Redefining how we view natives?

[maya2008]

I know people often say natives can take up a lot of leg and weight but if you look at me on my 13.2 New Forest. I am 5f.2 and 8 stone and I don't think he could take someone that much bigger than me. I do think there is a trend for more athletic larger natives now across all the breeds and some of the larger connies and new forests are commanding high prices, not as much as the dressage warmbloods but they are not the poor person's alternative to a fancy warmblood and the natives from the competition lines are not always straightforward as I am finding with Bert.

View attachment 159634

I have a 12.2hh and 12.3hh who both take up 5ft4 of leg and 9 stone without blinking - and that 9st plus tack is within their weight limit and not on the edge. Both are built like tanks.

I also have a 13hh who would prefer her rider under 9st thank you and is much more finely built. She lacks the build and weighs less herself.

There is variation within any breed.

 

[Cloball]

It's a fact, our natives are dwindling whereas WBs, TBs, cobs and even the newly invented mini cobs are everywhere. Did you know some of our native breeds are classed as endangered? What frustrates me is reading articles about imported ponies grazing wild areas (Koniks I think they're called) when we have our own breeds that need support.

The problem I think is there is published research with Koniks although how comparable that is to the UK is a very reasonable criticism. Charities therefore seem to be able to get funding for Koniks. Lowther got caught out by this but seem to have two herds of Fells now as well as Koniks in order to 'do research' the rationale as to why you want to compare natives to foreign breeds is a bit lost on me as this could jeopardise our natives but we do need to do something to support them. If it is favourable I suppose it will help but I honestly think they were caught out.

I do know of a few people doing conservation grazing with fells and the RSPB here use local Carneddau ponies that have recently been recognised as an ancient feral population genetically different to other Welsh ponies they just don't have a stud book/breed registry etc.

 

[eahotson]

The problem I think is there is published research with Koniks although how comparable that is to the UK is a very reasonable criticism. Charities therefore seem to be able to get funding for Koniks. Lowther got caught out by this but seem to have two herds of Fells now as well as Koniks in order to 'do research' the rationale as to why you want to compare natives to foreign breeds is a bit lost on me as this could jeopardise our natives but we do need to do something to support them. If it is favourable I suppose it will help but I honestly think they were caught out.

I do know of a few people doing conservation grazing with fells and the RSPB here use local Carneddau ponies that have recently been recognised as an ancient feral population genetically different to other Welsh ponies they just don't have a stud book/breed registry etc.

Fascinating about the Carnddau.Must look them up.

 

[Gloi]

The Welsh section B has now been added to the Rare Breeds list too, never in all my days did I expect that! They were prolific through the 70s to 90s, so many super breeders of great stock.

@Gloi , I read comments regarding ponies that were rather 'well covered', was that the case?

The adult ones , yes, in the ridden classes. Many were blowing cantering round. They'd not have got up Skiddaw.

 

[Gloi]

The thing that really puts me off warmbloods apart from the fact that I'm not brave enough to ride one these days(if i ever was), is the horrific rate of attrition shall we say. I know people who breed and import them and the percentage that get from foal to a sound 7yo is horribly low.

 

[marmalade76]

The thing that really puts me off warmbloods apart from the fact that I'm not brave enough to ride one these days(if i ever was), is the horrific rate of attrition shall we say. I know people who breed and import them and the percentage that get from foal to a sound 7yo is horribly low.

Same as TBs, there's a massive amount of wastage. And I've often thought that whatever is exported from the country of origin is the cast offs.

 

[Cloball]

The thing that really puts me off warmbloods apart from the fact that I'm not brave enough to ride one these days(if i ever was), is the horrific rate of attrition shall we say. I know people who breed and import them and the percentage that get from foal to a sound 7yo is horribly low.

I used to ride a few warmblood youngsters and I find my fell far more exciting and intelligent (not that this is a WB bashing thread don't come for me). I just don't enjoy sitting the huge movement these days with my wobbly joints and bad back. I want comfy 4wd economical sound movement and close to the ground

 

[Cloball]

Fascinating about the Carnddau.Must look them up.

Very interesting, there's a forum member with a lovely little pink one.

 

[Gloi]

I want comfy 4wd economical sound movement and close to the ground

Sh....You want an Icy.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I think what we really need to do, as horse people (riders, breeders, owners, judges, trainers etc) is redefine why we think we need certain breeds of horses.

Most lower level sport and every day leisure riders do not need purpose-bred horses. I think the fall in popularity of the all-rounder type is a lot of the reason why people find themselves over horsed, sports horses are overbred and many sports horses find themselves in inappropriate homes.

I also think we need to challenge the idea that a weight carrier horse must be a big horse. A solidly put together cob or native, or even a proper old fashioned Arab is often a stronger little beast than our bigger but often hypermobile warmbloods.

It does frustrate me that at the lower levels short coupled horses, and less flashy even-paced movers are often marked down in dressage. I really think until we are at the upper levels of sport, marks should be strictly based on performing the movements correctly. Points for style can come in to differentiate the most correct, at the top.

I'd love to see more natives in dressage. I adored MP's welsh, it was so beautifully schooled and a joy to see succeed. But I'd also like to see more Arabs, and not to see Iberian types being bred closer and closer to a warmblood type because they are marked better if they are the 'sporty' Spanish and not the traditional type.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could be more focused on correctness is schooling and way of going, and making the best horse out of what you have?

 

[marmalade76]

I think what we really need to do, as horse people (riders, breeders, owners, judges, trainers etc) is redefine why we think we need certain breeds of horses.

Most lower level sport and every day leisure riders do not need purpose-bred horses. I think the fall in popularity of the all-rounder type is a lot of the reason why people find themselves over horsed, sports horses are overbred and many sports horses find themselves in inappropriate homes.

I also think we need to challenge the idea that a weight carrier horse must be a big horse. A solidly put together cob or native, or even a proper old fashioned Arab is often a stronger little beast than our bigger but often hypermobile warmbloods.

It does frustrate me that at the lower levels short coupled horses, and less flashy even-paced movers are often marked down in dressage. I really think until we are at the upper levels of sport, marks should be strictly based on performing the movements correctly. Points for style can come in to differentiate the most correct, at the top.

I'd love to see more natives in dressage. I adored MP's welsh, it was so beautifully schooled and a joy to see succeed. But I'd also like to see more Arabs, and not to see Iberian types being bred closer and closer to a warmblood type because they are marked better if they are the 'sporty' Spanish and not the traditional type.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could be more focused on correctness is schooling and way of going, and making the best horse out of what you have?

It is a shame re Iberians, to me they are the original dressage horse.

 

[Cloball]

Sh....You want an Icy.

You know they are one of the few breeds of horse I haven't actually ridden

 

[eahotson]

I think what we really need to do, as horse people (riders, breeders, owners, judges, trainers etc) is redefine why we think we need certain breeds of horses.

Most lower level sport and every day leisure riders do not need purpose-bred horses. I think the fall in popularity of the all-rounder type is a lot of the reason why people find themselves over horsed, sports horses are overbred and many sports horses find themselves in inappropriate homes.

I also think we need to challenge the idea that a weight carrier horse must be a big horse. A solidly put together cob or native, or even a proper old fashioned Arab is often a stronger little beast than our bigger but often hypermobile warmbloods.

It does frustrate me that at the lower levels short coupled horses, and less flashy even-paced movers are often marked down in dressage. I really think until we are at the upper levels of sport, marks should be strictly based on performing the movements correctly. Points for style can come in to differentiate the most correct, at the top.

I'd love to see more natives in dressage. I adored MP's welsh, it was so beautifully schooled and a joy to see succeed. But I'd also like to see more Arabs, and not to see Iberian types being bred closer and closer to a warmblood type because they are marked better if they are the 'sporty' Spanish and not the traditional type.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could be more focused on correctness is schooling and way of going, and making the best horse out of what you have?

I agree with everything you have written and sadly about the Iberian horses.

 

[Gloi]

You know they are one of the few breeds of horse I haven't actually ridden

Yet...

 

[palo1]

I do always wonder when reading these articles WHY our own native ponies are overlooked for this. Seems genuinely daft.

It's pure snobbery - a fancy foreign pony feels more exotic, even though their teeth and grazing habits are identical to our native ponies. It is hugely irritating tbh but driven by a relic of middle class exoticism...

 

[scats]

Action shot of pink Carneddau pony


Lazier version

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I started life on Shetlands, advanced on to Dartmoors and probably DarmoorXs and some sort of cobby types as I grew older until advancing on to the more showy Connies, Arabs, IDs or Welshies and crosses of pretty much all those types. All lovely in their own way and up for almost any job with the correct training and progression. Life went full circle and I became older and more fragile wimpy and back to the cobs and more native types it was, wonderful beasts, totally undervalued and one very handsome native did particularly well at dressage. I would like to say I was the rider but it was a friend of mine who is and was a far better rider and really got some lovely work out of him. Happy days, give my right arm for a nice little native to ride now.

 

[Cloball]

I think it might be you @scats she's a credit to you.
Here are some doing conservation grazing And some more on the mountains they get their name from

 

[Caol Ila]

Well, covering all bases, here's a PRE and a Highland, going for their folk band album cover.

 

[gallopingby]

Interesting comments but l think many are misplaced on this forum which seems to be mainly composed of people interested in non native breeds. If you look at any of the FB pages for the specific M&M breeds or breed society webpages you'll discover they\re very active, there are many opportunities and disciplines that the breeds are performing in. The biggest problem is in locating a suitable pony. Most of the large M&M breeds are on the rare breeds register and there simply aren't enough available to go round.. Expect to pay upwards of around 10k for a well schooled, 13/2 =14.2 pony capable of going out and having a bash at prelim dressage & able to jump 75 c ms.
This is an animal which can be ridden by mum and children from around 10 years upwards.

 

[JFTDWS]

To be honest, I'm absolutely done with knobby comments from people about natives - and I hear them in real life, not on here. No, I don't want to ride your ignorant, over-sized animal - my natives may be small but at least they're well trained and polite.

Native communities are active, and there are lots of people out there doing spectacular things with their ponies. But even in native communities I see a lot of the same old drivel - highlands don't like working in arenas, you can't do x or y - when the reality is many highlands are out doing exactly those things.

That's life though - it's filled with people who think their experience of one can be extrapolated to the many. Natives - like all horses - are individuals. Some like arena work, some prefer hacking (and that's before we consider training / surfaces etc). Some are sensible and safe for kids, and some aren't. They're all very brilliant in their own ways.


(edited because HHO don't like words)

 

[lrw0250]

I'm old now but the competition ponies I used to breed in the 90s/00s were all Welsh or Connie x TB/Arab (no more than 25% non-native). All were graded and went on to turn their hooves to anything from dressage to pony racing.

We have just bought a very pretty 14.2 bay mare of totally unknown breeding but I was really drawn to her because she reminds me of those fab native x TB ponies that were around at the time I was learning to ride as a kid in the 90s. She looks like a scaled down horse but is proving to have the pony temperament and intelligence - she knows every trick in the book!

 

[Cloball]

I have found this forum very supportive of my tiny native pony and our very boring escapades

 

[Tarragon]

We have just bought a very pretty 14.2 bay mare of totally unknown breeding but I was really drawn to her because she reminds me of those fab native x TB ponies that were around at the time I was learning to ride as a kid in the 90s. She looks like a scaled down horse but is proving to have the pony temperament and intelligence - she knows every trick in the book!

My childhood pony in the 1970s was a 14hh Dartmoor/Arab cross. He was lovely! Gorgeous bright bay with Arab features but with pony brain and Dartmoor mane and tail. Such a fun pony to ride.

 

[Squeak]

If someone prefers a WB, then great, crack on with a WB. Ditto any other breed.

There are riders that wouldn't suit a native for numerous reasons but I think there are lot of people that haven't even considered natives as a possibility and for many, they'd suit perfectly.

And *this* is what the thread is about.

For those of us with natives, we already know about the best kept secret but it's only fair to let other's in on it now & then

I wonder if this is the same sort of thing that we're seeing with dogs too. So many of our native breeds are on the vulnerable list while relatively few breeds are hugely popular, yet another lesser known breed might have suited better.

I love seeing the variety in the horse and dog breeds and find it very sad to see the numbers of the rarer breeds declining.