Really Need Some Help (Long and Sad)

[Spellbound]

Hi All
Really am looking for some opinions, and reassurance, is a long tale so bear with me.
I have a very much loved 16.3, 13 year old mare. She has been with me for six and a half years after being a mistreated show jumper.
We have a lot of vetinary issues and time gone on things are breaking down. She broke a hind leg 6 years ago and recovered. Diagnosed with Spavin which required surgery and recoverd all was well for a while. Chipped her Gaskin in the other hind leg and yep pulled through again.
For the last few months have struggled with soundness in her original bad leg. I know believe (and confirmed by physio) there is discomfort coming in her front feet when going down slopes and uneven ground.
She is under the vet and am in discussions with them again. At the moment we are trying the bute route which isn't working. This last week she is on 4 a day and still lame. She is happy in the field and runs around.
She is insured and covered for loss of use (waste of time). This whole thing is making me so depressed, I decided that I couldn't do this anymore and to me it was time to let her go. Many don't agree with me and think I am cruel to not let her retire out to a retirement place.
Although I had claims on both back leg injurys, I have checked my policy for the last 5 years and only the left hind is excluded. I spoke to insurance this morning and they said it was unlikely they would pay out, if the main reason is related to her hind right leg (which it is, but is not stated anywhere to be excluded).
Not sure what I expect people to say really just needed to vent. Please be sure I love my horse very much and am distraught at the thought of PTS but am I being cruel?
WIthout any money from insurance this will sadly be the end of the road with horses for me.

 

[Geraldine]

It is a hard decision to make. It may not be as easy as sending her to a retirement home as lots of them (and rescue centres) are full due to the economic downturn.

I'm sure you will do the right thing and ((((((HUGS)))))) for you both. xxx

 

[tasteofchristmaschaos]

It is always worth giving insurance a go - the worst they can do is say no, and the best is that you can get some money.
You don't mention what workload she is in. Could she be sound as a happy hacker?
As for the 'being cruel by not letting her retire', it isn't for other people to make judgements. You are trying to do the best for your horse. Do you think she would enjoy retirement? There are some who retirement doesn't suit, and for those horses, then yes, it is kinder to be PTS. If you think she would enjoy a slower pace of life, and is field sound then yes, you could retire her (as long as you can afford to do so.)

 

[SaraG]

Are those people who are saying you are cruel to be thinking of putting her to sleep willing to take her on in retirement?

No, I didn't think so.

Horses do not understand the concept of death coming in the future. They do know if something is "not alive" and can react accordingly, but they don't stand around worrying about it.

They also understand pain and "not being right", as do all animals. However, when an animal is "not right" others do the "natural" thing - in the real meaning of that word - and drive them out to die so they do not attract predators to the herd.

You can offer a much more dignified end than that. You are unlikely to do so lightly and will doubtless feel guilty for months, but your horse will not know anything about it.

 

[0ldmare]

Oh poor you, what a difficult situation. It comes through loud and clear in your post that you love your horse very much and have her interests at heart

But can I ask who you are insured with? If something is not listed as excluded, then by definition it is included. So, they should darn well pay up! I would go back and argue the case very strongly and insist that they pay up. Me thinks they are just trying to wriggle out of paying. I would threaten them with the financial ombudsman http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/ And if that doesnt work I would speak to the Ombudsman Dont give up just yet!

 

[Natch]

Before you make a judgement on if you are to retire her, or if you have to think about PTS, what does your vet say?

Is she capable of being field-sound and happy? Is there a chance she will come right with X amount of money and/or time?

By all means vent here, but as for help making the decision, you really need your vet's help.

x

 

[chocolate86]

4 butes a day is a lot and I would expect field soundness, I think you have obviously given her a lot of time, love and the best life you could, perhaps if you are already thinking it then it would be kinder to PTS as her quality of life will probably deteriorate. Retirement would probably only be good for her if she were field sound.
Good luck with what ever decision you make for her, there are no right and wrongs, you can only do your best.

 

[Spellbound]

Sorry original post was all a bit garppled rubbish
She has really only been a light hack, little bit of schooling last few years, (even then been very careful with her).
She hasn't been in any work for months now, as was slightly lame and stiff. Dropped condition with lack of grass which is now coming back as moved fields.
Guess she been pretty semi retired for couple of years now. I can't afford two horses and some believe I am being cruel or even evil to put her down rather than send her to a retirement home (where I pay to have her there). She is a lovely horse but really not a cheap one to keep.
I thought I was being a loving and responsible owner by making a hard decision to end her days with me where she lives like a princess and is loved and nothing bad can happen to her. Just not so sure now

 

[MurphysMinder]

Only you can make the decision, but if she is still lame on 4 bute a day then maybe the time has come to free her from pain. Doyou trust your vet, can you have a good talk with him as to whether he feels her quality of life is affected and maybe that will help you make a decision.

ETS. Have just read your 2nd post, seems to me you have made the decision and interfering people are trying to talk you out of it. Sounds as if you have your mare's very best interests at heart, I think in your position I would pts

.

 

[Lippyx]

What a tough decision, and I wish I would never be in that situation, but alas, if you have horses, or any animal, you will be one day!!

I would sit down with a pen and paper, and write it all down. Write down what would need to be done, and how long it will take, how much it will cost etc. Ask yourself, can you afford it, because no matter how much you love your horse, it will always come down to money at the end of the day!!

Personally if it was me, I would be thinking of the PTS option, but as the others say, you can make it very dignified and how you want it, as apposed to someone whose horse has a horrific accident and needs PTS quickly. I know what I would prefer!!

Hugs to you both!!

 

[Geraldine]

You will obviously do the right thing and you know what? Rollocks to everyone else's opinion. I would have a frank discussion with the vet and be guided by their advice. Whatever decision you make I certainly won't judge you and I suspect the majority of people on here won't either.

It's easy to not make THAT decision - I had to watch a badly arthritic pony suffer for many months before the right thing was done (after much begging by me to put the dear old girl to sleep).

 

[FestiveSpirit]

I had pretty much the same situation with one of my horses - he had navicular in both front feet (confirmed by MRI scan, one foot worse than another) and I spent a year trying to get him sound. After that year he was still lame in walk when on 1 bute a day, and I made the decision to have him PTS (he beat up other horses he shared a field with, so would not have made a companion!)

I got all kinds of emotional blackmail and grief from people who thought I should retire him to grass (he was lame out in the field too) but I knew that although it was such a hard decision it was the right decision for him and that was what mattered most to me

 

[Maesfen]

[ QUOTE ]
4 Bute per day!!!

oh dear.......

always hard, but if she were mine, i'd let her go before the winter brings unknown pain and further problems..

not easy, but probably for the best...for her.

take care

[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly I have to agree with this completely as I, personally would feel cruel myself if I let her continue but that is me, I can't speak for you or wish to put words into your mouth either but the people that are telling you it's cruel to PTS, obviously haven't put themselves in your shoes and therefore have no right to criticise you at all whichever decision you make.
As JM says, 4 bute a day is a shocking amount and won't do her insides any good in the long run either.

Hugs, it's never easy but you are being a caring owner just by putting her before your own feelings.

 

[JosieSmith]

What a hard decision to have to make, and shame on those people trying to make you feel guilty, don't they realise that you'll feel guilty enough anyway (with no reason to imo). She's your horse, you know what will suit her best, and please please don't let those people talk you into doing something you don't want to do.

Agree with most posts above - if field sound and you can afford it, retire her, if not, then pts is probably kindest. If you do decide to pts, don't let anyone make you feel guilty (I know that's probably impossible, I just don't want you to feel any worse than you would already without doubts being sewn by other people).

 

[Spellbound]

I am waiting for the vet to call back again as he wanted to try and inject the joint again, she has had it three times and it worked but it has not lasted so long in later stages.
With the other things developing now, it just feels pointless to go through more. She hates box rest. I am also having blood tests done to check her liver as I think with the weight loss and everything else there is possibly more going on.
I am finding it so hard to define field sound????
To me that was maybe slightly lame when running around in the field. She is lame all the time and lame in walk. That to me means pain. The bute hasn't made much difference to the lameness at all. To me lame means pain and sadly a pain I can't take away without the ultimate decision.
This is where I and many disagree as yes she is happy in the field. Yes she rolls and gets up easily. Yes she bucks and out runs the herd and spins with the best of them. She may suffer a bit more that night and be stiffer but she is still lame. This is why others at the yard are against me as they think she is fine out in the field as she displays all those behaviours.

 

[SunSmile]

4 bute a day at only 13 years of ages, theoretically she could go on living for another 15 plus years, thats an awful lot of bute to be pumping into her and if she is still lame on it......
If she lame, she is most probably in pain, i dont think any one who owns any animal would like for it to be in constant pain, in my eyes it would be time to say good bye and anybody who thought i was cruel for letting my horse be free from a life of pain needs to re-evalute their opinions!

I think deep down you know what to do and i know you will make the right decision for your horse.
x

 

[RuthnMeg]

[ QUOTE ]
4 Bute per day!!!

oh dear.......

always hard, but if she were mine, i'd let her go before the winter brings unknown pain and further problems..

not easy, but probably for the best...for her.

take care

[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly, I too agree. The winter can be cruel and as we know cold weather makes joints ache more.
I'd send her off to horsey heaven before things deteriate more and then you will regret that. No sanctuary, no retirement home will choose to have a horse that is on as much medication as she is, and iam sure you also know that. She is expensive to keep treating - and for what? She is still lame and therefore although maybe happy she is in pain. The right thing for her is the worst thing for you - but as an owner thats our duty. You will have many treasured memories and will be able to smile with pride knowing she pulled through what most others horses couldn't.
Big hugs.

 

[PippiPony]

If not sound in the paddock on 4 bute a day, I think you probably know the right decision to make. I will forever be grateful to my vet for telling me how brave I was in having my mare PTS when she shot up from having 1 bute a day to 4 then to 7 in the space of just over a week. Too many people would have left her in the field to “enjoy the summer”. When really they could not face having them PTS.
IMHO why put a horse in retirement on 4 bute a day? Long term usage at the level would not be good & if it is still not going to be free from pain at that level, why keep it going?
I think you are being very brave, listen to your heart & not what others tell you to think.

 

[AmyMay]

How is she shod in front? Shortening the toes and putting on bar shoes may well be of some assistance. It would certainly be worth the farrier and the vet having a little chat?? Made a massive difference to my horse.

X-rays in the grand scheme of things don't cost a fortune - and I'd just throw your insurance at it to find out what's going on.

If it's coffin joint damage or navicular - then you know that you're probably looking at the end of the road. However if it's a slight pedal bone rotation that good farriery can help resolve - then I'd be going for it.

Good luck, and do let us know what you decide.


EDT: Sorry - just read your follow up posts. Poor love it does sound time to say goodbye. Hugs to you, and good luck.

 

[Kat]

To be honest I think your mare has been lucky to have someone prepared to nurse her through all her problems to date, she could easily have been PTS following one of her other injuries.

If she is lame in walk on four bute then this suggests she is in quite a lot of pain. Talk to your vet and I am sure he will advise you but I don't think you should feel guilty about having her PTS given all of her problems.

If you are worried about what other people say, tell them that she was in pain and the vet said it was for the best. They don't need to know it was your decision.

 

[cob1]

Your heart will tell you what you need to do.

Last year i was in the same position and was apprehensive to PTS as i was worried what people might say.

I eventually decided and told friends, and they all totally understood. After all it is your personal decision.

The day my TB was PTS i was absolutely gutted, but i got a sense of relief in that he was at peace and not suffering anymore - he had KS, Nav, sacrioliac probs, hock spavins and had not recovered from an big operation on his knee when near to his joint capsule which had got infected.

He had lost the sparkle in his eye, and would just stand in the field not eating - he was telling me he had had enough bless his little soul. I think it is the most humane thing to do if an animal is suffering and the situation cannot be improved in the long term.

 

[Happy Horse]

You sound very reasonable and sensible to me. I couldn't keep a horse indefinitely on four Bute a day as a field ornament. If you can't afford to keep her as a pet, which is totally understandable then you are considering the kindest option for her.

Are the people saying you are being cruel offering to pay the costs of keeping her as a pet? I doubt it.

 

[Zebedee]

The long term prognosis for this horse is very poor, so please don't spend too much more money on having the joint injected.
You are being a loving & caring owner by recognising that the time has come.
Don't let others who aren't as strong as you are influence your decision.

 

[Mithras]

I agree with what you are saying - you sound as if you have tried everything and it is you who have seen your horse lame day after day. I often wonder though whether the veterinary route causes more harm than good sometimes. I don't think 4 Bute a day can be good for the liver long term. Are there any other routes you could go down that you have not tried? Such as equine osteopath - something could be out of place - stretching, strengthening surrounding muscles because something is out of balance somewhere, supplements (especially magenesium). Apologies if you have tried all this already.

 

[joeanne]

Putting her to sleep is cruel???
Dear lord what awful people to give advice like that!
If she is unsound on 4 bute a day, I would have to agree with everone else and say maybe now is the time to say goodbye, before the cold weather sets in and causes her even more pain.
She was very lucky in finding you.

 

[Angua2]

Bless her and bless you, but I think it is time to let her go while she is happy. If she is still lame on 4 bute then you already know your answer.

 

[Joeb21]

Oh Hun!
I think you know in your heart, that it would be kindest thing to do for your dear mare.

I had this about for weeks ago, It was very hard as he looked very well "on the out side" , I had my boy for 14 years and it was very hard to make that decision? but i knew in my heart it would be the right thing to do,
You can never be a day to early but you can be a day too late, This was on my mind a lot!
and i would of been heart broken if i left it to late for him, he went with his head held up high and with dignity ,although he was on 2-3 bute a day.
Pic of my boy , day before he was pts, 21 years old.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

You obviously know your horse well, have spent a lot of money and time getting right from all her problems and are now making the best decision for her. 4 bute a day is a lot and will cause internal damage if continued long-term. If she is lame then I agree that no matter what her other behaviour she MUST be in pain. The only other thing left to try IME is magnetic boots, which I had a good experience with when looking at pts by the end of the week for my TBxWelshD mare who had arthritis and was hobbling on 2 bute per day.
Don't worry about what other liveries etc say, you know your horse best.

 

[Happytohack]

I don't envy you and there will be plenty of people who condemn you for even thinking of having your mare PTS. However, the facts are that horses are very expensive to keep, she has had numerous veterinary problems and is still lame on 4 bute a day. You are being a loving owner by thinking of ending her days now, with you. If she were mine I would consider the following:
1. Is there a chance she will ever be field sound
2. If so, will she be happy retired
3. And if yes to both the above, can you afford to keep her as an expensive pet.

If yes to all three of the above, then fine - otherwise perhaps she should be PTS at home before the winter.

Sorry to be so blunt - but I have 2 oldies myself who are happily retired here at home. However 7 years ago, I had a horse who was very, very unhappy being retired and he was PTS and I have never regretted that decision.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[SirenaXVI]

4 bute a day is an awful lot of bute and she is still unsound.

It is ultimately your decision but she is obviously in a deal of pain and I too would let her go before the winter sets in.

This is hard for you but one thing is for sure, you are most certainly NOT a cruel owner and ignore those that say you are, it would be far more cruel to keep her in pain imho.