Recall Issues. Advice please?

[Tinker_Belle]

I need some advice on recall please . Needless to say, it is the Red Setter I'm having problems with .

I take him out for long walks (at least an hour's run off the lead in an open but safe space) and he comes to call absolutely fine when there are no other dogs around. He's also fine to come back or stay when people are around but when other dogs appear, he loses all attention and concntration and I have to go an retrieve him .

For this reason I take him out of an evening when the area is quiet but obviously, there is the risk that there may be one or two dogs that appear. When they do, mine has to say hello but this is not practical and not something I want to encourage.

I've tried the firm voice and using treats but the minute he sees another dog, it's like I'm not there .
He knows it's wrong because when I do get him back, he slinks back with his tail between his legs.

He is too energetic to keep on the lead, he needs a run every day or else he tends to get hyperactive or troublesome.

So, advice please? What should I do with him to get his attention and keep it when other dogs are around?
He is fine on the lead and in other ways, this is his only issue really and I would like to get it sorted.

He is 14 months old.

 

[soloabe]

I would suggest you use a 50ft long line so that when he doesn't come back you can give him a little pop.

Having trailing so he can still run around.

Check out some of blackcobs posts she has had a couple of video's on here of her working with a long line.

 

[Spudlet]

It's a tricky one and no doubt...

Have you been to group training classes? This might help to teach him that other dogs are not always for playing with.

Also, stop him from greeting dogs when he is on the lead - keep walking briskly and make him go with you. When he gets to the stage of walking by without pulling at them, then he can progress to controlled calm greetings on the lead.

If he is slinking back, it is more likely he has read your cross body language than that he knows he has done wrong - I am as guilty of it as anyone, but you must praise him when he comes back no matter what. Praise him for a good few minutes, then calmly put the lead on and walk away.

And get into training to spot them before he does...

 

[blackcob]

Check out some of blackcobs posts she has had a couple of video's on here of her working with a long line.

I omit the ones where dog and human are grappling on opposite ends of the line to get to a particularly interesting dog.

This recent thread has some good ideas and descriptions of how to utilise a long line.

 

[hobytaz]

Remember lots of exercise only makes him fitter and in need of more - try 'entertaining' him in other ways with games or agility classes. Gundog classes may channel his natural instincts - this does not mean you have to take him on a shoot or agree with shooting. Think about exercising his brain rather than his body.

You have got to become or have something that is more attractive than another dog - easy to say and very hard to do i know from experience. The something can be a ball, other toy or titbit - this could be part of his feed. It may sound harsh but you could try letting him get very hungry and then offering part of his feed - use a line and as he goes towards the other dog check him and let him see the food. Gradually lenghten the line.

What ever you try - be consistent for a period of time, insistant and persistant.

you will win



good luck

 

[Tinker_Belle]

It's a tricky one and no doubt...

Have you been to group training classes? This might help to teach him that other dogs are not always for playing with.

Also, stop him from greeting dogs when he is on the lead - keep walking briskly and make him go with you. When he gets to the stage of walking by without pulling at them, then he can progress to controlled calm greetings on the lead.

If he is slinking back, it is more likely he has read your cross body language than that he knows he has done wrong - I am as guilty of it as anyone, but you must praise him when he comes back no matter what. Praise him for a good few minutes, then calmly put the lead on and walk away.

And get into training to spot them before he does...

I've never let him greet dogs, people or cyclist when he's on the lead. He does still try it on some days but mostly he walks past them without any trouble.

I unfortunately have not been to group training classes as getting there was an issue so all the training I've done myself with him and this is the only bit I've not done very well with .

When he comes back to me when he's off the lead and nobody else is around then I make a big fuss of him and tell him he's a good boy. The body language makes sense, I hadn't thought of that .

The problem with spotting them is he always spots them before me and then pi$$es off in to the distance! . Not fun when he goes at a gallop .
I do deepen my voice to call him back and use a firm tone but all his attention goes out of the window when he sees other dogs. It's spot on when there are no other dogs around, he always stays within a certain amount of feet of me and always comes back when I call him but the minute he sees other dogs, all of that is forggotten.

He now just gets overexcited around other dogs but this silliness has only happened since he was attacked by a Staffie back in the Summer. Before that he'd be calm but now when he sees other dogs, it's nervous excitement in that he runs up to them and then throws himself arounf not quite knowing whether to bolt or stay and play.
I actually met a lovely guy in the park the other afternoon and he had his Rottie there, I've seen him around before but mainly when I've been walking back home. Anyway, he came up to me with his on the lead and I still had Harley on the lead, we introduced them and then let them off to play and they were fine. He kept really sensible and did actually come back to me when I called but with other dogs this doesn't happen .

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

Aha!! I diagnose delinquent Irish Setter diease!!

I should laugh but he will probably grow out of it - the trouble with Setters is they aren't necessarily very toy or food motivated unlike other breeds. Ours was never that fussed about other dogs - was more interested in stalking squirrels and bunnies but would ***** off when it suited with her paws in her ears........

 

[Tinker_Belle]

Remember lots of exercise only makes him fitter and in need of more - try 'entertaining' him in other ways with games or agility classes. Gundog classes may channel his natural instincts - this does not mean you have to take him on a shoot or agree with shooting. Think about exercising his brain rather than his body.

You have got to become or have something that is more attractive than another dog - easy to say and very hard to do i know from experience. The something can be a ball, other toy or titbit - this could be part of his feed. It may sound harsh but you could try letting him get very hungry and then offering part of his feed - use a line and as he goes towards the other dog check him and let him see the food. Gradually lenghten the line.

What ever you try - be consistent for a period of time, insistant and persistant.

you will win



good luck

He seems quite happy with an hour or so walk a day. After that he comes home and zonks . I hadn't actually thought about gundog classes. I do take a ball to keep him entertained and play games with him but to be honest, he doesn't really run that much, he tracks scents and is quite happy doing that. He obviously runs and leaps but that's more puppy behaviour than anything.

I use titbits to reward him with when we're on our own and he knows I have them with me.
I also always give him his dinner when he gets back rather than before he goes out.

He listens to me when we're alone but the minute another dog appears, he forgets everything and the other dog fills his mind totally. I don't have the same problem with our Spaniel so don't know if it could be the fact he is a Red Setter and therefore, has a non-existent attention span!

 

[Tinker_Belle]

Aha!! I diagnose delinquent Irish Setter diease!!

I should laugh but he will probably grow out of it - the trouble with Setters is they aren't necessarily very toy or food motivated unlike other breeds. Ours was never that fussed about other dogs - was more interested in stalking squirrels and bunnies but would ***** off when it suited with her paws in her ears........

Like I said, I don't have the same issue at all with the Spaniel . He does love his toys but isn't massively fussed by any food except dark chocolate .

For 14 months old, I am really pleased with the way he behaves in every other way. He is a really good boy considering his age and breed characterisitcs so I hope he does grow out of this .

 

[Spudlet]

I think setters are counted as an HPR breed? This is what my own trainer has to say about them http://www.onthescent.co.uk/downloads/Training-Tips--HPR-breeds.pdf

I find I have the best chance with Henry of holding his attention when we are already 'working', might be worth a shot

 

[Tinker_Belle]

I think setters are counted as an HPR breed? This is what my own trainer has to say about them http://www.onthescent.co.uk/downloads/Training-Tips--HPR-breeds.pdf

I find I have the best chance with Henry of holding his attention when we are already 'working', might be worth a shot

Yes, they are a HPR breed. Like I say, he will find a scent and latch on to it and follow it eagerly so he enjoys all that sort of thing and I have been hiding his ball for him to find which he loves but not so much that he comes back to me over other dogs .

 

[Tinker_Belle]

Katie-Lou and Blackcob; Thanks for that both of you. I'll have a look at the link and see what it's all about .

 

[Spudlet]

Yes, they are a HPR breed. Like I say, he will find a scent and latch on to it and follow it eagerly so he enjoys all that sort of thing and I have been hiding his ball for him to find which he loves but not so much that he comes back to me over other dogs .

Have you tried something like a rabbit skin ball? Just to make it a bit more enticing for him?

I would recommend my trainer, but you are not in civilised parts so it's probably a bit too far

 

[Tinker_Belle]

Have you tried something like a rabbit skin ball? Just to make it a bit more enticing for him?

I would recommend my trainer, but you are not in civilised parts so it's probably a bit too far

A rabbit skin ball? No, I haven't tried that. I've never heard of one in fact . Where would I look for one or get one?

Excuse me, Gloucesyershire is civilised enough for the likes of Ms. Hurley, Ms. Winslet and Ms. Moss .

So stick that in your pipe and smoke it! .

 

[MurphysMinder]

Nothing to really add to all the good advice already given, Hobytaz are you CC in disguise

 

[CorvusCorax]

PSML MM

No, still here, intermittently, but have to agree with everything HT said

Remember lots of exercise only makes him fitter and in need of more - try 'entertaining' him in other ways with games or agility classes. Gundog classes may channel his natural instincts - this does not mean you have to take him on a shoot or agree with shooting. Think about exercising his brain rather than his body.

You have got to become or have something that is more attractive than another dog - easy to say and very hard to do i know from experience. The something can be a ball, other toy or titbit - this could be part of his feed. It may sound harsh but you could try letting him get very hungry and then offering part of his feed - use a line and as he goes towards the other dog check him and let him see the food. Gradually lenghten the line.

What ever you try - be consistent for a period of time, insistant and persistant.

you will win

good luck

The only think I shall add, for people who think hand feeding is harsh, it is not, think of it thus, the dog will still be getting exactly the same daily allowance of food, just at a different time and in a different way, from your pocket and hand rather than out of a bowl.

TB if you do decide to do this, take the food he would have in his morning or evening meal (prob evening going by what you say about his routine) and decant it into the pockets of a coat or body warmer and feed him that way so that you are the source of the food and not a bowl.
If he knows he is going to get a big meal in the evening anyway, he will be less likely to work for food.
Obviously if you feed raw.....that might be messy

Also re feeding after walk, it is best to leave at least an hour between any excitable activity like a walk and feeding to prevent bloating

One more thing, remember if he is 'in drive' so to speak, IE already locked on and away towards the other dog, it is almost always too late to try and distract him - you need to be on top of his body language and be ready to call him away the minute he even looks like he is thinking about tanking

 

[blackcob]

A rabbit skin ball? No, I haven't tried that. I've never heard of one in fact . Where would I look for one or get one?

Rabbit skin tennis ball

I tried one for the untrainable dog, despite being mad keen at chasing rabbits she was a bit unenthusiastic about the ball (and has since eaten the rabbit skin off it ) but it's worth a go for a hardcore hunting breed.

 

[blackcob]

Obviously if you feed raw.....that might be messy

I have taken out a sandwich bag of raw mince before now - gross, but possible.

Ditto on pre-empting the 'gaze', you can't do a damn thing when they've already escalated into that state, I am now the master of spotting loose dogs before she does and looking an utter fool for running the other way, squealing and chucking dummies and toys in my wake.

 

[CorvusCorax]

DUCK brand food is essentially raw and can be broken up easily for training and hand feeding - a lot of working people use it for tracking etc (the salmon mousse works a treat too but stinky )

 

[blackcob]

Snip the corner off, squirt directly into dog's mouth.

I've taken to carrying cooked sliced sandwich chicken or turkey which has backfired somewhat in that I now attract random dogs from miles around.

Incidentally, have had good success with distraction techniques using this:

Which I now declare to be the ultimate toy and think everyone should have one.

 

[druid]

The best "trick" that I was taught by someone on here for my Lurcher was if he headed off to run in the opposite direction squeaking and squeeling and generally pretending I'd found the most exciting thing ever going the opposite way to where he was headed. It hasn't failed yet...and he gets treats and lots of praise for joinging in my running like a tool game...

Obviously the odd looks from other walkers are bit off putting but hey ho needs must!

 

[Tinker_Belle]

PSML MM

No, still here, intermittently, but have to agree with everything HT said



The only think I shall add, for people who think hand feeding is harsh, it is not, think of it thus, the dog will still be getting exactly the same daily allowance of food, just at a different time and in a different way, from your pocket and hand rather than out of a bowl.

TB if you do decide to do this, take the food he would have in his morning or evening meal (prob evening going by what you say about his routine) and decant it into the pockets of a coat or body warmer and feed him that way so that you are the source of the food and not a bowl.
If he knows he is going to get a big meal in the evening anyway, he will be less likely to work for food.
Obviously if you feed raw.....that might be messy

Also re feeding after walk, it is best to leave at least an hour between any excitable activity like a walk and feeding to prevent bloating

One more thing, remember if he is 'in drive' so to speak, IE already locked on and away towards the other dog, it is almost always too late to try and distract him - you need to be on top of his body language and be ready to call him away the minute he even looks like he is thinking about tanking

Yes, he has an evening meal usually about 40 minutes or so after he gets back from his walk.

I hadn't thought about the 'working for food' aspect. It does actually make sense and I can't see how it's cruel at all .

It looks like I am going to have to have eyes in my arse to stop him spotting other dogs before me .

I shall have a read back through this thread and make notes about the toys and treats aspect. I had also considered using a clicker too. We've got one somewhere I'm sure.

I have no problem stopping him going up to people off the lead. There were a group of teenagers at the park the other day and he desperately wanted to go and say hello, his body languge and sight was obviously telling me that but he didn't go up to them once I'd told him no. It's just other dogs he has this issue with.

His attention-span at times is totally ridiculous. I'm not sure he even has a brain at times .

 

[Tinker_Belle]

The best "trick" that I was taught by someone on here for my Lurcher was if he headed off to run in the opposite direction squeaking and squeeling and generally pretending I'd found the most exciting thing ever going the opposite way to where he was headed. It hasn't failed yet...and he gets treats and lots of praise for joinging in my running like a tool game...

Obviously the odd looks from other walkers are bit off putting but hey ho needs must!

Ah well, it can't be worse than other times I look like a fool so that's fine .

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

:

Which I now declare to be the ultimate toy and think everyone should have one.

Blackcob - where do I get one for The Moo? The little git needs an indestructible toy and that looks just the job!

 

[blackcob]

Slinky: Coolcanine.co.uk

Dax also has the trout...

Which she's had out for free play for months now and he's not even a tiny bit frayed, so properly indestructible. Although ours came in bizarre psychadelic colours, he's a hippy trout.