Refusals at water jump advice please!!

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bisou

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Hi :)

I'm hoping to compete my horse in our first speed event competition at the beginning of next month. The showjumping is timed and the XC has a timed section. She is a fab little jumper and I'm confident she'll go clear and fast around the SJ and same around the XC (she has seen all the jumps before). However, the water jump is going to be a nightmare... If I do the lowest class we only have to go in, circle around in it, and come out - no jumping in or out. But she won't even walk in :( I'm a livery at the yard the comp is at so last time I was on the XC, 2 weeks ago, I tried for about 20min but she wouldn't even put more than one foot in, even with me leading her (I know it was really stupid to give up and wish I'd persevered for longer now). We have to pay to use the XC so I can't practice much, and I'm away for a week right before the competition, but I'm going to make her go through puddles and a stream near us every day until then with lots of polos and praise.

I'm familiar with BE rules but just wondering if anyone has any tips as to how to ride it to get as few refusals as possible? She will stop, hesitate and put her head down to sniff it, but I should be able to stop her going backwards, so hoping hesitation wouldn't count as refusal. Then she will try to turn away, which if I let her, would count as a refusal wouldn't it? My best chance getting her in once she's stopped is to circle but I know that would count as a refusal too. So I'm thinking ride her forwards into the water in trot (no chance of her cantering in and she'll just run out), then just keep my hands wide and not let her turn her head or shoulders away from the water, visualise that she isn't going to stop and will just trot in :) but if she does hesitate, get it over as quickly as possible and try to stop her from going backwards.

SO FRUSTRATING when she genuinely has a chance of winning if it wasn't for the water and so disappointing to be eliminated :'(

Thanks for any advice x
 
IMO you need to pay to hire the course before you go away on your hols, take a lead horse, your wellies and a lunge line, and make sure before you leave that your horse is happy walking and trotting in and out both with and without a lead.

If he won't go in under non stressed schooling situation, I can't imagine he will go in at the competition either (as you said you tried for 20 min with no success)....

Good luck

Fiona
 
Definitely following a lead horse the best way
& stay in it for ages circling round patting then in & out again loads of times until it's no hassle
 
No point competing if she won't go in, much better to spend the money on schooling. I assume it has a nice solid bottom on it? And yes lead horse and a lunge line. We actually took the latter around my Mum's mare's bum as we knew she respected it for loading spent lots of time playing and she was fine ever since.
 
Hire the course and take a lead horse that adores water (apparently the impulse buy pony belonging to my mother is one of these and we have no desire to leave the wet splashy fun) so that it should be easier to get yours in.

Also try at a steady canter, treat it like a jump keep kicking and wide hants, by the time horse has slowed you might be in the water ;) also worth trying a little step down as might also work to get her in as she knows what to do with a step and then suddenly in the water. Obviously these may not work (depends how she is stopping etc and her temperament).
 
I think you'll be mad to enter and expect her to get into the water and will make it just a bad experience for her and you.
As the others said, you definitely need to practice this until she is happy, many times. If you tackle it in a calm manner so that its not a big thing she could well get over this aversion but if you meet her head on and make an issue of it you could have problems forever.
 
Agree with others - you are setting yourself up to fail and your horse who isn't confident in water may become worse.

A lead is great or on foot and it can take a very long time but patience, repetition and praise are key - you have the right idea there! :) It's probably something best done with your trainer and you and your horse need to be totally confident before even thinking of doing a competition involving water - especially a speed one.

Watch this for how to do it https://www.horse-events.co.uk/gene...ng-routine-with-paul-tapner.html#.V72gfvkrLIU
 
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Another thing you can try is reversing them in. Obviously not when competing but it can work schooling with some horses
 
Thanks so much for all your replies! I agree that meeting her head on in a high-pressure situation will end in tears and won't help in the long run. Fortunately she doesn't really get stressed at competitions and I don't get very nervous, and I'm lucky that this competition is at home for us, so I'm fairly confident that if I get her to the point she will walk/trot in happily when schooling, she will replicate that in a competition. The water isn't in the timed section so I won't be worried about time at least, just the 3 refusals.

I'm going to hire the XC before I go away (I'm going to Burghley :D ) and take a horse who loves water down with us, tackle it on foot first then walk in with a lead, then without, then try trotting in, and just spend loads of time relaxed, doing circles with loads of praise and polos while in etc. And every day she will be trotting through puddles and a stream we can hack to! If I do enter, I was thinking of wetting her legs before we go out too, as I've heard this might help :) if anyone else has any tips to give us the best chance of going clear into the water I'd really appreciate it!
 
alainax said:
Are there are burns or big puddles at your yard? It doesn't have to be a water jump to practice going in and out of water.
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At the moment, because it's just rained, there are puddles, so I'm making her go through them every day but the ground will dry quickly. There's also a stream, about 2m wide, within 40 min hacking, so going to go there as much as possible (first time she'd ever seen it was yesterday and she went through after about 2-3 minutes of hesitating, looking at it, one foot in then back out, etc). At my last yard we had a ford which I got her to walk through without much hesitation at all after a few months. So I'm pretty optimistic that we'll get it sorted in the long run, it's just I only have a few weeks to prepare for this competition so trying to think of a way to give us the best chance of going clear!
 
Out of interest, how do people go about this in training? I've tried with a lead horse and didn't make any difference. If using a lunge line etc., what do you do, just lunge them closer and closer and eventually they go in?! Mine will go into/out and in the water fine, sticking point is actually jumping/steps down into water.

I wouldn't compete unless I feel like we've cracked it. Next step is wellies, lunge line and xc instructor so I will find out what she has in mind, but interested in hearing from others what we could try.
 
Bernster said:
Out of interest, how do people go about this in training?
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It's all about making the question as simple for the horse to answer as possible. If you look at the vid I posted of my new girl jumping in to water you will notice that the jump in and the ramp are next to each other. Most complexes are like this.
I use the step on to the ramp starting at it's smallest point ( a few inches) taking it closer and closer to the water each time. This allows the horse to get used to jumping down to water without being faced with a big step off or a big expanse of water. Not yet found a horse this hasn't worked for.
 
last one I struggled with (Millie, who eventually towed me into water confidently up to BE Novice) required me to get off and wade into the water in my long boots before she'd contemplate getting her tootsies wet. I was unprepared so it was wet feet all round.

Worked a treat though :o lunging her wouldn't have worked because she'd have just got hysterical about it. Following me in was just like following me anywhere (lorry, strange stables etc) so there was no drama. Suspect Kira would be like this as she hasn't taken a lead from a horse at any stage in her life and just erupts into hysterics the moment you up the ante.
 
milliepops said:
last one I struggled with (Millie, who eventually towed me into water confidently up to BE Novice) required me to get off and wade into the water in my long boots before she'd contemplate getting her tootsies wet. I was unprepared so it was wet feet all round.

Worked a treat though :o lunging her wouldn't have worked because she'd have just got hysterical about it. Following me in was just like following me anywhere (lorry, strange stables etc) so there was no drama. Suspect Kira would be like this as she hasn't taken a lead from a horse at any stage in her life and just erupts into hysterics the moment you up the ante.
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So did you just lead her in and around the water a few times at a schooling day before riding her in and build it up from there? My little one is quite good at following me but last time even that wouldn't work. Although I too was in leather boots that weren't the most waterproof so my reaction probably did nothing to persuade her to come in with me!!
 
Haha! Yes that's exactly what I did. She's usually quite a good egg and mostly does as asked, this was just one of those things. When she got the idea she was fine, though I always sat slightly behind the movement and gave a little encouragement throughout her eventing career ;)
 
PaddyMonty said:
It's all about making the question as simple for the horse to answer as possible. If you look at the vid I posted of my new girl jumping in to water you will notice that the jump in and the ramp are next to each other. Most complexes are like this.
I use the step on to the ramp starting at it's smallest point ( a few inches) taking it closer and closer to the water each time. This allows the horse to get used to jumping down to water without being faced with a big step off or a big expanse of water. Not yet found a horse this hasn't worked for.
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Thanks PM and MillieP. I suspect PM's tactics might have worked last time, as that is what we were in the process of doing, but I think he cottoned on to it late and in the final step before we would have reached the water, he did an almighty leap and I pinged out of the saddle. Into the water, natch'. Will go suitably prepared next attempt!
 
Horses at the lower levels will often hold their breath whilst negotiating water. They do what is asked so the jockey thinks there is no problem; it however becomes an issue as things progress/ the time in the water is extended/ the complexity of the entry or exit increases.

My advice is to walk into a large water complex and SPEND TIME in it! Walk the horse around, let it splash, sit and have a fag or whatever! :) A horse should be able to enter a low level water complex in cold blood - in other words, come off the lorry, walk to the XC course and walk straight into the water. I would then follow as per PaddyMonty above but I would ensure that the horse SPENDS TIME in the water once it has entered, such that it has to breathe! I would do this each and every time.
 
Great, thanks for all your advice! We're practicing at the actual jump tomorrow so the plan is to walk her in on foot with a lead, then ride her in in walk with a lead, then on foot without a lead, then walk in ridden without the lead, etc. With lots of time spent circling around the water/standing in it with plenty treats, carrots and pats!! I got her to walk through big puddles tonight on a hack so I think we might crack it tomorrow :D if not at least I'll know not to enter and aim to compete in spring.
 
Don't worry, you'll yet there. I had a horse who was quite happy going in and out of puddles etc but when we first went cross country schooling we really struggled with water. It used to take about half an hour to get him in, even with helpers on foot, lead horses etc. Once we'd got him in, he would then happily canter in, jump in etc but the next time out we would have the same problem even if it was the same water at the same course.

I was lucky that we were able to take him out twice a week to different courses for schooling and in the end it got easier, to the point where he would go in hesitantly at competitions without incurring penalties (in his case I think the adrenalin of the whole event made it easier to get him in straightaway but that wouldn't have been the case without the practice first). We were only doing low level though, would have needed more work had we needed to do more technical jumps in but I think we would have got there eventually.
 
saddlesore said:
How about entering HC and missing that jump out? Take the stress out of it until you have done more preparation. No point in making it a stressful day for you both.
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That's what I would do .
You can still have some fun and experiance it all but the water.
It's a big mistake to allow a horse to learn that if you stop at water in competition you get away with it once a horse has learnt this they never forget .
I should know I own one .
Water is practise practise practise .
See if you can do a deal with the YOer for price for just walking through the water daily .
 
Practice I'd say. If I ever have any issues XC then I practice like mad at nothing else but until its boring to the horse. Have to say I've only ever had one who was a bit funny about water, I'd just ask him to to go through every single puddle, stream etc. I could find and as the water for the comp is at your yard - I would pay a couple of times and literally not leave until she went in and then went in and out loads of times, even if you spend 2 hours doing it and have a big pocket full of polos or something to give her when she does go in so she relates being in water to a very pleasant affair. As for how to ride it, I would always ask a novice horse for a strong trot entry - walking gives them too much opportunity to just stop and they need good confidence to canter into and through it (one of mine who did a BE90 today still prefers to trot through water).
 
Thanks so much for all of your advice! We practiced and I got her trotting in and out both with a lead and without :) and it's the same jump that would be in the competition. I had entered and was looking forward to it but unfortunately have had to withdraw as I think she's put out her pelvis in the field... typical. Physio coming this week but as the competition is this weekend there is absolutely no chance of us doing it. So I'll just have to aim for spring and get all my practice in over winter!!
 
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