Rant! Does Nobody want to work with horses anymore??!

When I finished my A levels I didn't want to go to uni. I wanted to work with horses. My parents were disappointed, but allowed me to take a year out and work for the local riding school/show jumping/hunt yard. At first I was in my element. I worked six days a week for very little pay. After a year, the novelty had definitely worn off. I decided to go and do a Psychology degree and get a job that paid quadrupal the amount with fewer hours.

After having kids, I am now back working with horses, for next to no money. But with a difference, it's my own place.
 
I worked with horses full time from the age of 14; did an old fashioned apprenticeship which involved my parents PAYING for me to work as a very lowly groom for the first year. Then worked in the industry all over the world, have done every job from mucking, breeding and stud work, breaking, training, competing (in dressage), teaching, etc., etc. It is pure slavery, even when you own the business as I eventually did. I still work with horses professionally, but will NEVER go back to full time work within the horse "industry". Apart from racing and some bigger showjumping yards, this is a hobby business; prices, for livery, horse sales, stud fees, etc. do not reflect market forces and if you had to pay what was really required I think most people would not be able to afford to own a horse.
 
Navaho I totally agree.
It's the same where I live, I'm on 12,000 a year and my partner is on 11,000 a year. All the jobs round here are min wage. We don't expect higher paid jobs cause there aren't none and the amount of people losing their jobs is unreal so yes at the end of a day it's a job for somebody
 
I made the decision years ago not to work with horses as my main job, its the only way i could afford to live and keep horses for myself.
Fast forward to today, ive had horses much of my life and had loads of fun, paid to do my stages and coaching quals myself, backed my own, competed albeit at lower levels and had loads of fun along the way.
As i progressed in my chosen career i now only need to work 2 days a week, i have my own home, a comfortable lifestyle, have my own small barn of stables that i rent with all equestrian facilities and have 3, soon to be 4 horses, theres no way i couldve done that if i had been working all my life for someone else in the horse business.
 
I think the reason why YO pay so little is they never really cost what they should charge for there services, they choose the price they want to charge and then work backwards. Some yards round here are charging £80 a week full livery, how can anyone make a living from this?
I think if the YO is not paying themselves a living wage its not an excuse to not pay a living wage to their employees it means they need to look at their business.
In racing it took them a long time to start looking after their staff , they have an advantage that the Jockey club contol yards and there are set rates something that would be very difficult to enforce with lots of small yards with no central organisation.
 
Navaho and thatsmygirl, I don't think anyone on here has had a go at cuppatea. What we have done is say that all of us have chosen better paid jobs with better working conditions, because WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO. If you live/work in an area where that is not an option, then of course it's a totally different set of circumstances. But I for one don't know where you are located, and can therefore only comment based on my own experiences.
 
I would love to work with horses! I am a mortgage advisor , sorry to hit you all with excitement there!! .. will give you afew secs to recover ;)

However

1. I am not clever enough to be a vet :confused:
2. It doesnt pay enough :(
3. not strong enough to be a farrier :rolleyes:
4. to tall and heavy to be a jokey ;)

Otherwise i would be in there like swimwear :)
 
Living wages are the key, not minimum wages.

Being a wage payer, I like to ensure a job is valued and people do the best they can. I've always paid more than the going rate for wages, but then I charge a realist fee. If you don't want it at that price, don't buy it.
 
I have two grooms they effectively job share both have horses of their own ( kept off site ) .
I pay over the minimum wage the same you would get for an office job or lower management in a bar or resturant round here.
I give them a high degree of flexibility so they can fit in their lives tailor as much as possible to what they like to do .
Spend time training them if apporiate .
I don't overwork them .
One girl plus me for four horses they are self employed that's the hard bit for them .both do other things as well at times.
I am happy for them to be older have children whatever , arrive without the full skill set and invest time in them.
I never have trouble finding people and I am quite demanding.
 
Id never work woth horses again! I was paid for three hours work but made me work all day... Then the yard manager managed to get my £900 quid and not give it to me...
I left my first job in debt and i find the work enviroment to bitchy! Never got my money back and dont think i ever will!
Xx
 
Nope. Been there done that. got the surgical scars, constant aches and pains and the hole in my bank balance to prove it ;)

Which doesn't mean I wouldn't love to work with you Cuppa. You seem lovely and funny and I bet you're ace. Just that being a work rider is a sucky job. Or rather, it's the best job in the world whilst it's going well but it won't ever get you a mortgage or run your own lorry and that kind of thing and when it goes wrong you end up on statutory sick pay! If I could afford to do it I would go back to it, I loved it. But I just can't. I know a few people just like me. Had to switch so they could earn enough to lead a 'grown up' life with cars and kids and there own horses.

Maybe it's because of where you are? I'm Newmarket way and the racing school still has loads of people through the doors so clearly people do want to do it. Have you been in touch with them? They might be able to ask their kids for you if anyone fancies it?
 
Another here who worked with horses and got out of it to earn 'proper' money.

Paying the minimum wage is fine if you want young, naive teenagers who are green out of college but anyone with a bit about them, able to think for themselves, trustworthy and with half a brain, is quickly going to realise there is a gulf of difference between the Legal minimum wage and the Living minimum wage!

I did 3 years with horses and then realised that if I wanted a mortgage, a nice car, to go on holiday etc- I needed a job away from horses.
It was surprisingly easy to move into another industry and I was very quickly earning double/triple the horse wages, got a mortgage, 2 horses on full livery and actually had a life outside of the equine world.
 
I'd work for free, just because I love horses and I'm eager to always learn more. But I never see much about. I don't mind mucking out duties and stuff.
Never much about though I find
 
Yet another ex groom here! I got out of horses when a breaker decked me in spectacular fashion and I am physically unable to do the job anymore. And, after covering for a friends yard a few weeks back, I actually realised that I wouldn't go back even if I could.
 
I've read this thread with interest. We haven't had any staff for about 10 years and recently decided that we needed someone. I mentioned this on our busy Facebook page and had dozens of enquiries with an experienced person starting in January.

We are however offering over the minimum wage, a bonus when a horse is sold, 30 days annual leave, a 5 day week, own horse and it paid for, ridden lessons and training regularly (yes, really) both from me and from top trainers, opportunity to compete out horses, transport to shows for own horse and BHS stages. It will be difficult for our business to meet this commitment but if we are going to employ someone it will be properly or not at all. We will have to increase revenue but have costed properly and this post should help us do that.
 
Measles - that sounds great :)

I have worked on a few yards, got injured on one and had a nightmare getting YO to let me off yard and go home. Leg was infected and I struggled to walk. I quit soon after as at £50 a week, 6 days working wasn't worth it.

I got another job years later, £200 a week, did my own tax, my livery was free (grass livery and hay included). My leg couldn't cope with the work and I had to give it up. I now work in a different industry and have loads of time for both my ponies and competing. I would love to go back working with horses, but financially and timewise, it's not practical.

I have found, to work with horses (if you don't get one of the decent jobs), you have to be debt free.
 
I did work experience for 1 week with horses when I was 16years old, it put me right off. I decided then that it would be much nicer to have horses as a hobby and get a job to pay for them.
 
measles said:
I've read this thread with interest. We haven't had any staff for about 10 years and recently decided that we needed someone. I mentioned this on our busy Facebook page and had dozens of enquiries with an experienced person starting in January.

We are however offering over the minimum wage, a bonus when a horse is sold, 30 days annual leave, a 5 day week, own horse and it paid for, ridden lessons and training regularly (yes, really) both from me and from top trainers, opportunity to compete out horses, transport to shows for own horse and BHS stages. It will be difficult for our business to meet this commitment but if we are going to employ someone it will be properly or not at all. We will have to increase revenue but have costed properly and this post should help us do that.
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well done you and i bet you'll find it will pay in the long term by being able to keep good staff.



See, its all very well saying 'its minimum wage the same as working in a bar or tesco shelf stacking why does no one want to do it>?'

firstly, you're asking for staff with at least minimum yard and common sense skills (hard enough on its own) but more importantly, being a half decent rider and helping to break horses is dangerous work and is a skilled job and the wage should reflect this. Its not all unskilled ***t shovelling.

Are you really surprised when in the depth of winter, people would rather choose the job in the warm cafe serving chips on regular hours than knee deep in mud, sloshing freezing water buckets til all hours then risking life and limb being the first to sit on the 3ry old they've been asked to break?

I know which id choose and id be bored to death working in Tesco but id still take that option because while its paying the same money, its the easier one on my health.

The horse industry really has to wake up and wise up to these facts if they want to keep their good staff and recruit new ones or it will be stuck in the quagmire it is presently for along time to come.
 
Where I live there are loads and loads of people wanting to work with horses. I get at least 2 emails every week from people asking to work for me. Unfortunately most of them don't have the slightest clue about horses or how to do very much with them; so bad I'd never even trust them to catch a horse from the field :o Scary how poor the level of horsemanship seems to be these days.
 
lula said:
The horse industry really has to wake up and wise up to these facts if they want to keep their good staff and recruit new ones or it will be stuck in the quagmire it is presently for along time to come.
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I would agree - and I DO have good staff - and keep them - by treating them well! But it costs!! And then people send me a breaker and complain at the cost - and expect me to turn their badly brought up, ill-mannered git into an angel in 3 weeks! Or people come to see a very nice home-bred 4 year old who has COST me at least £5,000 to breed, keep, back and ride away - and expect an offer of £3,000 to get them the horse! :rolleyes:
 
measles said:
I've read this thread with interest. We haven't had any staff for about 10 years and recently decided that we needed someone. I mentioned this on our busy Facebook page and had dozens of enquiries with an experienced person starting in January.

We are however offering over the minimum wage, a bonus when a horse is sold, 30 days annual leave, a 5 day week, own horse and it paid for, ridden lessons and training regularly (yes, really) both from me and from top trainers, opportunity to compete out horses, transport to shows for own horse and BHS stages. It will be difficult for our business to meet this commitment but if we are going to employ someone it will be properly or not at all. We will have to increase revenue but have costed properly and this post should help us do that.
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And I think you have made a really smart choice.

If the horse industry can't be competitive with wages, then there need to be other attractions - which you have obviously had the savvy to organise :).

IME people will put up with a lot and work in some very difficult situations with poor pay - but they will keep coming back for more when they feel valued and they get a sense of satisfaction from the work. Prime example of this is nursing and care work :o)

Sometimes just treating the worker with some respect is all that's needed - and that costs the employer nothing :D
 
measles- your package sounds really good. I wonder if the reason you have thought it through and are offering a good deal (proper holiday, proper tuition) is because I think (unless I'm confusing with someone else) that you actually have a job outside the horse industry as well as the yard?
Do you think perhaps that has a bearing on what you expect people to work for having a grasp of what people outside horses get?
 
I am a full time groom. I work a 5 day week, 30 days hol a year, a decent pension, unlimited riding on well behaved horses and some training. I get a good deal other than the money, I earn just over min wage.

The work is bl*dy hard, my back is constantly aching, I have chillblains and random bruises all over me :(

I consider myself to be a lucky groom, I work for a large organisation (college) so have some job security and benefits but right now the money is really making me question how long I can keep this up. Well... as well as the fact that I dont think my back will make it through another winter.

I'm 24 and 4 months pregnant (Not that my workload has been reduced to accomodate this....) and I think I'm getting a bit old for this!
 
I worked full time with horses for three years, I did everything and anything that was asked of me ... I backed youngsters, retrained racehorses, excercised clients horses, taught beginners to advanced riders, mucked out, turned out and fed seven days a week, freelanced as a showgroom, did catch riding, handled the stallions and youngstock and more! I got kicked, bitten, stomped on, worked in -40 degrees temperature (this was in Canada) ... I'm not blowing my own trumpet but I worked HARD. I loved in and would literally do ANYTHING that was asked of me with a smile. I would go back to this lifestyle in a heart-beat IF I was given better in return.

This seems to be the problem with the horse industry, no-one seems to be willing to pay for a good assistant/groom. I'm not greedy, I'm not expecting any crazy amount of money or to even be given weekends off. But when all you get is £80 a week and a room in an unmaintained farm house which leaks, has next to no heating and where the shower doesn't work properly (this is what I got in return for seven days a week, 7am - up to 9pm of work) there's only so long that you can keep it up. I know I was wrecked after three years of being taken advantage of like this.

Despite that, if someone offered me a job with horses and it was fair, I would never say no. I miss it so badly. But how can people expect you to work that hard for so little, I mean I've seen ads looking for a groom and only offering lessons in return, and this was a full time position !!! I need to eat !!!
 
Jesstinsel you are correct. I work in education and am a BHSAI, and believe that people should be coached, developed and assisted to develop their skills no matter what role they have. The person coming to work for us said in the past she has been shouted at and my response was, truthfully, that she is more likely to be invited out to lunch with us.

Quite simply, how can I expect loyalty and commitment if I don't demonstrate it?
 
I think, as others have said, the biggest problem is the poor money, rewards and working conditions in many horsey jobs.

Minimum wage isn't really (as others have said) a living wage. I worked for minimum wage when I was a student and had a part time job to fund my horse and my social life, when living at home. There's not a chance in hell I would have accepted that wage in the long term - I would not have been able to move out, let alone afford a reasonable lifestyle. I currently earn almost double minimum wage, and I can only just afford to run my horse, my car, live in a 1 bed place with my OH and have a semblance of a social life. Not exactly unreasonable expectations!

Money isn't the be all and end all but it is important. However a lot can be made up for by other benefits and treating staff properly. A decent package that includes reasonable working hours and days, job security, a fair holiday allowance etc - can make up for a lot. But many yard jobs don't offer that.

I also think there is a problem in the sense that career progression is very limited. If you work in a supermarket or restaurant for minimum wage, there's a good likelihood of progression to supervisor, manager etc. There isn't the same career ladder in grooming/riding jobs.

It's not easy, but I think if you want someone reliable, skilled and trustworthy, then you need to pay a fair wage.
 
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