RC Horse Trials Disqualifications - Area 7 & 8

I don't think the area reps really hold sufficient juristiction to make that decision in the first instance and it should have been referred to head office in the first instance so that the situation didn't occur in the first place.

There may have been several other individuals/teams who were in the same position but having read the rules (and not received the memo.. which, particularly as a individual you might not get unless it was circulated to all members (there is a lot of loose links possible there!)) chose not to compete.

As a national organisation I just don't see how it can be one rule for most of the country but bendable elsewhere.
 
Replying from my phone so haven't the time to go in to detail but the rules are quite clear. Sometimes it's about making a choice I'm afraid, and this certainly isn't the only situaution in life where people have to do that.
 
FinnMcCoul said:
tbh the organsation of RC Q at local level is a farce......
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You have to remember though that people organising qualifiers are practically all volunteers and do not get paid. Many involved may have never run an event before and usually it is one of the Area clubs that leads on running a qualifier each club taking turns to do so (not the Area Reps). Some certainly have better organisers and experience than others but it's still a thankless task and you have understand without them there wouldn't be a qualifier at all.
 
sussexbythesea said:
You have to remember though that people organising qualifiers are practically all volunteers and do not get paid. Many involved may have never run an event before and usually it is one of the Area clubs that leads on running a qualifier each club taking turns to do so (not the Area Reps). Some certainly have better organisers and experience than others but it's still a thankless task and you have understand without them there wouldn't be a qualifier at all.
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Not disputing any of that, but there are too many indians and not enough cheifs. Lack of direction and management = disaster
 
Zebedee said:
Replying from my phone so haven't the time to go in to detail but the rules are quite clear. Sometimes it's about making a choice I'm afraid, and this certainly isn't the only situaution in life where people have to do that.
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Agree with above, it has always been the rule that you cannot go over the same course, before the championships or qualifiers. That is what is in the rule book, and all chef d equipe should be aware of this. The fact that an area rep gets it wrong is unfortunate, and they really should be apologising. Riding clubs, in my opinion are getting away from what they were originally meant to be, a place for people who did not want to take place in affiliated competitions in ANY discipline, for one reason or another, my reason was that I did not feel happy competing against superior competitors or for that matter children on ponies, who really should be a member of a pony club. Riding clubs were for fun, and it did not matter whether your horse/pony (lots of us competed on our outgrown ponies and they and their riders went on forever) looked and went like plodders, we were all the same and the crack was mighty. Stoneleigh in the 70/80's was the scene of many a long party going on to dawn, riding clubs from all over the UK including northern ireland spent months fundraising, arrived stabled up, went up to our rooms in the hostels, (will never forget a member of our riding club coming out of the shower room naked screaming about a spider) and had a marvellous time. No pressure, just really really good fun.
 
If BRC do decide to enforce this rule I would like to know whether the area rep will be held in any way accountable. I asked my club to check and double check that I was able to compete at the qualifier and they acted in good faith upon the information given to them by the area rep. My horse certainly didn't need the extra run and I would not have competed had I not been given false information.

The way I see it is that they were happy to take our money but not willing to let us qualify. Had they made their position clear from the start the qualifier would probably have received insufficient entries to go ahead and no revenue would have been generated.
 
Freddie19 said:
Agree with above, it has always been the rule that you cannot go over the same course, before the championships or qualifiers. That is what is in the rule book, and all chef d equipe should be aware of this. The fact that an area rep gets it wrong is unfortunate, and they really should be apologising.
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Huge efforts were made to ensure it was NOT the same course! Being a sad old bint I just found the following: Includes duties of Official Steward (role of Area Rep)
 
Thank you at last someone who has common sense. All I can say is read the BRC Rule BooK!!!! Its on line!!!!!!!! Its up to you to make sure you are not breaking the rules not blaming someone else.
 
Dee O'Dorant said:
Huge efforts were made to ensure it was NOT the same course! Being a sad old bint I just found the following: Includes duties of Official Steward (role of Area Rep)
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will not open on my computer, but, I should have clarified what I typed as course. In my time in riding clubs (long time ago) it was not course but venue.

In other words, if you had competed at an event at say "wood farm" you could not then then compete for riding club at "wood farm" even if course was completely different. Sorry I did not make myself clear before.
 
Santa_Claus said:
The rules are clear though, I haven't entered Stonar BE as will be doing the RC areas 10 days later. Over a different height but that doesn't matter the rules are the rules. Very sad that it has come to the above though
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Yes, I am in the same position. It was made very clear weeks ago that we could not enter the BE event.
 
Have just managed to open link to data mentioned before: Am now really horrified have just read in it and I quote "introduce team members to each other" this is in bit for Chef d Equipe, introduce team members to each other, this is riding club, for goodness sake, what has happened!!
 
I found this one rather interesting in the role of Chef d’Equipe

Thank the team members and individual
competitors.

As the Chef d’Equipe often gives up a days competing in order to support the team in an unpaid volunteer position surely the team should be thanking them!!!
 
Quoting from BRC on roles of official steward:

• Advise & support organiser / event secretary
• Advise on the rules
• Walk x-c course (more than one visit)
• Advise & support organiser / event secretary
• Brief officials, ensure all are familiar with rules
• Advise on application of rules & ensure event is run in
accordance with rules

The rule in question states that; "No pony or horse may have been ridden over any fences used in the Area Qualifier during
the two weeks (13 days) prior to the cross-country phase of the qualifier."

The area rep interpreted this rule to state we may compete at the qualifier if the courses were completely different from the BE the previous weekend, which they were.

The area rep has asked not to be mentioned by name in any written discussions about this subject.
 
ldequestrian said:
The rule in question states that; "No pony or horse may have been ridden over any fences used in the Area Qualifier during
the two weeks (13 days) prior to the cross-country phase of the qualifier."

The area rep interpreted this rule to state we may compete at the qualifier if the courses were completely different from the BE the previous weekend, which they were.
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And assuming no portables were used at both events (whether moved or not), and the two courses used entirely different fences with no overlap whatsoever then I'd say the area rep is correct and those unhappy about what happened have a very good case!
 
It doesnt affect me as I did novice but I was told that first and last fences were the same so that fails? I wasnt at the BE so dont know.
 
But really were the courses competely different, no steps, ditches, or any fences used in both competitions? Most XC venues don't have two courses at each level.
 
Ok just want to clarify a few points.
Firstly no dispensataion was given for any of the rules to be broken, by anyone involved with BRC at area level or above do so.
Secondly reinstating those who were disqualified for breaking the rules would directly penalise those from all BRC area's who do abide by the BRC rulebook, & no matter how 'silly' some make think this rule is, it is still a rule. BRC rules are formulated by the members of the National Executive Committee which is made up of people who have been voted in by their area. If anyone wants to object to any of the rules for whatever reason they can do so either via their area rep or directly to the office. These matters are discussed by the entire NEC before any decisions are reached or changes made, so process is a truly democratic one.
From replies on this thread it would seem that the majority are not only aware of the rules, but are also prepared to abide by them. What BRC are doing in this instance is acting in the best interests of all members, (not just the few who knowingly ignored the rulebook) by enforcing the rulebook.
 
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Santa_Claus said:
Just because a portable is in a different position doesn't mean it isn't the same fence. Sorry I'm still siding with the rules are the rules and the area rep Hould have sought verification from head office before 'bending' the rules!!
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The area rep didn't give give that permission.

I totally agree with you on the rest.
 
Santa_Claus said:
Just because a portable is in a different position doesn't mean it isn't the same fence. Sorry I'm still siding with the rules are the rules and the area rep Hould have sought verification from head office before 'bending' the rules!!
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Agree it seems quite plain to me it says 'any fences' not 'course'.

Annoying outcome but if I were the Chef D'equipe I would be looking at the Rules myself and clarifying with HQ particularly as it seems pretty unambiguous to me and I would have questioned the Area reps interpretation.
 
I have always understood the ruling to be about the fences at the venue not the set course, hence why you may not go schooling (if the venue is open for schooling) two weeks before a riding club event there (nor a BE event though some places seem happy to take money and not worry about those rules).

Some venues have lots of different jumps and can create different courses, but not many have enough jumps to run two courses that don't include a single fence from the other course (such as water, steps, banks etc).

The rule has been there for years and years. I imagine many people didn't even ask the area rep just understood the rule and didn't enter one competition or the other.

Our riding club sent out a message to all team members before the FOH qualifier a reminder that they may not compete in an ODE run at the same venue the week before the FOH qualifier for this exact reason (again the venue had plenty of fences so courses would have been quite different). I can't see how one area can interpret the rules to suit them?
 
Its so sad that Riding Clubs have come to this, but until something better comes along for Grassroot riders there is nothing out there for teams. And Riding Club training has been poor for quite a few years. I am not joining again next year and quite a few of my friends have not rejoin this year for the reasons that have been said above. Hope your idea about BE takes off!
 
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