'Red Tractor' farm cruelty - can you believe the farmers defence?

[canteron]

I don't know whether anyone has seen, but there has been another farm, this time in Norfolk, where they have documented appalling abuse to pigs, basically hitting, beating, all sorts of vile animal cruelty. This is particularly shocking as this farm is signed up to the Red Tractor Standards.

On BBC4 Farming World today they had the farmer on, who thought this was a good defence.....

The pig in question had been clubbed to death with Iron Bars - which too a long time and was pretty barbaric. The farmer said the story was that the pig had broken its leg, so they were trying to put it out of its misery???? He said that he didn't let them use his shot gun so they had no alternative way to kill the animal.

Anyone else feel this asks more questions than it answers?

 

[mon]

A sharp blow to the skull can kill without too much stress if done correctly ministry books quote this as a recommended way with lambs and piglets, whilst I can't see it done it happens with small animals, larger get shot but do need a licence, other will split throats again needs doing right, farmers don't have access to lethal injections, but farms need someone appointed to humanely kill poorly stock.

 

[eahotson]

There was a lot more to it than that I think.The Red Tractor scheme also make most of their inspections as announced.Suprisingly they never find much wrong.

 

[mon]

All aspects of animal keeping will have a few 'bad apples' pigs are probably most likely to be mis treated but 99% of farmers are good with animals as poorly animals are bad news. We pay to be in Farm Assured but wonder whether it is worth it.

 

[Alec Swan]

The owner of the farm, a Stephen Brown, has this morning been found dead.

There are no further details, but it would seem that as the police are not viewing his death, as being suspicious, the conclusion to be drawn is that he took his own life.

Regardless of the rights or the wrongs, RIP Stephen.

a.

 

[Dirtymare]

Having watched Mr Brown being interviewed on Look East the other night, it was obvious the poor man was absolutely devastated about what had occured. Truely awful events have occured...............

Sympathies to the Brown family.
RIP Stephen Brown.

 

[BBH]

Sorry state of affairs all around.

 

[YasandCrystal]

All aspects of animal keeping will have a few 'bad apples' pigs are probably most likely to be mis treated but 99% of farmers are good with animals as poorly animals are bad news. We pay to be in Farm Assured but wonder whether it is worth it.

I agree with this. The problem I think lies in the greedy supermarkets who are ever cutting the farmers paltry profits. It's expensive to keep animals well - it's pretty labour intensive, yet the supermarkets always seem happy to screw the most profit they can by underpaying the 'grower'. It was the same case with chickens.
I had a friend with links to a pig farm (not the one in question) and she said the conditions did look horrible, overcrowded pens and lots of filth. The staff felt for the poor pigs and that the slaughter house was a welcome release for them.
Blame the supermarkets and 'us' the consumers for buying cheap meats and driving prices down.

 

[mrussell]

Poor, poor man..I really feel for his family. RIP Stephen Brown.

 

[BBH]

I agree with this. The problem I think lies in the greedy supermarkets who are ever cutting the farmers paltry profits. It's expensive to keep animals well - it's pretty labour intensive, yet the supermarkets always seem happy to screw the most profit they can by underpaying the 'grower'. It was the same case with chickens.
I had a friend with links to a pig farm (not the one in question) and she said the conditions did look horrible, overcrowded pens and lots of filth. The staff felt for the poor pigs and that the slaughter house was a welcome release for them.
Blame the supermarkets and 'us' the consumers for buying cheap meats and driving prices down.

I totally agree with this sentiment in that if we want quality we have to be prepared to pay for it however, lack of profit is no excuse for cruelty in any fashion whether your margins are squeezed or not.

I do feel sorry for this chap though as he may have been totally unaware of how his workers were treating the animals. If he was complicit in it well thats another story and given the chap has died i'll leave it at that.

 

[eahotson]

R.I.P Stephen.Very sorry and for the family.Curiously enough today was reading an article in the BBC Food Magazine about the truth of the BOGOF offers.They were saying that the supermarkets were basically screwing the supliers.There is suposed to be a government bill coming out soon which hopefully will hopefully stop the worst of this abuse (of the supliers by the supermarkets).It will come as suprise to people that the supermarkets are opposing it.No idea why!

 

[canteron]

Really sorry about the poor farmer.

I have several pig farmer 'friends' and am convinced that the financial pressures of the job are making them cut corners and making unethical things seem normal. You can almost see them becoming harder and more 'farmer grumpy' than before.

Whatever, how do we put pressure on the Supermarkets so that it becomes in their financial interest to insist and pay for good welfare standards. It seems that everyone has so many problems at the moment that a bit of animal cruelty is acceptable?

 

[Amaranta]

Poor farmer, whilst I was as disgusted as the next person at the cruelty shown on the video, my heart goes out to this farmer.

I agree the supermarkets put enormous pressure on their suppliers, the only way to help to stop them is to not buy your meat etc from them. I am lucky however, there are several smallholders in my area who keep us supplied, not only does it taste better but it is not that much more expensive either. I am aware however that not everyone is as lucky as us in that respect.

 

[stencilface]

Awful all round really RIP Stephen

Thing is, the way things are set up, its going to be very difficult to see prices go up isn't it. People expect meat these days, every week - like its a right, not a privilege to be able to afford it. Surely in time gone by, you had meat if you could afford it, and saved it for special occasions, hence probably the tradition in some cultures (probably used to be in ours) of slaughtering an animal for guests.

With unemployment rising, people cannot afford food as it is (so they think) if prices go up, there will be uproar from the great unwashed. If things went back to the simple days, shorter chain, meat comes from local farms - there are farms close to urban centres, surely it would be cheaper, without the travel (fuel - which is ever rising) costs, and all the middle men involved.

 

[BeesKnees]

Whatever, how do we put pressure on the Supermarkets so that it becomes in their financial interest to insist and pay for good welfare standards.

Stop buying 'misery meat'! Care about where the meat has come from.

It's perfectly possible to buy free range, outdoor reared, and higher welfare meat at reasonable prices at supermarkets like Asda. Buy cheaper cuts of free range meat and put them in a casserole / slow cooker instead of the premium cuts.

How many people now strip a chicken carcass properly rather than just eating the breast and a bit of leg and then chucking it away? Use the bits for stir fry or boil up the bones for stock and make a delicious thick soup with the leftover bits of chicken and lots of veg. It's so easy!

Eat sustainable fish like mackerel. It's cheap.

There are many good farmers out there trying to keep animal welfare at the centre of what they do. They deserve our support.

 

[BBH]

Stop buying 'misery meat'! Care about where the meat has come from.

It's perfectly possible to buy free range, outdoor reared, and higher welfare meat at reasonable prices at supermarkets like Asda. Buy cheaper cuts of free range meat and put them in a casserole / slow cooker instead of the premium cuts.

How many people now strip a chicken carcass properly rather than just eating the breast and a bit of leg and then chucking it away? Use the bits for stir fry or boil up the bones for stock and make a delicious thick soup with the leftover bits of chicken and lots of veg. It's so easy!


Eat sustainable fish like mackerel. It's cheap.

There are many good farmers out there trying to keep animal welfare at the centre of what they do. They deserve our support.

Fantastic post.

 

[AmyMay]

. The problem I think lies in the greedy supermarkets who are ever cutting the farmers paltry profits. It's expensive to keep animals well - it's pretty labour intensive, yet the supermarkets always seem happy to screw the most profit they can by underpaying the 'grower'. It was the same case with chickens.

How is this an excuse for calculated cruelty and beating a pig to death with an iron bar?????

 

[Archangel]

People with a cruel streak who get a kick from it... where will they get a job? Exactly.

 

[mrussell]

People with a cruel streak who get a kick from it... where will they get a job? Exactly.

If I had my way, on the side of the motorway, picking up litter in a boiler suit marked "HM Prisons" and when those jobs have all gone.... maybe in a cage having shampoo forced up their backsides. You know, so they feel like they are giving something back to society...

 

[Aces_High]

Stop buying 'misery meat'! Care about where the meat has come from.

It's perfectly possible to buy free range, outdoor reared, and higher welfare meat at reasonable prices at supermarkets like Asda. Buy cheaper cuts of free range meat and put them in a casserole / slow cooker instead of the premium cuts.

How many people now strip a chicken carcass properly rather than just eating the breast and a bit of leg and then chucking it away? Use the bits for stir fry or boil up the bones for stock and make a delicious thick soup with the leftover bits of chicken and lots of veg. It's so easy!

Eat sustainable fish like mackerel. It's cheap.

There are many good farmers out there trying to keep animal welfare at the centre of what they do. They deserve our support.

Agree Agree Agree - waste drives me mad and people who are not even slightly interested as to where their food has come from. **Dashes off before running into a full Parlimentary Debate which will require me to be here all night **

 

[Aces_High]

I would also like to add, I feel desperately sad for the poor farmer's children, wife, friends and family. Support and love to them through this horrid time.

 

[JanetGeorge]

I would also like to add, I feel desperately sad for the poor farmer's children, wife, friends and family. Support and love to them through this horrid time.

Ditto! You can be sure that since the story broke regarding the cruelty, the family will have been subjected to some pretty hateful (and frightening) phone calls, mail etc.

We have no way of knowing to what degree the farmer was responsible for pigs being ill-treated by staff - obviously an employer IS ultimately responsible for his employees' actions. He - after all - hires them, trains them, supervises them and sets the rules. But his wife and children will have suffered enormously even before farmer took his life - the children will have been given stick at school and from their friends, etc.

 

[Ibblebibble]

Ditto! You can be sure that since the story broke regarding the cruelty, the family will have been subjected to some pretty hateful (and frightening) phone calls, mail etc.

We have no way of knowing to what degree the farmer was responsible for pigs being ill-treated by staff - obviously an employer IS ultimately responsible for his employees' actions. He - after all - hires them, trains them, supervises them and sets the rules. But his wife and children will have suffered enormously even before farmer took his life - the children will have been given stick at school and from their friends, etc.

very well put JG.
as a friend of an ex pig farmer i can tell you how these things happen, the price of pork is pushed lower and lower by the supermarkets meaning that the farmer is spending more on wages and pig feed than he is making, so he starts to cut corners, knowledgable staff are laid off in favour of cheap and often foreign labour, feed is sourced as cheaply as possible and rations are limited.
The suicide rate in farmers in higher than in any other group in society apart from teenagers

 

[mon]

With the red tractor status removed over night his pigs became a liability where are they going to be sold? Got to be fed and no Market for them, pigs would be produced on contract and can't just take them to Market.

 

[vienna]

Some of these videos and photos dont make nice viewing.
I am in support of farmers and they like most people in todays climate do get it very tough.
Thing i if my cat/dog/horse broke its leg and I clubbed it to death as could not/would not afford vet the animal protesters would be out in force.
I live in the city!
You know sometimes no matter how big your ego/pride if you cannot afford to farm and take into account fallen stock its time to admit defeat , sell up, move on. NOT cut costs at expense of animal welfare.
NO MAN farmer or factory worker is above the law.
People are quick on here to say PTS if you cannot afford horse, they NEVER say dispatch yourself.
Food for thought...literally.

 

[Echo Bravo]

^^^^^ Hear hear well said.

 

[BBH]

Do you know I've read more about the abuse on his farm and its really disgusting. He really took his eye off the ball and went around with them shut if he knew nothing of what was going on.

Really makes you want to be veggie.

I think Britain is losing its mantel as a nation of animal lovers.

 

[YasandCrystal]

How is this an excuse for calculated cruelty and beating a pig to death with an iron bar?????

It's not an excuse for anything. What I was saying is that alot of animal cruelty in the form of 'poor conditions' is price driven. If farmers pay for cheap labour then they may attract careless cruel workers - of course that is not right and of course the farmer has a duty to supervise and be vigilant, but cruelty happens even when you least expect it. Look at poor Anne the elephant - who would believe someone could be so cruel to such a gentle giant?

If the public start REALLY caring then there will be more 'happy farms' and the big supermarkets will have to start respecting the poor farmers by paying a decent price for the meat.

 

[Daddy_Long_Legs]

God help his family, they will be going through an awful time at the moment. My thoughts are with them.

 

[MagicMelon]

Having seen what is known as one of the 'best' pig farms in my area, I was pretty shocked by what I saw - mothers kept in basically a cage where they can't move sideways / turn round etc. I believe this is so she doesnt crush her piglets. I believe they're only in their 'cage' for a few weeks/months but wow what a horrid life! The young pigs are kept in rooms with no windows and horrendous ventilation (the heat and smell makes your eyes water!), of course they're kept like this to exacting temperatures etc. to aid rapid growth. Again though, what a horrid life for them - there's not one part of it which is natural. Very sad to see to be honest even though these pigs were kept perfectly clean and were probably looked after fine. That's life for many intensively farmed animals sadly! But I dont agree at all with ending their lives in anything but the quickest / most humane way possible.