Recurrent colic - feel like there are no more avenues to try :(

[Equi]

Reading through it seems to me he may be taking in a lot of air. Muzzles and trickle nets don't allow for a lot of food and shouldn't be used ALL the time but for short periods. If he is taking in air he will have a sore gut. I would talk with a nutritionist and work with a plan of increasing non-muzzled grazing (a bare field or strip graze maybe?) and a larger holed net for small amount. Maybe take out the hard feed if he is prone to podge?

 

[AnShanDan]

You have had lots of really useful advice, it doesn't sound to me like your horse is out of options anyway.

I have a mare who, after 4 years of ownership, started having recurrent colics, sometimes gassy, sometimes spasmodic, they could be quite bad (ie trotting round the field, getting up and down constantly and very distressed) or mild (just not hungry for a few hours). I got very good at watching her for signs! We tried the full range of diagnostic tests, inc. scoping for ulcers but nothing was found. She eventually had an exploratory op and still nothing found! When I picked her up after the surgery, the vet who had done it said to me "perhaps we will have let the bad spirits out from inside her?" Well, I didn't know what to say to that!! The marvels of modern vet medicine!! But he was right, amazingly since then (Jan 2012) she has only had one v mild colic, no vet required.

So, basically, what I am saying is, it can just disappear again. However, I am still v careful with her management, esp. worming, feed changes, keep her on v little hard feed and a good mineral supplement, feed only hard hay and always keep her in some of the day with her hay.

Good luck, I know what a worry it is.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

what sort of grazing is he on?

i only ask because our old chap started to suffer with gas colic this summer..............he's actually better on short grass without a muzzle than the old seedy long stuff as he cant grab huge mouthfuls and gorge himself . So although its not ideal from a lammi perspective, its better for his tummy.

He's had to stay muzzled all winter so far as he is nannying my 3yo and the best field for the 3yo (is a stallion so i mean best fencing wise) unfortunately had areas of long old grass on it............the 3yo is doing a grand job of razing those to the ground and touch wood no colic since about July (when we made the long/old grass connection). He will prob only be able to go muzzle free for a few weeks in March when there really is no grass left on that field.

He has a mix of older hay and soaked new hay so that he can have a decent amount of long fibre overnight and he def eats slower with a bigger pile of low value hay than having to restrict him on good quality stuff.

 

[Pigeon]

Def cut out the alfalfa, it gives mine an upset stomach!!

 

[scrat]

The first few lines of your post could have described one of our horses. Had him since he was a yearling and no colic until he was seven. He had a bad first one, we almost lost him, but he pulled through. The next one was a month or so later but only a gassy colic so sorted with buscopan. Another gassy colic a few weeks later.
This happened between January and march last year. He was fine all year until first few weeks of winter routine then gassy colic. We have wracked our brains for an answer, what have we changed, what's different. This horse is a cribber but this has never been a problem for him. The only thing we did differently was not put hay out during the day for them to eat in the field in the winter. They are stabled at night and have generous amounts of hay and haylage so they always have some left. At the start of winter the grass is enough to nibble on during the day but on frosty or really wet days it leaves very little. I think that given that he was ok up until January last year it may have been a lack of fibre in the 7 hours or so he was out. As he is a cribber we try and make sure he has access to forage at all times. This was the first year we didn't (new yard). we were caught out at the start of winter this year thinking that there was enough grass for him so he got gassy colic. We now put hay out and so far so good. We have also stripped back our feed to a simple chaff, bran, soaked grass nuts and Kossolian. It has really made us think about the unnecessary amount of feed we give them. I know this may not be the reason for his bouts of colic but we are hopeful. Also just to mention another thing we noticed was that despite being an unclipped hairy cob type he does get cold and this is somthing we noticed prior to his last colic but don't know if its connected. Maybe if his gut isn't working properly he cannot keep warm? We are very careful with any changes to his diet and routine.

 

[paddy555]

have you considered mycotoxins?
if vet has done all the obvious that would be my consideration next.

You deal with the problem with a mycotoxin binder. Alltech make one ie mycosorb a+. The good news is that it is cheap and available without your vet.

I have all ours on the binder and it is really helping.
This link gives some info and there is loads more. Google "mycotoxin horse" and you will get specific horse info. Mycotoxins are well known in agriculture where binders are used.

http://www.knowmycotoxins.com/horse.htm

there have been a couple of threads on HHO, one a very detailed one, so if you search you should find them.

 

[SadKen]

That's interesting paddy555 - I did think initially of a pharmacological effect for the lad on our yard because of the repetitive nature of the episodes. There's nothing visible in the pasture that could be responsible but perhaps it's not visible. I'll look into it, thanks!

 

[Starbucks]

Hi, I've not read the whole thread, but wanted to share my experience.

My horse is a pretty dedicated cribber and has had gassy colic every now and then over the years, but when he finished hunting last season (so March) he was terrible and was getting colic more than once a week! He kept getting it at tea time when he'd been in from the field a couple of hours.. so vet thought something to do with the grass although it was still quite early for spring grass (although on grazing previously used for cattle rather than horses... apparently there's something about "cow grass" that can cause problems in horses??). Anyway, I moved him back to an old yard where he had been for years with no problems, turned him out 24/7 and he's been fine ever since. Been back at the yard where he was colicing for a few months and he's fine.

He was very very fit / a bit skinny at the time and wasn't eating quite as well as usual (due to hunting) so not sure if that was anything to do with it. He's not in work now because i'm pregnant but if he gets poorly in the spring again I'll move him to the fields / grass that he seems to get on better with.

Good luck! But they can get better!

 

[FairyLights]

tapeworms can cause colic have you done a Equisal saliva test?

 

[frostyfingers]

Ok, I've skip read the thread but forgive me if I'm repeating something already mentioned. Has anyone suggested "pedunculated lipoma" to you? There's a description here: http://en.wikivet.net/Lipoma,_Pedunculated_-_Horse to give you an idea. My pony suffered from this and I'm afraid the outcome wasn't good, but that doesn't mean something can't be done for you horse, if it is this. I hope you find the answer, I think colic in any form is one of the scariest things to deal with.

 

[paddy555]

That's interesting paddy555 - I did think initially of a pharmacological effect for the lad on our yard because of the repetitive nature of the episodes. There's nothing visible in the pasture that could be responsible but perhaps it's not visible. I'll look into it, thanks!

no it's not visible. It used to be called "the microscopic menace". Testing the grazing also is not really viable. The tests are hopelessly expensive, I read somewhere that Alltech can test and send it to US, around £200 a time and there are a LOT of mycotoxins!

Also of course it depends on the sample tested. A positive test would be positive but a negative one may just mean that the wrong vegetation was selected on a day when there was less risk.
When my lad was in vet clinic with colic they said worms or grass. I proved it was definitely not worms (and I am sure worms would have been OP's vet's first thought) so that left grass.

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

How digested does the sloopy Poo look? How is he weight wise. A high % of digestion occurs in the hind gut via fermentation. Maybe something isn't quite right there hence the gas and pain

 

[Slightlyconfused]

We had a mare who had recurrent colic and she used to get it when with out reason sometimes but when we think about it there was always a reason

Having a hooley in the field
Not gettin enough grass
Getting too cold (would need a heavy weight rug with 100g under rug while unclipped in the think of winter to keep warm and she wad a welsh)
And Apples, anything with apples in would cause colic.

That's very interesting Paddy. Will have a look.

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

How digested does the sloopy Poo look? How is he weight wise. A high % of digestion occurs in the hind gut via fermentation. Maybe something isn't quite right there hence the gas and pain

If it this could be the cause OP, yea-sacc is excellent for sorting out hind gut problems.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

A very long story but I will give bullet points:
- Owned horse for nearly seven years.
- No health issues for 5 and a half years.
- Out of the blue episodes of gaseous colic started eighteen months ago.
- Episodes relatively mild until the last 6 months when have lasted much longer.
- Bloods taken and raised liver enzymes shown. Had a course of antibiotics and supplements introduced of milk thistle and legaphyton. Blood tests again after 4 weeks showed that one level is back to normal and the other was still raised but coming down. Therefore continue with supplements and retest (vet coming tomorrow.)
- Had an impaction and needed hospitalization a month ago. Luckily no surgery but part of the colon became trapped by the kidney.
- Feared the worst today as he kept going down and he only does this when he is ill. Assumed he was going to colic so lunged. Put him back in stable and went down again. Left him this time but do not think it was colic as no other of his usual symptoms (pawing, lip curling, lying prostrate, grunting) After much farting and pooing he was back on his feet on his own and eating again. His poos are very wet, smelly and he is farting big time. I'm wondering whether he has a 'tummy bug?' Sloppy poos for last 2 days and not himself.

Is this possible for him to go from such an easy, straight forward horse, healthy horse to one with all of these problems?

My fear is that if it is colic I literally have nothing more to try and I am terrified that long term I cannot keep putting him through these episodes or indeed my daughter whose horse he is. She is beside herself with worry and has lost all of her love of horses right now. For anyone else that deals with a horse that colics they will understand the constant panic about how your horse is looking, is he showing any faint signs of discomfort, is he on his feet, does he look tired? It is so wearing to deal with and I can't bear to think of him suffering without any obvious way to turn.
I am so sorry that this is such a self indulgent thread but I am at a total loss......

Feel for you mine had colic for the first time last night, also lost my pony to colic caused by entrapment. A livery is a frequent colick horse as was the one who left. The one who left had test after test bloods wormed, you name it nothing showed up but when she was having a colic bout we were to administer http://pro-equine.com/products/colikare and very shortly after including walking she improved. The other one reduces the colic attacks by giving the horse Protextin in every feed, as the one time he ran out, during that week he colicked.

 

[BuzzyBea]

I just wanted to thank you all for taking the time to reply to my thread. Thought I would give you a little update on our boy.
Vet came out on Friday for injections and bloods to check his liver enzyme rate. We talked about his mild colic the day before and his upset tummy which co-incidentally had cleared up by then. We talked about the possibility of a virus and also possible food intolerances and agreed that once we had time to see if muzzling him was working we would then look at taking out elements of his feed.
However he decided to cause trouble today by having colic again!! He had his feed and wet hay early then my daughter went up later for an hours hack during which he was totally fine. Got back, untacked and then he straight away started scraping and went down He was uncomfortable for quite a while but then went downhill a bit so that I had to leave work to go and see him. He wasn't too bad initially but very soon was lying flat out grunting. Throughout the entire episode he has farted like crazy and pooed. I phoned the vet and discussed the fact that as he hasn't been in the field for 4 days it isn't a grass issue so therefore we agreed that with immediate effect we would remove all short feed apart from a handful of bran mash for him to take his supplements. The more I have read about feed intolerance the more I think this could be what is causing the problems - at least this is what I am desperately hoping. Hopefully tomorrow is a bright new day and the first of many that are colic free. Wish me luck!!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Good luck!

I had a mare with food intolerances (not colic) and as soon as we found what was causing the problems, she was like a different horse!

 

[BuzzyBea]

Good luck!

I had a mare with food intolerances (not colic) and as soon as we found what was causing the problems, she was like a different horse!

Do you mind me asking what she was intolerant to?

 

[Cobbytype]

Sorry to hear your boy had another episode of colic - such a worry for you.

I think you're very wise to remove the hard feed for the time being. Plain hay and/or grazing to start with to get his tummy settled sounds like the right idea.

None of my business really and all that, but please don't leave him for too long without forage - the build up of acids in an empty stomach won't do him any good at all. I know it's difficult when they have big appetites.

Completely different scenario, but my boy got poorly with ulcers after he had rear end paralysis. The vet recommended lots of long, wet winter grass, which seemed to make him gassy, so I would leave him for a couple of hours after bringing him in. He'd be farty and doing lots of small droppings. Then I read an article on Horse.com about ulcers and it recommended plenty of hay to reduce the acidity in the stomach. As soon as I started a more or less ad lib hay regime, his tummy settled down no end. I felt awful as my original method had made him worse. But as I say, it's none of my business and I'd hate to think my good intentions made matters worse!

And here's a bit of virtual good luck coming your way

 

[BuzzyBea]

Thank you!!
Just to clear up from my original messages as I think I might have misled some people!! Oops! He has ad lib hay day and night and is only muzzled in the field for half a day and then comes in again to hay. I stated that he has a trickle net and apologise for the wrong wording as he has a small holed net and not a trickle net and is very good at getting decent amounts out of it at once!!

 

[w1bbler]

Have you tried him without wetting the hay. Apologies if its already been said, but friends horse was having soaked hay due to lammy. Started regularly colicing, stopped when he went back to dry hay. Another thing to try if removing all hard feed doesn't work.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Are you on sandy soil?

 

[charlie76]

Thought I had messaged you! Sorry! Are your fields near a water course?

 

[B&J]

I cant offer any advice but just wanted to say I really feel for you. My horse had colic for the first time just before Christmas, since then I have been utterly paranoid about his poo, how he looks, the speed he eats, literally everything. This morning I found him flat out in the same spot where I found him starting to colic, heart in mouth I went over and woke him up, luckily he was just in a deep sleep; anyone who has found their horse down will know that sick feeling. Big hugs for you xxx