RANT. Pink and fluffy would be Parelli- ites should not be allowed to ...

[fburton]

I have to agree - I really hate that "shutdown" look in a horse.

I am quite willing to believe that not all Parellied horses are "shut down" (compliant but resigned, almost robotic in response) in the way you mean. However, I have seen enough of them to know that such horses can be produced by the system.

 

[ozpoz]

Yes , they do, especially when there is a trademark on their rope!

 

[Wagtail]

I am quite willing to believe that not all Parellied horses are "shut down" (compliant but resigned, almost robotic in response) in the way you mean. However, I have seen enough of them to know that such horses can be produced by the system.

I agree. My sister is an avid Parelli practitioner and her horses are certainly not at all shut down. They are cheeky and exhuberant. But she is very intelligent in her approach and is a natural with horses. I certainly wouldn't want to follow the same path as I don't agree with some of the practices, but I do think that part of it can be extremely useful. We have some very lively 'discussions' at times!

 

[Molly'sMama]

I regularly chase my sisters horse away from me when he refuses to be caught, only takes him a little while to realise my game is not fun as he is unable to eat any grass. Must I go buy a carrot stick?!

Thats what i end up doing . Now the summer paddocks all lush, shes a nightmare to catch , so its headcollar on and im out there minimum of 15 mins :L
but i HATE parelli. nuff said. xx

 

[RunToEarth]

The thing that REALLY annoys me is the amount of people who own horses and do not have a clue- I'm certain there should be a licencing scheme if people want to own horses, if not for my sanity, to bring an end to idiots breeding from horses with bad genes, horses being mistreated and general retarded bahaviour.
I'm also certain that parelli is for idiots, basic equine training and logic completely out of the window, no respect for the horse.
I've seen Level 1 and Level 2 done, and I think it is completely backwards. I have far too much respect for my horses to poke them with sticks and wave at them. They might get a smack when they misbehave, but they come to call, they are polite on the ground and seldom do anything to merit a smack.

 

[AndySpooner]

Well, we are back from a cracking ride. Have had a quick look through the thread, nice to see that the usual suspects are still banging on about how bad Parelli is, coupled with even more ignorance about insurance. These threads get better and better.

 

[eahotson]

Ah well Andy you see you are just not as good as these people.You would then know that if you thrashed it on the bum, traditional horsemanship style, preferably because it wasn't going forward because of the dutch gag and tight noseband you would be a PROPER horse person and not a Parelli numpty.And for anyone who wants to argue that was EXACTLY how the very traditional AI I knew was teaching a novice rider who thought that because she was an AI she knew what she was doing!

 

[4faults]

The only experience I have of Parelli is a woman at a yard I was on who had a big young horse who was constantly getting a rope or stick waved in his face, he was the rudest, nastiest horse I have ever met.
She was looking after another liverys horse for awhile only for other horse to become bolshy and nasty, culminating in her attempting to double barrel her owner when she came back. Turns out the woman had been going into horses stable and sending her to the back, anytime she came forward she would receive a smack in the face so she was very defensive and headshy.

However we also had people on the yard who do things traditionally but have rude, bolshy horses. The reason this woman stood out was that her horse was just awful, so much so that she was eventually asked to leave.

An for the record she never rode her horse, EVER.

 

[Rouletterose]

Ah well Andy you see you are just not as good as these people.You would then know that if you thrashed it on the bum, traditional horsemanship style, preferably because it wasn't going forward because of the dutch gag and tight noseband you would be a PROPER horse person and not a Parelli numpty.And for anyone who wants to argue that was EXACTLY how the very traditional AI I knew was teaching a novice rider who thought that because she was an AI she knew what she was doing!

There are a million and one AI's in this country and some of them are not very good, no experience and no natural way with horses, I grant you that and it's a shame about the one you saw teaching the novice.

But Parelli is actually cruel, I did not buy all the horses I've owned over the years to have some bl**dy idiot in cowboy jeans and chaps tell me I should be getting him/her to stand on a bl**dy box, straddle a pi****g great balloon, push said balloon around arena with nose, etc etc, why don't they all go and join the frigging circus!!!!

 

[AndySpooner]

This is getting really pointless, when we start going on about who has the worse horses or who rides less.

I know some excellent traditionalists, as well as some crap ones, same as for NH really.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Can anyone tell me where I can get the very long thick leadropes from.

 

[Geri]

I must correct myself, the horses and ponies eat grass, drink from time to time and wander about a bit. With the right person I suspect all of them could be ridden. )

I don't have any objection to people keeping horses and doing nothing with them, I was adding my two pence worth into the "nh people don't ride" debate.

LOL, as your neighbour i feel i must correct you. To my knowledge there are a lot of horses on this lane that cannot be ridden, those that can be are.

So the right person for these horses would be ?? lol

Sorry to deviate from original thread but just felt i needed to clarify this.

 

[Natch]

This is getting really pointless

Yup

 

[Golf Girl]

This is getting really pointless

There really ought to be a dedicated 'Natural Horsemanship' section in the Horse and Hound forums. That way, those who are interested in it and want to discuss it should be able to do so without the 'haters' deliberately setting out to de-rail the discussion as is their wont. As you say Andy, there is a handful of 'usual suspects' who always crawl out of the woodwork when NH and in particular, the 'P' word is mentioned and start throwing ridiculous statements and insults around. Sad really

 

[Kokopelli]

So if I want to hack in a hackamore, I'd have to have it specifically added into my insurance?

It depends, if your insurance just says 'bridle' you might be okay but mine specifically says bitted bridle. It might be worth double checking.

coupled with even more ignorance about insurance. These threads get better and better.

Not really ignorance when I know for a fact unless my horse hasn't got a bridle on whilst on the road he will not be covered, even if I'm just leading.

If you're willing to take the risk that they will cover you in a headcollar then be my guest but that is not a situation I would like to be in.

 

[HashRouge]

I know diddly squat about the ins and outs of Parelli. What I do know is that I've seen some unpleasant videos featuring Linda Parelli working with horses, which suggest she hasn't got a clue what she's doing. On the other hand, I also know that my friend has used Parelli with her gelding since he was a yearling and he is now one of the sweetest, loveliest, well-mannered horses I've ever met. He's had a go at dressage, XC, SJ, Le Trec and endurance and can be handled by any one. I don't know what that means really...maybe just that it's people who ruin horses, regardless of what methods they use.

 

[Tinypony]

LOL, as your neighbour i feel i must correct you. To my knowledge there are a lot of horses on this lane that cannot be ridden, those that can be are.

So the right person for these horses would be ?? lol

Sorry to deviate from original thread but just felt i needed to clarify this.

I think you've got the wrong lane Geri. But even if you had, the point wasn't that the horses could or couldn't be ridden, it was that there are plenty of people who don't "do" Parelli who also choose not to ride. If you were actually in the same lane as me you would agree that the only person seen riding along it is me, and that's been pretty infrequent over the winter!

 

[Tinypony]

It depends, if your insurance just says 'bridle' you might be okay but mine specifically says bitted bridle. It might be worth double checking.



Not really ignorance when I know for a fact unless my horse hasn't got a bridle on whilst on the road he will not be covered, even if I'm just leading.

If you're willing to take the risk that they will cover you in a headcollar then be my guest but that is not a situation I would like to be in.

Re insurance, it's easy to be insured to ride bitless, I've given some info earlier in the thread.

 

[unbalanced]

It depends, if your insurance just says 'bridle' you might be okay but mine specifically says bitted bridle. It might be worth double checking.
.

Mine says nothing. Who are you insured with, if you don't mind me asking? Does that mean you can't even use a conventional hackamore? It's a bit worrying because as you point out, a lot of people might not check.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

There really ought to be a dedicated 'Natural Horsemanship' section in the Horse and Hound forums. That way, those who are interested in it and want to discuss it should be able to do so without the 'haters' deliberately setting out to de-rail the discussion as is their wont. As you say Andy, there is a handful of 'usual suspects' who always crawl out of the woodwork when NH and in particular, the 'P' word is mentioned and start throwing ridiculous statements and insults around. Sad really

What a very good idea!

Then people like OP could rant about their specific situation without the thread being hi-jacked by followers of the Parellis, who appear to have taken this rant as a personal insult and turned the thread, yet again into a 'justification' of their methods.
OP you have all my sympathy - I do wonder why some people seem to deliberately get horses that they cannot deal with.

 

[Golf Girl]

What a very good idea!

Then people like OP could rant about their specific situation without the thread being hi-jacked by followers of the Parellis, who appear to have taken this rant as a personal insult

Er, I think the title of the thread was intended to provoke confrontation.

 

[AndySpooner]

Off out for another nice long hack this morning.

Weather is ok, not quite as warm as yesterday.

 

[AmyMay]

Does that mean you can't even use a conventional hackamore? It's a bit worrying because as you point out, a lot of people might not check.

I can't imagine that an insurance company would have a problem with a hackamore, as it is a bridle offering you ridden control of the horse whilst riding it because of its specific action. Whereas a headcollar offers no particular control.

Always best to check with your insurance company if you're intending to ride in anything other than a bridle I would suggest.

 

[Jennyharvey]

I can't imagine that an insurance company would have a problem with a hackamore, as it is a bridle offering you ridden control of the horse whilst riding it because of its specific action. Whereas a headcollar offers no particular control.

Always best to check with your insurance company if you're intending to ride in anything other than a bridle I would suggest.

The SEIB insurance company says that as long as your in control of your horse, you are fully insured.

Why do you think you have no control in a headcollar, wheras you do it a bit or hackamore? All works on pressure being applied. It doesnt matter where, the mouth or nose, you apply the pressure, the horse will learn to respond to it the same way.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

The Highway Code advises horses to be ridden with a bridle and saddle on the roads. While it isn't a law, much of the code isn't, but if you have an accident, ignoring the highway code isn't going to encourage any insurance company reach into their pockets to payout.
There's a rider near me who rides her lovely youngsters on the village roads with no saddle, no hat, no hi viz - just a headcollar. Very impressive, but I could ride my super safe bombproofs like that too, only, I'm the numpty riding with a hat, hi viz, bridle and saddle. Why ? Because its responsible.

 

[Tinypony]

Surely this conversation would be a joke in some other countries where riding bitless in all sorts of shapes and forms is considered more normal? Does Buck Brannaman worry about control when riding in a rope halter or bosal? I don't think so, and he certainly doesn't have any lack of control. Riding bitless is part of every day life for many horse people, and with the right training and experience it is as safe as riding with a bit. (Ponders that some people aren't particularly safe riding with a bit, and I suppose that is down to training and experience as well...)
Google Buck Brannaman if you haven't heard of him. He's just another cowboy.

Don't get me wrong, I don't see this as a "them and us" situation. If you prefer to ride in a bit or bitless, that's your choice and I wouldn't criticise it. I just think it's a shame that there isn't more understanding of the alternatives to riding with a bit, and the application and reasons for riding bitless. Maybe the BHS could expand their knowledge a bit and then filter some of this into their training?

By the way - it's looking lovely and grey out of my window. Could it be that the rain is on it's way? I've got a nice little riding paddock set up at the moment so I'm out of here to play before it starts. I reckon I can get to ride two of mine (bitless) before I have to drag myself back to the desk to work. (Cheers and vanishes...).

 

[AmyMay]

Why do you think you have no control in a headcollar, wheras you do it a bit or hackamore? All works on pressure being applied. It doesnt matter where, the mouth or nose, you apply the pressure, the horse will learn to respond to it the same way.

I think that once you understand the principles of how a hackamore or bitted bridle works, you'll be in a better position to understand how differently they act from a headcollar.

 

[unbalanced]

I think that once you understand the principles of how a hackamore or bitted bridle works, you'll be in a better position to understand how differently they act from a headcollar.

I suppose the thing is that there's a whole spectrum of the things. When AndySpooner said he was riding in a headcollar I'm guessing he would have been riding in what I would call a hackamore which is this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NATURAL-HACKA...r_Equipment&hash=item23099a7ca3#ht_2376wt_846
as opposed to the flat webbing halter most people use to tie their horse up or the English hackamore that looks like this:
http://www.totally-tack.co.uk/acatalog/shires_equestrian_english_hackamore.html
that most people think of when you say hackamore. And then there's all the other ones in between like the Dr Cook and these ones http://www.bitlessandbarefoot.com/bitless-shop.php that have other different actions.
JennyHarvey I agree you can train a horse to stop reliably from whatever cue you like whether that is nose pressure mouth pressure neck pressure or whatever. My instructor has a funny story about an ex racehorse she used to ride in a bitted bridle and she had problems stopping. She eventually taught him a one rein stop and then they would stand in the centre of the field and she would smoke a cigarette and he would graze. As her cigarettes were in her pocket, he learnt that his cue to stop was her putting her hand in her pocket!
Personally I don't believe you can force a horse to stop whatever you put in its mouth. I weigh 60kgs, my pony weighs 400kgs - the only way she will ever do anything for me is if I ask her nicely and convince her that it would be a good idea - making her just isn't going to happen.

 

[Shortcut]

One thing I can't stand in a horse is bad manners and they definatly need to learn from a young age what is wrong and right. Firm but kind is the way I go about with my youngsters.

There is a lady who rides past my yard with a thin rope head collar with the carrot stick thing. I'm not one for gadgets but I don't think its safe riding on the road with just a head collar... I think natural horsemanship is a great way to work with horses and I admire Monty Roberts in the way he has changed people's thoughts on horses. But I think parelli is almost a money making scheme... :S It's so expensive for one of those kits and I don't think playing games and all this "alpha" thing is that productive, although I don't pretend to know anything about parrelli.

If she has asked you to trim the horse she should have it ready for you in the stable! Bit cheeky asking you to trim it then you have to get it in from the field!

 

[Alfie&Milo]

I feel its sad that there are so many extreme haters of both traditional and natural horsemanship.
I practise NH but not many of my friends do (we don't argue against each others training methods!), it's not about methods and types, it is all about how it is done. Many of the examples being used against Parelli in this thread sound like a frustrated owner that doesn't understand how they should be doing it properly and why it doesn't work.

People get frustrated and impatient, it happens in both traditionalists and NH, we all have different opinions but it angers me when people put so much hatred towards the general group of NH people or traditionalists, there are good and bad people in each don't be so judgemental!