RANT. Pink and fluffy would be Parelli- ites should not be allowed to ...

Enfys

Enfys

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have young horses:mad::mad::mad: I need caffeine.......

I am so mad I could SPIT!

A Boarder wants her yearling trimmed tomorrow, so I thought I'd bring him in overnight with a buddy as the farrier is here early, all the 'ps' and all that. Simple eh?

NOT:mad:

I'm sure there is a point to Parelli, stick waving and all that and it has it's good points, somewhere... but she has also made my other youngsters leery too. Enough! She can stop doing it in my paddock. If she doesn't like it she can take him away.

It took me half an hour to get near him and a halter on...would this be because the owner insists on teaching him to 'respect' her space and walks him away from her before she catches him? (I've watched her, but felt it wasn't my place to say anything - her horse, her business etc)

Walked him (ish) out of the field with his buddy. He planted, OK, young horse, no matter, we'll take our time, I have an hour or so. Then- the little gobshite went for me with his front feet, and I mean WENT, so I let him go (discretion being the better part of valour, and I am not getting paid to get injured) and decided that if she wants her horse trimmed she can damn well teach him to lead and have a few manners first before I handle him (I don't charge to bring in and hold for the farrier, I merely do it as a favour:rolleyes: no more) In fact, SHE can jolly well do it herself.

So, he's put himself in a walkway between two paddocks, I'll just take his halter off and let him back in to his paddock. Easy enough. Oh RIGHT:mad:

Three quarters of an hour later he is still running up and down the walkway (about a quarter mile long) charging right through me and kicking out on the way past. By this time I am wishing I had:

a) a gun, or
b) another person to help.
c) another pack of cigarettes on me. None of which I had.

I gave up, opened his gate and so now the little toe-rag is now hurtling around his paddock with his halter and rope on, and he can keep it on all night for all I care. I don't really have other things to do. I have a lot of patience with babies, but it wears pretty thin when they start getting aggressive, this guy doesn't want anything to do with people.

If he was mine he'd be in a stable for a week learning some manners:mad: Unfortunately he isn't mine, so he's in a paddock with a halter on, ah well, he'll learn all about not panicking when he stands on his rope then won't he...maybe not such a waste of time after all.
 
I don't understand, assuming the wee sod isn't charging at people in the field, what purpose is served asking him to back up before he's caught, surely it would make more sense to be teaching all that after he's been caught, as part of his groundwork...? Teaching him to lead, go forwards, backwards etc? :confused:
 
If it's your paddock tell her to do one. I once saw some parrelli it's trying to teach a horse to load by waving a stick at it. Poor horse looked so con fussed. A good pat on the bum and feed in the trailer would have been better
 
ummm never understood the flapping of arms to make horse go back - in my many years a hand on chest does damn well - mmmm very interesting - ohhh btw no carrot stick hands waving or any other things stops my 2 walking out stable, door wide open ,till headcollar on and told " come on sweetie lets go" - ummm just nice quiet calm handling maybe????????
 
Spudlet said:
I don't understand, assuming the wee sod isn't charging at people in the field, what purpose is served asking him to back up before he's caught, surely it would make more sense to be teaching all that after he's been caught, as part of his groundwork...? Teaching him to lead, go forwards, backwards etc? :confused:
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I thought the idea was you only back them up if they place their shoulder in front of you??
 
But it's no good ranting at the horse and calling him a gobshite and leaving him turned out with a headcollar and lead rope still on. He wouldn't have been running up and down the walkway for 3/4s of an hour for fun or exercise. He would have been terrified. It's his owner that needs her backside kicking. I hope someone told her that she needed to come up to get the headcollar and lead rope off her youngster before an awful accident was added to his repertoire.
 
Box_Of_Frogs said:
But it's no good ranting at the horse and calling him a gobshite That's the thing, I didn't rant at HIM, I came on here and let off steam insteadand leaving him turned out with a headcollar and lead rope still on...and how do you know that I didn't go back out 20 minutes later, sit on the round bale talking to the others and feeding them until he came up to me for a few nuts and the halter came off nice and quietly? You don't. I did.. He wouldn't have been running up and down the walkway for 3/4s of an hour for fun or exercise. He would have been terrified.No he wasn't terrified at all, again, you judge. He had his pasture mates on one side next to him, and his neighbours on the other. He didn't want to be caught because he has been taught to go away when someone approaches and he's fed up to the back teeth with it. I would get within 15 feet and that would be in the middle of the walkway not with him trapped at one end and he'd charge because he wanted to get by and he is a very bright boy and learns very quickly It's his owner that needs her backside kicking. I hope someone told her that she needed to come up I did contact her of course, she can't get near him and has a 'Trainer' booked to come up and get him startedto get the headcollar and lead rope off her youngster before an awful accident was added to his repertoireNo point chasing round and round a field trying to catch him which would probably cause more danger than 20 minutes cool down at the round bale
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...as a matter of fact I train all my own horses to cope with a long rope dragging from their halters, as if it had come untied or they had pulled away. It trains them that when they step on the rope they just need to lower their heads and step back to release the pressure, no panicking then if they step on their reins or a rope. Common sense.
 
Box_Of_Frogs said:
But it's no good ranting at the horse......
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You see, the title of the thread was a clue in itself RANT, a verbal outlet of steam/frustration. Ranting is natural, it does more good than harm.

I didn't lay a finger on the horse, it isn't his fault.

Neither did I say anything that was less than polite and informative to his owner because I did take 20 minutes to calm down.
 
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Oh I do feel your pain. I have to deal with a similarly 'trained' livery that frequently gets away from his owner on the ground, only to be rewarded with a stroke and a cuddle. Yesterday he tried it on with me and when I wouldn't let go, kicked me in the shoulder! Then I had to let go!

There is nothing wrong with natural training methods, and I use a lot of them myself, but when they are put in the hands of clueless owners, they are dangerous.

Edited to add: There is nothing pink and fluffy about Parelli. On the contrary, I find a lot of their methods rather harsh.
 
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Wagtail, aint no point in recapturing a horse and then beating it up though. I had the misfortune recently to witness a member of yard staff lose hold of a horse who she really should have been prepared for, go and get some nuts, tempt him back to recapture him and then not allow him the nuts, and beat him over the head repeatedly with the rope to "teach him". Only lesson he learnt is not to be caught and when you do expect to be beaten up. Way to go.

Op im glad it all ended well and calmly. I cant for the life of me work out the purpose of he asking him to walk away when she catches him. Is it a back up a couple of steps once the headcollar is on?
 
Naturally said:
Wagtail, aint no point in recapturing a horse and then beating it up though. I had the misfortune recently to witness a member of yard staff lose hold of a horse who she really should have been prepared for, go and get some nuts, tempt him back to recapture him and then not allow him the nuts, and beat him over the head repeatedly with the rope to "teach him". Only lesson he learnt is not to be caught and when you do expect to be beaten up. Way to go.
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Totally agree! But this person just lets him go and then gives him a fuss and ends the session. The horse now believes that this is what he is supposed to do. When he is behaving he gets zero feedback or praise at all. So what is he to believe? Of course a horse (or dog for that matter) should never be beaten up in any circumstances. What she should do is quietly collect him and immediately return him to the activity (in his case long reining or lungeing) that he was doing. :)
 
I see. Nowt as queer as folk. I cant decide whats worse, novices thinking they can handle more challenging situations with nh, or novices going the aggressive route instead. Sometimes common sense doesnt make an appearance as often as it should! :)
 
Naturally said:
Op im glad it all ended well and calmly. I cant for the life of me work out the purpose of he asking him to walk away when she catches him. Is it a back up a couple of steps once the headcollar is on?
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Oh no, not a back up after being haltered. He gets sent away, is that a better expression? moved on, arms and whip (not used) used to make him move away from her before she tries to get a halter on him. This is why the horse is so confused, and his owner too I think. :(

Then when she does get him she stands a ropes length away and waggles the rope, I am not sure why.
He has absolutely no idea of leading in the conventional "I walk, you walk beside me" manner.
I am not sure how far my 'place' as YO goes regarding this colt, apart from being completely confused, he is in good shape physically and his feet don't need doing desperately, they'll wait another month.
 
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Echo Bravo said:
So I hope she's turned up to catch him. If she's also making your youngsters a bit leery, I tell her to find somewhere else to ruin her youngster.
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Apparently she did turn up about 8pm last night. The colt wasn't in the barn with Charley when I did evening stables.

I had been out and taken his halter off shortly after my rant and cooling off period. I realise my rant made me sound as if I would have left him like that all night, but unless I really couldn't have caught him I wouldn't have.

It was merely a rant and I was so :mad: Catch 22, did I leave said colt in the walkway where he could try to get over the fence, or in his paddock?
 
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Enfys - I'm guessing your ropes are the heavy,thick sort that you can tie up to a ring and pull undone easily so you don't need twine?
Anyone who's worried about a youngster 'getting tangled in a rope and potentially having an accident' should see these ropes - they're wonderful and so much better than the flimsy, dangerous things we have in the UK! No risk of getting it wrapped round a fetlock, just a useful lesson for a horse (that obviously isn't getting any from his owner!) to learn.
 
Sounds like a horrible situation but surely if this is affecting your own youngsters then you have ground to kick her off your yard?

:rolleyes: Also (without bringing up a major debate about Parelli) I don't feel you should rant about parelli-ites when she doesn't sound very good at general handling of horses, why has she got a youngster if she can't handle it? She sounds like she needs something a bit more up her street.
 
ironhorse said:
Enfys - I'm guessing your ropes are the heavy,thick sort that you can tie up to a ring and pull undone easily so you don't need twine?
Anyone who's worried about a youngster 'getting tangled in a rope and potentially having an accident' should see these ropes - they're wonderful and so much better than the flimsy, dangerous things we have in the UK! No risk of getting it wrapped round a fetlock, just a useful lesson for a horse (that obviously isn't getting any from his owner!) to learn.
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Yes, they are very thick and very heavy and about 8 feet long, maybe longer. Now you mention it I can't remember using that sort of rope in the UK.
 
Alfie&Milo said:
Sounds like a horrible situation but surely if this is affecting your own youngsters then you have ground to kick her off your yard? No I wouldn't do that, but I will ask her to remove him from the paddock before she plays anymore

:rolleyes: Also (without bringing up a major debate about Parelli) I don't feel you should rant about parelli-ites when she doesn't sound very good at general handling of horses, why has she got a youngster if she can't handle it? She sounds like she needs something a bit more up her street.
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The parelli-ite comment was more frustration than anything else, she is adamant that this is the way she wants to go, but seems confused about what comes first. Hopefully her trainer will get her started right. If someone wants to go down that route then it is up to them, not me.
 
Sounds like shes heard that if you cant catch your horse you can try sending him away, aka join up esque, only got very confused in the process. I guess the best you can do is make it clear you are available to advise if she ever wants.

Your first post did sound like you would abandon him, no mention of calling the owner, and that if you had your way he would be sent to jail in the stable and not allowed out ;) :D tis what happens when you rant I guess, happens to all of us I think!
 
She's faffing around with the "Catching Game". You're not supposed to send the horse away at all unless it leaves, the point is to encourage the horse to always come to you. Sigh.
She's obviously not following Parelli that carefully, because they would say that she doesn't have the required level in Parelli training, or "savvy" to be dealing with a young horse. It sounds as if she's relatively inexperienced in Parelli terms and should really be working with an older, easy horse.
It must be infuriating for you, but in my experience the sort of problem you're likely to encounter if you have novice owners with youngsters at livery. (Parelli or not).
 
Sounds like a) she hasnt got a diddly squat clue about Parelli or any other training method, and
b) she has created a right little Gob*****e in the process....
 
Oh this did make me smile, why is it that the people who do the parrelli thing seem to have youngsters? is it an excuse not to ride them ?the only people that I have met that ride their parrelli 'trained?' horses never seem to get out of walk, but they do have every type of special headcollar/ rope /stick that is sold with the idea. Oh dear I think I may have upset pink n fluffy peeps!
 
This is exactly how Natural Horsemanship gets turned into a circus. I use some of it myself (NOT Parelli), and it takes a lot of studying by the human to be able to work with a trained horse - god help any youngster being "taught" by a person who has just picked up a book from a website.

The result is a dangerous, untrained fully grown horse that has no knowledge of how to behave normally around humans, and sees us all as carrot stick waving prats. To be avoided at all costs. NH done properly is surely about the horse wanting to be with the human, and build a relationship.

Enfys, I hope you get this sorted, and it is quite clear to me you had your rant on here and not at the pony - something a lot of peeps would not have been able to do :)

ps your foals are gorgeous !
 
Very odd behaviour (hers not yours). I do chase away my youngsters if they invade my space but only because I cant stand them mobbing me when I go into the field - especially when its pitch black. Don't know much about Parelli but suspect she's got this completely wrong. If you have youngsters as a very very basic minimum you must be able to catch and lead them in case there is an emergency - that's all I do with mine but it sounds like she's scared to me.
 
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