Rant about selling older horses

LEC

LEC

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It makes me furious to see horses over the age of 16 for sale. When a horse reaches that age they should NEVER be sold you have 2 options.

1) If healthy but not suitable for you anymore then you put it on loan where they can have a happy easier life but they are still your responsibility if something goes wrong.

2) You PTS.

Why do people insist on selling old horses it makes me so cross as people are just washing their hands of responsibility. It seems to be a very recent phenomonen that has appeared in the last 4 years.

Do not get me wrong older horses can still do a great deal but selling them is wrong and in my opinion irresponsible ownership. At PC we have 25 year old ponies who belong to families whose kids are now 30 but who have been happily loaned to families with younger children and just get passed on but the buck stops with the owner and if the pony could not carry on it is PTS.

People are sickened by the horsemeat trade yet this irresponsible ownership and selling older horses fuels it.

People pussyfoot around and only think of their own guilt in having a horse PTS they do not think of its best interests and what might happen in the future to the horse and whose hands it ends up in.

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has sold an older horse and why you made that decision.
 
sory but 16 is not old really...
Above 20 I can agree with you, but at 16 there are plenty of years left in a horse.
 
WHY? I bought my mare last year and she is at least 18 ok she was advertised as younger but we knew how old she was really and ok I will never sell her on but she is worth her weight in gold and has now found a lovely home albeit I say so myself and will be looked after in her golden years where as she has been mistreated in her younger days.
 
See I think 16 has to be taken into consideration as in 2 years they will be 18. I agree 16 is not that old but its that people just do not think about it. I think seeing that ad for a 20 year has triggered this off in me.
 
we recently brought a20yr old sec d schoolmaster for our daughter and paid £1500 for him , his owner was going abroad so do you really think he should have been pts ? hes fit and well and my daughters confidence hasgrown so much with him, his experience to her is priceless. he settled instantly and in the 5 mths weve had him never put a foot wrong.
so why do you think selling him to us was wrong ?
 
She is lucky she is now owned by you but she was being advertised as younger in order to try and escape the age factor. If she did not get bought by you what do you think would have happened to her? If they can lie about age they clearly have no conscience so would have been highly probable she would have gone for meat.
 
i bought a 13yo grade a sj who had not been mistreated but had reached the top of her career and was coming back down the other side so was surplus. they just threw her out in a field with pressure sores on her legs and quite obese. we took a chance and she ended up with TLC jumping 1m & 1.10 opens very happily. when i spoke to one of the last known rders who had competed her many many times he could not tell me nothing about her manners , vices etc as she would be picked up , taken to show then dropped back. i also had an 11yo that had been mistreated as she could not make the height that the owners wanted. i think that the older horses find better homes later in life when they are looking to slow down and are not in such high pressure competition. normally the buyer will only have the one so they will get more time spent on them. i hasten to add not all older competition horses are mistreated.
 
I am saying he should have been put on loan. Ponies go on for a lot longer than horses I can appreciate that but you never used to see adverts for older horses in the past? Why not? Are you saying care has got better? Maybe drugs have but I do not think care has changed that in 20 years.
 
I see where you are coming from..I personally wouldnt part with my mare for anything especially when she is older as id worry too much about where she would end up. But on the other hand I have known people to buy older horses/ponies and give them a great home for the rest of their lives
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I can see your point Lec but older horses do have a lot to give as long as they are still sound - lots of horses and ponies carry on being ridden into their late 20's
 
I disagree.
I see nothing wrong with selling a sound and healthy older horse, with a reduced value to reflect the reduced number of years of use one can expect. I believe there are good homes out there.
The problem is where people sell unsound, unhealthy older horses misrepresented as younger animals (and my dentist aged my 19yo as 14 - 15yrs from her teeth).
If an older horse doesn't have a viable working (or companion) future, then it will sell for below meat money and is therefore vulnerable to an uncertain life.
I do believe that more novice horse owners should buy older horses coming to the end of their working lives, than the 4 or 5 year old Warmbloods which they then lose confidence on.
S
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I have never said they do not have a lot to give - my thoughts are about ownership and being responsible. It just seems a huge coincidence to me that dodgy dealers have 20 year old horses who are lame to sell on to inexperienced buyers - how do they end up here? I am sure their whole lives have not been spent like this.

I have a 16yo who hunts and he is fine and dandy I could probably sell him tomorrow but is that fair to the horse? What type of owner would I be if I was not morally responsible for what happened to him?
 
lec
I couldn't agree more.
These horses very often end up going around sales or with owners that don't look after them. I also find it unthinkable that people sell older horses after they have worked for them for years.
I buy and re-habilitate problem/unhandled horses, but when I sell them they are still young, are safe to ride, and thier whole future ahead of them. To sell my best riding horse when he gets old is totally unimaginable.
These people who disagree should take a walk around the horse sales - most of the old riding types were loved once but fall into dealers hands because people haven't the backbone to have them destroyed.



www.lastchanceequine.com
 
Surely in this day and age 16 is not old I know of a few horses who at 28 are still in full time work and as cheeky as they were as youngsters..What about the multitude of happy hackers out there who are looking for an older (hopefully) more sensible horse
 
Do not get me wrong I am not the unrealistic type when it comes to selling as have sold loads and anything that does not suit me goes.

I just feel that the current trend is wrong and I wonder why it has suddenly emerged. This huge fuss about Amersham and yet where did they all come from?
 
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I have never said they do not have a lot to give - my thoughts are about ownership and being responsible. It just seems a huge coincidence to me that dodgy dealers have 20 year old horses who are lame to sell on to inexperienced buyers - how do they end up here? I am sure their whole lives have not been spent like this.

I have a 16yo who hunts and he is fine and dandy I could probably sell him tomorrow but is that fair to the horse? What type of owner would I be if I was not morally responsible for what happened to him?

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I understood your welfare concerns.
Dodgy dealers manage to sell 20yr olds on for a few factors - older horses are cheaper to buy, people that buy from dealers often don't have the horse vetted, and don't know how to age from teeth and appearance themselves, and the passport system is not adequate for the job in the UK.
Perhaps we should also be a bit more supportive of riding schools...where old horses often could find a worthwhile and happy role acting as schoolmasters (contrary to popular belief most riding school horses are very well looked after, and not overworked)?
S
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Care hasnt changed in 20 years? I wholly disagree with this.

These days horses are on supplements for just about everything; many from a young age. Addition of joint supplements helps to preserve the synovial fluid between joints.

We know more about keeping them fit and healthy than we ever have. We're in a world where people ride in air filled saddles, have chiros, osteos and dentists as a matter of course. Smithing techniques have improved and indeed, the more common useage of 4 point / NB shoes helps a lot of horses who are conformationally challenged and would perhaps otherwise have a limited work life.

Diagnostics have improved... we can scan for all sorts, xrays are more a matter of course and dealing with such things as fractures carries a much better prognosis than it ever has.

People are more aware of why horses should be schooled correctly and how and why this helps them to have a prolonged working life.

People are now more aware of the degree of care horses need.

I disagree with this tbh. I dont think there is anything wrong with selling horses at an older age. The sad fact is that ANY horse sold at ANY age can end up in unpleasant circumstances. Some horses can find lovely homes at that age and indeed, its quite common for high level school masters to change hands. If a horse is still fit and healthy, why should he not be helping another person to learn?

Sure, you have to be careful where they go, but that applies with a horse of any age. Its quite common sense about selling any horse on. If you have a 12 year old with advanced osteoarthritis or navicular and you put him for sale (as a hack or companion for example), how is that worse than selling a 20 year old who is fit and healthy with nothing more than age against him?

ALL owners have an obligation to any horse and passing it on before its reached 16 or wherever you want to draw your line doesnt rid you of that.

Older horses can be 100% ideal for many people - those seeking school masters, those seeking something with a (theoretically) more level head and calmer outlook on life.

The reason you see more older horses for sale these days? They live longer and their working lives are longer.
 
I think a horse put on loan to a stranger is just as vulnerable, probably more so as someone who pays a good price for a 16 year-old may well love it into old age. Many, many horses on loan 'disapear' - even a few hundreds pounds from the meat man is a profit
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Our old point to pointer is now 21/22 he cannot do what is required out hunting/competing but would never be sold instead he has a wonderful life as a hacker and has had two very good loan homes in the last 4 years who understand his needs and in return he is a wonderful ride.

My argument is not about older horses being incapable but the responsibilities of ownership.
 
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Our old point to pointer is now 21/22 he cannot do what is required out hunting/competing but would never be sold instead he has a wonderful life as a hacker and has had two very good loan homes in the last 4 years who understand his needs and in return he is a wonderful ride.

My argument is not about older horses being incapable but the responsibilities of ownership.

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Ah, but you see I'd rather buy an old horse than loan one...because I'd want to be able to have it PTS if/when necessary. If one of your loaners were to ask to buy your P2P horse, would you say no?
S
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This is very true but you can put that down to any horse, just because a horse is older (if sound and healthy) there is no greater a risk to him being badly treated / ending up going through the sales than a young horse, When selling I hope most owners put the needs of the horse first but sadly its usually the needs of the seller only that are taken into consideration.

it is a hard world out there and even putting your beloved horse on loan is no guarantee of its safety
 
I agree 100%. Why would anyone buy a horse nearing its 20s that someone else had had the best years from, and that is past insurable age instead of a horse in it's prime for any other reason than the fact that they're cheap?!! If they can't afford to pay a fair purchase price for a horse how likely are they to be able to cover the vet bills an older, barely insured horse needs? I'm know there are useful old horses but they really should change homes through loan arrangements while they are up to doing a job.
 
Touche!
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Horse will not be sold as his future can still be controlled but I do see your point. I think that with their being no guarrantees in life even if we did sell him for £1 to loaner it would be the what ifs.

This will amuse you but I do not think/worry about the younger horses half as much! I guess I know they are worth a lot more in value so will have hopefully have a greater degree of care.
 
There are many reasons. Perhaps they want a schoolmaster? Perhaps they want a been there-done that type of horse to teach a younger rider?

Insurance isnt always an issue. For some sure. For all? No

Also be assured that not all horses nearing or indeed in their 20s are a cheap option. For those who are seeking true school masters, those in their 20s can still be trading hands for 20k+. Dont just assume that theyre going with a cheaper option because they cant afford a younger horse.

Older competition horses can be worth their weight in gold and as Shilasdair pointed out, many people will not loan as it adds complications
 
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Touche!
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Horse will not be sold as his future can still be controlled but I do see your point. I think that with their being no guarrantees in life even if we did sell him for £1 to loaner it would be the what ifs.

This will amuse you but I do not think/worry about the younger horses half as much! I guess I know they are worth a lot more in value so will have hopefully have a greater degree of care.

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I agree that all horse owners (and even more so, breeders) have a responsibility to do their best to ensure a good future for their animals, whether they are foals or equine geriatrics.
I just don't agree that a good future can't be found by selling an older horse to a suitable home. In some ways, older animals should be easier to place than foals...as they are less challenging in terms of behaviour.
We should all be encouraging novice and new horse owners to be looking for decent horses in their late teens so they build confidence and enjoy owning horses, rather than encouraging them to buy/import huge flashy and often sharp youngsters to scare each other witless
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S
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it is a hard world out there and even putting your beloved horse on loan is no guarantee of its safety

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Totally agree with you, we loaned out our old 11.2 (late twenties) brilliant kids first pony to a lady who then wanted to buy her, brilliant stables, lots of land that she owned, we said no as we wanted to keep track of her. So she was then loaned out to what seemed like an ideal home, we checked the yard all was fine. Then we went to check her found she had been moved, it took 2 weeks to track the loaner down (couldn't find pony though). We then decided to ask for her back but by the time we had managed to track the loaner down the pony had drowned in a ditch due to a lack of fencing at the new field. I do wonder if she would have had a better life if we had sold her to the first lady instead?

Also we tend to buy horses and ponies of 15+ as they are normally cheaper and my mum and I are 'happy hackers' and don't have the money to buy a bombproof younger horse.
 
Hi, its that old question of being a responsible horse owner or not. Many people are responsible but probably more are not.
Thats why too many horses wether young or old get passed around and end up in undesirable places.

At the moment we have four of our horses out on loan. All have been wondeful in their own way and given us 100% in the showring. They owe us nothing, but we owe them the best qulity of life and the assurance that we will oversee their welfare.
Only one is over 16,a hanovarian, she is now 17 and with a wondeful lady who is doing veteran classes and dressage. Freya looked after my daughter when she went onto horses 6 years ago.
Obviously we have on an occassion sold an unsuitable pony after trying our best with it but we have always vetted suitable homes (i know there is no guarantee).

I would rather PTS an oldy before passing them on to jo bloggs.
 
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I agree that all horse owners (and even more so, breeders) have a responsibility to do their best to ensure a good future for their animals, whether they are foals or equine geriatrics.
I just don't agree that a good future can't be found by selling an older horse to a suitable home.

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i have to agree with this statement, hit the nail on the head for me

i dont like the fact that some people literally want to wash their hands of an older horse just because they want to trade it in for a newer younger model, that horse deserves the best, their best years have been used

i have owned my mare since she was 2yrs old, she is rising 18 now, she is going no where, even if i cant afford to have another when i have to retire her i will not wash my hands of her, she will live out her days with me, i hope i have many years left in her anyway
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