Really upset - what do I do now?

I think that H sounds like a man not fully in control. I would leave the yard as no, I would not trust someone like that around my dogs or horses. The fact that he has happily play fought with the dog on other occasions, yet saw fit to react in such an extreme manner on this occasion does not sound like a stable personality to me. Whether or not a dog should be allowed to play fight is irrelevant as 'H' quite clearly accepted and encouraged this behaviour and therefore condoned it. Then acted in a totally unpredictable and violent way.
 
If that was my yard the situation would never have happened. You pay for livery, not dog exercising rights. It sounds as if your dog was on the yard without you being there, not acceptable in my world. It never fails to astonish me that people believe that when they pay livery they pay to take their dogs, their children, their friends, their barbeques etc etc. In my yard this would be resolved by you moving your horse, with a weeks notice!
 
I have four dogs but have a policy whereby liveries are not allowed to bring their dogs. But that is up to each individual yard. The OP was doing nothing wrong bringing her dog onto the yard because there were no rules stating dogs are not alowed.Though personally, I would always ask permission to bring a dog or even another person.
 
personally i think its unacceptable for H to kick your dog, i play fight with my dog and she bites then but equally i also just play with her normaly, throw a stick, tug of war and she doesn't bite then, she never takes other peoples attempts to play fight seriously, she looks at them all confused and walks off. she can have children pulling her ears and putting their hands in her mouth and she will be so carefull to keep her mouth open so that she doesn't accidentally bite them, she doesn't mind them pinching her or even hugging her constantly or poking her nose yet when i play fight with her she does bite me but can tell the difference between me, children and other people. she knows its not accaptable to play fight with anyone else even if they want to so saying that dogs that play fight and bite while play fighting are dangerous isn't true, every dog is different, i would never attempt to play fight with a dog thats not mine or a dog i only see at the weekends, and if i did try to and the dog bit me i'd have to accept that i've caused that to happen cuz if i didn't play fight with the dog it wouldn't have bit me. and yes i'd be afraid of my other animals being around that person, one of our youngsters has a habit of giving you a kiss but she doesn't get why people run off when she wants to give them a kiss, she puts her nose in your face but also puts her ears back, she doesn't mean any harm and she'd never bit you she just wants a kiss on her muzzle and once you give her one she pricks her ears up and asks for more, this is not aggressive behaviour in any way but i know that it may be read as one so i make sure that only people that are ok with it interact with her. simple as.
hope all this makes sense :)
 
I generally sympathise with you, and feel some of the other replies have added 2+2 and made 5, rather than reading your posts closely.
It appears to me that the OH has known your dog for a while and instigated the play-fight knowing your dogs temperament and likely behaviour. I also understand the type of "bite" your dog gave him, and that you were stood nearby.
I'm not condoning your allowing your dog to "bite" during play-fights, but some dogs are naturally "mouthy", and anyone who claims to be a dog owner/lover and can't see this is living in cloud cukoo-land. My dog is the softest natured dog in the world, and has never shown any signs of aggression towards anyone or anything, however she can get over-excited and become a little mouthy when playing, and on the few occasions it has developed into a nip she has been reprimanded.

Had the OH made an obvious knee-jerk reaction to the bite by yelling/striking out/kicking once, then fair enough, and the dog would have known he had gone too far and considered itself reprimanded. My issue is that he kicked the dog three times in an obvious temper which is definately over the top and therefore totally unacceptable, and I feel you should have confronted him there and then.
If I felt someone went over the top reprimanding my dog in front of me, I would be fuming and they would be fully aware of how I felt in no uncertain terms.
I join those who suggest keeping your dog in the car whenever the OH is around, and I hope this doesn't damage your relationship with the YO.
 
trottingon said:
I generally sympathise with you, and feel some of the other replies have added 2+2 and made 5, rather than reading your posts closely.
It appears to me that the OH has known your dog for a while and instigated the play-fight knowing your dogs temperament and likely behaviour. I also understand the type of "bite" your dog gave him, and that you were stood nearby.
I'm not condoning your allowing your dog to "bite" during play-fights, but some dogs are naturally "mouthy", and anyone who claims to be a dog owner/lover and can't see this is living in cloud cukoo-land. My dog is the softest natured dog in the world, and has never shown any signs of aggression towards anyone or anything, however she can get over-excited and become a little mouthy when playing, and on the few occasions it has developed into a nip she has been reprimanded.

Had the OH made an obvious knee-jerk reaction to the bite by yelling/striking out/kicking once, then fair enough, and the dog would have known he had gone too far and considered itself reprimanded. My issue is that he kicked the dog three times in an obvious temper which is definately over the top and therefore totally unacceptable, and I feel you should have confronted him there and then.
If I felt someone went over the top reprimanding my dog in front of me, I would be fuming and they would be fully aware of how I felt in no uncertain terms.
I join those who suggest keeping your dog in the car whenever the OH is around, and I hope this doesn't damage your relationship with the YO.
Click to expand...
Thank you, firstly for actually reading my posts properly (!) and secondly for your support.
 
Last edited:
YorksG said:
If that was my yard the situation would never have happened. You pay for livery, not dog exercising rights. It sounds as if your dog was on the yard without you being there, not acceptable in my world. It never fails to astonish me that people believe that when they pay livery they pay to take their dogs, their children, their friends, their barbeques etc etc. In my yard this would be resolved by you moving your horse, with a weeks notice!
Click to expand...
When I first looked into moving there one of the first questions asked was could I bring the dog. YO is fine with this. The dog is only there unsupervised if I am out on a hack, then he goes in my stable until I return. Same happens with YO's dogs so I know she is happy with this.
If the dog wasn't allowed on the yard then he wouldn't be there - simples ;)
 
china said:
shils i dont think that is what the op is worried about, the fact that this person has shown this aggression towards an animal what if he turns this aggression onto the the op's other animals, this would be my concern also.
I would have been inclined to give him a swift kick in the ribs. Ok the dog bit him but her should have realised he was playing rough with the dog and maybe went abit to far. absolutley no excuse to kick the dog!

eta- i dont play rough with my terrier nor would she bite anyone but if she gets excited when you greet her she may unintentionly nip you out of pure excitement.
Click to expand...

It's a perfectly normal reaction to lash out if you are bitten, how would you know that the first bite wasn't going to be followed up by something worse It is a nonsense to say that your other animals may be at risk. The person is within his rights to prosecute even with a 'play bite' so be grateful for small mercies.
 
It's a difficult one isn't it? I have an American Bulldog and he is seriously lovely. BUT when he play fights he will 'nip'. There is nothing quite like a nip from a 9stone dog, so I do not let him play fight. I don't even play tug of war with him because he is jowly and can sometimes mis-judge the rope and catch your hand.

My male friends love to come and prove they can handle my 'man's' dog and will rough house with him, they have been bitten accidentally, causing bruising and pain... I always warn them not to do it because he will bite, and believe me, the breed was bred to boar herd so they have one helluva set of jaws on them!

So I suppose in this incident, I would have said what the fella did was unacceptable. If one of my friend's kicked my dog, even ONCE after knowing that I had said it is unsuitable to play with him/you may get bitten and then it happened, they'd be out the door with a flea in their ear!

However, to protect your canine friend, I would say please don't allow anyone to play fight with him. It only takes 3 complaints or one serious complaint and it's bye bye doggy hello court case...

I am a responsible owner of a misunderstood breed who sadly here is utilised for the wrong reasons, so believe me, I am very careful about my boy's behaviour... :D glad you got this resolved OP xx
 
Family034.jpg


Family029.jpg


Family028.jpg


Hence no play fighting LOL :D
 
Why do people just assume that I let "anyone" play fight my dog. I am well aware of the consequences having worked in a police holding kennel. Whilst in public he is on a lead and under control, on a private yard or at home he is loose and if my friends, who all know the dog almost as well as I do, want to play fight with him then they are (were) more than welcome.

Someone asked why H kicked him, it was because he ran into a bruise on his leg and it hurt - so no he didn't bite him and hurt him - because he doesn't 'bite', as said before you can barely feel his teeth even on bare skin. If you don't agree with it then fine that's your opinion, however I like to play fight with my dog and will carry on doing so.

Now leaving this thread.
 
Sanolly said:
It has also been acceptable to H for nearly a year...
Click to expand...


Could it have *possibly* been that this 'bite' which didn't mark the skin, didn't use his teeth (as the thread has gone on you have added more and more information in an attempt to get the answer you want ;) ) actually bloody hurt this time?

I'm trying to understand where you are coming from but I'm really struggling TBH.

My son loves dogs. We always ask the owners permission for him to stroke them etc. and ask that they are safe. If he was playing with a dog on my livery yard that was running free and not muzzled and the owner had given permission for the play (that would be implied by not stopping it)
...and the dog bit him. It would definitely get a kick from me. Yes, even if he had played with it 200 times before.

I don't know why you are being all dramatic about him attacking your animals. You say he is only there at weekends [shrug] just don't take the dog up at weekends.
 
I am very sorry but I find it completely wrong that he kicked your dog in the ribs and if I were her would tell him to get the hell out. Who needs a person with a temper like that.

My rescue terrier actually lunged at a chap and nipped him whilst I was holding him on a lead at my yard. Fortunately, he is a well balanced, pleasant man with his own terriers and far from kicking him spoke to him gently and said to me he must have had a horrid life. I reprimanded the dog and ensured he was muzzled after that.

I would also be absolutely furious if anyone smacked my horse. He does not like people looking over his stable door and pulls faces and can nip. Simple, stay away from him.
 
I agree. I can't believe how many people are condoning a man who was obviously out of control with his temper. One knee-jerk kick I could perhaps understand, but to then lay into the dog with further kicks is rather worrying. I wouldn't let my kids around him, either.
 
Sounds to me like this was all more about H's temper than the dog's actual actions, especially if the kick was a response to the dog accidentally hitting H's bruised leg. In which case I would keep my dog at home because H seems quite unreliable.

On the play biting issue, while I mainly agree that it's not a good idea to encourage most dogs with this, there are exceptions. I will put my hand up and say that I play fight with Pookie. The game is always instigated by me (or OH), all his mouthing is exceptionally gentle and done through the duvet cover, if he accidentally touches bare flesh he stops immediately and the game ends the moment I say 'finished'. However, even under these terms I don't allow anyone other than the OH and myself to play with the dog this way as we are more aware of the behaviour we deem acceptable and can decide the parametres of the game.
 
Someone asked why H kicked him, it was because he ran into a bruise on his leg and it hurt
Click to expand...

I thought it was because the dog bit him - as per your original post.

If you train your dog to 'play' bite - you live with the consequences. No point doing a flounce just because people are pointing out to you the failures in your management.
 
Back to the original point. Booboos, you always sound very sensible, so if possible I would sleep on this one and give a chance for reason to take over from emotion!! Initial reactions are not always the best most considered?

Then talk to the wife - definitely start off by Being concilliatory and take it from there.

I think sometimes you have to recognize that some dogs need protecting from themselves, because their reaction is to bite if under extreme stress. As an good owner your job is to protect him from such situations.

Good luck, I hope it sorts itself out.
 
I'm with the majority of the posters on this thread.

Allowing your dog to 'bite/mouth' whatever you would like to call it is irresponsible when it affects people outside of your own immediate family.

One day he may play fight with someone and hurt them. Also if at any time there are other dogs present the fighting can turn nasty and bites become harder.

We have a neighbour who is always allowing her dog (a Sharpai) on the street where we have many young children playing. She is addemant that it is such a sweety and woouldn't hurt anyone. Do we believe her NO it's curled its top lip at several of us. A dog is a pack animal - it has a leader and anyone outside of the pack can be considered as a threat.

Many years ago I had the dearest Cocker Spaniel - a really kind, gentle and happy dog. One day I was playing with him and my young nephew joined in - my dog immediately growled at him. Dog had the hiding of its life - from me - both me and the dog were howling as I had never been so hard on him. I hated myself for the way I treated him but my nephew was not allowed to be 'spoken too' like that. From then on my dog would quietly absent himself when my nephew was around.

Apologise profusely to H - he may have been bitten harder than he expected or at least he may have felt threatened. Why do you need to take your dog up to someoone elses property anyway? Walk him at another time and leave him at home when you ride. I personally will not allow anyone elses dog on my place.
 
canteron said:
Back to the original point. Booboos, you always sound very sensible, so if possible I would sleep on this one and give a chance for reason to take over from emotion!! Initial reactions are not always the best most considered?

Then talk to the wife - definitely start off by Being concilliatory and take it from there.

I think sometimes you have to recognize that some dogs need protecting from themselves, because their reaction is to bite if under extreme stress. As an good owner your job is to protect him from such situations.

Good luck, I hope it sorts itself out.
Click to expand...

Good advice!

OP, only you are really in a position to make a call on whether you think your animals are safe or not, based on your observations of this person's behaviour over time. It's an unfortunate and awkward situation and I would certainly be leaving the dog at home for the next couple of weekends. But, if he's not given any indication before that he's going to harm any of the horses, I'd be inclined to chalk it up as a learning experience and keep the horse at the yard, and the dog on a lead!
 
kicking that amount of times is a definite over reaction IMO. Even if it had really hurt, wouldn't be have reprimanded by voice first, then if necessary a kick? not repeated kicks. I would've been furious. given that he knows how your dog plays and has been told/warned before and welcomed rough play from your dog before, it is bang out of order to lash out because your dog UNINTENTIONALLY caught a bruise on this man.

I play fight with my own dog maybe once a week or so because she loves the attention and rough play - she never 'bites' during our play (mouths yes, but never causes pain/fear with this) and the game ends as soon as I tell her to stop... and this sort of rough play is only ever instigated by me, she will never offer to give rough play.
 
Evelyn said:
Many years ago I had the dearest Cocker Spaniel - a really kind, gentle and happy dog. One day I was playing with him and my young nephew joined in - my dog immediately growled at him. Dog had the hiding of its life - from me - both me and the dog were howling as I had never been so hard on him. I hated myself for the way I treated him but my nephew was not allowed to be 'spoken too' like that. From then on my dog would quietly absent himself when my nephew was around.
Click to expand...

:eek:

Yes, because he then associated your nephew with pain and a hiding! I'm sorry but there is correcting behaviour and then there is going completely overboard! Why would you give your dog a 'hiding so he howled'. Unbelieveable!
 
Sanolly said:
I am at a fantastic yard owned by a couple. The bloke is not very horsey and isn't up very often, his OH is the one I see on a day to day basis and we get on really really well. Because I don't see *H (initial changed) very often he and I don't have much of a 'relationship', he can be quite moody at times.

Today we were all at the yard having just got back from next door where *D(again initial changed) had a jumping lesson on her horse. H was playing with their 2 dogs and my dog. I play rough with my dog which he has seen on nearly every occasion he has been up, H was playing with my dog and winding him up an my dog thought he was playing like I do so jumped up and 'bit' him (not a proper bite, just a play bite). At this point H lost it and booted him several times in the ribs. At this point I put my dog in the car and left texting D to say I would be back later to sort out my stables and poo pick the field. D texted me back to say that that was OK and she would ring me later, she also said "I don't know what the F that was all about".

I checked my dog when I got home and he is quite sore on the side where H kicked him, I don't think anything is broken, just bruised, but if he doesn't seem any better in the morning I will run him up to the vet. The thing is that, whilst H is not normally like this, I now no longer trust him round my animals.

What do I do now? Obviously if my dog does need the vet H will be getting the bill, but do I start making arrangements to leave the yard? I have been there nearly a year now and I would never have thought that H would be like this, there has been no sign of it at all. Problem is that if this happens again I would never forgive myself if one of my animals got hurt. As I said before H is not up the yard very often, usually at weekends and I am almost always there as well.


Just really upset and need advice please? :(
Click to expand...


Can't be bothered to read the first few replies because they were annoying me!

You can tell when a dog is playing or when a dog is being vicious, if said person decided to go down that route and play rough with your dog then tough luck, I get bitten by my dogs when playing rough, its all part of the rough and tumble, he got hurt and lost his rag and took it out on the poor dog.

What if your horse stands on his foot, will it get a punch in the face, sounds like he has a short temper!

It isn't your fault for playing rough with your dog, you obviously love your dog and don't treat it as a piece of plastic.

I Don't know what to suggest re the yard? Text the wife and tell her how upset you are?

Poor you and poor doggie :-(

XX

ps it never fails to amaze me how judgemental ppl are on these forums, wow it's your fault for doing this or that, never anything constructive.
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
Can't be bothered to read the first few replies because they were annoying me!

Not as much as your reply has annoyed me:D

You can tell when a dog is playing or when a dog is being vicious, if said person decided to go down that route and play rough with your dog then tough luck, I get bitten by my dogs when playing rough, its all part of the rough and tumble, he got hurt and lost his rag and took it out on the poor dog.
Rough and tumble might be acceptable to you - it is not to the majority of responsible owners. If you get bitten by your dogs then you really need help in training then, playing or not -what you are teaching them is it is OKAY to 'play' bite humans. The OP is lucky she is not being sued.

What if your horse stands on his foot, will it get a punch in the face, sounds like he has a short temper!
Maybe he does have a short temper but its his yard, his rules, if OP doesn't want her animals kicked then she shouldn't teach them that play fighting is okay - whoever instigates it.

It isn't your fault for playing rough with your dog, you obviously love your dog and don't treat it as a piece of plastic.
Yes it is, teaching him behavour that is unacceptable to most people can only end in disaster - as this one has.

I Don't know what to suggest re the yard? Text the wife and tell her how upset you are?
I think the wife might be more concerned about her bitten husband

Poor you and poor doggie :-(

XX

ps it never fails to amaze me how judgemental ppl are on these forums, wow it's your fault for doing this or that, never anything constructive.
Click to expand...
I will offer some constructive advice as you seem to have missed the many pages offered already. Biting is not acceptable whatever the reasoning behind it. If you dog cannot be trusted in play or otherwise then keep them at home.
 
A very interesting thread! My dog is a trained dog, to act as a guard dog.....so if someone laid into her kicking.....they would come off very badly indeed...as the more they kick, the more she will react! Not to us at home of course, as the training is part of living with the family, and each family member knows to respect her with regards to this.

A fabulous family dog all round, and we are the only ones in our street, not to have been burgled. God forbid they get over the threshold.....

And before anyone posts otherwise, I do not have to post my credentials, or justify in anyway, the reason my dog is trained as such.

It's a hard one to think about, but if the person in question knows what the dog is like, and has previously played with it, then surely they should have known the consequences!
 
Big-Brother said:
I will offer some constructive advice as you seem to have missed the many pages offered already. Biting is not acceptable whatever the reasoning behind it. If you dog cannot be trusted in play or otherwise then keep them at home.
Click to expand...


I think it is you who miss the point, this dog is a nice dog, who does its own thing, if someone winds it up, head shaking, fighting, getting it excited for a long time, it will get over excited and get "mouthy" most dogs will do this if you wind them right up! He chose to roll around with it and wind it up and up until it got overexcited, it caught him accidently and he reacted, tough imo!

If you ran around the field with your horse chasing it and running away, chasing it and running away after 10 mins it would get excited and start bucking, if you get kicked you WOULD not reprimand the horse, as it was your fault, END OF!
 
DragonSlayer said:
A very interesting thread! My dog is a trained dog, to act as a guard dog.....so if someone laid into her kicking.....they would come off very badly indeed...as the more they kick, the more she will react! Not to us at home of course, as the training is part of living with the family, and each family member knows to respect her with regards to this.

A fabulous family dog all round, and we are the only ones in our street, not to have been burgled. God forbid they get over the threshold.....

And before anyone posts otherwise, I do not have to post my credentials, or justify in anyway, the reason my dog is trained as such.

It's a hard one to think about, but if the person in question knows what the dog is like, and has previously played with it, then surely they should have known the consequences!
Click to expand...


Someone who knows all about dogs, finally someone speaking sense!
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
I think it is you who miss the point, this dog is a nice dog, who does its own thing, if someone winds it up, head shaking, fighting, getting it excited for a long time, it will get over excited and get "mouthy" most dogs will do this if you wind them right up! He chose to roll around with it and wind it up and up until it got overexcited, it caught him accidently and he reacted, tough imo!
Click to expand...

But the dog bit him - that is not being mouthy.
 
This may not be a popular post but I have to say that if a dog bit me I would immediately go to the Police. I would want the dog PTS. sorry if that offends anyone but having been attacked by a dog as a child i am terrified of them. THey must NEVER be allowed to bite people,or horses for that matter. I dont care how much the owner is attached to the dog,its only an animal and if it bites its out of control.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top