that would at best no longer be walking, at worst be in a box. Actions like that are inexcusable, and as tollerant as I am, breaking a pony's leg because it is taking part in a hunt is totally out of order.
Apart from hunting Endy, what other animal cruelty are you against and what would you do about it?

 

[Hercules]

Antis spraying hounds with ammonia and citronella to ruin the scent. Antis releasing animals into an environment which they are incapable of fending for themselves.

What sort of action would I take? Hit the mongs with the full weight of the law.

 

[LACS]

But you don't obey the law, do you?

 

[AlanE]

Endy, I'm against cruelty of any sort, but I think you need to define what YOU mean by the term.

I think there is confusion between what we call 'natural' and 'unnatural', for example. battery chickens. Unnatural, maybe. Cruel, no.

I think real cruelty is committed by anti-hunters who ignore the results of their actions. They are people haters whose gratification is trying to crush certain sections of society. They don't care if animals suffer as a result, and have a wall of hypocrisy which 'protects' them from reality.

In terms of cruelty to wild mammals, then live-trapping is probably the least humane method, since an animal is in a totally frightening and alien space. Hunting, as you would expect, where the animal is free until the last second (of proper hunting) is of course tops in humanity and conservation; at one with nature.

 

[endymion]

Why just horses, cats and dogs?

Apart from protesting I've been veggie for 19 yrs, do fundraising, volunteer a bit when I've time and am just finishing my degree in conservation so hopefully someone will pay me for doing this full-time.

And if I ever saw a sab hurt an animal then I'd break their legs too! But I'ver saw anything apart form loved-up encounters with hounds...

 

[CARREG]

".....You can't agree with terrierwork then....."

I'll assume thats directed at me, what makes you think that, in the 30 yrs Ive been working terriers Ive never blocked a fox to ground to intentionally dig it, every time I enter a terrier to ground every hole is netted if possible and the fox dispatched as soon as is humanly possible...............Carreg

 

[endymion]

I think each individual defines animal cruelty in their own way. I'm just interested to how pros approach the subject.

 

[RunToEarth]

Cruelty...I cant speak of bull fighting, I have never experienced therefor dont deserve to form opinion on it. The only kind I have come accross it cruelty to horses, mine in particular. Having spent the past year with a head shy/man shy/ noise shy/ stranger shy little horse, I can quite safely say, I dont agree with the way some horses are handler/broken and punished.

 

[Hercules]

But you don't obey the law, do you?

Correct. I recently picked up a parking ticket and a speeding fine.

 

[allijudd]

LACS, I see you are new here and I hope you will join in enjoyable debate on the forum. If you look at my other posts you will see that I am not a hunter but I do not believe in removing traditions or people's freedoms. I also try to point out to people that meaningfull debate is far more enjoyable and constructive than mud flinging and trading insults.
So I will as you this:
What was the benefit or gain by your posting above? Do you know the person it was aimed at personally and that they break the law, or are you just assuming they do?
I would suggest that you make friends on the forum and discuss points of view. It is very easy to alienate yourself from people who disagree with your views AND people who agree but not in the manner in which you go about presenting your view.

 

[LACS]

Several points:

1. You know as well as I do that some terriermen deliberately block the fox in so it has no chance of escape. They take pride in their dogs which are "hard" which can take "punishment" from the fox.

2. Are you saying that in every single instance during your last 30 years the fox has bolted? You've never had to dig down to it?

3. You're setting your terrier onto a wild animal. That is baiting, yet you claim to abhor this.

4. Do you get paid for your terrierwork?

 

[allijudd]

Endy,
Are you trying to make out that pros are any more or less human than the antis?
As far as I can see we all breathe, eat sleep etc and are human. Just because we have differing opinions on ONE subject does not at all suggest that pros condone cruelty in any form, and really it depends on people's viewpoint.
For exampe the Massi(sp) tribe send out the male when he believes he is ready to go and kill a lion with his bare hands. Some people might think it is cruel on the man because the lion is stronger, but he has to do it to gain respect from his peers. Activists might think its cruel for the lion because its a long drawn out fight to the death which is rarely quick, and the lion suffers, BUT it is traditional and the tribe will continue as it always has.

 

[LACS]

What a load of crap. One of the most beneficial aspects of debate is that provides the opportunity for "mud flinging and trading insults". That's healthy and far more interesting than boring sanitised LibDem-style waffle. If people don't like it they can get stuffed!

 

[CARREG]

1. Problem foxes would be blocked in by order of the landowner, this is done obviously to ensure the fox doesnt escape, Ive seen hundreds still get away so the chance is still there

2. no

3. Baiting to me is putting animals wild or domestic in a situation and encouraging them to fight when they have no chance of escape, every fox I enter a terrier to has every chance of bolting therefore in my opinion this isnt baiting

4. yes....why..??

 

[LACS]

1. Are you saying terriermen only even block the fox in at the request of the landowner? Are you saying that some terriermen don't take pride in the hardness of their dogs and the wounds they receive? Would you like me to provide genuine quotes to back up my comments?

2. To put it mildly, it's statistically improbable that you've never ever dug out a fox in 30 years.

3. Baiting is setting an animal on another animal. This is what you do.

4. Are you paid for every "terrierwork job" you do?

 

[allijudd]

So in your own words you would prefer to degenerate what was qiute a good thread into a pointless name calling waste of time? Well to be honest, I kind of expected that kind of childish backwards behaviour.......... your user name follows on from the biggest bunch of toss*rs who are full of c*ap and lies, so why sould you be any different....

Sorry Endy I was hoping this thread was going to be different, but obviously not.

 

[LACS]

Where have I called people names? The only person who has done this so far in the thread is your good self.

 

[CARREG]

1. no

2. you asked...." Are you saying that in every single instance during your last 30 years the fox has bolted? You've never had to dig down to it?........I answered; NO

3. Thats your opinion, one to which you are fully entitled, as I am mine

4. yes, in one way or another....I'll ask again...why..??

 

[allijudd]

Thats not name calling........ just the truth about a group of people who represent animal welfare...ummm not for the foxes welfare thats for sure.

What does LACS stand for then???
Losers Against Common Sense?

Not name calling, just asking the question, and by the way what will happen to the hunting bill when the conservatives get in? I wonder

 

[LACS]

1. The first sensible thing you've said.

2. Precisely. Let's abandon for ever this fiction that foxes are NEVER dug to. To most civilised people this practice is the most distasteful form of baiting.

3. See (2). Your opinion, I believe, is shared by a tiny proportion of the population. The vast majority are sickened by what you do.

4. Another improbable claim. In 30 years you've been paid for every single fox you've killed?

 

[Hercules]

allij,

I agree with you, so I apologise in advance. LACS is an ignorant prick.

Back to the debate.

 

[LACS]

You criticise me for "name calling" (a) when I haven't called anyone names and (b) when you call people you happen to disagree with "tossers". I see just the tiniest inconsistency here.

If the Tories get in I'm sure they'll get rid of the Hunting Act.

 

[LACS]

More intolerance. More childish name-calling.

 

[allijudd]

If you read what i originally put, it was to say that joining the forum and then accusing someone you DONT know of breaking the law........ is a bit rich really. but you obviously missed the point I was making by a mile and said debate is all about mud flinging and name calling..... i am just indulging you in what you see as a "good debate"

 

[allijudd]

Also I think you should read some of my other postings.... i am very tollerant untill someone is so stupid as to say "what a load of crap" then expect my tollerance level to be very very limited.

 

[LACS]

I merely put it to my good friend Hercules that he broke the law, something which he quickly confirmed. I don't think that's descending to the level of "name-calling" or "mud-slinging".

However, if you wish to resort to these aspects of debate I'm delighted. You're much more interesting when you drop the Mother Teresa act.

 

[LACS]

I formally withdraw my "crap" ejaculation, so to speak. I hope you love me again now.