Rearing 5 year old ex race horse :/

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Keeky

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SO MANY different views on it!
Yesterday this horse was incredible! Today, he was HORRIBLE I actually just got off after about 6 times of ignoring what I asked him to do. There was another horse in the indoor school with us which didn't help and a lot of wind!
How do I stop him rearing?
I think he's doing it to be stubborn because yesterday he understood all the transitions I was getting him to do etc.
But today he was being plain stubborn and he will NOT get away with it again!
How do I stop him rearing without irritatingly kicking and clicking which is what usually makes it worse in most cases!?
A teacher on the yard is telling me to send him back but what do you expect in an ex race horse? Especially at the age of 5. He has the SWEETEST personality too!
Also, he's in a de gogue, good idea to leave this off for a while? Or will it not make a difference?
 
How long has he been out of training and in a new way of working, he could be struggling to adapt to using himself in a different way, if he worked well yesterday he may have been sore today, not being stubborn just finding it tough. Most exracers need to build up very steadily allowing their bodies and brains time to adjust, lots of hacking and working long and low to start to stretch and build up a topline.
I would not want to work in a degogue every day, he will find it too much and possibly continue to try and get away from it, hence the rearing, maybe some lunging in it to get him going forward.
 
be positive said:
How long has he been out of training and in a new way of working, he could be struggling to adapt to using himself in a different way, if he worked well yesterday he may have been sore today, not being stubborn just finding it tough. Most exracers need to build up very steadily allowing their bodies and brains time to adjust, lots of hacking and working long and low to start to stretch and build up a topline.
I would not want to work in a degogue every day, he will find it too much and possibly continue to try and get away from it, hence the rearing, maybe some lunging in it to get him going forward.
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Yeah you're very right! I can't expect him to be good everyday! It's the fact i think I got him round ONE 20m circle and still then he had a few rears! I've only used the de gogue once and that was yesterday and so used it today but you're right, think it's too much for him so maybe even just once a week putting it on?
It's amazing for topline! Then again he reared the second time I rode him after buying him! Although the saddle was a bad fit, we were also in the wind when that hurricane came, I think it's building his confidence and definately what you've said! It's getting to understand them isn't it?:)
 
mmmm rearing in tbs usually because ur holding the front in too much ie degogue. try him without any gadgets and just a plain snaffle and plenty of rein- ex racers really dont like being held in too much contact until theyre less hollow. good luck.x
 
If he has only just come out of training then you have just turned everything he knows on its head - racing - he is only being taught to go fast in one pace, now you are asking him to shorten carry you in a different position, do different things and tbh you will get nowhere if you dont have a calm, steady and methodical approach.

TB's are as sensative as they come, they are quick to learn and that is both the wrong thing to do and the right thing to do.

Please dont go through a whole host of gadgets you will just frazzle his brain, and if you dont have the time and skill to work with this noble, quick thinking animal, then for his sake send him back.
 
Gingerwitch said:
If he has only just come out of training then you have just turned everything he knows on its head - racing - he is only being taught to go fast in one pace, now you are asking him to shorten carry you in a different position, do different things and tbh you will get nowhere if you dont have a calm, steady and methodical approach.

TB's are as sensative as they come, they are quick to learn and that is both the wrong thing to do and the right thing to do.

Please dont go through a whole host of gadgets you will just frazzle his brain, and if you dont have the time and skill to work with this noble, quick thinking animal, then for his sake send him back.
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ERRRR Was actually recommended them in the shop for the fact they don't strap their heads down unlike draw reins. They relax their head into a long and low position working on a pully system of rope. & Excuse me I've taken a year out of college just for him so I do have the time. & He had his 6 months off and came back into work with previous trainers who didn't have time for him so yeah great idea I'll send him back (Y)
 
Keeky said:
ERRRR Was actually recommended them in the shop for the fact they don't strap their heads down unlike draw reins. They relax their head into a long and low position working on a pully system of rope. & Excuse me I've taken a year out of college just for him so I do have the time. & He had his 6 months off and came back into work with previous trainers who didn't have time for him so yeah great idea I'll send him back (Y)
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Even though he has had 6 months off it will mean he has no muscle tone and certainly not enough to work hard schooling AND in a gadget. Take the damn thing off, and do a fittening programme that SLOWLY brings him fit and gets his muscles in the right place. Have you done his teeth, checked his back etc etc before doing all of this.

And, sorry if this is harsh, if you can't take your time then yes send him back.
 
The thing is with either the De Gogue or the Chambon is that although they are good training aids in the right hands and the right situation, they are all to often misused and will often give a horse a reason to fight because they do not understand what is alien to them

Take off all gadgets, get him working in a relaxed manner and long and low. With the ex racehorse you are not only training him to use himself correctly but altering his mental attitude too.

If he has a rearing fit then do nothing, if he goes up just sit on him (going forward when he does go up) do not kick him to go forward, try to turn him or hit him. Just sit him out . He will get tired way before you do and when he wants to go forward make him wait for a few moments and then ask him to go when you want and not when he wants and continue as if nothing has happened. He will soon realise that it is all wasted energy.

Please, for your sake and the horse's do not use any gadgets for several months and then only when he is able to use his back and engage his back end correctly

Shops will recommend all sorts of things 0 they are in the market for selling!
 
Foxhunter49 said:
The thing is with either the De Gogue or the Chambon is that although they are good training aids in the right hands and the right situation, they are all to often misused and will often give a horse a reason to fight because they do not understand what is alien to them

Take off all gadgets, get him working in a relaxed manner and long and low. With the ex racehorse you are not only training him to use himself correctly but altering his mental attitude too.

If he has a rearing fit then do nothing, if he goes up just sit on him (going forward when he does go up) do not kick him to go forward, try to turn him or hit him. Just sit him out . He will get tired way before you do and when he wants to go forward make him wait for a few moments and then ask him to go when you want and not when he wants and continue as if nothing has happened. He will soon realise that it is all wasted energy.

Please, for your sake and the horse's do not use any gadgets for several months and then only when he is able to use his back and engage his back end correctly

Shops will recommend all sorts of things 0 they are in the market for selling!
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Greattt advise :) Thank you!
Well she said to us that she was completely anti-gadget but me and a friend who has also ridden him originally went to change his bit because we felt like we had hold of nothing it was just the strangest feeling riding him until we put on this pully system gadget so she said it was the kindest type of gadget and explained it so clearly to us but you are right, I'll lay off the gadgets for a while! He's still young and there is absolutely no rush! Thank youu!:)
 
cluedo said:
Even though he has had 6 months off it will mean he has no muscle tone and certainly not enough to work hard schooling AND in a gadget. Take the damn thing off, and do a fittening programme that SLOWLY brings him fit and gets his muscles in the right place. Have you done his teeth, checked his back etc etc before doing all of this.

And, sorry if this is harsh, if you can't take your time then yes send him back.
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He's been back in work for about a ear btw:) The previous owners had just been hacking him though due to facilities and stuff but I've just bought him onto a livery yard!
I don't plan to put it back on until the baby is out of him, I can't imagine it would go down nicely if he continues to rear with that thing on..
He had them done in June and was planning it 6 months from then when previous owners had him done but seems like it's worth checking again!
 
been there, done that... haha. New yard, what can i say ten years of TB's... sounds like he needs a good long hack, and a bit of wearing out! All mine are fab for a few days then begin to feel too well with all the fuss love feed and new surroundings and this sweet little tb (that was secretly underfed and worn out!) suddenly decides he no longer wants to try any thing new (gadgeted or otherwise!) and stubborn kicks in. Unfortunately i have never met many horses who can be argued into submission, so go on a nice long hack and wind both of you down, also try the de gogue back on first time for a short hack, i have one always goes best in draw reins on a hack... if i use them in the school he thinks too much about it and tense normally ensues!! Dont worry about people telling you to have more patience, its only natural that you want to get started on transforming him into the best horse he can be, and im sure that you will... so yeah... cut a tiny bit of feed (dont want too many bones!!) and wear him out ... hope this helps,
Screw loose equine xx
 
olivia_deane said:
been there, done that... haha. New yard, what can i say ten years of TB's... sounds like he needs a good long hack, and a bit of wearing out! All mine are fab for a few days then begin to feel too well with all the fuss love feed and new surroundings and this sweet little tb (that was secretly underfed and worn out!) suddenly decides he no longer wants to try any thing new (gadgeted or otherwise!) and stubborn kicks in. Unfortunately i have never met many horses who can be argued into submission, so go on a nice long hack and wind both of you down, also try the de gogue back on first time for a short hack, i have one always goes best in draw reins on a hack... if i use them in the school he thinks too much about it and tense normally ensues!! Dont worry about people telling you to have more patience, its only natural that you want to get started on transforming him into the best horse he can be, and im sure that you will... so yeah... cut a tiny bit of feed (dont want too many bones!!) and wear him out ... hope this helps,
Screw loose equine xx
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As soon as I saw the "been there, done that" I thought THANK GOD! Hahahaha!
yeah definately think I will try and get him out today for a hack!
Didn't help that another horse was in the school also cantering past us and it was a little windy even in the indoor school!?
What so give him less feed?x
 
Sounds like you have a sensative little horse, that's going to need careful handling.

Get yourself some help from someone who has experience with ex-racehorses and go from there.

I'd also throw the de-gogue in the bin.
 
If he has been hacking and not rearing for a year, I think that says everything, don't try to ride him like a schooled horse, work with him and ask him to do a bit of work over a longer period of time, I don't know why you decided he needed gadgets, but to be honest, in racing we did occasionally have to re-educated horses which were sent to use and had only been raced, not trained, they were kept in standard loose ringed bit and irish martingale, and in the right hands did very well.

Go back to long reining if you want to make the mouth, gridwork and tiny loose jumping.
Remember that the racehorse training people use excellent riders, and spend a ninimum of three months with their horses, many take a year, you are asking him to use different muscle groups and do everything differently, he has got confused and as you are holding on to his head he has nowhere to go but up or back,......... I know what you are going to say.. but this is his reaction to his current situation.
 
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Get rid of the gadget, forget about purely schooling in the school and go out hacking. If hacking is all he has known for a while then take him out, work on his outline and schooling whilst out and about and maybe do ten mins in the school after you come back a couple of days a week just to let him understand that work can be done in a confined space as well.

The best way to work through rearing is to keep them going forwards. If you think they are going to stop and go up then kick them on to a trot or a canter. TB's are highly intelligent so do different things every day. Rather than going round and round in circles in the school how about chucking some trotting poles about, teach him to jump if he doesn't know how to already. With my nappy retired race horse I bung loads of stuff out, buckets, poles, flower pots, shetlands and when he gets bored of working we go play with them. He has got mounted games and round up the ponies down to a tee. It lets him unwind and have fun. We then do 5 more mins of work before calling it a day.

Unless you are really struggling or lose your confidence in him then I wouldn't give him up. It will be so rewarding when he turns into the horse you would like him to be.
 
EKW said:
Get rid of the gadget, forget about purely schooling in the school and go out hacking. If hacking is all he has known for a while then take him out, work on his outline and schooling whilst out and about and maybe do ten mins in the school after you come back a couple of days a week just to let him understand that work can be done in a confined space as well.
Unless you are really struggling or lose your confidence in him then I wouldn't give him up. It will be so rewarding when he turns into the horse you would like him to be.
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Good advice, do not proceed with schooling unless you have an instructor on the ground to help you, I mean someone with a breadth of experience not some one who has her AI riding schooled horses, you have plenty of time, so use it wisely.
 
I think you need to firstly stop worrying about the outline for the time being. Think about the rhythm of the gaits to start with and make sure he is working forward from the aids. Only then when he is happy to walk, trot, canter, start and stop without a fuss, should you then start introducing school movements such as circles, loops and serpentines to get him round the inside leg and more supple, then you can start address the outline but to be honest, once you have the basics established then this should be easy.
From what I can read of your post and the use of the de gouge, you are quite focused on where his head is, at the moment, this is the least of your worries, acceptance of the aids needs to be the first thought in your mind.
Many racehorses do not accept the legs aids when schooling to start with and they come behind the leg, which is what it sounds like yours is doing. If the hand is too busy trying to create an outline ( or in this case a de gouge) and the horse is not forward then the only way is up!
I would also do a lot of long reining and lunging to get him thinking forward. On the lunge just use normal, non elastic side reins to start with to get him to accept a contact. He will prob not understand at first but perserve.Have the side reins adjusted so there is a contact but no so tight that he feels restricted.
If he is fine out hacking, use this time to work on getting him to stretch rather than tackling it in the arena and causing a head on fight.
 
Keeky said:
As soon as I saw the "been there, done that" I thought THANK GOD! Hahahaha!
yeah definately think I will try and get him out today for a hack!
Didn't help that another horse was in the school also cantering past us and it was a little windy even in the indoor school!?
What so give him less feed?x
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yeah, try a little less or if hes on a mix i cut that for conditioning cubes/high fibre cubes. The very hot ones that still need to gain weight get their hard feed replaced by a cup of dried calf's milk or soya oil (the milk works better but cost about 20 a bag!!) but yes, it will be so worth it :D....
P.S. my intermediate event horse still throws the dolly out the pram occasionally when schooling ... he might always be a bit tricky! but hey gotta have something about them!!
 
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MrsD123 said:
Good advice, do not proceed with schooling unless you have an instructor on the ground to help you, I mean someone with a breadth of experience not some one who has her AI riding schooled horses, you have plenty of time, so use it wisely.
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You all need to calm it a bit, everytime I ride, a friend that just sold her retrained ex race horse helps me & everyone has sworn by the de gogue you can't really comment on that gadget yourselves until you actually know what it does tbh! Just like you can't comment on why my horse is behaving this way:/ Simply asked how to stop him. He was fine the today in them and the other time we used them which was the first time, yesterday was because some idiot was cantering round and round past my wound up 5 year old!
 
EKW said:
Get rid of the gadget, forget about purely schooling in the school and go out hacking. If hacking is all he has known for a while then take him out, work on his outline and schooling whilst out and about and maybe do ten mins in the school after you come back a couple of days a week just to let him understand that work can be done in a confined space as well.

The best way to work through rearing is to keep them going forwards. If you think they are going to stop and go up then kick them on to a trot or a canter. TB's are highly intelligent so do different things every day. Rather than going round and round in circles in the school how about chucking some trotting poles about, teach him to jump if he doesn't know how to already. With my nappy retired race horse I bung loads of stuff out, buckets, poles, flower pots, shetlands and when he gets bored of working we go play with them. He has got mounted games and round up the ponies down to a tee. It lets him unwind and have fun. We then do 5 more mins of work before calling it a day.

Unless you are really struggling or lose your confidence in him then I wouldn't give him up. It will be so rewarding when he turns into the horse you would like him to be.
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Hahaha I love this comment!! "Shetlands"
Yeah will definately try things like that! I can't wait to see him go over some trotting poles, will be the funniest thing he'll probably leap over all three of them hahaha!
Thanks for this comment will definately try it all out :)
He was great today so just see what tomorrow brings, maybe take him on a nice long relaxing hack!?
The thing with retraining them is that it's hot and cold!
The thing I worked on today was pushing him forward and he only tried it once but I made him get on with it and he was perfect!
Is yours now retarained etc?
Ofcourse I won't give up, there would have been no point of EVER thinking about getting an ex race horse in the first place!
Trick is to be much softer than in your hands than on a regular school horse or anything!
x
 
olivia_deane said:
yeah, try a little less or if hes on a mix i cut that for conditioning cubes/high fibre cubes. The very hot ones that still need to gain weight get their hard feed replaced by a cup of dried calf's milk or soya oil (the milk works better but cost about 20 a bag!!) but yes, it will be so worth it :D....
P.S. my intermediate event horse still throws the dolly out the pram occasionally when schooling ... he might always be a bit tricky! but hey gotta have something about them!!
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Yeahhh when you learn to trust them, you get over it all and it becomes a bundle of fun hahaha! Like his little hops have become quite fun!;)
He's literally just on Alfa A and high fibre nuts, he takes water out of his water drinker if he feels the need to soak it some days hahahah! Funny animals they are ;)x
 
Keeky said:
You all need to calm it a bit, everytime I ride, a friend that just sold her retrained ex race horse helps me & everyone has sworn by the de gogue you can't really comment on that gadget yourselves until you actually know what it does tbh! Just like you can't comment on why my horse is behaving this way:/ Simply asked how to stop him. He was fine the today in them and the other time we used them which was the first time, yesterday was because some idiot was cantering round and round past my wound up 5 year old!
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You simply asked how to stop him rearing, eh? Why, then, do you throw your toys out of the pram when you get sound advice?

Most people know why your horse is behaving the way he is, and most are too polite to tell you where you are going wrong. It's nothing to do with 'some idiot', it's because you are asking too much of a young horse which was bred to race and not to be held in and schooled before he is ready in his mind and body.

Send the horse back and sell your gadgets, and ask yourself why you would want a tb.
 
What a Very strange response. I have successfully Really trained our ex racer from the track to gaining over 70% in all his dressage tests and winning his first ode. He is well schooled and well mannered and anyone's ride. If You ask for advice then have the good grace To be polite! If you don't want it. Crack on with what you doing and stop moaning about his behaviour.
Sort out your own self made issues! Grrrrrr. Some people!
 
I heard somewhere to have a person on the ground waiting for the horse to rear, before touching the belly with a damp towel? Dont know if this would work because he is only five but its only a suggestion? :)
 
gees, wish everyone wouldn't jump on the "she's not capable" band wagon!! There is a difference between sounds advice, encouragement and "OH MY GOD, A DE GOGUE SHE'S CRUEL, SHE'S RUSHING THINGS, OH MY GOD SAVE THAT HORSE"... cause guys, she just wanted some ideas!!.. she's obviously pretty prepared for what to expect, and if shes not shes on here aksing, trying to do her best, both horse and rider will learn with time, and the horse isn't going to break in the interim...

rant over... phew... just actually wanted to post a funny video of my tb when i first bought him that you made me thik of when you said jump all trotting poles at once :P... you only need watch the first ten secs :P... PS ignore riding!! haha i learnt with him (and nope... he didnt break)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGcTC4ZrDZM
 
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