Rearing horse

[Micropony]

There are levels of egg and spoon racing ? Like Novice to Advanced ? Well you learn something new every day …..

I have never particularly enjoyed competing, but this is making me think I perhaps ought to reconsider!
(Sorry OP, I have nothing to add to the very sensible advice you've already been given about proper vet investigations and enlisting professional help).

 

[Bonnie Allie]

Apologies - late to the party but like OP, we took on a known rearer. everyone told us we were crazy. He either came to us or went into a can of dog food.

Went from a turd of a horse to a Grand Prix SJer. His rearing was a learned behaviour that had originally stemmed from pain and being very confused and frightened.

Interestingly he always gave a clue he was getting nervous or about to rear. His go to was to go out the left shoulder, then rear. So we just used to get ahead of that and built in a circuit breaker when that happened which kept him calm and prevented him going up.

We had to have a proactive management set of tools when we took him to comps, so that he didn’t rear.

He lived to 28, was still jumping at 25 and those that told us to return him/pts suddenly started offering us money to buy him once he started winning. D***heads.

Importantly he never gave away the rearing - we just prevented it happening. So you are not going to solve it, but you can manage it.

 

[Old Side-Saddle Lady]

Not all horses with problems are in pain. Horses are feral animals and have instinctive responses. If this instinctive response to turn away from perceived danger and is rewarded by getting what they wat (ie fleeing the danger) there is every chance this behaviour will be repeated.
That is why it is so important that young horses are brought on by competent understanding sympathetic riders. A horse only has to be rewarded for rearing once (by rider dismoumting or turning home) and it will repeat the behaviour. After 3 times the behaviour is ingrained.
Good luck Freck. If you think she is going to rear slip your feet out of the stirrups (they wont help you stay on) so you can jump clear if necessary.

Somewhere along the line it may be that the horse has discovered than if she rears the weight on her back goes away. Ooh, goodie, says horse toherself

On the chance that the seller is genuinely interested in the horse’s welfare and wants it to go to a suitable home. There’s not a legal case to return the horse, but I think it would be best to offer the seller the opportunity to take it. At least they already know and can handle the horse, and I’m assuming if they’ve only had it gone for a week they would be set up to take it back.
I totally agree the seller is not legally or even morally obliged to take the horse back, but on the chance that they would it would be better than selling on to a stranger who doesn’t know the horse. Better for the horse too if it can go back to an environment it knows.

It's possible that the former owners had to sell this one to be able to afford another horse. They may not be sufficiently well-off to support two horses.

 

[Sail_away]

Somewhere along the line it may be that the horse has discovered than if she rears the weight on her back goes away. Ooh, goodie, says horse toherself

It's possible that the former owners had to sell this one to be able to afford another horse. They may not be sufficiently well-off to support two horses.

Yeah I agree, they might not want it back and there’s no reason for them to. I’d still ask them because it would be better for the horse to go back to a familiar environment with people who can manage her properly. No guarantee but it would be worth a try.

 

[Old Side-Saddle Lady]

OP I feel like you've had a bit of a tough time on this thread, but please know that it'll be coming from a good place. No matter how blunt the message there's an absolute wealth of experience on these forums and ultimately no one wants to see you get hurt.

FWIW I think it's a fair question to ask why you chose to buy a known rearer when one ride in your confidence is already dented from it rearing, but really it's all a bit of a moot point as you've bought the mare and no amount of dwelling is going to change that.

In your shoes I'd firstly want to be 100% certain the mare wasn't in pain, before I pushed the rearing issue any further. Can you speak to the previous owner and ask what tests they did to ascertain the mare isn't rearing in pain? I would ideally want the supporting vet reports to pass on to my own vet to review, followed by getting my own vet to check them over and possibly x-ray and bone scan depending on what tests had already been done. Ultimately for my own piece of mind I'd want to know with certainty that there are no physical reasons for the behaviour before putting time and money into training to fix the issue.

Once you know it truly is just a learned behaviour, I would enlist the help of a trainer that can help get you through this. I mean this with no disrespect, but the fact that she scared you on the first ride with her rearing means you'll be on a hiding to nothing trying to crack this alone, especially when the behaviour is long ingrained so it really is worth enlisting help early doors to prevent the behaviour escalating further and you either getting hurt or losing your confidence completely...start as you mean to go on and all that jazz.

I really hope you manage to get this sorted, for both you and your mare's sake. Horses are meant to be fun afterall!

It occurs to me the horse may have had a very bad accident and injured her back. Pain to her back as a result of that may have healed but she remembers that

 

[Old Side-Saddle Lady]

This could be psychological. The horse may have had a serious accident in the which gave a lot of back pain but is now cured. She may remember that pain and be afraid that it will come back if she is ridden for too long (her idea of "too long"). Compared with humans horses have very simple minds. I know that sounds a bit mumbo-jumbo but while horses are intelligent by animal standards they do sometimes put 2+2 together and make the answer 1 and 1/2

 

[hellfire]

I have never particularly enjoyed competing, but this is making me think I perhaps ought to reconsider!
(Sorry OP, I have nothing to add to the very sensible advice you've already been given about proper vet investigations and enlisting professional help).

I used to love a egg and spoon race on my pony as a kid. I’ve actually done it with adult riders to teach them steady hands. Hard boiled eggs though! Honestly it’s always ended in laughter. Give it a try you’ll be amazed.?

 

[eggs]

If the horse NEVER rears when ridden in the school in all paces it would suggest that this is a learned behaviour which may or may not have initially had pain as a trigger.

I would get a full vet work up to rule out any pain issue and if all clear on that send the horse to some-one to retrain him. I don't think OP that you have the skill set to retrain this horse.

 

[Mule]

View attachment 50537

This is my leg after a horse sent in for reschooling with undisclosed behavioural problems reared over backwards on me. I am a professional rider and have successfully rehabbed many rearers. No one has been unkind to you, quite the opposite. Get. Some. Help.

It's insane that people will hide behavioural problems. That could get someone killed

 

[FestiveFuzz]

It occurs to me the horse may have had a very bad accident and injured her back. Pain to her back as a result of that may have healed but she remembers that

Who knows? It could honestly be a multitude of things. The only way the OP will know for sure is by getting the horse a thorough work-up by a vet, anything else would be just guess work.

 

[Winters100]

It's insane that people will hide behavioural problems. That could get someone killed

Totally agree. The best thing ever as a seller is when the buyer calls you a month or two after purchase, not to complain that they cannot manage the horse, or worse that there has been an injury, but to ask why you exaggerated any little problems as they find them to be not nearly as difficult as described.

 

[LaurenBay]

It's insane that people will hide behavioural problems. That could get someone killed

I once went to try a Horse for share, she failed to mention he is a bolter (not tanking, proper bolt) I was lucky I got away with a scarred leg.

 

[sunnyone]

I wonder if you should alter your style of hacking? If the mare is asked to do lots of transitions, half halts, turns on the forehand, occasional rein backs, mini jumps etc her brain may be so actively engaged that she simply forgets about rearing. I'd also deliberately keep the hacks short for a while so that you stand more chance of a successful incident free ride and she begins to settle.

 

[stormox]

Have you posted on a dodgy dealer site on FB? About you are trying to return the horse? I have seen the videos. Well sat! But having seen the rearing I am not sure you will be able to try the spinnin,g draw reins and kicking on as I suggested. She goes up too high too quickly. Please disregard my idea - it worked for me but feel it may not for you....

 

[ycbm]

Have you posted on a dodgy dealer site on FB? About you are trying to return the horse? I have seen the videos. Well sat! But having seen the rearing I am not sure you will be able to try the spinnin,g draw reins and kicking on as I suggested. She goes up too high too quickly. Please disregard my idea - it worked for me but feel it may not for you....

I hope this isn't true. Posting on Facebook complaining that a horse you bought as a declared rearer rears?


.

 

[mini_b]

I hope this isn't true. Posting on Facebook complaining that a horse you bought as a declared rearer rears?


.

I’d be very upset if I’d been tarred as a dodgy dealer if I had given a full disclosure of the horses issues and the buyer went ahead... really hope this isn’t OP :/

 

[Ish2020]

Have you posted on a dodgy dealer site on FB? About you are trying to return the horse? I have seen the videos. Well sat! But having seen the rearing I am not sure you will be able to try the spinnin,g draw reins and kicking on as I suggested. She goes up too high too quickly. Please disregard my idea - it worked for me but feel it may not for you....

It very unfair ruin someone’s name considering she have bought with knowing horse has rearing problem. I don’t want to sound like a b#### but the op is clearly blaming the old owners instead of taking responsibility that she bought a horse with known issues.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Yep......

Got the same advice as on here. Left out the part where the horse reared on viewing.

And left out on here the advert states not a novice ride (she has said she is a novice) and the advert states horse naps.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/673069126109438/permalink/3045023175580676/

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Yep......

Got the same advice as on here. Left out the part where the horse reared on viewing.

And left out on here the advert states not a novice ride (she has said she is a novice) and the advert states horse naps.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/673069126109438/permalink/3045023175580676/

Can you screenshot as not everyone is on there and it's a closed group, if you are allowed to?

 

[Dyllymoo]

Initial post and advert of horse.

 

[ycbm]

Initial post and advert of horse.

View attachment 50702

View attachment 50703

There is nothing to suggest that is the horse or the person who started this thread is there? That's a pony and the OP routinely refers to a horse.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Oops! And this is definitely the OP?

 

[stormox]

No. Thats why I asked. But its Freck on here, the mares called Freckles. Both FB and this thread say its a mare and age 14... and she naps and rears... advert says 14.3hh which is a horse...

 

[Dyllymoo]

No. Thats why I asked. But its Freck on here, the mares called Freckles. Both FB and this thread say its a mare and age 14... and she naps and rears... advert says 14.3hh which is a horse...

This. And a few other details in the comments but im not trawling through them to screenshot.

 

[ycbm]

If that is you OP then shame on you!

.

 

[kingslane]

It is the same horse and op

 

[Red-1]

OP, having now seen 2 videos of you riding the horse, I urge you not to get on again.

On the FB page people are admiring your seat, and yes, you did stay in the saddle, but if a nappy horse spins right, it is imperative you turn it back to the left. You let the horse make a full circle then follow his pal. If a horse naps at a junction, no way should you simply turn tail and ride home.

Not that I am saying that you did the wrong thing at all in either situation, you were out of your depth and kept yourself safe. What I am saying is that, if you continue to 'try' to ride this horse, riding as you did will make the behaviour get bigger and bigger, until getting hurt is inevitable.

It will also make the horse double difficult to re-train.

I was once asked to be an expert witness in a court case against a seller. The horse was supposed to be a novice ride, and when trialled, he was great. Once home, the new, first time, owner set off for a ride alone. The ride started over a river, on a concrete slab with no sides. The horse was unsure, napped, was taken home. To be fair, we had to ride the Police horses over the same bridge, and have had fun and games with some of the youngsters, even with a lead, and they would still go on to be solid performers.

Next day, the owner plucked up courage again, but again could not get the horse over the river, so decided to set off the other way instead. She was a bit unsure, because of the issue at the river, and as soon as he was out of sight of the stables he napped again and, after bit of dithering, reared - the owner took him home.

After that the horse would not go out hacking. I went to have a look, a friend rode the horse. It was a naughty little sod! Reared, scraped the rider down a fence, reversed them right inside a bush. The horse was met with some whippy-do, because the rider was experienced and could see the horse was being a naughty sod. TBH, even if the horse was in some discomfort, rearing, scraping the rider against a fence ad reversing through a 20ft bush was not appropriate.

The rider was amazed when I said that yes, I would be an expert witness, but she may not like what I had to say. It is perfectly possible that she had taught it to nap and rear, single handedly. It could also be that the horse had reared/napped before, but I could not, hand on heart, say that it was certain. There were a few independent character witnesses for the horse (it was relatively local) saying that it had previously been well behaved.

She was shocked, but to be fair engaged a rider and trainer and the horse was soon (within a couple of weeks) on the straight and narrow. The horse went on to be her dream horse, went to shows, hacked alone etc. But, she had taken on board what was said, did checks, and paid many £££s for a good rider and trainer.

The way you are riding Freckles, it is only going one way. I also don't think you have a claim, as you have stated on here that she told you about the rearing, the advert says not for a novice and naps, you have even said that the horse reared 3 times when you tried him, and you coped.

This horse is different to the one that I spoke about as Freckles has been a rearer previously, all disclosed. It is not a recent habit that a good rider and trainer could quickly eliminate. Your riding is drawing much admiration, and I take my hat off to you, you did look secure, but please don't ride this horse again as the behaviour, IMO, will magnify.

 

[Dwyran_gold]

Honestly there are many problems I’ve dealt with with a horse, bolting, bucking, tanking off, refusing, napping like we all have experienced but when my young colt used to rear in hand (before he was gelded) it wasn’t something I would have liked to deal with in saddle and I’m really sorry and really feel for you but I agree with most people on here I just wouldn’t have got the horse in the first place, unless you know what to do to correct it and your confident riding through it.... I know I wouldn’t be xxx

 

[kingslane]

Im glad you said that! I was slightly confused why people were praising the riding when it was abundantly obvious it was ineffective at best...yes she stayed on but its not that difficult to sit to a rear...I actually think the horse is feeling very well/fresh and needs a firm hand and more time to settle etc...8 days is not very long and the fact it reared while she was viewing/riding it clearly didnt put her off which in itself is a bit of a worry!

 

[scats]

Just headed over to Fb for a look and from what I can see now, someone has made the Fb group aware of this thread.