Repairing horse and owner relationship

[Flyingsolo]

I am feeling very disappointed in myself and I need to discuss two of my horses.
The first is a charity rescue pony. I have had to do things to this pony that she doesn't like, i.e. mite treatment, lice treatment, wormer etc. She has had to have these things not only as routine treatments but as additional and necessary treatments as she had a severe lice infestation, had mites, etc. The problem now is she is wary of me and isn't relaxed in my company.

The second pony i have had for a handful of years. I am ashamed to say she can really push my buttons, but I absolutely adore her. She can get hysterical about things and completely shuts down in certain situations and loses it. This presents as screaming for the other ponies, complete unawareness that I am standing right next to her, almost running over the top of me. The last time this happened, she span round so much that she actually slipped over. (She didn't injure herself luckily). I am fully capable of dealing with these episodes but sometimes, I just mentally cant, I lose patience, I get cross with myself for losing patience and then I get angry at myself mostly, but this then gets transferred into the situation I am dealing with at the time with said pony and I then make it worse, I tell her off, etc.

My question is, these episodes just leave me so deflated and disappointed in myself. I would like to have positive relationships with these horses. Is there anything I can do with them both to redeem myself. Relationship building even if we have had 'bad' experiences with each other?

Any advice greatfully received. Thank you

 

[Cortez]

If your 2nd pony is "losing it" and throwing herself around then you absolutely do need to tell her off, why on earth would you feel bad about that?

Your 1st pony will soon learn to put up with routine treatments, it's just something that domesticated animals have to do.

 

[Sossigpoker]

If I ever feel short tempered or angry I don't ride or do much with my horse as I do have a tendency to lose my shit when I'm wound up. Then I'm left feeling like you are. I'd suggest a similar approach.

And when the pony is getting you frustrated, remember that she's just an animal without the capacity to purposefully pish you off.
Someone once said to me about my cob "don't think of how you can control him , think of how you can help him behave in the way that you want ".

 

[Flyingsolo]

If your pony is "losing it" and throwing herself around then you absolutely do need to tell her off, why on earth would you feel bad about that?

I've started learning much more about the horsemanship route, Warwick Schiller to be specific and they are much more about creating connection, teaching the pony to regulate their emotions and helping them with it. And listening to them and finding out the why of the behaviour instead of shutting the ponys response down.

 

[Cortez]

I've started learning much more about the horsemanship route, Warwick Schiller to be specific and they are much more about creating connection, teaching the pony to regulate their emotions and helping them with it. And listening to them and finding out the why of the behaviour instead of shutting the ponys response down.

Well, good luck with that. I prefer mutual respect and horses that understand their place in the world.

 

[Kaylum]

Charity rescue what does that mean? Didn't the charity do all those things first? Like delouse?

 

[Flyingsolo]

Well, good luck with that. I prefer mutual respect and horses that understand their place in the wo

Charity rescue what does that mean? Didn't the charity do all those things first? Like delouse?

 

[Flyingsolo]

Charity rescue what does that mean? Didn't the charity do all those things first? Like delouse?

Supposedly yes. I had her for six months on my own personal closed yard with my four other personal horses who have never in their life had louse and after the winter as the weather warmed up, she turned out to have the biggest infestation id ever seen. Luckily, I hadn't fielded her with any of mine due to various factors yet, so no of them caught them but I deloused the lot of them just to be sure. It was a nightmare and a I was quite shocked to be honest.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

To answer your original question be consistently firm but fair. Make your reactions predictable, so that the pony knows what to expect from you and understands your boundaries. Don't have pushable buttons

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

So she is only ever turned out alone. Might be wise to give her some company at the very first place to start.

I have had horses and donkeys that have needed some pretty unpleasant treatment, it is essential they have some basic manners to enable safe handling and treatment. They quickly get over themselves as they recover and learn that they can trust you and you are helping them.

The one that you find yourself losing your temper with just sell on. You are not helping the horse or yourself. Lack of temper control has no place around nervous and bolshey horses, well any horse actually. It is no shame to admit that you just don't gel with a horse and find a more suitable home for her.

 

[Kaylum]

Supposedly yes. I had her for six months on my own personal closed yard with my four other personal horses who have never in their life had louse and after the winter as the weather warmed up, she turned out to have the biggest infestation id ever seen. Luckily, I hadn't fielded her with any of mine due to various factors yet, so no of them caught them but I deloused the lot of them just to be sure. It was a nightmare and a I was quite shocked to be honest.

Oh dear not good x

 

[smolmaus]

I like a lot of what Warwick says. Learning to listen and not just react is difficult. I get what Cortez means, if it means keeping yourself and pony safe then reaction is necessary and its not always going to be nice but losing your temper isn't helpful for anybody. It will do no harm at all to focus on what pony is telling you BEFORE an episode occurs so you can pinpoint their threshold and help everyone stay calm.

I do a good bit of liberty polework/ physio exercises with my pony using positive reinforcement. She needs it for her stifles but its also just a nice, positive activity for both of us to make it fun and games and not drudgery. R+ doesn't work for every person or every horse but it might be worth a shot. My pony is a rescue too and had to learn to put up with a lot of lotions and potions for her sweet itch. Making it worth her while for the sake of half a fibre nugget made everything a lot easier! Rewarding the good rather than punishing the bad is so much better for my brain as well. I can also lose my temper and disappoint myself when I'm stressed or scared but its happening a lot less than it used to.

 

[irishdraft]

I think you feel upset because you are emotionally invested but unfortunately the pony probably isn't. As owners it's natural we want to have a good relationship with our animals but actually they are more interested in their horsy mates than us. You probably need to step back and just insist firmly that both ponies get on with whatever your doing with them.

 

[Flyingsolo]

I think you feel upset because you are emotionally invested but unfortunately the pony probably isn't. As owners it's natural we want to have a good relationship with our animals but actually they are more interested in their horsy mates than us. You probably need to step back and just insist firmly that both ponies get on with whatever your doing with them.

Definitely this emotional attachment is something I find hard to deal with in myself for sure.

 

[stangs]

For the first horse, the more time you spend with her doing things that aren’t aversive, the more comfortable she will become around you. There’s no way to hurry that up, but scratches in her favourite spots might help (if she likes them and only as long as you’re not preventing her from moving away).

Second horse - boundaries are also part of a relationship. Get yourself a good groundwork trainer who will teach you how to teach her that she can’t come into your space when she’s in that mental state. Work on desensitising her to her triggers one by one. The problem here isn’t the relationship or lack of one; it’s that she’s stressed out of her mind.

As for losing your temper, have a look around and see what methods you can find to help with anger management (deep breaths, counting, etc). Another thing that helps me when I find myself getting frustrated because horse’s stress is making him a nightmare to work with is the quote

Whenever you’re having a bad day training, remember that your horse is always having a worse one

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Love that quote stangs.

 

[scats]

The first horse will get over it. Spend lots of time just doing nice things- grooming (if she likes it), scratches… or even just sit in her company a few times a week and have a coffee.

The second- you need her to know that it’s not ok to barge into you. I have an odd mare who has strange meltdowns at nothing in particular, but she is very polite and would never mow me down or barge. I’ve accepted Polly’s quirks but we have a mutual respect. I take her for who she is and try my best not to get wound up about her. If I feel myself getting frustrated (I’m only human and she is, frankly, weird) I just walk away for a bit. Equally she knows that she is never to get in my space or make contact with me and she must remain polite to handle, even when she is stressed.
I’ve given up trying to psychoanalyse her and desensitise her. One day she won’t be bothered by a tractor on the yard, the next day she will have a 4-hour box walk frenzy because someone walked past the barn and sneezed.

I remember someone telling me once, when a horse did something that annoyed me “don’t take it personally”.

 

[LEC]

My Shetland didn’t ‘speak’ to me for a day after we got her flu vaccinated which she pathologically loathes. Did I care? No. Just carried on as normal. Horses don’t have feelings or emotions it’s just a reaction to something they didn’t like.
As for the Warwick Schiller thing, the whole connection thing is fine if the horse isn’t trying to kill you at the time. He would soon get his flag out of his pocket and be grabbing its attention. Maybe watch Steve Young on YouTube instead as explains it all a lot better without joining any clubs, paying any groups or not getting all the info.

 

[Carrottom]

Re the horsemanship route - you might find find someone like Steve Young is more helpful for your 2nd pony.

 

[SantaVera]

With the first pony I would work on spending time with her just being with her, not actually doing anything,then she'll get to realise she isn't going to have things done at her every time she sees you. Lots of scratches and sooth talking,try little walks inhand even if it's only around the yard. Start with 10 mins a day and very gradually work up to half an hour, over several weeks. Obviously pick out hooves, give wormers and so on too as necessary, but always spend at least 10 mins a day " quality" time together.

 

[ycbm]

Supposedly yes. I had her for six months on my own personal closed yard with my four other personal horses who have never in their life had louse and after the winter as the weather warmed up, she turned out to have the biggest infestation id ever seen. Luckily, I hadn't fielded her with any of mine due to various factors yet, so no of them caught them but I deloused the lot of them just to be sure. It was a nightmare and a I was quite shocked to be honest.

Did you keep her on her own for that 6 months? If so, that m might account for some of her behaviour, some horses don't do well in that management.
.

 

[blitznbobs]

It is not kind to horses to treat them like your children. Horses need clear communication that involves rules, expectations and signals when they are right and signals that they are wrong. Anything else is confusing for them. You need to go back to basics and I would start by teaching horse forward and backwards using either a bridle or rope halter. I use a voice command for this and back it up with a short tug on the halter. I always reward a try in the first instance but if you havent succeeded ip until now I suggest you get some help to teach you the basics. Horses are big (evena shetland) and unless they understand the ground rules dangerous. I do not understand this reluctance to tell animals off. I have been known to tell my kids off but ive never battered them round the head… telling animals off is not abuse its telling them what your boundaries are… they can display their natural behaviour in the field with their mates (who will double barrel or bite them if they dont like it) - in my company they can do the same but within my boundaries.

 

[J&S]

The rescue pony needed to be treated for welfare reasons, just the same as having vet or dental treatment or the farrier. Pony must learn to cope. At other times just "be there" and let the pony come to you. Scratch/reward. Leave.

The other pony would to my mind be best left to its own devices in a safe stable while hysterical! Walk away, wait for normality to return. Scratch/reward. Do some basic ground work, scratch/reward. Leave.

In other words, take the pressure off both yourself and the ponies.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Well, good luck with that. I prefer mutual respect and horses that understand their place in the world.

Mutual respect sounded like what OP was describing - creating connection and listening to the horse.

A lot of people want their horses to respect them, but show no respect back to their horse. E.g. we want our personal space and do not want ours horses up in our face (perfectly valid) but we also feel entitled to be in our horse's bubble and touch them all over at any given time, even if they're telling us no? A lot of people also think that their horses 'respect' them as a result of using dominance/fear based techniques, but submission and learned helplessness are not synonymous with respect.

'Respect' is a human based concept that horses do not understand, we can still set clear and healthy boundaries which also genuinely listen to the feelings of our horses. It doesn't have to be either or.

 

[Cortez]

Horses most certainly do understand respect, you only have to watch a mare establishing it with her foal to see that. If people are going to interact with horses in any way there has to be a definite hierarchy in which the smaller, slower, weaker, bill-paying partner is in charge. The horse is not entitled to say no to reasonable and clearly communicated requests, that's just the way it works and an experienced horseman will be able to make that happen without unkindness.

 

[Jambarissa]

Aiming to answer op question

With your new one it'll just take time, patience and consistency. She needs to learn that you are firm but fair. We had a colt who very definitely blamed us when he was gelded. Took a long time to regain the trust but did so by having an aim for every interaction, using natural horsemanship type techniques to show that we are consistent and will stop doing the thing (applying pressure on the halter, waving the flag, etc) when he does what we are asking. He's never been the loving type but pays attention, looks to us as leaders and appears to feel secure in our presence.

Your other one, I absolutely understand. It is infuriating when they are being prattish and if it starts to become unsafe it's easy to get angry. You say you can deal with the behaviour so I won't go there but I'd suggest that horses doesn't see you as the leader in every context. More firm but fair groundwork, doing challenging things, taking as long as it takes to do things properly rather than get them done.

Hope it goes well for you.

 

[Glitter's fun]

I am feeling very disappointed in myself and I need to discuss two of my horses.
The first is a charity rescue pony. I have had to do things to this pony that she doesn't like, i.e. mite treatment, lice treatment, wormer etc. She has had to have these things not only as routine treatments but as additional and necessary treatments as she had a severe lice infestation, had mites, etc. The problem now is she is wary of me and isn't relaxed in my company.

The second pony i have had for a handful of years. I am ashamed to say she can really push my buttons, but I absolutely adore her. She can get hysterical about things and completely shuts down in certain situations and loses it. This presents as screaming for the other ponies, complete unawareness that I am standing right next to her, almost running over the top of me. The last time this happened, she span round so much that she actually slipped over. (She didn't injure herself luckily). I am fully capable of dealing with these episodes but sometimes, I just mentally cant, I lose patience, I get cross with myself for losing patience and then I get angry at myself mostly, but this then gets transferred into the situation I am dealing with at the time with said pony and I then make it worse, I tell her off, etc.

My question is, these episodes just leave me so deflated and disappointed in myself. I would like to have positive relationships with these horses. Is there anything I can do with them both to redeem myself. Relationship building even if we have had 'bad' experiences with each other?

Any advice greatfully received. Thank you

Rescue handle as much as possible. If she has 10 nice experiences to each bad one, she won't remember the bad one. Food & patience - she'll come round in a long or short time - don't stress about how long it takes.

2nd pony.
Can you identify why she makes you angry? (Do you deserve different after all you've done for her? Maybe you are identifying her with certain human characteristics - is she 'a toddler' , 'a drama queen', etc ?).
Keep at the front of your mind that she's a different species. She's a herd prey animal. If she gets a burst of adrenaline she has a powerful need to be running away with her mates. Not listening to you because she's 'naughty' or 'silly' doesn't come into it -she probably genuinely can't hear you for the sound of the blood pounding in her ears.

Can you think of ways of diffusing her stress before it gets to that stage? You don't have to win/prove yourself. Its ok to avoid the situations that cause conflict, if possible, until you are both calmer. Do everything you can to change things so you don't get stuck, both of you waiting for the row at a certain gate. Can you break down the things that stress her & train them in smaller sections?
Not saying you should let her win but you need calm authority. If you get to "No Horse Of Mine Is Going To...." you've already lost - go get a cup of tea!

 

[ycbm]

A lot of people want their horses to respect them, but show no respect back to their horse. E.g. we want our personal space and do not want ours horses up in our face (perfectly valid) but we also feel entitled to be in our horse's bubble and touch them all over at any given time, even if they're telling us no?

If you don't teach a horse to accept this, then you may not be able to treat the horse without sedation (and sometimes not even then) when it has even a minor injury. That isn't an acceptable situation, for me.
.

 

[Tarragon]

It is not kind to horses to treat them like your children.

Looking back, I think I treated my children like my ponies!

 

[honetpot]

I have had some difficult mares, and they get what I would call hysterical, to the point they can not see anything or anyone, they get themsleves so lathered up they are never going to listen to you. They will walk over you, go through fences, what ever it takes, to avoid something or get to something. When I was young I would work through, yes you will do that extra mile, you will behave and had the fight, and really its so not worth it. I find they have a very short memory, and if you can get a small win, not the big win, and leave it and then come back to it about a couple of hours later, you can approach it another way, you have to do all thinking because they do all the feeling.
Instead of feeling angry which feeds in to the preditor syndrom, try thinking of avoidence and solutions. Do you really have to do things that cause a battle every day, are some things that important, and if is important get them pinned in a corner with help and get it over as quickly as possible. I have had just about feral ponies who are handled but not a lot, so it starts out like the wall of death, but they know when the game is lost
We used to have a pony that didn't load, Newmarket transporters at a show tried lifting him the trailer, when he finally realised he would get winched in with lunge lines, you just had to clip the lunge line on the trailer, and he would walk straight in.
My second favorite mare had a tough life a TB foster brood mare, and produced graded foals, she was as mad as a hatter at times and would tremble with fear, I think it was nearly four years before I could put a hand on her shoulder in the field, and take her way from the other mares without her panicking. For her there was no quick fix, and I think before you can think about solutions, you are to think about triggers, don't get angry, get smart and if you are frustrated walk away until you are not