Red worm in poo

[poiuytrewq]

Been poo picking this morning as every morning and notice my newer horses poo is full of red worm.
I wormed last night with Equimax to cover tapes. I don’t do saliva tests and just worm automatically every Autumn and Spring. So this is why they are being expelled I get that but am worried none the less.
He was wormed in December, Equest for encysted red, as were my others. Does this mean it hasn’t worked or that he has a massively high burden?
Ive never seen worms in any of my horses poo before even after worming.
To recap, I worm for tapes every 6 months and every December for encysted then FEC through summer.

 

[milliepops]

I had very similar last week. Young horse had equest 3 months ago then eqvalan duo a week ago. 2 days later poos picked were full of small red worm.
I'm doing a fec next week and will then do them more frequently than normal to see what's up. My yearling in the same field on the same routine didn't have the same problem.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I had very similar last week. Young horse had equest 3 months ago then eqvalan duo a week ago. 2 days later poos picked were full of small red worm.
I'm doing a fec next week and will then do them more frequently than normal to see what's up. My yearling in the same field on the same routine didn't have the same problem.

I figured I’d do a worm count in a week or so.
Im half wondering now if this has anything to do with him seeming uncomfortable tummy wise, I was going to scope but may just hold off a bit

 

[HBB]

I am beginning to wonder if there is a problem with Equest?
The same has just happened to 2 of my ponies. Both wormed December with Equest, worm count sent in 2 weeks ago and I wormed with Equimax the same day just after I collected their poo samples. Next day masses of red worm in both ponies poo's and worm count came back as less than 50 for both?!

 

[poiuytrewq]

I am beginning to wonder if there is a problem with Equest?
The same has just happened to 2 of my ponies. Both wormed December with Equest, worm count sent in 2 weeks ago and I wormed with Equimax the same day just after I collected their poo samples. Next day masses of red worm in both ponies poo's and worm count came back as less than 50 for both?!

Really interesting. I was shocked at it this morning, I always think I’m pretty on the ball with worming .

 

[HBB]

@poiuytrewq I felt the same too. I alternate annually between Panacur 5 day and Equest for December worming. I worm twice a year and treat for tape about now, then worm count for the rest of the year.
My vet was quite concerned too, so I’m glad I saw your post and will bring it to his attention, thank you!

 

[Getbackboys]

equest pramox for tapes end of autumn but will also cover red encysted, tapes are not that common anymore with regularly wormed horses exclud foals etc, its the red encycted thats the bugger he needs to be dealt with directly if not worrying about tapes due to previous regular worming, so worm with equest pramox after 1sr frost instead of end of autumn, then worm with equest 13 weeks later. hope that makes sense

 

[milliepops]

eh? both the OPs horse and mine both had equest at an appropriate time. the tape thing is not really relevant here other than being a trigger for giving another dose of something different, it's small redworm that we are seeing. hence the question about whether the equest worked, or whether the horse has a high burden for another reason.

I am really loath to over use equest because when we have high levels of resistance to that, as with some other wormers, we are all in trouble.

 

[SEL]

I've had loads of friends (proper horsey people who understand worming, rather than the throw any drug down them whenever crowd....) report worms in poo recently. One actually took a photo of the worm it was so big.

I wonder whether that warm, wet winter we've just endured meant horses got reinfected quickly?

We do have a tapeworm problem on our land so mine will get dosed for that soon and then I'll count I think.

 

[SEL]

I am beginning to wonder if there is a problem with Equest?
The same has just happened to 2 of my ponies. Both wormed December with Equest, worm count sent in 2 weeks ago and I wormed with Equimax the same day just after I collected their poo samples. Next day masses of red worm in both ponies poo's and worm count came back as less than 50 for both?!

That's odd - but I've heard before that worm counts can be unreliable because they don't always pass worm eggs in every poo

 

[Ellibelli]

I am beginning to wonder if there is a problem with Equest?
The same has just happened to 2 of my ponies. Both wormed December with Equest, worm count sent in 2 weeks ago and I wormed with Equimax the same day just after I collected their poo samples. Next day masses of red worm in both ponies poo's and worm count came back as less than 50 for both?!

This - I've stopped using Equest now and always do the 5 day Panacur instead as I got positive worm counts after using Equest on a couple of new horses

 

[milliepops]

I wonder whether that warm, wet winter we've just endured meant horses got reinfected quickly?

maybe. i was so surprised by mine, I am pretty obsessive about de-pooing their field because I knew the foal would be really susceptible to worms. it's only those 2 and the dam that have been on that field, previous years it has been grazed by sheep. I'm so puzzled that only the 3yo had this enormous worm shedding thing happen. though of course I don't know his history at all, i figured his winter-time equest would re-set the redworm situ.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I have to worm for tapes and don’t bother testing simply because the fields here have a lot of harvest mites which are a carrier for tape worm. @Ellibelli I have looked at that but read that there is high resistance now to Panacur.
I too am pretty obsessive about poo picking. Horses are out overnight and the field is cleared when they come in. It’s only ever been my horses out there as it was arable land when we moved here.
Im interested to see what the FEC results are shortly.

 

[Britestar]

Could the young horse have already been resistant when he arrived? That would be a big problem.

 

[Getbackboys]

my reply is what i have been told to do by the worming specialist at the feed merchant i go to. he insisted that if i was not too concerned about tapes not to worry about worming at end of autumn but wait until first frost to worm for red encysted, cant say i have ever had a problem following this rule with any of mine, during summer they get egg counted, so no over use of equest.

 

[milliepops]

my reply is what i have been told to do by the worming specialist at the feed merchant i go to. he insisted that if i was not too concerned about tapes not to worry about worming at end of autumn but wait until first frost to worm for red encysted, cant say i have ever had a problem following this rule with any of mine, during summer they get egg counted, so no over use of equest.

The question was not about whether to worm for tape or not though, but about why a horse would expell a large amount of redworm having been treated for them a few months ago.

 

[poiuytrewq]

The question was not about whether to worm for tape or not though, but about why a horse would expell a large amount of redworm having been treated for them a few months ago.

yes, this is exactly the question. The fact I’ve even mentioned tapes is just to give an idea of my routine and because it’s obviously the reason they have suddenly been expelled last night. My worry is that he shouldn’t have had them. I’m actually glad I did do the Equimax as this potential issue may have not been spotted otherwise.

 

[milliepops]

Same here, i thought I'd just go ahead and treat both mine for tape rather than test first, on the basis that the foal hasn't had a proper tape dose yet and the 3yo probably wouldn't have liked the equisal swab that much as he's not brilliant with being faffed with yet. I'm also glad I went ahead because otherwise I'd be assuming my other measures were keeping on top of things.

 

[ycbm]

Westgate have been offering reduced price tests to test for moxidectin (Equest) resistance for 2 years, so I assume they know that there is an issue. Mine test clear after moxidectin, thankfully. To get reduced price, you send the end label off the wormer box.

 

[milliepops]

Westgate have been offering reduced price tests to test for moxidectin (Equest) resistance for 2 years, so I assume they know that there is an issue. Mine test clear after moxidectin, thankfully. To get reduced price, you send the end label off the wormer box.

i saw that but i thought you had to have done a test before worming for it to qualify as a returning customer. I didn't count mine in the winter, i just wormed them. but will bear this in mind next time i use it.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’ll have a look at that ycbm
I don’t have the box but I was unaware there was a test for resistance so that’s interesting.
Also replies to @Britestar ??‍ Maybe the above test will clear or confirm that.

 

[Fruitcake]

It's not the horse that is resistant: it's the worms.

If a new horse arrives carrying worms resistant to a particular chemical, they can then "infect" the land with these resistant worms, which then end up causing an issue for the rest of the herd.

It's a good idea to WEC a couple of weeks after worming to check for resistance.

Is there a possibility that you underestimated weight and so might have under-dosed the Equest in December?

 

[milliepops]

Dunno about the OP but my wormy one is a 3yo 16hh slightly weedy tb so should have been well covered, he had the full tube.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Dunno about the OP but my wormy one is a 3yo 16hh slightly weedy tb so should have been well covered, he had the full tube.

Same, in a different way.
Equimax covers up to 700kg and this is a 16.1 TB
I haven’t weighed him but we have a bigger TB at work than him that’s not in training who weighs 580kg so mine won’t be that much I’d imagine

 

[milliepops]

this was a timely read, popped up on my FB just now.

https://www.westgatelabs.co.uk/case-studies/fern-a-young-horse-with-a-challenging-redworm-problem

 

[poiuytrewq]

I actually emailed Westgaw

this was a timely read, popped up on my FB just now.

https://www.westgatelabs.co.uk/case-studies/fern-a-young-horse-with-a-challenging-redworm-problem

Hopeful news for you! ?

 

[poiuytrewq]

I emailed Westgate and have had this reply back, they don’t sound too concerned!

 

[tristar]

It's not the horse that is resistant: it's the worms.

If a new horse arrives carrying worms resistant to a particular chemical, they can then "infect" the land with these resistant worms, which then end up causing an issue for the rest of the herd.

It's a good idea to WEC a couple of weeks after worming to check for resistance.

Is there a possibility that you underestimated weight and so might have under-dosed the Equest in December?

this

the question is , is it under worming or over worming, that is the question

 

[milliepops]

I emailed Westgate and have had this reply back, they don’t sound too concerned!

that's good! I'm just off to fill my poo pots this afternoon

 

[poiuytrewq]

that's good! I'm just off to fill my poo pots this afternoon

I think I need to give it another week, let me know what comes back with yours?